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Stephano forfeits ONOG Finals - Page 48

Forum Index > SC2 General
1731 CommentsPost a Reply
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Demicore
Profile Joined October 2011
France503 Posts
January 31 2012 04:14 GMT
#941
Great decision by the admins, shameful behavior from the player. Should have injected himself with a near lethal dose of caffeine like a mang and played til the end like Kas did.
"I love male nipples in starcraft; the two go together so well." ~Tasteless
plogamer
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada3132 Posts
January 31 2012 04:15 GMT
#942
On January 31 2012 11:59 Jibba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2012 11:19 plogamer wrote:
Drama aside, this issue highlights the question of players and tournaments accommodating each other. I say both sides are wrong. There clearly was a lack of communication of the boundaries and responsibilities between the parties involved.

Asking a professional to perform at 2 am of his time is unreasonable. However, said player should also communicate his timeline/schedule and let the tournament know ahead of time.

Show nested quote +
Earlier in the day Stephano played in and won the SCAN Invitational (beating Grubby in the finals) and as a result requested that ONOG delay his match so he could participate.


He knows how long SC2 matches go, if it's beginning to breach when he thought he could play then he should've said that from the beginning. Asking a tournament to delay and then pulling out afterwards is completely unacceptable, imo. I don't agree with forfeiting in a finals no matter what, but to do it after making a request of a tournament is even worse.

And the sports analogies seem moot, because ESPORTS is simply not near the level of professionalism of normal sports, but it's past a point of amateurism where people actually play for the enjoyment of the game/competition. I'd just like to point out that last night in DotA 2, an Australian team played a tournament all night long and lost in the grand finals at 8:30 AM their time. The first place prize was a headset, mouse, mouse pad and last generation video card. :| They obviously didn't need to, but I respect them more for it, just like we respect athletes more for playing through injuries and sickness.

Outside of a few select players, tournament organizers really have most of the leverage here and I think they did the right thing, and I probably wouldn't invite him to a future event. This drama really is a mess, and Stephano isn't a draw like IdrA or some Koreans. If the prize money continues to be good, they'll still get a ton of good players.


I completely agree that Stephano did not handle it correctly.

However, analogy to sports should not be moot. It's not about the matter of professionalism, in my opinion, but rather simple utilitarianism. Tournaments have a reasonable responsibility to accommodate the players for one simple reason: it gives better games for the audience. Stephano playing half-awake would be a poor show.

As for the tournament delaying Stephano's match, it was "earlier in the day". Stephano did not delay his match to 2 am (CET, I assume) and then forfeit, from what it looks like. I could be wrong but but the tournament delaying Stephano's match did not cost the tournament much. Apparently, there were plenty of games that were not streamed and could have made up for the content. Whereas Stephano playing at 2am would have cost him the game. This kind of uneven characterization leads me to doubt the narrative provided by the tournament.

As a side note: a lot of the criticism seems to be about the level of professionalism displayed by Stephano, which I agree with. But the burden goes both ways, we also have to look at the professionalism of a tournament that did not account for the fact that games can get drawn out, and slot enough time without putting too much burden on players. Why not spread the tournament over 2 days if it was getting this drawn out? I am curious to know how long the tournament took in total. Knowing that Stephano will be playing from France (I think), everyone should have taken precautions about the time frame. None of this, however, changes the fact that Stephano needs to learn to prevent this type of a situation. I am also critical of his team for not managing his affairs better.

Perhaps looking at the silver lining, but incidents like this will hammer out eSports that is still relatively new and growing. As a sport that can be played online, we will have international players who will be playing from various time zones. How we do work around that? I think it's better to work on a positive solution than to penalize and alienate international talent for not handling situations that is also new for them. It is my opinion that more talent will bring in more viewers and further grow eSports.

TLDR: Rather than point fingers, we need to look at circumventing issues related to timezones and match times; given that eSports (SC2 especially) is an international phenomenon. If not, this will negatively impact the cohesion of international talent from various countries. The internet and its ability to connect players from across the globe easily is one of the advantages of eSports over traditional sports, and it will be a shame to squander it because we could not schedule things properly.
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
January 31 2012 04:19 GMT
#943
On January 31 2012 13:15 plogamer wrote:

I completely agree that Stephano did not handle it correctly.

However, analogy to sports should not be moot. It's not about the matter of professionalism, in my opinion, but rather simple utilitarianism. Tournaments have a reasonable responsibility to accommodate the players for one simple reason: it gives better games for the audience. Stephano playing half-awake would be a poor show.

As for the tournament delaying Stephano's match, it was "earlier in the day". Stephano did not delay his match to 2 am (CET, I assume) and then forfeit, from what it looks like. I could be wrong but but the tournament delaying Stephano's match did not cost the tournament much. Apparently, there were plenty of games that were not streamed and could have made up for the content. Whereas Stephano playing at 2am would have cost him the game. This kind of uneven characterization leads me to doubt the narrative provided by the tournament.

As a side note: a lot of the criticism seems to be about the level of professionalism displayed by Stephano, which I agree with. But the burden goes both ways, we also have to look at the professionalism of a tournament that did not account for the fact that games can get drawn out, and slot enough time without putting too much burden on players. Why not spread the tournament over 2 days if it was getting this drawn out? I am curious to know how long the tournament took in total. Knowing that Stephano will be playing from France (I think), everyone should have taken precautions about the time frame. None of this, however, changes the fact that Stephano needs to learn to prevent this type of a situation. I am also critical of his team for not managing his affairs better.

Perhaps looking at the silver lining, but incidents like this will hammer out eSports that is still relatively new and growing. As a sport that can be played online, we will have international players who will be playing from various time zones. How we do work around that? I think it's better to work on a positive solution than to penalize and alienate international talent for not handling situations that is also new for them. It is my opinion that more talent will bring in more viewers and further grow eSports.

TLDR: Rather than point fingers, we need to look at circumventing issues related to timezones and match times; given that eSports (SC2 especially) is an international phenomenon. If not, this will negatively impact the cohesion of international talent from various countries. The internet and its ability to connect players from across the globe easily is one of the advantages of eSports over traditional sports, and it will be a shame to squander it because we could not schedule things properly.


I avoid threads like these nowadays because there is no point in posting and because there are just way too many idiots spouting nonsense, but your post gives me hope for the internet. I might not agree with everything you said but at least it is well argued, calm, and intelligent. I definitely agree that eSports needs to grow and learn from incidents like these and finger pointing will just make everyone needlessly angry. Just find a solution instead, right?
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
Wolvmatt.
Profile Joined April 2011
205 Posts
January 31 2012 04:20 GMT
#944
"the racist coments against french people is not necessary."


Necessary? No. Funny? Yes. I mean, come on, there is nothing more stereotypically french than forfeiting. Surrender may be more inherent to french culture than even the french language itself.

User was warned for this post
Demidyne
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States110 Posts
January 31 2012 04:22 GMT
#945
I actually think we need a body that protects gamers instead of continually putting them in situations where they have to choose between their health and competition. The tournament did not go as scheduled, that is on them.
He saw how civilized men behave, he never forgot and he never forgave.
Azurues
Profile Joined March 2011
Malaysia5612 Posts
January 31 2012 04:24 GMT
#946
u can say all u want about Stephano, but he definitely have reason for his forfeit.
Kloudi
Profile Joined December 2011
Sweden21 Posts
January 31 2012 04:25 GMT
#947
On January 31 2012 13:20 Wolvmatt. wrote:
"the racist coments against french people is not necessary."


Necessary? No. Funny? Yes. I mean, come on, there is nothing more stereotypically french than forfeiting. Surrender may be more inherent to french culture than even the french language itself.


i have a bad news for you
BM_Rawbertson
Profile Joined November 2011
43 Posts
January 31 2012 04:25 GMT
#948
Seems legit, Stephano doesn't seem to care that he got moved to 4th, so I don't see what there is to be mad about from a fan perspective. There is so much stephano content out there, him not winning some minor tournament isnt really a big deal at all.
onedayclose
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1145 Posts
January 31 2012 04:26 GMT
#949
Personally I don't think ONOG thought it through when they decided to delay the match FOR STEPHANO! At that time they should have considered HOW MUCH it would have delayed the entire tournament!!! When Stephano originally agreed to play his match if ONOG delayed it I'm pretty sure he did not envision playing a match at 2:30am. I think this incident should be souly blamed on ONOG until we can get the FULL DETAIL of what was agreed upon between ONOG and Stephano both pre-tournament and in-tournament and what actually ended up happening. This article is still much too vague.

As for the argument where a player should not be participating in simultaneous/conflicting tournaments. I feel it is souly the players responsibility to know if he can indeed participate in both events in a timely and fair fashion. He should also inform the the tournament he is entering if there could be potential conflicts. In this case it is neither the team nor the tournaments resposibility, only the player.
FallDownMarigold
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3710 Posts
January 31 2012 04:27 GMT
#950
Hopefully he realizes it's not actually racist to make those "France surrenders all the time" jokes... Are the French a special race? No
DoX.)
Profile Joined December 2008
Singapore6164 Posts
January 31 2012 04:32 GMT
#951
stephano staring at some girls chest? what?
Prplppleatr
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1518 Posts
January 31 2012 04:42 GMT
#952
Please do not invite stephano again.
🥇 Prediction Contest - Mess with the best, die like the rest.
RunnerMeep
Profile Joined May 2011
United States79 Posts
January 31 2012 04:43 GMT
#953
Just saying, pretty much a douche move from Stephano, the tournament waits for him to start then he backs out cause it goes too late
SJSU!
RedBack
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia102 Posts
January 31 2012 04:57 GMT
#954
On January 31 2012 13:27 FallDownMarigold wrote:
Hopefully he realizes it's not actually racist to make those "France surrenders all the time" jokes... Are the French a special race? No


Yeah the French arent a race they're an ethnicity, although the way they act you wouldnt know it... i turned up to paris only speaking english.... lucky they didnt actually have pitch forks....
SafeAsCheese
Profile Joined June 2011
United States4924 Posts
January 31 2012 05:05 GMT
#955
On January 31 2012 13:57 RedBack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2012 13:27 FallDownMarigold wrote:
Hopefully he realizes it's not actually racist to make those "France surrenders all the time" jokes... Are the French a special race? No


Yeah the French arent a race they're an ethnicity, although the way they act you wouldnt know it... i turned up to paris only speaking english.... lucky they didnt actually have pitch forks....


Saying French surrender a lot is no more offensive than saying Americans are fat, and TL mods let that happen alllllll the time
vrok
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden2541 Posts
January 31 2012 05:09 GMT
#956
They really should've just disqualified him completely.
"Starcraft 2 very easy game" - White-Ra
momonami5
Profile Joined July 2011
United States109 Posts
January 31 2012 05:10 GMT
#957
hey coach I know this the finals of the nba but i'm to tired to play a 3rd over time. another player making sc2 look like a kids game.
Fishriot
Profile Joined May 2010
United States621 Posts
January 31 2012 05:13 GMT
#958
On January 31 2012 13:20 Wolvmatt. wrote:
"the racist coments against french people is not necessary."


Necessary? No. Funny? Yes. I mean, come on, there is nothing more stereotypically french than forfeiting. Surrender may be more inherent to french culture than even the french language itself.


As a skinny American, this made me chuckle.
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13426 Posts
January 31 2012 05:16 GMT
#959
On January 31 2012 11:59 Jibba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2012 11:19 plogamer wrote:
Drama aside, this issue highlights the question of players and tournaments accommodating each other. I say both sides are wrong. There clearly was a lack of communication of the boundaries and responsibilities between the parties involved.

Asking a professional to perform at 2 am of his time is unreasonable. However, said player should also communicate his timeline/schedule and let the tournament know ahead of time.

Show nested quote +
Earlier in the day Stephano played in and won the SCAN Invitational (beating Grubby in the finals) and as a result requested that ONOG delay his match so he could participate.


He knows how long SC2 matches go, if it's beginning to breach when he thought he could play then he should've said that from the beginning. Asking a tournament to delay and then pulling out afterwards is completely unacceptable, imo. I don't agree with forfeiting in a finals no matter what, but to do it after making a request of a tournament is even worse.

And the sports analogies seem moot, because ESPORTS is simply not near the level of professionalism of normal sports, but it's past a point of amateurism where people actually play for the enjoyment of the game/competition. I'd just like to point out that last night in DotA 2, an Australian team played a tournament all night long and lost in the grand finals at 8:30 AM their time. The first place prize was a headset, mouse, mouse pad and last generation video card. :| They obviously didn't need to, but I respect them more for it, just like we respect athletes more for playing through injuries and sickness.

Outside of a few select players, tournament organizers really have most of the leverage here and I think they did the right thing, and I probably wouldn't invite him to a future event. This drama really is a mess, and Stephano isn't a draw like IdrA or some Koreans. If the prize money continues to be good, they'll still get a ton of good players.


Agreed, if anything this kind of action from stephano makes him less likely to be invited for a number of reasons. Not only was this unprofessional, but it shows he remains unpredictable in his decision making, but this kind of action hurts his popularity and this makes his ability to draw viewers less than it was before.

As a tournament organizer I wouldn't want to take a chance on the wildcard that stephano seems to be and there are other players who not only will play through their games and obligations but also draw fans. Losing fans means stephano loses his bargaining power in terms of his ability to draw viewers.

He isn't a Heel in the same way that Idra is people won't tune in to watch him lose.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-31 05:23:29
January 31 2012 05:19 GMT
#960
On January 31 2012 13:15 plogamer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2012 11:59 Jibba wrote:
On January 31 2012 11:19 plogamer wrote:
Drama aside, this issue highlights the question of players and tournaments accommodating each other. I say both sides are wrong. There clearly was a lack of communication of the boundaries and responsibilities between the parties involved.

Asking a professional to perform at 2 am of his time is unreasonable. However, said player should also communicate his timeline/schedule and let the tournament know ahead of time.

Earlier in the day Stephano played in and won the SCAN Invitational (beating Grubby in the finals) and as a result requested that ONOG delay his match so he could participate.


He knows how long SC2 matches go, if it's beginning to breach when he thought he could play then he should've said that from the beginning. Asking a tournament to delay and then pulling out afterwards is completely unacceptable, imo. I don't agree with forfeiting in a finals no matter what, but to do it after making a request of a tournament is even worse.

And the sports analogies seem moot, because ESPORTS is simply not near the level of professionalism of normal sports, but it's past a point of amateurism where people actually play for the enjoyment of the game/competition. I'd just like to point out that last night in DotA 2, an Australian team played a tournament all night long and lost in the grand finals at 8:30 AM their time. The first place prize was a headset, mouse, mouse pad and last generation video card. :| They obviously didn't need to, but I respect them more for it, just like we respect athletes more for playing through injuries and sickness.

Outside of a few select players, tournament organizers really have most of the leverage here and I think they did the right thing, and I probably wouldn't invite him to a future event. This drama really is a mess, and Stephano isn't a draw like IdrA or some Koreans. If the prize money continues to be good, they'll still get a ton of good players.


I completely agree that Stephano did not handle it correctly.

However, analogy to sports should not be moot. It's not about the matter of professionalism, in my opinion, but rather simple utilitarianism. Tournaments have a reasonable responsibility to accommodate the players for one simple reason: it gives better games for the audience. Stephano playing half-awake would be a poor show.
Is it a show or a competition?

If you want to see players at the tip top performance, well... quite frankly that doesn't happen in almost any sport at the end of a tournament. By the end of the season, players are worn out and injured. Stephano wouldn't be at his best, but neither would Kas and that's basically what happens in the championship of every sport.

Even if it's a show, the adage "the show must go on" exists for a reason. If a star of a show brushes people away until they're absolutely ready, we usually call them a diva. I think that's what Stephano is.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
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