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On February 05 2012 04:00 StartingCrafty wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 03:29 Shockk wrote:
You can't be serious with your comparison to WC2. That you're resorting to that as an argument in this discussion shows how futile your point is. Let me repeat it again for you: We're not asking for wonders, or unheard-of levels of support. We're asking for things that have worked well before, and were removed for financial reasons, and because the developer in question was the wrong guy for the job.
Fine that you're content with getting less bang for your buck. We're not. Getting any of these features implemented will eventually benefit all players, even yourself. Please understand this. And it costs you nothing at all. So why argue against it, or waste time pointng out minor flaws in other people's posts? If you're trying to convince Blizzard of your points by saying you represent the contingent of players who think they're doing worse than anything they've done since Warcraft 1 and that the state of battle.net now is comparable to how it was in the 90s, I don't think you're going to reach them very effectively. Telling them that they're doing everything wrong is inaccurate, Starcraft 2 arrived with some good changes and some bad ones. Posting images claiming battle.net is worse in every way compared to what it used to be isn't likely to gain you any leverage. Starcraft 2 has already sold more than Warcraft 3 combined with its expansion, they don't want to take a step back. You need to convince them they can take a step forward and have a battle.net that's accessible to new players and draws a large fanbase while keeping the pro players happy.
Well, what do you suggest? Should we praise and laud them for delivering a UI that's lacking essential industry standards, and is arguably inferior in several regards to products we already had 9 and 13 years ago? We're just commenting (again) on what has been said since the Beta, and what's been proven true: SC2 is a product not up to par with Blizzards previous quality standards. If you want proof or facts that will actually reach Blizzard, just take a look at the concurrent user numbers since release, and how well this game fares compared to WC3. Or compare Warcraft's custom scene to that of SC2.
I'd genuinely like to hear your idea as to how convince Blizzard to deal with the issue as a whole. While you've written line after line criticizing us for our feedback and comments, you've yet to post feasible ideas of your own. Please, enlighten us.
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Perhaps we should organize a Bnet Blackout where nobody plays for a day just to see if it gets Blizzard's attention? I think with the level of support we have we could definitely put a dent in the number of people playing if everyone committed.
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It's not that Blizzard doesn't know our concerns. People have directly called them on this stuff multiple times. Hell, there's an interview on this very site between Kennigit and Browder where Kennigit directly asks "why don't we have LAN?" And it's not like the designers don't know what's wrong. Every single response we ever get is just stammering PR laden drivel, they have none of their own answers. I guarantee you that any designer who worked on Bnet 2.0 HATES the product they shoved out.
It's the suits up top that are the problem. Do you really think Activision (the company that releases the same game every year) really cares about evolving their product? Between Blizzard's copyright trantrum and Activision's shit throwing business model there's just no room to actually improve something.
And what would a blackout day prove? That we can go somewhere else for a day? Ok...but where would we go for our esport? Hell, where would we go for our competitive RTS? In shoving their half ass product through battle.net they've made sure they have us by the balls. They don't have to listen, they don't have to improve. They just need to keep having their PR team write thinly veiled excuses to keep skimming money off of us.
In case you haven't noticed...I'm REALLY bitter that such an amazing thing was so half assed in its second iteration.
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It's not about hurting Blizzard with a blackout. It's about showing them that a LOT of people actually want this and a LOT of people are probably going to taper off in activity if it isn't added sooner or later.
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Blizzard wants starcraft 2 to be the most perfect and the most generic rts so they made the Bnet UI less gamy and more like a service, you dont socialize in services.
I agree with everything here whats most bad is the custom game stuff thats pretty terrible. I guess with hots we will get new art design, btw shoudnt we be complaining aboute the music that plays at the start, I guess hots will fix that.
The UI shall not be changed-so thinks blizzard.
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And its almost like blizzard doesn't even give a fuck, look at how much people will bitch about anything important blizzard should do, and it still will be ignored. thanks blizzard for making me feel like the computer games and cd keys i purchased from your company over the years isn't worth shit...
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On February 05 2012 05:43 Shiori wrote:
It's not about hurting Blizzard with a blackout. It's about showing them that a LOT of people actually want this and a LOT of people are probably going to taper off in activity if it isn't added sooner or later.
Every single game played goes through their system. If there's a decline in activity they can see it. So far their response has been to keep shortening the seasons because placement matches bring people back. It's a hilariously unsustainable response but they don't need anything more than a short term fix. They're banking on HOTS bringing everyone back. We'll see if it does.
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On February 05 2012 04:54 Shockk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 04:00 StartingCrafty wrote:On February 05 2012 03:29 Shockk wrote:
You can't be serious with your comparison to WC2. That you're resorting to that as an argument in this discussion shows how futile your point is. Let me repeat it again for you: We're not asking for wonders, or unheard-of levels of support. We're asking for things that have worked well before, and were removed for financial reasons, and because the developer in question was the wrong guy for the job.
Fine that you're content with getting less bang for your buck. We're not. Getting any of these features implemented will eventually benefit all players, even yourself. Please understand this. And it costs you nothing at all. So why argue against it, or waste time pointng out minor flaws in other people's posts? If you're trying to convince Blizzard of your points by saying you represent the contingent of players who think they're doing worse than anything they've done since Warcraft 1 and that the state of battle.net now is comparable to how it was in the 90s, I don't think you're going to reach them very effectively. Telling them that they're doing everything wrong is inaccurate, Starcraft 2 arrived with some good changes and some bad ones. Posting images claiming battle.net is worse in every way compared to what it used to be isn't likely to gain you any leverage. Starcraft 2 has already sold more than Warcraft 3 combined with its expansion, they don't want to take a step back. You need to convince them they can take a step forward and have a battle.net that's accessible to new players and draws a large fanbase while keeping the pro players happy. Well, what do you suggest? Should we praise and laud them for delivering a UI that's lacking essential industry standards, and is arguably inferior in several regards to products we already had 9 and 13 years ago? We're just commenting (again) on what has been said since the Beta, and what's been proven true: SC2 is a product not up to par with Blizzards previous quality standards. If you want proof or facts that will actually reach Blizzard, just take a look at the concurrent user numbers since release, and how well this game fares compared to WC3. Or compare Warcraft's custom scene to that of SC2. I'd genuinely like to hear your idea as to how convince Blizzard to deal with the issue as a whole. While you've written line after line criticizing us for our feedback and comments, you've yet to post feasible ideas of your own. Please, enlighten us.
well said, sir
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On February 05 2012 05:48 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 05:43 Shiori wrote:
It's not about hurting Blizzard with a blackout. It's about showing them that a LOT of people actually want this and a LOT of people are probably going to taper off in activity if it isn't added sooner or later. Every single game played goes through their system. If there's a decline in activity they can see it. So far their response has been to keep shortening the seasons because placement matches bring people back.
Yeah, but I think if we organized it and made it known that it was being organized, Blizzard could see that it's not just a couple of people on the Bnet forums or on reddit that want this. It's basically the entire Sc2 community.
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On February 05 2012 05:50 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 05:48 Klondikebar wrote:On February 05 2012 05:43 Shiori wrote:
It's not about hurting Blizzard with a blackout. It's about showing them that a LOT of people actually want this and a LOT of people are probably going to taper off in activity if it isn't added sooner or later. Every single game played goes through their system. If there's a decline in activity they can see it. So far their response has been to keep shortening the seasons because placement matches bring people back. Yeah, but I think if we organized it and made it known that it was being organized, Blizzard could see that it's not just a couple of people on the Bnet forums or on reddit that want this. It's basically the entire Sc2 community.
I suppose. I'm not going to poo poo real effort to create change. If there's a blackout day, I'd participate. Although I only get on Bnet maybe once a week now so I doubt my participation would actually drop their numbers anymore haha.
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Hey, I'm just spitballing man. We'd need to get some actual SC2 personalities (Incontrol, SotG?) to weigh in on this to see how viable it'd really be.
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On February 05 2012 05:58 Shiori wrote:
Hey, I'm just spitballing man. We'd need to get some actual SC2 personalities (Incontrol, SotG?) to weigh in on this to see how viable it'd really be.
I agree. The more it's discussed the higher the chance that things will be implemented!
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On February 05 2012 05:58 Shiori wrote:
Hey, I'm just spitballing man. We'd need to get some actual SC2 personalities (Incontrol, SotG?) to weigh in on this to see how viable it'd really be.
I messaged Day9 here on TL, and responded to Husky's War3 UI video with a message on Youtube. They'll probably not read it, though, being busy and all that. Still, shoutouts by community figureheads would be great, if they can afford to be critical of Blizzard. Maybe some have read the thread here on TL or over on Reddit, but it certainly doesn't hurt if people write (reasonable!) request to the player/commentator/event manager of their choice.
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It's pretty frustrating that anyone who's played WC3 or BW can see how obvious some of these features are, and how strongly they would enhance the experience on Bnet, and yet Blizzard seems to just not give a fuck. We understand that they don't have a lot of time, but these things are really essential, and they need to figure out a solution. I swear I won't buy HotS if they haven't addressed some of these issues. Throw us a bone here, Blizz.
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I think we need some serious improvement in that deparment, we haven't seen much change.
So Blizz get working!
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blizzard you better start working on this!
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The problem is the UI developer probably never played any Blizzard game online.
I really hope they hire somebody more competent and redo the UI from scratch. It's terrible. 
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Hey guys, I'm the author of the ui concepts linked around here and I endorse this message. Also, this whole resurgence makes me want to start reworking my ideas and photoshopping a new design doc. UIs from several games, especially Dota 2, seem to have gotten these concepts right and I'll be using them/fellow nerd baller's input as inspiration as I put it together.
A couple minor ideas that occurred to me:
- Auto-login option, requires a 'logout' menu option
- Rclick to join lobby of friend (ala steam)
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On February 05 2012 12:50 Goblinoid wrote:
Hey guys, I'm the author of the ui concepts linked around here and I endorse this message. Also, this whole resurgence makes me want to start reworking my ideas and photoshopping a new design doc. UIs from several games, especially Dota 2, seem to have gotten these concepts right and I'll be using them/fellow nerd baller's input as inspiration as I put it together.
A couple minor ideas that occurred to me:
- Auto-login option, requires a 'logout' menu option
- Rclick to join lobby of friend (ala steam)
The pics that I have seen are amazing. Great work!!
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EPT
