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I always try to see if I can learn anything from these threads, but all I see is half posts that are wrong people arguing with wrong people, and the other half of the posts are "I think it would be cool if X switched" or "I think X switched already".
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I think of the top brood war pros FXO is referring to might be Jaedong. He's been in a slump recently (probably cause he's been practicing alot of SC2?) He even stated he would be switching to SC2 eventually, so this could be the time...Fans follow the teams and players...And Jaedong wants to play at foreign events as well (Like MLG)
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On January 09 2012 15:45 magnaflow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 15:41 Diamond wrote:On January 09 2012 15:39 Milkis wrote:On January 09 2012 15:35 Diamond wrote:On January 09 2012 15:17 Milkis wrote:
i haven't paid enough attention to the scene for a while so I don't really know what FXOBoss is referring to completely. I don't even know if this upcoming event is even "big" as I'm going to make it seem. I'm pretty sure FXOBoss is referring to something else completely different.
Just note that what I'm about to just say something general about the Korean BW/SC2 scene, and how I see it going right now and the direction it'll take in the near future.
If you paid attention to what's been released, it's pretty damn obvious kespa has been trying to run sc2 for a long time now, despite what other people think. Fomos and DES published plenty of shit regarding industry insiders commenting on things like this, and just pay attention to the IP Rights debate, from the beginning to the conclusion. The fight was an implicit one over SC2 and in the end Kespa has said that they want to be able to help blizzard promote HotS.
if people haven't realized by now bw has been on a decline for a few years now. Proleague ratings, OGN/MBC Game ratings, etc. They are literally 1/3rd of what they were in 2007. It's freaking obvious why MBC Game got canned in the long run. They're a gaming channel and the only thing that generated halfway decent ratings was proleague and everything else people barely watched.
at the same time from what i can tell kespa is pretty convinced that most of the fans in esports are fans of the teams and the players and thus a good portion of these people will follow the players and the teams into sc2 if there was such a switch. considering bw is dying and it's getting harder and harder to get sponsors (don't take what they say in the press at face value, btw), it's logical that they are probably going to do sc2 soon.
why do you think PL has two "distinct" seasons with two distinct finals? this isn't a coincidence. its not something they would want to announce either since it'd take away from the current BW scene. do you think fomos picking up sc2 randomly again is a coincidence? or DES completely flipping their stance on BW? or all those teaser articles? korean bw/sc2 coverage is very very well controlled. realize that. they use it to gauge reactions. they "tease" about events that'll happen. notice that all of those are probably in there for a VERY good reason.
wake the hell up bw people. it's not "if", it's "when". It'll probably happen this year.
also to anyone who says "BW is on life support" -- esports as a whole is on life support. Why do you think blizzard dropped the stance on trying to extort money from the scene in korea? They finally discovered that no one in korean esports (except maybe OGN/MBC Game but that's arguable) makes any sort of money and that kespa literally lives off sponsors.
The entire scene has been a freaking fragile one since the entire IP rights debacle. If IP rights debacle never happened and blizzard fully supported KeSPA (then again, this may not have happened since people in KeSPA are kind of obtuse to a certain extent -_-) everyone would have swapped to SC2 and we'd be seeing a lot higher level play. imagine everyone is on MVP/MMA's level, and then there's like a few people who are one level on top of that. its kind of funny how bw people talk down players like mvp mma and say that they weren't good BW players -- MMA was only pro for a year and only retired due to personal reasons but he had a ton of potential and mvp would probably be a solid terran on the level of Bogus right now. Just imagine if everyone was as good as or at least as good as them with a few people a few notches higher and that's what you should be expecting once all of them fully transitioned.
that's my 2 cents. i highly recommend people to read korean news sources with a bit higher degree of scrutiny because again they're all very well controlled. No damnit. Don't go pulling this "Only Korean BW is E-Sports" shit again. E-Sports is fine, Korean BW is dying, there is a very distinct difference. KeSPA is not E-Sports. The millions and millions of dollars and millions of viewers for other games besides BW all over the world is light years ahead of a system where they control. learn to read. i have never, ever, said that by YOUR definition that was true. I said i didn't like that definitionI defined my own term/definition. Which you would have figured out if you and everyone learned how to fucking read instead of bandwagonning off some DJWheat post which was a rash emotional response and had nothing to do with what i was implying. So why dont you and the rest of the community stop putting words in my mouth? anyway i'm obviously referring to korean esports which is bw/sc2. korean esports is doomed unless LoL picks up to be the new hot thing which is strongly heading towards that direction. Uh what? On January 09 2012 15:17 Milkis wrote:
also to anyone who says "BW is on life support" -- esports as a whole is on life support. You don't just get to redefine defined terms because you want to personally. E-Sports is many games, no matter how much it seems to bug you. I'm not agreeing with Milkis at all here, but what other games could really be considered an e-sport other then Starcraft. Other games are surely more popular but when it comes to the skill and dediacation needed Starcraft is where it's at. Any other game doesn't come close.
Starcraft is in my opinion the premiere E-Sport but there is more E-Sports. It's like saying only Baseball is a sport because it's the best or biggest or whatever which would be inaccurate.
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FBH vs MC in ceremony wars. For that to happen FBH cannot be in oGs. But I would love SKT1 merging with oGs. MC, Bisu, By.Sun, ForGG, Fantasy.. GSTL champion everytime!
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5003 Posts
On January 09 2012 15:45 aristarchus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 15:17 Milkis wrote:
i haven't paid enough attention to the scene for a while so I don't really know what FXOBoss is referring to completely. I don't even know if this upcoming event is even "big" as I'm going to make it seem. I'm pretty sure FXOBoss is referring to something else completely different.
Just note that what I'm about to just say something general about the Korean BW/SC2 scene, and how I see it going right now and the direction it'll take in the near future.
If you paid attention to what's been released, it's pretty damn obvious kespa has been trying to run sc2 for a long time now, despite what other people think. Fomos and DES published plenty of shit regarding industry insiders commenting on things like this, and just pay attention to the IP Rights debate, from the beginning to the conclusion. The fight was an implicit one over SC2 and in the end Kespa has said that they want to be able to help blizzard promote HotS.
if people haven't realized by now bw has been on a decline for a few years now. Proleague ratings, OGN/MBC Game ratings, etc. They are literally 1/3rd of what they were in 2007. It's freaking obvious why MBC Game got canned in the long run. They're a gaming channel and the only thing that generated halfway decent ratings was proleague and everything else people barely watched.
at the same time from what i can tell kespa is pretty convinced that most of the fans in esports are fans of the teams and the players and thus a good portion of these people will follow the players and the teams into sc2 if there was such a switch. considering bw is dying and it's getting harder and harder to get sponsors (don't take what they say in the press at face value, btw), it's logical that they are probably going to do sc2 soon.
why do you think PL has two "distinct" seasons with two distinct finals? this isn't a coincidence. its not something they would want to announce either since it'd take away from the current BW scene. do you think fomos picking up sc2 randomly again is a coincidence? or DES completely flipping their stance on BW? or all those teaser articles? korean bw/sc2 coverage is very very well controlled. realize that. they use it to gauge reactions. they "tease" about events that'll happen. notice that all of those are probably in there for a VERY good reason.
wake the hell up bw people. it's not "if", it's "when". It'll probably happen this year.
also to anyone who says "BW is on life support" -- esports as a whole is on life support. Why do you think blizzard dropped the stance on trying to extort money from the scene in korea? They finally discovered that no one in korean esports (except maybe OGN/MBC Game but that's arguable) makes any sort of money and that kespa literally lives off sponsors.
The entire scene has been a freaking fragile one since the entire IP rights debacle. If IP rights debacle never happened and blizzard fully supported KeSPA (then again, this may not have happened since people in KeSPA are kind of obtuse to a certain extent -_-) everyone would have swapped to SC2 and we'd be seeing a lot higher level play. imagine everyone is on MVP/MMA's level, and then there's like a few people who are one level on top of that. its kind of funny how bw people talk down players like mvp mma and say that they weren't good BW players -- MMA was only pro for a year and only retired due to personal reasons but he had a ton of potential and mvp would probably be a solid terran on the level of Bogus right now. Just imagine if everyone was as good as or at least as good as them with a few people a few notches higher and that's what you should be expecting once all of them fully transitioned.
that's my 2 cents. i highly recommend people to read korean news sources with a bit higher degree of scrutiny because again they're all very well controlled.
I think all of this makes sense, and most of it (not details like timing, etc.) has been pretty obvious for a while, even to me (and I don't follow BW at all). What I'm more curious about is how KeSPA fits into things in SC2. They're not going to have monopoly control like they did in BW, so what happens? (Or are they going to try to get monopoly control?) It's probably in the interest of the individual teams to basically dissolve KeSPA, since it can't do it's old thing when half the teams in the game aren't part of it. That or it needs to try to include the SC2 teams? Or have separate tournaments and exclude them, and hope its tournaments win? How do foreigners fit in? Clearly they must see the potential in the foreign market, but there's no way on earth the foreign scene accepts them as a governing body now. I could see the transition being very messy, and it seems like getting through that successfully is going to be one of the biggest hurdles for SC2 to grow.
answer to any of that is speculation and the actual fact of what's going on changes way too much on a monthly basis so it's really hard to comment. we'll probably have to wait and see on most of the questions you've mentioned.
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On January 09 2012 15:45 aristarchus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 15:17 Milkis wrote:
i haven't paid enough attention to the scene for a while so I don't really know what FXOBoss is referring to completely. I don't even know if this upcoming event is even "big" as I'm going to make it seem. I'm pretty sure FXOBoss is referring to something else completely different.
Just note that what I'm about to just say something general about the Korean BW/SC2 scene, and how I see it going right now and the direction it'll take in the near future.
If you paid attention to what's been released, it's pretty damn obvious kespa has been trying to run sc2 for a long time now, despite what other people think. Fomos and DES published plenty of shit regarding industry insiders commenting on things like this, and just pay attention to the IP Rights debate, from the beginning to the conclusion. The fight was an implicit one over SC2 and in the end Kespa has said that they want to be able to help blizzard promote HotS.
if people haven't realized by now bw has been on a decline for a few years now. Proleague ratings, OGN/MBC Game ratings, etc. They are literally 1/3rd of what they were in 2007. It's freaking obvious why MBC Game got canned in the long run. They're a gaming channel and the only thing that generated halfway decent ratings was proleague and everything else people barely watched.
at the same time from what i can tell kespa is pretty convinced that most of the fans in esports are fans of the teams and the players and thus a good portion of these people will follow the players and the teams into sc2 if there was such a switch. considering bw is dying and it's getting harder and harder to get sponsors (don't take what they say in the press at face value, btw), it's logical that they are probably going to do sc2 soon.
why do you think PL has two "distinct" seasons with two distinct finals? this isn't a coincidence. its not something they would want to announce either since it'd take away from the current BW scene. do you think fomos picking up sc2 randomly again is a coincidence? or DES completely flipping their stance on BW? or all those teaser articles? korean bw/sc2 coverage is very very well controlled. realize that. they use it to gauge reactions. they "tease" about events that'll happen. notice that all of those are probably in there for a VERY good reason.
wake the hell up bw people. it's not "if", it's "when". It'll probably happen this year.
also to anyone who says "BW is on life support" -- esports as a whole is on life support. Why do you think blizzard dropped the stance on trying to extort money from the scene in korea? They finally discovered that no one in korean esports (except maybe OGN/MBC Game but that's arguable) makes any sort of money and that kespa literally lives off sponsors.
The entire scene has been a freaking fragile one since the entire IP rights debacle. If IP rights debacle never happened and blizzard fully supported KeSPA (then again, this may not have happened since people in KeSPA are kind of obtuse to a certain extent -_-) everyone would have swapped to SC2 and we'd be seeing a lot higher level play. imagine everyone is on MVP/MMA's level, and then there's like a few people who are one level on top of that. its kind of funny how bw people talk down players like mvp mma and say that they weren't good BW players -- MMA was only pro for a year and only retired due to personal reasons but he had a ton of potential and mvp would probably be a solid terran on the level of Bogus right now. Just imagine if everyone was as good as or at least as good as them with a few people a few notches higher and that's what you should be expecting once all of them fully transitioned.
that's my 2 cents. i highly recommend people to read korean news sources with a bit higher degree of scrutiny because again they're all very well controlled.
I think all of this makes sense, and most of it (not details like timing, etc.) has been pretty obvious for a while, even to me (and I don't follow BW at all). What I'm more curious about is how KeSPA fits into things in SC2. They're not going to have monopoly control like they did in BW, so what happens? (Or are they going to try to get monopoly control?) It's probably in the interest of the individual teams to basically dissolve KeSPA, since it can't do it's old thing when half the teams in the game aren't part of it. That or it needs to try to include the SC2 teams? Or have separate tournaments and exclude them, and hope its tournaments win? How do foreigners fit in? Clearly they must see the potential in the foreign market, but there's no way on earth the foreign scene accepts them as a governing body now. I could see the transition being very messy, and it seems like getting through that successfully is going to be one of the biggest hurdles for SC2 to grow.
For all we know Kespa could be left behind and teams/players may try to go out on thier own. Picking up individual sponsors like all the other SC2 teams have been doing. Maybe thats what the plans are and Kespa is just trying to get a piece of the pie.
I don't know, don't know much about BW or Kespa.
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guys, most of the amazing scbw players haven't been that great, the bonjwa, NaDa hasn't put up beastly scores recently, MVP was minorly good, ogsfin / forGG was good, but not great, JulyZerg, one of the great zergs lost to HuK at dreamhack. The games are very different, i'm not saying they won't be good, i'm saying most of them won't be all they are cracked up to be. Boxer doesn't dominate the scene, NaDa doesn't dominate the scene, its MVP and Nestea and MMA and Ganzi, and of those, 3/4 were not great at BW.
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On January 09 2012 15:46 Colonial wrote:
I think of the top brood war pros FXO is referring to might be Jaedong. He's been in a slump recently (probably cause he's been practicing alot of SC2?) He even stated he would be switching to SC2 eventually, so this could be the time...Fans follow the teams and players...And Jaedong wants to play at foreign events as well (Like MLG)
I see it happening if team 8 disolves from doing so poorly ( so far )
otherwise no
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On January 09 2012 15:45 aristarchus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 15:17 Milkis wrote:
i haven't paid enough attention to the scene for a while so I don't really know what FXOBoss is referring to completely. I don't even know if this upcoming event is even "big" as I'm going to make it seem. I'm pretty sure FXOBoss is referring to something else completely different.
Just note that what I'm about to just say something general about the Korean BW/SC2 scene, and how I see it going right now and the direction it'll take in the near future.
If you paid attention to what's been released, it's pretty damn obvious kespa has been trying to run sc2 for a long time now, despite what other people think. Fomos and DES published plenty of shit regarding industry insiders commenting on things like this, and just pay attention to the IP Rights debate, from the beginning to the conclusion. The fight was an implicit one over SC2 and in the end Kespa has said that they want to be able to help blizzard promote HotS.
if people haven't realized by now bw has been on a decline for a few years now. Proleague ratings, OGN/MBC Game ratings, etc. They are literally 1/3rd of what they were in 2007. It's freaking obvious why MBC Game got canned in the long run. They're a gaming channel and the only thing that generated halfway decent ratings was proleague and everything else people barely watched.
at the same time from what i can tell kespa is pretty convinced that most of the fans in esports are fans of the teams and the players and thus a good portion of these people will follow the players and the teams into sc2 if there was such a switch. considering bw is dying and it's getting harder and harder to get sponsors (don't take what they say in the press at face value, btw), it's logical that they are probably going to do sc2 soon.
why do you think PL has two "distinct" seasons with two distinct finals? this isn't a coincidence. its not something they would want to announce either since it'd take away from the current BW scene. do you think fomos picking up sc2 randomly again is a coincidence? or DES completely flipping their stance on BW? or all those teaser articles? korean bw/sc2 coverage is very very well controlled. realize that. they use it to gauge reactions. they "tease" about events that'll happen. notice that all of those are probably in there for a VERY good reason.
wake the hell up bw people. it's not "if", it's "when". It'll probably happen this year.
also to anyone who says "BW is on life support" -- esports as a whole is on life support. Why do you think blizzard dropped the stance on trying to extort money from the scene in korea? They finally discovered that no one in korean esports (except maybe OGN/MBC Game but that's arguable) makes any sort of money and that kespa literally lives off sponsors.
The entire scene has been a freaking fragile one since the entire IP rights debacle. If IP rights debacle never happened and blizzard fully supported KeSPA (then again, this may not have happened since people in KeSPA are kind of obtuse to a certain extent -_-) everyone would have swapped to SC2 and we'd be seeing a lot higher level play. imagine everyone is on MVP/MMA's level, and then there's like a few people who are one level on top of that. its kind of funny how bw people talk down players like mvp mma and say that they weren't good BW players -- MMA was only pro for a year and only retired due to personal reasons but he had a ton of potential and mvp would probably be a solid terran on the level of Bogus right now. Just imagine if everyone was as good as or at least as good as them with a few people a few notches higher and that's what you should be expecting once all of them fully transitioned.
that's my 2 cents. i highly recommend people to read korean news sources with a bit higher degree of scrutiny because again they're all very well controlled.
I think all of this makes sense, and most of it (not details like timing, etc.) has been pretty obvious for a while, even to me (and I don't follow BW at all). What I'm more curious about is how KeSPA fits into things in SC2. They're not going to have monopoly control like they did in BW, so what happens? (Or are they going to try to get monopoly control?) It's probably in the interest of the individual teams to basically dissolve KeSPA, since it can't do it's old thing when half the teams in the game aren't part of it. That or it needs to try to include the SC2 teams? Or have separate tournaments and exclude them, and hope its tournaments win? How do foreigners fit in? Clearly they must see the potential in the foreign market, but there's no way on earth the foreign scene accepts them as a governing body now. I could see the transition being very messy, and it seems like getting through that successfully is going to be one of the biggest hurdles for SC2 to grow.
dissolving kespa is the first thing to destroy korean esports. the fact that esports are still alive is because of big name companies behind the organisation known as kespa sponsoring these teams.
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On January 09 2012 15:46 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 15:45 magnaflow wrote:On January 09 2012 15:41 Diamond wrote:On January 09 2012 15:39 Milkis wrote:On January 09 2012 15:35 Diamond wrote:On January 09 2012 15:17 Milkis wrote:
i haven't paid enough attention to the scene for a while so I don't really know what FXOBoss is referring to completely. I don't even know if this upcoming event is even "big" as I'm going to make it seem. I'm pretty sure FXOBoss is referring to something else completely different.
Just note that what I'm about to just say something general about the Korean BW/SC2 scene, and how I see it going right now and the direction it'll take in the near future.
If you paid attention to what's been released, it's pretty damn obvious kespa has been trying to run sc2 for a long time now, despite what other people think. Fomos and DES published plenty of shit regarding industry insiders commenting on things like this, and just pay attention to the IP Rights debate, from the beginning to the conclusion. The fight was an implicit one over SC2 and in the end Kespa has said that they want to be able to help blizzard promote HotS.
if people haven't realized by now bw has been on a decline for a few years now. Proleague ratings, OGN/MBC Game ratings, etc. They are literally 1/3rd of what they were in 2007. It's freaking obvious why MBC Game got canned in the long run. They're a gaming channel and the only thing that generated halfway decent ratings was proleague and everything else people barely watched.
at the same time from what i can tell kespa is pretty convinced that most of the fans in esports are fans of the teams and the players and thus a good portion of these people will follow the players and the teams into sc2 if there was such a switch. considering bw is dying and it's getting harder and harder to get sponsors (don't take what they say in the press at face value, btw), it's logical that they are probably going to do sc2 soon.
why do you think PL has two "distinct" seasons with two distinct finals? this isn't a coincidence. its not something they would want to announce either since it'd take away from the current BW scene. do you think fomos picking up sc2 randomly again is a coincidence? or DES completely flipping their stance on BW? or all those teaser articles? korean bw/sc2 coverage is very very well controlled. realize that. they use it to gauge reactions. they "tease" about events that'll happen. notice that all of those are probably in there for a VERY good reason.
wake the hell up bw people. it's not "if", it's "when". It'll probably happen this year.
also to anyone who says "BW is on life support" -- esports as a whole is on life support. Why do you think blizzard dropped the stance on trying to extort money from the scene in korea? They finally discovered that no one in korean esports (except maybe OGN/MBC Game but that's arguable) makes any sort of money and that kespa literally lives off sponsors.
The entire scene has been a freaking fragile one since the entire IP rights debacle. If IP rights debacle never happened and blizzard fully supported KeSPA (then again, this may not have happened since people in KeSPA are kind of obtuse to a certain extent -_-) everyone would have swapped to SC2 and we'd be seeing a lot higher level play. imagine everyone is on MVP/MMA's level, and then there's like a few people who are one level on top of that. its kind of funny how bw people talk down players like mvp mma and say that they weren't good BW players -- MMA was only pro for a year and only retired due to personal reasons but he had a ton of potential and mvp would probably be a solid terran on the level of Bogus right now. Just imagine if everyone was as good as or at least as good as them with a few people a few notches higher and that's what you should be expecting once all of them fully transitioned.
that's my 2 cents. i highly recommend people to read korean news sources with a bit higher degree of scrutiny because again they're all very well controlled. No damnit. Don't go pulling this "Only Korean BW is E-Sports" shit again. E-Sports is fine, Korean BW is dying, there is a very distinct difference. KeSPA is not E-Sports. The millions and millions of dollars and millions of viewers for other games besides BW all over the world is light years ahead of a system where they control. learn to read. i have never, ever, said that by YOUR definition that was true. I said i didn't like that definitionI defined my own term/definition. Which you would have figured out if you and everyone learned how to fucking read instead of bandwagonning off some DJWheat post which was a rash emotional response and had nothing to do with what i was implying. So why dont you and the rest of the community stop putting words in my mouth? anyway i'm obviously referring to korean esports which is bw/sc2. korean esports is doomed unless LoL picks up to be the new hot thing which is strongly heading towards that direction. Uh what? On January 09 2012 15:17 Milkis wrote:
also to anyone who says "BW is on life support" -- esports as a whole is on life support. You don't just get to redefine defined terms because you want to personally. E-Sports is many games, no matter how much it seems to bug you. I'm not agreeing with Milkis at all here, but what other games could really be considered an e-sport other then Starcraft. Other games are surely more popular but when it comes to the skill and dediacation needed Starcraft is where it's at. Any other game doesn't come close. Starcraft is in my opinion the premiere E-Sport but there is more E-Sports. It's like saying only Baseball is a sport because it's the best or biggest or whatever which would be inaccurate.
True, but starcraft is the MLB, anything else is minor league
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im excited to see more top level pros switch over, however i hope atleast 1 more big tournament springs up for KOREA , because all they have is the GSL, which is not enough to support so many players. Basically they be living out of their cars .
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im going to guess Classic
he has only played one game since the summer, where he lost, so that fits "relatively inactive"
STX have been underperforming, and could "cut the fat" from their roster a bit. Hell, they put their entire roster up for trade.
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On January 09 2012 15:43 power-overwhelming wrote:
Imagine Fantasy in sc2..
Failing at Bio play? Crying when he learns he can't hide buildings to drag out the game?
Anyways, I doubt anyone good is switching. I think some of the Koreans would have let something slip. It isn't like they live in a vacuum,we do have access to some players streams from the disbanded teams who play BW on Fish, and they are in contact with current pros. Probably players like Paralyze, Byul, Ssak, by.hero.
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On January 09 2012 15:51 OopsOopsBaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 15:45 aristarchus wrote:On January 09 2012 15:17 Milkis wrote:
i haven't paid enough attention to the scene for a while so I don't really know what FXOBoss is referring to completely. I don't even know if this upcoming event is even "big" as I'm going to make it seem. I'm pretty sure FXOBoss is referring to something else completely different.
Just note that what I'm about to just say something general about the Korean BW/SC2 scene, and how I see it going right now and the direction it'll take in the near future.
If you paid attention to what's been released, it's pretty damn obvious kespa has been trying to run sc2 for a long time now, despite what other people think. Fomos and DES published plenty of shit regarding industry insiders commenting on things like this, and just pay attention to the IP Rights debate, from the beginning to the conclusion. The fight was an implicit one over SC2 and in the end Kespa has said that they want to be able to help blizzard promote HotS.
if people haven't realized by now bw has been on a decline for a few years now. Proleague ratings, OGN/MBC Game ratings, etc. They are literally 1/3rd of what they were in 2007. It's freaking obvious why MBC Game got canned in the long run. They're a gaming channel and the only thing that generated halfway decent ratings was proleague and everything else people barely watched.
at the same time from what i can tell kespa is pretty convinced that most of the fans in esports are fans of the teams and the players and thus a good portion of these people will follow the players and the teams into sc2 if there was such a switch. considering bw is dying and it's getting harder and harder to get sponsors (don't take what they say in the press at face value, btw), it's logical that they are probably going to do sc2 soon.
why do you think PL has two "distinct" seasons with two distinct finals? this isn't a coincidence. its not something they would want to announce either since it'd take away from the current BW scene. do you think fomos picking up sc2 randomly again is a coincidence? or DES completely flipping their stance on BW? or all those teaser articles? korean bw/sc2 coverage is very very well controlled. realize that. they use it to gauge reactions. they "tease" about events that'll happen. notice that all of those are probably in there for a VERY good reason.
wake the hell up bw people. it's not "if", it's "when". It'll probably happen this year.
also to anyone who says "BW is on life support" -- esports as a whole is on life support. Why do you think blizzard dropped the stance on trying to extort money from the scene in korea? They finally discovered that no one in korean esports (except maybe OGN/MBC Game but that's arguable) makes any sort of money and that kespa literally lives off sponsors.
The entire scene has been a freaking fragile one since the entire IP rights debacle. If IP rights debacle never happened and blizzard fully supported KeSPA (then again, this may not have happened since people in KeSPA are kind of obtuse to a certain extent -_-) everyone would have swapped to SC2 and we'd be seeing a lot higher level play. imagine everyone is on MVP/MMA's level, and then there's like a few people who are one level on top of that. its kind of funny how bw people talk down players like mvp mma and say that they weren't good BW players -- MMA was only pro for a year and only retired due to personal reasons but he had a ton of potential and mvp would probably be a solid terran on the level of Bogus right now. Just imagine if everyone was as good as or at least as good as them with a few people a few notches higher and that's what you should be expecting once all of them fully transitioned.
that's my 2 cents. i highly recommend people to read korean news sources with a bit higher degree of scrutiny because again they're all very well controlled.
I think all of this makes sense, and most of it (not details like timing, etc.) has been pretty obvious for a while, even to me (and I don't follow BW at all). What I'm more curious about is how KeSPA fits into things in SC2. They're not going to have monopoly control like they did in BW, so what happens? (Or are they going to try to get monopoly control?) It's probably in the interest of the individual teams to basically dissolve KeSPA, since it can't do it's old thing when half the teams in the game aren't part of it. That or it needs to try to include the SC2 teams? Or have separate tournaments and exclude them, and hope its tournaments win? How do foreigners fit in? Clearly they must see the potential in the foreign market, but there's no way on earth the foreign scene accepts them as a governing body now. I could see the transition being very messy, and it seems like getting through that successfully is going to be one of the biggest hurdles for SC2 to grow. dissolving kespa is the first thing to destroy korean esports. the fact that esports are still alive is because of big name companies behind the organisation known as kespa sponsoring these teams.
But the motivation to sponsor the teams is advertising, right? And if the teams had just as many (or more) fans/viewers then the same motivation would still exist, right? Why would KeSPA not existing make the sponsorships go away? I know that right now the sponsors sort of control things, but I don't see any reason why that needs to be true. In one scenario, companies run a smaller business that generates publicity. In another, other businesses generate publicity, which they sell to other businesses (sponsors). Either is completely feasible, but the difference isn't actually that big a deal, and every other sport in the world works on the second model. Sponsors don't normally own major sports teams, nor do they get a vote in how the leagues are run. The leagues still have to run in a way sponsors like, though, because the sponsors are the real customers.
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On January 09 2012 15:45 Wolf wrote:
I always try to see if I can learn anything from these threads, but all I see is half posts that are wrong people arguing with wrong people, and the other half of the posts are "I think it would be cool if X switched" or "I think X switched already".
Too bad you know more than a lot of people D:, not much for you to learn from people not living in Korea like you ;P.
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On January 09 2012 15:51 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 15:46 Colonial wrote:
I think of the top brood war pros FXO is referring to might be Jaedong. He's been in a slump recently (probably cause he's been practicing alot of SC2?) He even stated he would be switching to SC2 eventually, so this could be the time...Fans follow the teams and players...And Jaedong wants to play at foreign events as well (Like MLG) I see it happening if team 8 disolves from doing so poorly ( so far ) otherwise no
i would shit bricks if he did that, i <3 jaedong
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I'm a tad confused with Milkis' League of Legends comment. What does LoL have to do with Korean e-sports? Would it give it a boost or something?
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On January 09 2012 15:56 deadmau wrote:
I'm a tad confused with Milkis' League of Legends comment. What does LoL have to do with Korean e-sports? Would it give it a boost or something?
I think what he meant is that LoL is becoming the go to game in Korea.
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Meh...couple of lower level A-teamer switching to SC2 wouldn't make that big of impact on the scene. SC2 is a different game with lesser mechanic requirement. I don't see the top dogs switching as they are still being paid the big checks no SC2 team can afford.
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United States23455 Posts
On January 09 2012 15:46 power-overwhelming wrote:
FBH vs MC in ceremony wars. For that to happen FBH cannot be in oGs. But I would love SKT1 merging with oGs. MC, Bisu, By.Sun, ForGG, Fantasy.. GSTL champion everytime!
If the Brood War teams switched, they would just buy up all the good players. CJ, KHAN, SKT1, and KT have cash. A lot more than any of the SC2 teams.
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EPT
