Hey there forums of Team Liquid! I'm in need of some help, and I need as much input as I can get. Simply put: How would you describe SC2 to your parents, in hopes of getting them to watch it as fervently as they would watch their favorite athletic sport?
Why am I asking this? I'm currently working to make a video of some kind that would do exactly what I just asked: Be able to explain to the complete and total gamer-ignorant what Starcraft 2's competitive scene is. It needs to be concise, simple, and start from the ground up. I have my own ideas of course, and I'm working to refine them as much as possible, but I want to make sure my ideas are in the right direction.
So, bronze players and grand masters alike, tell me in the simplest terms you can possibly think of: What is Starcraft 2's competitive scene?
Edit:: Might be a good idea to say what I'm already talking about, neh?
Thus far, I'm focusing on a simple TvT for simplicity's sake, on a basic map (Steppes of War), highlighting the gathering of resources to fund an army.
From there, I'll break it into ground units, flying units, and bonuses versus unit types. After that, I have no idea. Again, all Terran-based for now; I figure it's the easiest to relate to and understand, off the bat.
Parents seem to have a very hard time getting into it, i remember my brother was at home a couple of months ago and plugged in HDMI to our big TV in the living room and our parents came in and tried to watch it for a couple of minutes...
Sadly they refuse to take it seriously at all and thinks that its just some childplay game, we even described to them that it is kind of like a chess but with real time action. but they still had a really hard time figuring out what was going on...
I think the only way is to somehow get them to play some of it before they can understand... but Good Luck with that..
I guess parents are different tho Good Luck anyway
Part of the idea is that my brother and father both LOVE American football, yet they've never played it. Not in high school, not in college, but they follow it like no other. I figure if they never play that, but enjoy watching, the same can be applied to SC2.
I hold a similar fervor for SC2 as they do for football, so I'm hoping to convey a bit of that excitement to help enticing people to just watch. Baby steps, is the idea (hence the request for the most basic description).
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
The future sounds awesome.
You are so wrong. We will be like, shut up kid SC3 is a terrible game, SC2 was the real deal.
It's kinda like the yelling you guys do to eachother, but over the internet and without getting other people involved in it.... ;_; .
I really don't bother explaining it to my parents. I've tried once, saying that it was similar to playing risk or chess, but they just dismiss it as sitting behind a computer screen. And other people sitting behind it watching someone else waste their lives away -_- . It's pretty much a lost cause in my case, I'd rather pay attention to the current generation rather than the previous one.
I appreciate the commendations to my efforts, but what I really would like is simple descriptions of the basic core aspects of Starcraft 2. If y'all could focus just upon that, I would be very thankful. (20-20 hindsight, a better title would have done wonders)
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
The future sounds awesome.
You are so wrong. We will be like, shut up kid SC3 is a terrible game, SC2 was the real deal.
some will, same deal as people sticking to bw right now. some others, however, will be excited for the new stuff coming up. I don't really see my interest in new technology ceasing any time soon. hope it stays that way
Don't make a video, if you are really passionate about starcraft 2, you could just explain it to them with words. They will know how passionate you are about it and probably try to watch it ^^.
The mainstream western mindset about esports is fucking horrible, even open minded people I know thing it is hilarious that people actually take "video games" seriously, most humans don't like things they can't understand and things that challenge their little comfortable version of the world they have built up for themselves.
It is basically carrying out a war similar to real-life wars in all ways but scale. Securing and harvesting resources, protecting your own resources, harassing the enemies resources. Battling for intelligence, defending and attacking from and through direct, focused and multipronged attacks. Judging on when or where to split forces or to consolidate, whether to attack now or wait until he's weaker later on. Deciding on researching technologies and so on and so forth.
Could go on forever but the first sentence is basically the gist of it.
On December 30 2011 20:56 Iselian wrote: I appreciate the commendations to my efforts, but what I really would like is simple descriptions of the basic core aspects of Starcraft 2. If y'all could focus just upon that, I would be very thankful. (20-20 hindsight, a better title would have done wonders)
There are 3 races: The Zerg : insect thingies that can build stuff really fast, but the stuff they build isn't supergood. The Protoss : alien thingies They don't build stuff fast but if they get more $$$ to build stuff with, the stuff gets really good The Terran : human thingies They build stuff quite fast since their stronger stuff isn't that good, but they need to position their stuff well or it dies really fast.
All races have workers that mine $$$ to build the stuff with, more workers + more bases = MORE STUFF
not to be a douche but i wouldnt explain sc2 to my parents (that is my parents specifically) as they are already convinced of the tottal worthlessness of games and anything to do withj it.
Ah, but it's not just the people around me, Dr! I want to make a video so that I can spread it far and wide, recruiting more to our cause and our passion! Really though, I want to make a video to help spread SC2 to the larger, unknown crowd.
But you know would really help with that? Everyone's awesome descriptions of SC2's core concepts. Really, that's all I'd like.
On December 30 2011 20:56 Iselian wrote: I appreciate the commendations to my efforts, but what I really would like is simple descriptions of the basic core aspects of Starcraft 2. If y'all could focus just upon that, I would be very thankful. (20-20 hindsight, a better title would have done wonders)
There are 3 races: The Zerg : insect thingies that can build stuff really fast, but the stuff they build isn't supergood. The Protoss : alien thingies They don't build stuff fast but if they get more $$$ to build stuff with, the stuff gets really good The Terran : human thingies They build stuff quite fast since their stronger stuff isn't that good, but they need to position their stuff well or it dies really fast.
All races have workers that mine $$$ to build the stuff with, more workers + more bases = MORE STUFF
I win.
Hey hey, this is what I'm looking for. Keep it coming!
Yeah I agree - it's better to talk about it yourself.
But then, I am luckily blessed with parents with irrational passions themselves, so it's easier .
Edit : The thing is, they probably aren't interested at all in the details of the game (descriptions of the races, here). Your point of view is better.
ah well in 30 years when we are parents, e-sports is gonna be everywhere. But for now it sucks yeah. If a person watches soccer it's normal, but if you watch a videogame then you are a weirdo and stuff. crazy world
part 2: scouting: See what your opponent is building. If he is building a certain unit u need to have something that can kill this unit or your opponent will just win. Vikings vs colossi etc etc
expanding: If you have too many workers on 1 base the workers get lazy and don't mine more $$$. So you need to get a new base to motivate the workers and get more $$$ faster.
I think you should explain in otherwise. You want them to watch first and then explain while they are watching. Show a part of dreamhack when HerO won. So they can see the passion of the people involved in this game .
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
The future sounds awesome.
Well i dunno about that, my parents didn't grow up on technology, aka video games, cellphones, internet, so it's totally different for them. My dad grew up watching and playing sports, so the idea of watching people being competitive on a video game would be a joke to him. I mean think about what people did before video games/internet were out, yes i know pong and such may have been out, but i doubt that was a big hit then. If you were born in the 80s or 90s, you grew up with all of it so yeah, it won't be anything like it is right now.
Maybe you need to show the difference between scrubs and pros to show them how StarCraft isn't kids business. Show an overview of a Bronze game in 10mins, then a GM one. Bam, your parents will be like, "wtf so many more buildings and people in the game, what happened omg hax"
Then show them the eSports scene in Korea or the crowd in any big tournament. Your parents will be like ,"wtf so many people why are they there to only watch a game?"
Then proceed to explain about the concept of professional StarCraft gaming. Explain team houses, clans, casters, etc. Your parents will be like, "wtf so many people in 1 house how do they take care of their "needs" and sleeping omg. wtf people spend time talking about the game just like soccer, thats so amazing omg. sc is now like a real sport to me but i dont understand how the game works but thats ok with me cos i know u are enjoying it like how papa used to enjoy watching soccer."
Maybe you need to show the difference between scrubs and pros to show them how StarCraft isn't kids business. Show an overview of a Bronze game in 10mins, then a GM one. Bam, your parents will be like, "wtf so many more buildings and people in the game, what happened omg hax"
Then show them the eSports scene in Korea or the crowd in any big tournament. Your parents will be like ,"wtf so many people why are they there to only watch a game?"
Then proceed to explain about the concept of professional StarCraft gaming. Explain team houses, clans, casters, etc. Your parents will be like, "wtf so many people in 1 house how do they take care of their "needs" and sleeping omg. wtf people spend time talking about the game just like soccer, thats so amazing omg. sc is now like a real sport to me but i dont understand how the game works but thats ok with me cos i know u are enjoying it like how papa used to enjoy watching soccer."
DONE.
I think that's a lot better. What could (possibly) interest them is not the game in itself - they don't give a damn - but the community around it.
You need to destroy opponent's base in order to win the game. You need units to do so. You need buildings to produce units. You need ressources to produce buildings and units. You need harvesters to get ressources and build buildings and harvester is one unit. Units interact between them like rock paper cissor so you need to know what your opponent is doing and you want to hide what you are doing, it's a mindgame. The difficulty starts when you have to do all of this at the same time and have to choose what you do.
It does not explain units and tech trees but at least they'll have a basic understanding of what they see. Avoid the description of each unit, it seems important to us but it is fucking boring to have a list of each unit, they will just forget all the basics. If after the video they agree to see a game you should just cast it live for them, a fun and short one. Like a succesful all in from 2 bases from toss to a fast 3 bases zerg so they understand the mindgame and the tech advantage. I think toss is a good choice because their units are easy to read : colossi rape hard, sentries creates wall, zealots are melee, stalkers are range, observer scouts. Second race is up to you. But don't choose a gosu match with backflips and late game madness it will just bore them as they won't understand and it will be long. First match will bore them anyway I think.
Try and avoid showing them "really nerdy" players, because they'll have their opinions set from the start that way. I know that when my girlfriend sits nearby when I'm watching she takes more interest in it when the people on screen arent stereotypical fat/weedy nerds. Its a shallow way to think about things but sadly the world is like that.
I think parents or older people who dont game have an idea of video-games in their head that theyre just a more fancy pacman, or pong with better graphics (extremes I know, but you get the point). Maybe you should show that video-games have evolved very quickly and become more intricate in design.
On December 30 2011 21:19 Iselian wrote: nojok and Azera, EXACTLY what I need! More more more, thank you two so much! Everyone else, please given the same types of feedback.
you want to explain the basics, when you explain american football to someone, you tell them the basics of the game and what the basic idea on how to win is, not naming all the positions and all the small things that do not matter until you get into the game. In starcraft it is about choosing to go for an economic build, tech build/ big army build. Don't go in and start naming the units in the game, thats a bad idea. Explain things like choosing an economic build, where your army and tech is weaker, which is a sacrifice for a better end game, or going tech heavy and sacrificing economy, or going for a big army to start and having a strong early game but your late game won't be good.
"Starcraft II is a what is called a real-time strategy game. It combines strategy aspects of chess but allows you to play at your own pace, while also forcing you to manage your economy. The overall goal of the game is to eliminate all enemy buildings, but this is not as simple as it sounds. In order to be successful you must be able to determine what your opponent is doing, secure additional money (bases), and deny your opponent expansions." Is more or less my general "this is what SC2 is" that I tell people when the subject comes up.
SC2 is a game of mankind. It is the most physical chess game existed in the world. It highly incorporates economics, strategic knowledge, and hand speed. You need to have all three to play well. Currently the Koreans are the best because they have good chess/go players, and their hands move fast since they are Asians.
It is not just a game for somebody, it is a dream, it is a job, it is life.
I do not think you should explain the core details to parents, such as scouting. A hard thing about parents is that everyone is different; There are parents who love to play games with their sons, and really are into Video Games. There are parents who don't do anything at all and don't care about anything. There are parents who love Football and want their childrens to play it instead of Starcraft 2 (as example).
Satisfying everyone is very hard. I suggest you start off with some basics, what Starcraft 2 is like (E.g. Imagine a Chess Game, but only in real time with both players moving at the same time). Then, if the parents decide to keep watching, you might want to explain it more in-depth (Obviously don't discuss build orders :D), the key elements such as scouting, building your base. Then, you eventually might want to discuss the 'jargon', e.g. micro, macro, such stuff. And at last, you could mention South Korea and their kids can live a happy life as Progamers down in South Korea. Don't forget to mention a few progamers aswell though, as people might be interested in references.
I wouldn't bother with the technical aspects ie. damage bonuses etc because it would add unnecessary confusion. Really interested to see if this gets somewhere though, making my parents accept sc2 as something other than a waste of time has so far been impossible. Good luck!
My dad plays poker and like "thinking-games". He also got a passion for money, so when he read about people making money playing SC2 he asked me about it instead of me showing it for him.
Dad: "So I read a guy made alot of money in that game called Starcraft, are you a good Starcraft player?" Me: "Uhm, I'm decent (another word for platinum), but not good enough for money, you have to play alot more and have some talent." Dad: "Well, you are always on your computer!" Me: "When I don't work or when I'm with friends doing random shit, pretty much yeah, still not near enough" Dad: "Why don't you take a year of, and get really good at the game. You should have the talent according to your grades in math" Me: "input what?! face"
My mother on the other hand is working out every-single-f***ing minute, when she got some spare time, so she just see red when I sit at the computer or talk about computer-games. My brother is a peasant who only cares about his boy-gang (lol), "epa-traktorer" and beer so he hates computer games too. My sister, well, she likes moviestarplanet dot com and facebook.
So if your family members don't have any related interest at all don't bother IMO, if you whould do anyway, tell them you can make alot of money if you're good enough
Easiest thing I say is its just another sport. Which of course always gets the reply, 'Buts it a computer game. Its not real.' To which I have the cunning reply of. "Soccer (Football) is just men kicking a ball around."
so i played a game of chess with them with some new rules.
the rules were you can move any piece at any time. (within their legal moves of course) there were no turns. if you wanted to you could move two pieces with two hands but had to follow their "movement limitations"
once i explained the rules and we started i just quickly ninja'd my two horses with both hands across the board stole about 10 pieces before shortly checkmating them in about 10 seconds.
they just sat there going WTF i didnt even get a chance to move..
i basically said imagine that only for 20+ minutes straight and both players are moving their pieces at that speed.
I've done some similar stuff before (not with SC though), and one thing to have in mind is to Keep It Simple Stupid. Azera has a very good point, maybe they'll be more interested in the community than the game, plus it's easier to understand how e-sport works rather than how starcraft does.
But still, it may be interesting to show them a game. Find a simple one, maybe a high level TvT from around the launch of the game, action packed and done in <10, preferably using only basic units like MM and hellions, 1 base vs 1 base. Maybe "cast" it yourself ? That way, you can fast foward the beginning while briefly saying that you got to manage an economy to produce tech and units (not much more info is needed at first, really), and then focus on some tense micro or something else catchy to the eye. Slip in somewhere that tech is only opening advanced/stronger options, and you got yourself an under 6 minutes overview of starcraft 101, much like sheperd's mate for chess.
Ok then what you do is you ask your parents if a game can make a grown man cry. They will probably say no. You then show them a bit of Day[9] daily #100. Your parents will be like ,"wtf why is he crying when talking about his history with the starcraft omg." You then explain more about Day[9] or let them watch more. Your parents will then be like ,"wtf omg thats so touching, his brother and mom, all so supportive on him and back at that time im sure esports was very small omg. we're going to go cry in our room now clearly this game means alot to you. oh no, i wont call it a game, i will call it your passion. you love starcraft son, we understand."
It is hard to explain. You have to make a lot of definitions first. What is map and minimap, what is a structure, supply and so on. All will be lost before you start with special abilities and things like armoured and light units
I think I'd show the first 5-6 minutes of the documentary about wcg/Xellos if anything, it's about sc1 though but still. You could make the argument that this is how it was in 2005 in korea and is now booming in the west.
edit: when I watched MLG on my HDtv my dad came in, watched it for like 10 min and went "wtf, this is like a sport?" was mainly due to tastosis casting I think though
If you're going to make a video and you're going to focus on tvt, then it's going to be purely the game itself you focus on. Nowadays we all know the game alone isn't everything. The community, the dramas, the interviews, etc. are what really makes the game an esport.
In order to make a really good video that will encapsulate the soul of sc2 and the competitive scene surrounding it, you will have to build up the video from a beginner level to a more all-round level later on (could be a 5 min video).
First, you need to show early game, how it fucking starts. This is what you see every game, so in order to a have a fixpoint for a newbie, do that. Next, you show mining minerals, getting your first supplydepot/ov/pylon explaining the food principle and also how they can look at resources in the top right. With the minerals and food you have, you show different opportunities for mineral usage. Barracks, commandcenter, marines, scvs, orbital, etc. Don't have to explain every option, probably just marine/cc). On that you add the gas income. With that you explain how the game has different tech patterns, sort of like adding electricity or oil to real life. This opens up a load of better and stronger options (unless you're terran, MARINE OP!!!!). Show them a factory building a tank and a starport building a battlecruiser. People can relate to those two units. Next aspect of the game you add could be the opponent aspect. Show them your opponents base somehow (be spectator or something). Show them how the other terran is doing similar things. Then how do we win? Superior macro, micro and decisions (could explain macro as economics maintenance, micro as moving units in a good strategic way, and decisions as choosing the correct gameplan whenever you see something new). Next clip could then be how tanks are shooting other tanks. Battlecruisers roasting marines. Whatever. Then end everything with a gg telling them this is how you 'formally' end the game in the pro scene. Next up you can show event showings, like the dreamhack finals scene (might add some (sound) clips of the cheering crowd and the casters excitement. That way you also show the role of the commentator.) Show teamhouses, players practicing, being interviewed, walking like a boss on stage (naniwa), etc. Show them the human, real life aspect of the game. In the end you also need to show the other two races somehow. Could be through a formal showreel of all units where they stand on line and you just quickly scroll by them or somthing.
Remember to keep specific strategy discussion and such out of it. Nobody will really understand it and wont really care if they've never heard about the game. Don't show them 1-1-1 (unless you want to show them rax, factory and starport to indicate the tech from gas).
To close it all off, you could show them 'so many banelings, marine micro, stalker blink micro, whatever. People will understand what they see (maybe not the gamewinning/losing aspect, but at least the micro and quick speed needed to do so). In the meantime you could have a small part of the screen showing a keyboard view of a pro player (doesn't really have to be synced).
I find this very difficult with my parents. For them, there are some gaming nerds who play that game. Which is of course inferior to "real" sports! They consider games like Starcraft very complicated, yet uninteresting. That you see men shot other men does not help either. They haven't the slightest interest that I explain some Starcraft things to them.
On December 30 2011 21:41 TyrantPotato wrote: i tried it once but i didnt have the words.
so i played a game of chess with them with some new rules.
the rules were you can move any piece at any time. (within their legal moves of course) there were no turns. if you wanted to you could move two pieces with two hands but had to follow their "movement limitations"
once i explained the rules and we started i just quickly ninja'd my two horses with both hands across the board stole about 10 pieces before shortly checkmating them in about 10 seconds.
they just sat there going WTF i didnt even get a chance to move..
i basically said imagine that only for 20+ minutes straight and both players are moving their pieces at that speed.
- Explain to them what starcraft 2 is, maybe put it into perspective just how big it is in Korea as well - Explain to them each race - Show them a really big game, fantastic game. Something in front of a live crowd, maybe something from blizzcon.
If you want parents to understand you need to relate SC2 to something they know. Chess has already been mentioned here. I would try and relate every concept in SC2 that you describe in terms of the game to Chess, so.
- Each player starts at the same basic position (CC and workers) like chess except there are 3 possible sets of pieces. - SC2 and Chess both have openings. These are your starting moves and help you develop an opening strategic position. - In SC2 your opponents Base (CC's especially) is like the King in Chess. The objective is to capture it/ destroy it. - Instead of starting with all your military pieces at once like in Chess, you only start with a few pawns and a king (Workers and CC). You get your military pieces by collecting resources. - You use the map just like a Chess board to gain Position Advantage on your opponent. - Because you don't start with all your pieces Position Advantage isn't the only factor of the game (unlike in chess). - Other factors are Economy (how many pieces you get), Tech (how advanced of pieces you get, like queen vs knight), and Micro (execution, how well you use your pieces - why SC2 is like a sport)
You can continue on from here.
You also mentioned football. When talking about the SC2 community I would compare it to American Football.
- Both Football and SC2 have fantasy leagues. - Both have teams, players, sponsors, and salary's. - Both have a dedicated and Social community. I would show them pictures of BarCrafts and such. (Football people will understand SC2 a lot better if they can see a group of guys in a bar drinking and watching it).
A final important thing to understand for someone who has never played SC2 is that Pro's like Huk and Idra are better then you or me will ever be, in the same way that a NFL player is better at football then they will ever be. They need to understand that Pro's aren't just a dude who plays video games a lot, but is a combination of 8+ hours a day of training as well as intellect and natural talent. That Us, who follow TL and play SC2, are just the beer league of SC2, we are just the Tag football equivalent of the NFL. We suck. And because we suck and Pro's are so mind bogglingly good, it's interesting to watch. That's why I watch a tournament, to see play I will never be able to do.
On December 30 2011 22:04 Iselian wrote: Guys, this has all been fantastic. Please keep it coming! I need to rest for a bit, but I'll be back later to read all the comments.
Again, thank you for all of this! Keep it coming, in every flavor and description! No wrong answers!
My father actually likes me playing starcraft. What i did was i told him everything about the proscene and all the cool stuff and blabla. Watching sc is something totally different tho and he doesn't like to watch it although he likes sc in general. I dont think you can expect your parents to watch it, but u can expect them to understand the whole thing around sc and that it isn't just an ordinary game.
The previous generation didn't have the opportunity to see how big and serious games has inputted into society. Don't push your luck, it'll be very hard to convince.
This just means in the future (Our current generation) we'll understand and thus even make games a very very serious thing even next to sports
Heh, I played Brood War with my dad for several years, and he plays SC2 as well. I've shown him quite a bit about esports in both SC1 and SC2 and although he's not into it on his own, if there's something really big going on, I'll tell him about it, and sometimes he'll watch. He's 55, so I'm quite sure you don't need super young parents to get them to understand esports.
Focusing on TvT only is a mistake in my opinion. Part of the beauty of starcraft is that the races are not the same.
When I describe the game to my friends, like most people I use the chess analogy with constant moves, but you also have to balance advancing your economy, tech, and army. When it comes to the races, I explain to my friends that it is basically, Aliens vs Predators vs Marines.
Zerg: Aliens, the ultimate in biological evolution, acid spit, bone scythes, chitanous plating, etc. Protoss: Predators, the ultimate in technological evolution, psi blades/storm, plasma shields, etc. Terran: The Grizzled Space Marines.
I've tried to explain it to my father, who is fairly open-minded, and he just says: "you can't convince me otherwise that video games are a complete waste of time and are ridiculous". That's it, I guess.
"it's like chess with laser beams" "oh, it's also a national sport in asian countries"
talking about the nuances of the game is the worst thing you can do
occassionally some people will be impressed by the idea of APM, but you don't need to explain why, just explain that the best players click 300+ times a minute
Don't bother, it's generally a waste of time. I've tried to convince my parents for years, showed them endless videos, gave them endless reasonings, they still don't get it. Just play it because you enjoy it.
1. Dont make your introduction based on 1 game, its boooooring. Even if the game itself is great people need to understand sc2 to get its beauty. 2. Explain things that make sc2 games so complicated. Start off with resource system and mining, show how different races have unique ways of boosting mining. Once it is done show how rushes prevent you from getting too greedy. Show how a rush punishes a greedy player and how the same rush fails against someone who gets just enough forces to defend it while being ahead in eco. Show how 2 armies of exact costs can result in totally different outcomes: ie countering. Show how the same army can counter 1 composition and lose heavily vs the other one. Show parts of the game where a player scouts his opponens and goes for a perfect counter. Show parts of the game where good harrasing allows a player with weaker army to deal some damage and buy time to mass and eco up. Show the importance of micro (kiting, banshee control, simultaneous drops and attacks). Show how terrain influences combat (show how force fields shine to cut the opponent army). Show the importance of mobility and map control (is one is tricky though).
On December 30 2011 22:52 Zanno wrote: "it's like chess with laser beams" "oh, it's also a national sport in asian countries"
talking about the nuances of the game is the worst thing you can do
occassionally some people will be impressed by the idea of APM, but you don't need to explain why, just explain that the best players click 300+ times a minute
You forgot the best reason: some of the best players earn more than $100 000 a year.
On December 30 2011 22:52 Zanno wrote: "it's like chess with laser beams" "oh, it's also a national sport in asian countries"
talking about the nuances of the game is the worst thing you can do
occassionally some people will be impressed by the idea of APM, but you don't need to explain why, just explain that the best players click 300+ times a minute
I'm going to mostly go with this.
If you want them to understand what's in a game, just explain the most basic premise: Two players collect resources in order to build buildings to make armies to kill the other player. Past that, I think you really have to watch stuff to "get" it. Choose a good set of games with lots of non-technical interest (I think Puma v MC finals might be pretty good, it doesn't have to be up to date) where you can point out things that don't understand a great understanding of the game to enjoy - drops, sneaky moves, tech snipes, last-second-saves, that sort of thing - those are the exciting things that require little explaining and make someone want to learn more. The key here is, you are never going to teach someone StarCraft if they're not interested, so the primary aim in teaching them should be to make them excited about the game. You can't expect to be able to say "Hey, this is really cool, let me explain things to you for half an hour and then you'll 'get it' and love it!"
If you want to say "It's a big deal, honest!" then you can mention prize money, pro houses, major sponsors, viewership numbers, international events, celebrity pros, that sort of thing.
If you want to show that it takes a good amount of skill, you can mention APM (very simple to understand metric which will blow your average one-finger-typist-mother away) and say that it is a very basic physical representation of the skill required, while the mental side is far harder. "Chess sped up" is a basic way of saying it - call it "war with you controlling absolutely everything on the battlefield and at home, making every decision, including scientific research, troop movement, resource collection and assignment, etc." if you want, too.
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
The future sounds awesome.
You are so wrong. We will be like, shut up kid SC3 is a terrible game, SC2 was the real deal.
Shut up kid, SC2 is a terrible game, Dune was the real deal!
EDIT: To add something ontopic: My mother completly understands. She is south korean though. ;P To my father(and to my friends who don't know about RTS-Games [shame on them!]) i often describe Starcraft as "playing chess while playing the piano at the same time and having someone randomly exchanging music sheets."
My dad introduced StarCraft to me when I was less than 8 years old. My mum thinks its good, she watches me play every now and then but she doesn't really get it, have yet to sit down with her and watch GSL because she's always so busy.
Unless your parents played a lot of video games in "their day" then there is no hope for them. I try to keep everything I like AWAY from my parents as much as possible lol. Why would I want my parents to like something that I like? Can you imagine parents liking video games and anime? I cant.
It's kinda like playing Mario party. With a caveat, you can play all of the minigames at the same time, and sometimes you HAVE to play all of the minigames at the same time, but there are certain timings where playing certain minigames gets you many more points... but playing certain minigames at the wrong timings can lose you points. All of this must be done while playing Cherry Pie on guitar hero... if you mess up on guitar hero you lose the opportunity to play minigames... which is bad because you lose the chance to get points. All this while playing your Cherry Pie as an improvisational duet to the other person who's playing the game... doing the same thing. If either you or the other person gets a bit too far ahead of the other in points, the person with higher points wins.
Guitar Hero is Macro/scouting. Minigames are Micro/Engagements/Teching. Choosing/the ability to choose to play minigame(s) are decision making that is held back by Guitar Hero success (good macro/good scouting).
Mega confusing, but when put slowly it works. That's how I explain SC2 to my friends.
The minimap is in my opinion an essential thing to explain so they are more or less aware of what they're seeing at a specific time on the screen and the fact that somewhere else on the map, other things are happening. This kind of spacio-temporal awareness is in my opinion very important to understand for someone who does not know the game and seems to not "figure out what's going on", like someone said about his parents.
On December 30 2011 23:40 goodistar wrote: The minimap is in my opinion an essential thing to explain so they are more or less aware of what they're seeing at a specific time on the screen and the fact that somewhere else on the map, other things are happening. This kind of spacio-temporal awareness is in my opinion very important to understand for someone who does not know the game and seems to not "figure out what's going on", like someone said about his parents.
oh yeah, spacio-temporal awareness is very exciting
"It's like a chess, except you have to make your own pieces first, and who makes them faster and uses them better - wins. You have to click shit fast with mouse and keyboard and think about your strategy at the same time."
That's how i explain it to people who have no fucking clue about RTS.
I wouldn't start with a TvT, I would try to show as many races as possible. Steppes of War is a good map though, there's less scrolling between bases and action happens quite often.
I hope Day9 will do the video he promised. He was asked in his reddit AMA whether he could make an introducing video for anybody who is new to sc2. is someone here who can remember him?
its just a game like every other game in the universe and for someone who does not play games you can not explain to them why this game is for you and many others the best game
I assume that in bw days nobody praised the game like now because they did not know what a bad/different version of the game is.
so you can not explain why this is a good game because they do not know what a bad game is.
but you can tell them.that this game means alot to you and when they are good parents they will support your hobby/or that what you like.
On December 30 2011 21:44 Azera wrote: Ok then what you do is you ask your parents if a game can make a grown man cry. They will probably say no. You then show them a bit of Day[9] daily #100. Your parents will be like ,"wtf why is he crying when talking about his history with the starcraft omg." You then explain more about Day[9] or let them watch more. Your parents will then be like ,"wtf omg thats so touching, his brother and mom, all so supportive on him and back at that time im sure esports was very small omg. we're going to go cry in our room now clearly this game means alot to you. oh no, i wont call it a game, i will call it your passion. you love starcraft son, we understand."
posting in bold actually makes me ignore your posts
"There have been many games that people have invented that have turned into a worldwide competitive sport through a grassroots movement and lots of support from fans in the past. Their names are Tennis, Baseball, Basketball, American Football, Soccer (football), Poker, Billiards, and so on... Now there is yet another player in the game of spectator sports, and that sport is Starcraft 2." Something starting off like that. :D
What I did for my family and some coworkers was show them the crowds at events, prize money, the APM video by razer, whatever. Just showed them the entertaining side without them knowing anything about the game, and then they wanted to know more.
My parents are so old fashioned! I didn't even have any video games whatsoever until I got a job, even then I had sneak it past them. Anyway, I tried showing them brood war and they called it "a sport for pussies" it was stupid. Then I tried showing them the awesomeness that was Tastosis and they still think its stupid. Oh well
"We are more than stereotypes. We are adventurers and doctors, engineers and entrepreneurs, journalists and lawyers, scientists and students. We are smart, ambitious, and competitive. We are gamers.
We believe society has forgotten how to play.
Play keeps us sane in our daily lives. Play keeps us curious, imaginative and directed. It teaches us to learn from our mistakes, to constantly improve, and to stride forward – battling through failures on our road to success.
Play develops relationships and communities. We have fond memories of growing up playing games with our friends and siblings. The gaming experience bonds us together now, as it bonded us then. We discover friends, partners, and spouses while gaming. We game with our children. We transcend international borders when we play.
We believe that our game, StarCraft, is the chess of our generation. StarCraft requires the dexterity of a pianist, the mind of a chess grandmaster, and the discipline of an Olympic trainee. We believe that our game, StarCraft, is as dynamic and exciting a spectator sport as any other. We fill auditoriums to cheer on our favorite gamers. Most of all, we believe our game, StarCraft, is a beautiful platform for play. Whether you’re a veteran, a newbie, male, female, a parent, a student, or a total nongamer, you too can join in the fun.
Our community is smart, supportive, funny, irreverent, international, insightful, and intolerant of bullsh*t.
I tried explaining it several times to my parents. The first time they took it seriously was when I explained the fact that this is an industry with serious money and real salaries. I told them how Destiny quit his job because he made more money streaming, and how the NASL had a $50,000 grand prize, all for this 'game'. Then it was easier to explained how (to play) money wad made.
Hey mom, StarCraft 2 is like a pest exterminator trying to cleanse a house. There are many types of bugs in there and not all pesticides works. Some bugs are immune against those pesticides while others die very fast to it. Therefore, the pest exterminator have to select the correct type of pesticide to deal with those bugs in the house. However, theres a twist to it. Those bugs might be poisonous and might attack the pest exterminator. Furthermore, different types of bugs have different types of attacks, making the pest exterminator needing to change into many types of protective armor to prevent those bugs from attacking him. Either the pest exterminator win or the bugs win. Get it?
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
The future sounds awesome.
You are so wrong. We will be like, shut up kid SC3 is a terrible game, SC2 was the real deal.
I'll be all like Back in my day, workers used to bring in EIGHT minerals. Now the lazy generation has emphasized, and workers only bring in five minerals now. Stalkers? HA! Dragoons were the true Protoss warriors.
On December 30 2011 20:53 Chaosvuistje wrote: It's kinda like the yelling you guys do to eachother, but over the internet and without getting other people involved in it.... ;_; .
I really don't bother explaining it to my parents. I've tried once, saying that it was similar to playing risk or chess, but they just dismiss it as sitting behind a computer screen. And other people sitting behind it watching someone else waste their lives away -_- . It's pretty much a lost cause in my case, I'd rather pay attention to the current generation rather than the previous one.
My thoughts exactly. Which is weird of me to say, because my father has expressed interest in the game from time to time. I even have linked him to the daily 100. Idk if he watched the whole thing though, I'm pretty sure he maybe watched the first 5 min or skimmed thru it which I guess is fine because it's 2 hrs long. As a business student, I tried to explain esports to him and validate it as the next big thing (which i wholeheartedly believe it is); and tried to put into perspective the size and scope of some of the major tournies; and that some players are making huge salaries etc.
He just could not see it under the same light. I mean, I think he recognizes my passion but does not necessarily think that it's the best use of my time.
He overheard me telling my friend that I got promoted a few months back, and he told me that he was happy i got promoted so I can finally stop playing the game "since now I mastered it."
He still looks at it as some game that once you beat, you move on to something else. I gave up trying to validate esports to him after that..
Not even worth trying to explain it to my mom. If every second is not spent either studying, making resumes, and applying to jobs it is a waste of time in her eyes ^.^
My dad introduced StarCraft to me when I was less than 8 years old. My mum thinks its good, she watches me play every now and then but she doesn't really get it, have yet to sit down with her and watch GSL because she's always so busy.
Okay this is fucking awesome. If I was in your position, I would very much try to teach my mom. Seems like she would enjoy that If she expresses interest in enjoying the spectator aspect of the game, it is much more enjoyable if you know what is going on.
Explain the key elements of the game in a manner that parents understand.
Trying to make them understand that SC2 which may be sidelined in their minds as a "video-game" actually plays a lot like speed chess with great hand/eye coordination and fast reflexes. If you have professional chess players, then we have professional starcraft 2 players. Top players earn along the likes of $250,000 per year - sc2earnings.com only from tournaments. Sponsorship revenue is not included in that.
i think the issue I have with explaining sc2 to other people is not the game itself, but as to why it's entertaining to watch. I usually compare it to sports and people have trouble trying to refute why sports are not that much different.
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
The future sounds awesome.
Imagine if you didnt said to kid anything about your gaming past and tell him "sit down, lets try 1v1" and roflstomp him as hell. That would be cool. And for each loss he must be a living table for your legs and beer. God I would like kid now
On more than one occasion I had to explain to people with no knowledge of computers, or video game strategy, that is SC2. The way I try to make is the following:
- A strategy game like chess, only that there are no turns, players play simultaneously (or in real time). Note that the game is framed in a sci-fi / futuristic.
- The game is basically to collect some resources with which to build things, whether buildings, units for your army, or improvements to it. The player who destroys the opponent's base first is the winner.
- The units perform different roles. Some are weak and fast, others are heavy and strong, some are terrestrial, others are aircraft ... etc, etc.
- If we were to put it simply, the fastest player to gather resources and invest better, have the best army and thus win his rival. But there are many factors that influence the battle. The topography of the map, the composition of armies (units), and because it is a strategy game is very important position on the map, know when to attack, knowing how to defend, and generally know how to move with the troops the best way possible.
- For the game has more variety and more interesting, the creators have split the game on 3 different factions. Thus the strategy and gameplay changes depending on facing sides. By having different types of units, buildings and modes of gameplay ... each faction enters more or less in a particular style of play.
- The three factions are: Terran: the human race, Protoss, technologically advanced aliens, and Zerg, other insect-like alien / bug, totally focused on brute force rather than technology.
That at least would be the first lesson. From here, if interested, could expand more concepts in a second lesson :D.
Economic game in which at any moment you choose between increasing your income (by expanding), your quality (by teching), or your quantity (by building army). That creates various combinations of situations and timings. Don't forget to emphasize tech-trees - to build more and more complex and powerful units, you need to build specific buildings, which in turn unlock even more advanced buildings and units.
I would use analogy to modification of chess - in which you start with only pawns which generate income the more they are, and any other pieces you have to unlock and pay for, with your income. So you could make even more pawns and increase your total income, or just get a massive army of Knights and attack asap, or unlock the usage of Bishops/Rooks and then attack with more advanced (but smaller) army.
I don't think you are explaining it the proper way. I wouldn't introduce you to hockey by explaining the breakout, regroup and offensive zone set up. I would show you the amazing goals and all the really exciting stuff and tell you why it is so exciting. This makes it fun first. Then as you watch more I would go into the details, starting broad and becoming more narrow as you understand more as you continue to watch more hockey.
Naturally, people like to watch stuff they find excting. I would first focus on the exciting stuff and then as they watch and start to ask questions, then introduce stuff about economy, army composition, micro, etc.
If you explain it with all the details first, no one will become interested because it sounds boring. I also would start with TvZ if you like Terran because TvT is long and boring to watch unless you like seeing tanks unsiege and siege.
Any comparison to chess is a bad idea... really for technologically dis-inclined parents, any technical explaination will never work. Big army vs bigger army. You need money for army. Keep it simple, stupid. You're dealing with Apple's demographic afterall.
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
The future sounds awesome.
You are so wrong. We will be like, shut up kid SC3 is a terrible game, SC2 was the real deal.
LOL here's a conversation I had with my dad:
me: yo dad, have you watched the GSLs? dad: yeah, i watched the open seasons, and sc2 is just bad terrans cheesing, sc1 is the real deal
Thankfully, he started watching the Code S seasons, and he thinks they're ok.
On December 31 2011 02:12 Ownos wrote: Any comparison to chess is a bad idea... really for technologically dis-inclined parents, any technical explaination will never work. Big army vs bigger army. You need money for army. Keep it simple, stupid. You're dealing with Apple's demographic afterall.
And they would want to watch this because? Where's the challenge, where's the intrigue, what makes this so interesting?
to quote the OP: "in hopes of getting them to watch it as fervently as they would watch their favorite athletic sport"
Well, the best way to explain the races to them would be to tell them that the Zerg are based of Alien and the Protoss Predators and the Terran Humans. Both true and something they could relate to. As for getting them into, thats probably tougher. Having them see you play is probably best, or watching you watch a stream. My sister only knows about starcraft from listening to me go on and on about it and from watching me play or watch streams. So every now and then she'll be watching a stream and be like "wow, they move really fast" or watch me jumping through my hotkeys to inject and be like "I'm getting dizzy". Or when she saw me scouting on Metalopolis, she said "this level is really cool looking" or something like that. And thats with me playing on lowest graphics settings.
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
The future sounds awesome.
You are so wrong. We will be like, shut up kid SC3 is a terrible game, SC2 was the real deal.
Well I guess there are always nostalgics If they make a good job at SC3, if they even make it, people should judge it by the game itself
Some people were even like >> I loved Oblivion, but Skyrim was a huge dissapointment << This happens if you have too high expectations
I definetley would love the starcraft series to go on
It is a game you play against other people ! Oh you play with real people ?! how suprising go on, we approve.
So simply mention other real people and you explaind the main point they want to hear about. Don't expect your parents to watch mental sports, that will only happen if they play the same.
Imo I think the best description I've ever heard, and the one I used to describe it to my Dad is that its like Chess in real time, but it not only requires thinking ahead, but also requires that you translate that thinking into fast keystrokes and mouse movements.
Try to get your parents to watch the Day 9 Daily #100, mine got a little understanding of it from there, shows the competitive side quite well also. Also the "1 Year of Starcraft" Video is good also, showcases a bunch of tournaments!
I don't know how this hasn't been posted in this thread yet, but basically if you turn this image in to a video, you're set. http://i.imgur.com/2GGmp.jpg
On December 31 2011 02:41 Siphonn wrote: Try to get your parents to watch the Day 9 Daily #100, mine got a little understanding of it from there, shows the competitive side quite well also. Also the "1 Year of Starcraft" Video is good also, showcases a bunch of tournaments!
I think the significance of this is that you're letting your parents know this is something truly important to you, and not just a passing fad you're a part of. Tell your parents how much SC2 means to you, and that you'd like them to be a part of it with you, even if it's just them watching the occasional tournament with you.
If you are very good at describing what you're doing and why, it may be worth while to ask them watch you play a few ladder games and actively explain what you're doing. Answer any questions they may have, even if it's as simple as "Why did you do that?" The things that seem completely obvious to you may not make any sense to them.
I don't think that you should bother, you can't force someone into something. For instance my friend is a big tennis fanatic, and if he wanted to watch some tennis tournament with me then I just wouldn't be interested in it because I just do not like the sport.
Take the game littlebigplanet it is actually a good game but because the game has cartoon graphics people quickly label it as a kiddy game. If your parents simply label SC2 as a child's game then you will have great difficulty getting them interested in it.
Imo you're taking the wrong direction if you are going to talk about bonus damage and unit types. Most low level players don't care Bout that even. Many are even unawares as I was until recently.
Your goal is a good one but I believe first you must have understanding to have appreciation. To understand the game at a high level is not difficult. In two words, economy management. Or money instead of economy. The easiest way to have them understand is to relate it to something they already understand. Budgets. Explain that from the first second of the game you're trying to build economy so later you can support your army when it will inevitably be reduced in size through engagements. If you miss an scv the first second (or any thereafter) you simply cannot ever get that back. Once the basic concept is understood, which should be easy for anyone whose halfway intelligent to understand. Next would be to understand where the skill comes in, which is in mechanics/execution and of course the big one, decision making.
Good luck though I've got a very smart friend who completely understands all of the concepts and intricacies of an RTS, he even played command and conquer. He simply doesnt care about starcraft, different people have differant interests and priorities. I'm a firm believer in letting people believe what they want. For example I hate (i rarely use the word) people who try to instill their religious ideas on others.
I know this post kind of jumps around, but my point was to simply show a diff perspective. Good luck!
On December 31 2011 02:44 spbelky wrote: I don't know how this hasn't been posted in this thread yet, but basically if you turn this image in to a video, you're set. http://i.imgur.com/2GGmp.jpg
Or this. This is good. Again just don't assume that understanding leads directly to appreciation. I believe some understanding is required for appreciation but they won't necessarily care just because they get it.
If I were to describe SC2 to my parents? There exists a chess variant which has been around since the the 19th Century, called Kriegspiel:
- 2 player game - each player sits on the floor, back to back - each has his own board and pieces and cannot see those of his opponent - moderator informs them if a move they want to make is legal or illegal
There you go. That's the board game version of SC2 - has fog of war, you don't know what your opponent is doing, and apparently is scary as hell to play.
Fun fact: The late Steve Jobs used to play this when he was a young adult, back in the 1970's.
I think the best definition is that Starcraft is a futuristic war game. Opposing sides gather resources, build armies, research technology, and attack each other. You win by destroying all of your opponents buildings.
I think its a bad idea to go deeper than that. Using "game terminology" like races, units, scouting, drops, etc. is just going to make people tune out.
Some people will just be so discriminating it won't matter how you explain it. I tried comparing MLG to PGA once to my parents. But they completely disregarded it because "real sports" are physically and socially healthy activities, while everything that has to do with videogames is anti-social and anti-health.
Thus far, I'm focusing on a simple TvT for simplicity's sake, on a basic map (Steppes of War), highlighting the gathering of resources to fund an army.
From there, I'll break it into ground units, flying units, and bonuses versus unit types. After that, I have no idea. Again, all Terran-based for now; I figure it's the easiest to relate to and understand, off the bat.
Alright, this seems like too much already.
The details are what make the game distinct, so if you can keep the concepts simple you can draw more parallels and help people to associate it with other activities they might know. You shouldn't worry so much about the overall mechanics of the game when trying to get people to understand the competitive scene (from the spectator perspective). You need to address it like, "A game of Starcraft is like a game of football (American). Each person builds up their army while trying to get ahead and score 'touchdowns' in the form of drops or scouting or general aggression. Games can either be really one sided, or they can be really close, like, 21 to 24 and the losing team only has one more drive to tie it up or win it, while the winning team has to hang strong for these final minutes or find a way to turn the plays towards their favor. And a series isn't just 1 game… it's at least 2-4 games and sometimes more ;D "
It's not the most well thought out comparison/explination out there, because I'm just writing in a stream of conciousness, but I hope you can understand the direction I'm coming from. I don't think you need a long video that talks about the finer points of the game, instead you should try to capture the feeling, the emotion, the energy that comes from the live events, the casters, and the story lines between players and team. Those are what draws people into the community and the eSport, and gets people hooked.
EDIT: an additional point after reading some more posts on the thread. I don't think that the chess comparison really does the subject justice. I think it's great for getting a broad overview of the game, but when you start an explanation with, "well… take the game of chess…." Chess, despite being a good game, has a bad rep with its perceived entertainment value. I still think a comparison to a more high energy activity with a passionate following is better, because that's what the eSports community is, high energy and passionate c: c: c:
The details are what make the game distinct, so if you can keep the concepts simple you can draw more parallels and help people to associate it with other activities they might know
This is pretty much it. I dont know, but maybe you can find or create a vid that shows how awesome those 3 races are. You have a biotic metamorphing race, a human race, and a technologic advanced race.
About the matches: Make it look cool. Show other people which show emotions, cheering for their favorite player. how sheer awesome this is. Then start with the basics. You have workers that collect resources. Resources are used to build units. Show them how fast those players react. take a Protoss for example, with moving his army and placing force fields at nearly the same time.
If they are interested they will start to ask questions from their own. From this point it is up to you how good you can explain it. And you dont need to go into detail from the very moment on. This is too much information.
Or just look for a replay, or a stream with a good caster who can explain the game very accurate mixing easy descriptions with the technical terms. Like any good sports commentator would do.
To give an example: I am a german student and not very interested in american football. But i see and hear about the hype around it, especially when the Super Bowl is about to take place. So i watched this final match one day. i did not understand anything. At first it was just 2 teams with many people stacking onto each other while the fast ones try to bring an egg as fast as they can to the other side of the field And after that they shoot the egg? What the hell ?. So i watched it. and it got more interesting the more i understood the rules little by little from listening to the commentator. Like, when are they allowed to kick the ball, how many yard(?) the teams have to advance to not loose the ball posession, and so on. But the first thing that made me continue watching that match was the atmosphere.
Anyone born from 1958-1968 has a hard time coping with anything to do with electricity fun. If its not Going outside or doing somthing with friends your wrong. I live on my computer, i go to work, sleep with my wife, do all the things i need to, but i still spend 5+hours a day on computer. Parents and inlawns think its all a waste of time im just playing, but theres reddit google, lots of world news, and mabyye after i get through all that i do some shopping or pay swtor or sc2. Somtimes ill post on a fourm.
I guess my point is that do not let that generation tell you that playing video games and being on the computer is a waste of time. If they tell you to go outside and get a life, (which is what i get) just give them the finger and tell them to run their own lives. My life is internet and social media. I meet more people, interact with more things on the computer in 1 day that i could in 2 years. Oh and if u say, well your not face to face talking seeing their facing feeling their emotions as they speak? I have skype and a sick webcam. Herp derp. Done.
So to anyone with parents relitives or wifes telling them that your computer time is a waste of time, Look at them and tell them to mind their own fucking business and get the fuck out
My parents never understood why I don't like being bothered when playing sc2. Eventually I sat my dad, who plays golf, down and said "You know how nice it is to get a Birdie on a par 3? Well, When I play sc2 in the morning, I am gunning for that Birdie. I want to start my day off with one coz it puts me in a good mood. When I am talked to while playing, its like duffing a shot. Its recoverable, but you are putting yourself behind for extra work later. That's why i ask you to not talk to me when I play"
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
The future sounds awesome.
You are so wrong. We will be like, shut up kid SC3 is a terrible game, SC2 was the real deal.
or we're gonna be like "kid i'll beat you mouse only at this shit" and then your kid is gonna be like "DAD your so outdated, we dont play with mice anymore , we control everything with our brain lol - its just like chess but without the physical work"
On December 31 2011 03:21 RoboBob wrote: I think the best definition is that Starcraft is a futuristic war game. Opposing sides gather resources, build armies, research technology, and attack each other. You win by destroying all of your opponents buildings.
I think its a bad idea to go deeper than that. Using "game terminology" like races, units, scouting, drops, etc. is just going to make people tune out.
Some people will just be so discriminating it won't matter how you explain it. I tried comparing MLG to PGA once to my parents. But they completely disregarded it because "real sports" are physically and socially healthy activities, while everything that has to do with videogames is anti-social and anti-health.
this would be a horrible way to introduce a game to anyone even i wouldnt be interested after a description like that
i think its best to talk about the people playing it and the huge competition with it thats what make sc2 so interesting and different from most other games and thats exactly what you want to show your parents imo
after you made them interested you explain that there are 3 races battling and show them a video of some great mlg game
My dad/mom play poker ( my dad also played RTS with his friends/me a Whileeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ago ,but it was really nothing close to competitively, just herp derping to last tier units and what not ) so i explained to them the sc2 pro games being like a mix of poker and chess ( aka tactics, meta game, luck, being able to think fast enough )on top of which you also need hand speed. Nor my mom or my dad are interested in it and i never tried to "get them into it".
On December 30 2011 21:11 Drorctopus wrote: I think you should explain in otherwise. You want them to watch first and then explain while they are watching. Show a part of dreamhack when HerO won. So they can see the passion of the people involved in this game .
I think that's really bad, the first thought they'll have is "what a bunch of weirdos, getting crazy over a videogame". If you can prove to them that the core concepts and mechanics are interesting and that mastering those mechanics is something not everyone is capable of, then you can pretty much show them anything about the game. It's like with every other sport: if your parents don't know the first thing about soccer, they don't care whether the people are going crazy over the game or not. For them to be invested in soccer they need to understand, and more importantly, appreciate the skills needed to play soccer well, so that they can identify and be impressed with great plays.
This is the best picture I've ever seen explaining it. Sadly I forgot who to credit it to: Edit: Ninja'd on page 6. And no this shouldn't be in a spoiler i want OP to see this cuz i really don't think you should explain in depth..
Use the hook line and sinker approach. Start by showing footage of audience shots of huge tournaments, such as Blizzcon, GSL finals, Dreamhack, or MLG. Maybe even use BW footage if need be. This will get them curious and interested in what is going on with all the excitement and action. Then show them that all of this is for a video game.
This is how I do it: "Ok so theres 3 groups, Humans, Advanced aliens, and insect-like aliens. I'm a general who has doods mine stuff to buy troops to kill the other guy. "
It might help if you point out the cognitive processes involved in high level starcraft, such as multitask, snap decisions, deducing possible strategies from limited information, etc.
Also that to improve at starcraft, one must take a scientific/methodical approach to practice, as well as a creative/lateral thinking approach to problem solving.
The way I described it and it seemed to work, was an analogy comparing it to chess. IMO it is very similar except played on different types of media obviously. My parents were very supportive of my brother and I play chess, so this seemed to be the best route for me!
On December 31 2011 04:57 _-NoMaN-_ wrote: It might help if you point out the cognitive processes involved in high level starcraft, such as multitask, snap decisions, deducing possible strategies from limited information, etc.
Also that to improve at starcraft, one must take a scientific/methodical approach to practice, as well as a creative/lateral thinking approach to problem solving.
Very important points in this post. It's too easy for uninformed people to see a video game and associate it with sitting in a recliner and drooling on yourself as you mindlessly grind "your guy" up to level whatever; or yelling at some kid through your tv because he took the sniper rifle >.>
I think we put SC2 on a pedestal. And that's where it should be.
Unless they're actually interested in sitting down and watching or learning about a race, there's really not much more you need to say then "It's a game that you play online against other people, where you each collect resources, build bases and armies, and try to kill one another." That's easy to understand without making them wonder what the fuck an ultralisk is.
If they want to know a bit more, you can tell them that there are three very different races you can pick to play as- a human race, an insect race, and a robot race. (Because, seriously, your parents aren't going to remember Terran or Zerg or Protoss, but they know what humans, insects, and robots are, and it's close enough for them.) You can tell them that there's a pretty big tournament scene and that some people make a living playing StarCraft I and II (especially in South Korea) too. But that's about it for that level of understanding.
If they're interested in watching something (the next level, in my opinion), find some sort of hype video with awesome shit that can capture their attention. Actually, just show them this: + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A-s-MJ2Leo
But if you want your girlfriend to learn how amazing StarCraft is... sit her ass down and make her watch Day[9] Daily #100 ♥ (My girlfriend appreciated it. Then she went to a barcraft and IPL3 with me. We also bought SC1 and SC2 for her ^^)
My mother always supported my competitive play when I played on console for MLG OPCLs so she gets the basic background of eSports.
She enjoys watching Day[9] because 'He's an adorable nerd'. HuK and MC are her favorite players and she's watched multiple GSL games, Dreamhack Finals (Winter and Summer), and usually watches MLGs during their live broadcasts. It's also nice how she actually understands some basic things in the game, such as macro and micro.
I think if you get a parent into eSports, they'll support it if you do it right. When I played on console, my parents saw how money came in through playing a simple video game and were interested ever since.
My Dad has seen a few games from MLG and generally understands now why it is watched by so many people; he looked generally engaged by the matches and commentary, even though he didn't understand much. He said it is fairly easy to follow if you like sport in general and I told him, "The guy with the lowest food is generally behind" and it was enough to give him some sense of who was winning or losing.
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
The future sounds awesome.
well.... sc3 is to early for the most of us having sc3 playing kids, imagine sc3 comes in 15 years, you must be father NOW so you have a playing kid ^^
I've explained the basic idea of the game to my parents and my dad was pretty impressed by the amount of money top pros earn as well as the number or viewers big tournaments get. My mom doesn't care about it whatsoever and she would rather me not play it at all
Always start with apm. Almost everyone can appreciate the speed needed to have 400 apm and over 250eapm. I generally say not only can they do 250eapm they can also think of 250eapm to do each minute. That generally gets people somewhat interested.
I'd say go for the human angle instead of going for the game angle. Some people like their sports and games for the strategy but many like them for the people. The players, the rivalries, the personalities, the struggles, the joy of winning and sadness from defeat. So if you're going to make a video to sell them Starcraft 2, it'd be good to know first what is it they'd find interesting from it. I figure it'd be easier for them to understand and find themselves empathetic to young men, maybe coming from humble beginnings (Fruitdealer) having successful careers in gaming, to large crowds cheering them on, to casters getting excited and screaming player's names (NESTEEEAAAAA!!!) than they would to strategy, unit composition, damage types or 3D units massacring other units to bits.
I played SC2 without much interest in streaming or tournaments for quite a while, until I watched the TSL 3. Playing terran, I rooted for the terran players, with Boxer being the only name I knew on that tournament, but soon, ThorZAin's playstyle and constant "underdog" status made me enjoy that tournament so much. Without the whole "coming out of nowhere beating famous names" angle, I wouldn't have been as hooked to the TSL as I was. I think you'll have an easier time selling the pro scene from a human angle, with names, faces, personalities and stories behind it than you would explaining the game. SC2 is quite complex for the uninitiated, specially if they don't see gaming with any sort of passion. If you kindle the passion and interest on the people first you might find them asking you to explain what's going on in the game later. Then they'll listen, instead of just pretending they're listening to you rave about "macro", "timings" or "pushes".
My sister watches the Soccer World Cup tournament with us because she liked some of the players looks and their legs with skimpy shorts. No clue about the rules of soccer whatsoever, but hey, we were reunited as family and she liked that. If you want to "sell" your parents the concept of liking Starcraft 2, you'll have to find out what is it they like about their hobbies (like Football) so much, then extrapolate it to SC2. What you like and makes you enjoy the game so much might bore them to death. Figure your pitch out based on what you think they'll enjoy, not on what you enjoy.
Wish you luck on your endeavors. I could never get my wife to like the game so you should also be open to the possibility they might hate the game, no matter how you pitch it.
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
The future sounds awesome.
You are so wrong. We will be like, shut up kid SC3 is a terrible game, SC2 was the real deal.
My parent still thinks that games are like time-wasting childish thing, and I think 90% of people over 30+ years think that way, I think it will take a lot of time, generation change, when we will be 40+ than maybe gaming will be take more serious.
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
The future sounds awesome.
You are so wrong. We will be like, shut up kid SC3 is a terrible game, SC2 was the real deal.
What I've noticed through my own experiences is that non-gamers have a hard time putting context to the action. Namely, you have to make the connection between the mini-map and the real in game view for them. Remember that they don't meticulously (and unconsciously) gaze at the mini-map every "x" seconds.
I think the premise of gathering resources to fund an army is pretty simple to understand, but you have to lay the foundation of "the proper ways to spectate" for them, which should add meaning to the game.
When I explained StarCraft II to my parents it came primarily with them asking me questions, however I would recommend starting a game up (that is being casted) from a relevant tournament. Explain certain things that are happening in really specific detail. I described the races as so:
Zerg: Little bug aliens. Protoss: Bigger humanoid aliens. Terran: Humans.
Explain that the point of the game is to build your economy while building your army and to kill your opponent or force him into submission.
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
The future sounds awesome.
With the way Blizzard does stuff SC3 will be around the time most people here have grand kids.
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
The future sounds awesome.
Imagine if you didnt said to kid anything about your gaming past and tell him "sit down, lets try 1v1" and roflstomp him as hell. That would be cool. And for each loss he must be a living table for your legs and beer. God I would like kid now
Having children is the worst mistake you can ever make. They are just money-sinks.
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
The future sounds awesome.
Imagine if you didnt said to kid anything about your gaming past and tell him "sit down, lets try 1v1" and roflstomp him as hell. That would be cool. And for each loss he must be a living table for your legs and beer. God I would like kid now
Having children is the worst mistake you can ever make. They are just money-sinks.
Trolling or something is seriously wrong with you.
High speed chess is probably one of the most common answers. I generally tell people that it's like chess, but you start with nothing and have to build an army, and it's real time instead of turn based. To be honest I'm not a huge fan of watching games, probably because i'm a big fan of timings and unique builds that can be safe, but even if they happen in tournaments, it's never talked about during the game. Understandable, there's a difference between spectators and players.
My Dad luckily got really into the scene after we both went to MLG Providence.Ever since then he's fully supported all my casting, streaming and playing endeavors. It's so great to have that support from a family member, especially an older one. It was funny, when I first got into Starcraft back when MMA killed his own CC and IdrA left anyways, I was cracking SC jokes and telling people about it, and no one understood, now my dad is making "Premature E-Grackulation" jokes and asking questions about Dong Rae Gu. It's never to late to teach an old Dad new tricks!
On December 31 2011 07:39 GleefulPiXie wrote: My Dad luckily got really into the scene after we both went to MLG Providence.Ever since then he's fully supported all my casting, streaming and playing endeavors. It's so great to have that support from a family member, especially an older one. It was funny, when I first got into Starcraft back when MMA killed his own CC and IdrA left anyways, I was cracking SC jokes and telling people about it, and no one understood, now my dad is making "Premature E-Grackulation" jokes and asking questions about Dong Rae Gu. It's never to late to teach an old Dad new tricks!
What do you mean "support" ? Does your dad allow you to do these kinds of activities without having a job or going to school? Does he support you financially for what you want to do or what?
SC2 is like chess in 3d, played out in real time, where you can't see your opponents moves. It has 2 parts: economy and army. Your job is to manage your economy to build pawns, bishops, rooks in a way that will counter your opponent's decision to balance his own pawns, bishops and rooks.
On December 30 2011 21:44 Azera wrote: Ok then what you do is you ask your parents if a game can make a grown man cry. They will probably say no. You then show them a bit of Day[9] daily #100. Your parents will be like ,"wtf why is he crying when talking about his history with the starcraft omg." You then explain more about Day[9] or let them watch more. Your parents will then be like ,"wtf omg thats so touching, his brother and mom, all so supportive on him and back at that time im sure esports was very small omg. we're going to go cry in our room now clearly this game means alot to you. oh no, i wont call it a game, i will call it your passion. you love starcraft son, we understand."
posting in bold actually makes me ignore your posts
On December 30 2011 21:02 cristo1122 wrote: not to be a douche but i wouldnt explain sc2 to my parents (that is my parents specifically) as they are already convinced of the tottal worthlessness of games and anything to do withj it.
Don't forget to state that despite of dexterity and speed, SC2 is a game of the mind. You have to be thinking in several things and at the same time you have to adapt your play to what your opponent does. Everything in a blink of an eye. So every win is you surpassing your opponent both in speed and in inteligence while he try to do the same.
I think the main problem with parents not taking SC seriously is that they don't see just how hard it is.
In their minds they think " How can moving you hands and fingers inches while sitting in a chair be hard at all compared to playing football(american).
This means that they don't realize the level of training and commitment it takes to become great at SC, just like it takes similar training to get good at any other sport.
in short: SC2 is a game where 3 different races wage war for domination and survival in a distant universe a couple of 100 years in the future. A universe where asian and black people are as rare as plausible plot development, where the women have suits that specifically show of their always huge breasts, and where aliens that have been making war machines for many more millenia than humanity still manage get their asses kicked by a bunch of doped up rednecks with guns and a race of overgrown insects that vomit and poop all over the place.
I tried explaining the game to both parents, it's like talking to a wall. I don't blame them though, if I was out there winning local tournys and stuff then maybe they would show interest, but it's just a hobby. Besides, would I want my mother to talk to me about knitting? Nope.
my dad asked me to send him the Nat Geo documentary on SC1/XellOs/Cyber games yesterday. Hopefully it opened his eyes to how big the whole thing is. and he's a geezer, think of a 66 year old SC player :D
I find that the reason parents usually dismiss video games is because they cannot relate to it. As children our parents did physical activities for fun (football, soccer, dancing etc.) and would even, in many cases, shun people who play with technology by calling them nerds and dorks. Today, things are much different, in fact, if you don't have a smart phone or use facebook etc. you are likely to be ridiculed. This culture is far from that of our parents and we have to recognize that changing something that has been ingrained in their brains for their whole life is extremely difficult. If your parents are open minded enough to accept and even participate in SC2 then you are lucky to have such fantastic parents. If your parents do not agree/support gaming then don't feel too bad because your they most likely percieve it differently because of the environment they grew up in.
I just slowly explained to my parents why it was so popular. Pretty much dubbed it "High speed chess". They don't really watch it, but they understand why I play it and actually support the decision making etc. that goes into the game.
I think trying to explain the game using a mirror match up (TvT) even for a first time viewer holds little interest, at least seeing some diversity in Zerg or Protoss shows some depth.
But uh, trying to explain game mechanics is not what gets people's interests or understanding. Honestly I think you're doing it completely wrong. If I was going to try and explain how serious SC2 was, I'd reference the many tournaments, their numbers, the sponsors, show video/screenshots of those events as they look epic, Korea (needs no explanation), the viewers (Streaming) and profits involved and such. Each subject can somewhat gleam naturally off eachother, as you explain how difficult is is to become professional at it and what many pro gamers do (travel overseas, live in pro houses, practice 12 hrs a day).
with an older brother who taught me the world and an understanding mother all I say is "remember command & conquer? just like that except 3 different sides instead of 2" then if they want more: terran- human race Protoss- cool looking aliens Zerg- ugly insects
and if their watching I say the creep or mud is for the ugly aliens
Why try to explain it to them? Just explain it's something that they are not used to nor accustomed to in the culture they grew up in and probably will not understand the entertainment nor excitement behind it.
On December 31 2011 13:38 Fruscainte wrote: Why try to explain it to them? Just explain it's something that they are not used to nor accustomed to in the culture they grew up in and probably will not understand the entertainment nor excitement behind it.
I agree to some extent. It is worth trying at least, but sometimes people are just not open minded or willing to learn about something considered video games have had a long-time stigma of being for children only, or waste of time. Not all of us can have a DJWheat "That's his golf" moment.
I think the best way to do this is to describe StarCraft as a game of resource management. In-game resources, of course, but also time, information, focus, and mentality. Managing those resources is just as important as managing your minerals and Vespene gas.
eh.. no matter how much i explain it and no matter how valid my points are, i never got my dad to get past it being a waste of time. he considers it to be the reason why i havent gone through college. my pops is 53 tho, maybe just too old and hard headed. if your parents understand and support you, by golly thats awesome
but hey its ok, this is just an extremely abnormal generation gap here that has never been experienced before and they cant really possibly understand.
I guess I got lucky cuz my dad is completely into the CnC series, so explaining to him how Starcraft works was pretty easy, just transpose the units and talk about strategy.
Hmm this is not an easy project! I think a footage of the audience at the gsl finals at blizzcon will be necessary! Just the idea of a huge live event and the number of people who take sc2 that seriously
My dad loves it as well, he plays more than I do, usually 5 or so games a night before he goes to bed. We also watch it together, its like our football! We drink beer and watch it on his bigscreen! My wife loves to play too, her and my dad have a rivalry going... (she is silver, he is bronze) I think they have more fun than I do at the game...
Also, I remember telling my mom that Stephano made over $70,000 in tournament wins in just a few months, she was very impressed
My dad has always enjoyed playing video games (mainly RPG's and Battlefied for us 2 to play together), so I told him how amazing this game is (hes a doctor and doesnt have time to really learn and play it to be good) and then I sat him down and played for 2 hours with him asking me questions (I grew up with him training me for chess tournaments so he fully understood strategic stuff) and I would answer, explain macro and micro, decision making, by doing a drop or something here that would allow me to move into position over here, or set a base up there and why I put it there and not somewhere else. So I was very lucky to have a understanding dad, now to get him into the esports aspect, would love to have sunday drinks with my dad on tournament weekends!
I tried to tell my mother what I do (I watched Naniwas stream) about two days ago.
Here a list of stuff that she doesn't believe me/she didn't understand: -Naniwa gets paid for gaming -He probably earns more than she does -He gets free flights all around the world just to compete in tournaments -You can actually live from gaming -People win SHITTONS of money in tournaments -3.000 people were watching his stream -About 10.000-20.000 people watch Idras stream most of the time -Finals ob big tournaments go up to ~100.000 viewers -You don't have to play this game (lol she seriously thought I HAVE TO PLAY IT because I bought it. Because it obviously takes away my free will and human rights xD ) -The stream is live -Naniwa is currently in Korea -South Korea is the kingdom of competitive SC2 gaming -She also thought it's a shooter (even though she saw the game... wtf...) -The webcam is live and that's him -People can sit in front of a screen for 4-8 hours (even though she does the exact same in her job)
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
Every 10 seconds you need to make a worker to make you money and that is multiplied by the amount of bases you have.
About every 20 seconds you need to make attacking units
Every 30 seconds you have to macromanage using racial abilities that increase your production or efficiency
Every second your opponent is trying to end your existence
WPEROWEORWIERP: You use money to make workers
Workers are used to make buildings make you money or scout.
Workers make you more money which you use to make units and expansions
Some races choose between making money or making attacking units.
Throughout the game you try to figure out what your opponent is doing with the least amount of information possible.
With that information you try to either counter their unit composition or abuse their defenses.
Different races are good at different aspects of the game.
the three races are Protoss (aliens) Zerg (Insects) and Terran (hillbillies)
Protoss have the most cost effective units but they build slowly and cost tons of money. Zerg have the least cost efficient units but just like insects they aim to overwhelm your defenses. Terrans are the most aggressive race. They are able to trade cost efficiently early to mid game which allows them to secure a economical advantage.
Different races have different advantages and disadvantages but if played correctly there are ways to compensate for your races deficiency.
You know, I've found that mention the ridiculous amount of money that some people can make at it really legitimizes it in some people's eyes. My wife thought it was a stupid video game, ans was shocked at how much money they can make. Eventually, she saw it as much more legitimate. She's still not interested, but that's because she's never enjoyed those kind of games, not because it's a waste of time or silly.
Oh describing Sc2 for my parents? I'm expert on that!
"So, that guy over there has tanks, and the alien guy can't attack him because tanks will kill his stuff. See those little guys? They are the soldiers, and they shoot FAAAAST, so the alien guy needs to connect the little green blob stuff on them, otherwise he won't be able to kill them.
For the human guy, it's very hard to move on the purple stuff because the alien guy becomes waaay faster there, so he gotta do it slowly. Oh look, he is dropping on his base, which means he transports a little part of his army to attack the guys base directly. Those are mutalisks, they are like flying bat-bird-crow-thingie, and they are fast as hell. They catch the transports so the guy cant drop them. They also can hurt the guy's base like if he was dropping, and become stronger the more there are.
That robot there is the THOR, and he shots missles that hits more than one bird at once, so the alien guy must be careful to not let his bat-bird to clump up.
He is attacking there because he can't let the alien guy get more bases, so he can't get money. Oh and the alien is now killing the human's expansion.
...me? Of course I'm cheering for the alien, humans suck!"
Me and my father is going to South-Korea in the summer, and ive talked him into going to watch gsl, and it seems like he actually is quite exited when i told him that it was actually an production behind it and i guess he knows that people actually watches it as entertainment.
I'd go along the way of "you know chess ? You know tennis ? well this is the same : you train your ass every day, you learn over 9000 strategies and how to apply them, and if you're good enough, you get sponsorized and fight the best to become the best and entertain the viewer. Wanna learn more about the rules and the game itself ? This is the chess aspect, I can explain it to you. Wanna understand how the fuck people can be paid to play videogames ? Well, why the fuck are people being paid to kick a ball with their feet ? Same deal, bro."
Well, I don't exactly speak to my parents with this vocabulary but you get the point.
Starcraft 2 is one of the most complicated Real Time strategy games of all time - you have to gather resources, and then choose where to direct those resources, and, much like the real world, there are primarily three places to invest those resources - back into your economy, into technology, or into standing army.
Investing into your economy yields long term exponential financial growth, while investing into your army increases defensive capabilities. Investing in technology is usually good once you've created a stable foundation of army/economy.
the tricky part of SC2 is that if you invest in economy while your opponent is investing in army, there is a window where he can defeat you since you have not invested your money in an appropriate way to counter his investment - economy X2< economy X1/ army X1. This dynamic makes information very valuable - knowing what your opponent is doing is a fundamental aspect of the game, since certain investments beat other investments.
Sc2 is, I'd say, the most realistic metaphor for war I have encountered in the world, since the Real Time element is very much a part of war in the real world.
"Imagine you're playing chess. Every move you make can make or break the game for you. Now imagine, you have to do two moves a second. Also imagine, the chessboard is not 8*8 spaces, but 100*100 spaces. Also imagine, there aren't 6 but 60 different pieces, each very unique in it's movement and abilities. Also imagine, you can only see the part of the board you occupy.
i tell them 1. its war chess 2. requires 200 actions per minute (not true but hey) 3. people make lots of money at it and lots of people fail trying to (second part is important to mention)
i remember in 98' maybe almost 2000 my dad brought home a big box one day, it looked like a damn cool game at the time. It turned out to be the battle chest for brood war, my father never really played it but he always seen me playing it,
When sc2 was announced he didn't really care for it, hes more like a person u would see playing diablo 2 and that's about it. but never the less when he seen me playing sc2 on ladder he nearly shat his pants. He couldn't believe how fast my fingers were flying on the keyboard compared to typing. And he said to me of all those years of seeing u play this game i never thought it could turn u into a cyborg rofl. now he takes the time to sit down behind me and listen to me brag when i pwn as terran, yes i do scream in joy when my drops work rofl!!!
On January 01 2012 04:20 FlyingToilet wrote: i remember in 98' maybe almost 2000 my dad brought home a big box one day, it looked like a damn cool game at the time. It turned out to be the battle chest for brood war, my father never really played it but he always seen me playing it,
When sc2 was announced he didn't really care for it, hes more like a person u would see playing diablo 2 and that's about it. but never the less when he seen me playing sc2 on ladder he nearly shat his pants. He couldn't believe how fast my fingers were flying on the keyboard compared to typing. And he said to me of all those years of seeing u play this game i never thought it could turn u into a cyborg rofl. now he takes the time to sit down behind me and listen to me brag when i pwn as terran, yes i do scream in joy when my drops work rofl!!!
on the counter side, my dad saw my hands flying really fast over the keyboard and now has the firm assumption that sc2 is only about how fast your hands can move. ive been trying to convince him otherwise but he doesnt really listen because he thinks sc2 is really silly. ive kind of given up trying to introduce him x_x
Would never happen since both my parents hate video games and even TV and think them a waste of life. I actually agree on the TV part - But video games are active entertainment requiring input but they don't buy it.
On January 01 2012 04:20 FlyingToilet wrote: i remember in 98' maybe almost 2000 my dad brought home a big box one day, it looked like a damn cool game at the time. It turned out to be the battle chest for brood war, my father never really played it but he always seen me playing it,
When sc2 was announced he didn't really care for it, hes more like a person u would see playing diablo 2 and that's about it. but never the less when he seen me playing sc2 on ladder he nearly shat his pants. He couldn't believe how fast my fingers were flying on the keyboard compared to typing. And he said to me of all those years of seeing u play this game i never thought it could turn u into a cyborg rofl. now he takes the time to sit down behind me and listen to me brag when i pwn as terran, yes i do scream in joy when my drops work rofl!!!
on the counter side, my dad saw my hands flying really fast over the keyboard and now has the firm assumption that sc2 is only about how fast your hands can move. ive been trying to convince him otherwise but he doesnt really listen because he thinks sc2 is really silly. ive kind of given up trying to introduce him x_x
Same... it's really sad that they can't appreciate it past what they see us doing. My dad says I'm in a "zombie-mode," when in actuality it's because I'm focusing hard enough on something that my mental facilities can't take the time to respond to him quickly. If you try to distract someone playing a game of chess, it's rude -- but starcraft? Perfectly fine, in his eyes.
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
The future sounds awesome.
You are so wrong. We will be like, shut up kid SC3 is a terrible game, SC2 was the real deal.
or we're gonna be like "kid i'll beat you mouse only at this shit" and then your kid is gonna be like "DAD your so outdated, we dont play with mice anymore , we control everything with our brain lol - its just like chess but without the physical work"
Back to the Future 2, the arcade scene... "You have to use your HANDS?"
This is something I have tried quite a lot, there doesn't seem to be an easy way to explain it. It's like you have to accept being confused first, then grow to learn how the game works.
Starcraft (well, real-time-strategy in general) is comparable to a game of chess where you don't have to wait for the other person's turn, but you also can't see his side of the board. You are making an attack on his king, but also you have to defend against his possible attacks. You can't see exactly what he is doing, so you have to piece together what he is capable of based on the moves that he makes in vision range of your pieces.
and it has lasers and aliens.
How's that? I know the whole starcraft vs chess thing is a huge can of worms, but I honestly can't think of anything else that even comes close.
When I introduced my parents to StarCraft (way back when), they understood just fine; no need to resort to chess comparisons. I don't know, maybe I have extraordinarily smart parents... Or maybe you guys are really bad at explaining things.
On December 30 2011 20:44 Iselian wrote: From there, I'll break it into ground units, flying units, and bonuses versus unit types. After that, I have no idea. Again, all Terran-based for now; I figure it's the easiest to relate to and understand, off the bat.
I think this is going way too far. I don't think you need to explain more than go over how resources are collected to fund armies to fight each other. The more important aspect of this video imo is showing why people follow it, that there is a scene and personalities that function in similar roles to more traditional competitive activities (sports/chess/MMA/however you look at it).
For me it was really easy, my dad taught me how to play W1 when i was a kiddo, he has followed RTS games since that day, playing AoE/SC1/C&C and stuff, he just doesn't like multiplayer/competitive scene, but it's not hard to me lol :V
It's threads like me that help me really appreciate how lucky I am to have a grandfather that really understands all this (He's a programmer)
It was always really annoying to me how when I was growing up it was totally acceptable for my useless waste of a life sister to watch TV 7-8 hours a day, but for me to play Xbox/Computer games was "a huge waste of time" and whatnot.
Eventually, after my family got together and had an "intervention" about how what I was doing wasn't challenging my mental faculties as much as other activities, I sat them down one by one and let them try to play the games I played (Brood War and Halo 2 at the time)
They shut up after that.
It's really hard for previous generations to understand video games, with good reason. However, I find that the case a lot of time isn't that they can't understand, they don't want to understand. Too many people live with the mindset that if you like videogames at all you have to be some basement dwelling unhygienic child with no social skills.
Not trying to rain on your parade here, I think what you're trying to do is great, but I think in the long run it won't be very effective. Explaining the game to someone isn't going to help them get over the social stigma that video games have in the eyes of a large portion of previous generations.
Well my dad plays StarCraft and has played since the release of Original. He now plays StarCraft 2 (bought him it for Father's Day xD) and I play StarCraft 2 competitively, so my mom kind of knows a little about the game. We'll make references and she'll get them sometimes. So in my family, I'm in luck that I didn't have to try to explain everything to them. Lol. So what I do now to get them more involved and to watch it more is to describe how big the scene is. Tell them prize pools, the skill it takes, maybe bracket formats, show them pictures of big crowds (MLG, DreamHack, GSL, etc), show them a video of a caster here and there. The more I show them the scene, the more they like it.
When introducing a game to a parent through talking or through a video like your own, I would suggest focusing a little less on the game itself (since they aren't playing it necessarily) and focus a little more on the scene, and the events. =)
EDIT: The most recent thing I told them about was the retirement of XellOs and the documentary that National Geographic did on him. As well as his APM of 370 (described as, "that's doing 6.2 things per second" sort of a, How many things do you do or do you know of that people do 6.2 things a second for a period of time???~!1@?12!? Lol.)
EDIT #2: For awhile they were giving me some crap for sitting in my room saying "I have to practice" and ignoring them when they walked in. However, when I first made a little money from an online tournament and told them about it, they started helping me practice and trying not to bother me. I think my parents see money as a validity for a sport or activity. If you can make money with it, do it sort of thing. xDD
just tell them its like chess except with robots and aliens, and you can't see the other guy's pieces without having your pieces near them. So its a strategy game in real time, and the choices you make cost money, which you gather with drones. Don't bother w/ minerals and gas, don't bother w/ races or builds, just keep it real simple while letting them know the game has some very complex stuff going on in the background they could look into more if they want.
Idk if someone posted this already, but you can say :
3 aspects of the game:
Economy Army Tech
in a rock paper sizzors kind of version, army>economy> tech>army (early army kills hardcore droning, but hardcore droning kills 1 base teching, but protoss deathball(tech)> over any army
Then you can say that zerg generally focuses on econmy, protoss on tech, terran on army
Of course, this is all general, but its a good way to start explaning i guess?
On December 30 2011 21:02 MethodSC wrote: My dad was a really well known mmo player back in the day so he understands the gaming scene very well. No explaining needed
Same here my dad was a really good Brood War player so he knows all about it and also plays a little SC2 too so no explaining.
The chess comparison is a terrible one. Chess is a turn based game with complete information (everyone sees the whole board at all times) and is mostly symmetric, and Starcraft is a real time game with information being hidden.The only similarity between the two games is that they're 'strategy' games lol.
The best way to describe the game to a layman is 'A strategy game where two players manage resources to build an army and destroy the other player'.
On January 03 2012 09:08 Effay wrote: The chess comparison is a terrible one. Chess is a turn based game with complete information (everyone sees the whole board at all times) and is mostly symmetric, and Starcraft is a real time game with information being hidden.The only similarity between the two games is that they're 'strategy' games lol.
The best way to describe the game to a layman is 'A strategy game where two players manage resources to build an army and destroy the other player'.
I know it's a bad comparison, but on the most basic level, "the army is trying to kill the different colored army", is all most people need to understand
to your average layman, chess is a super complicated war game, and that's all they know about chess likewise, it's all they really need to know
so in trying to espouse the wonders of e-sports to people who don't play games, framing it in that light is good, because furthermore, in most people's mind, chess = the only board game they have tournaments for
of course to us the comparison makes no sense, but unless you're in your early teens the odds are pretty good your parents can't tell the difference between super mario and starcraft. comparing the game to chess then at least gets you in the same ballpark of seriousness and difficulty, and you might be able to make some headway from there.
on the flip side, if your parents happened to be chess grandmasters, then i can see why the analogy would falter a bit, but i have a feeling that is not likely
i would actually try to explain the competitive atmosphere around starcraft pros people who actually make a living out it first, like destiny out of streaming, day9 daily and how he travels around the world to cast tournaments infront of huge audiences, team houses, personalities(idra raging, YES! RAGGE), etc. how everyone tries to go to korea to show how good they can do vs the best players, show them something like videos of the mlg stage before games where players dizz each other and stuff like that. someone who actually dosent care/know about starcraft will fail to care/undestarstand such a complicated game if you try to present it in its raw form as they will see it boring and dull. if they have time make them watch day9 #100 special. show them a cast of a very good serie of a final and a ladder game and talk about why you do things without going into much detail, after that explain them the game. its pretty important that the last thing you show them is how the game works in detail. but some people arent worth it because they are dicks and they just dont know!
On January 01 2012 04:37 tdt wrote: Would never happen since both my parents hate video games and even TV and think them a waste of life. I actually agree on the TV part - But video games are active entertainment requiring input but they don't buy it.
I never try and explain the game and how it works until I feel someone is actually interested, i.e. they ask what exactly is going on. I recently explained my interest as best I could to my sister's boyfriend who I don't think has so much as played a console. He works in a resturant. Doesn't follow sports even.
I got him fairly interested by starting off by stating that it's a very widely played (global) game with professional players and huge sponsors. When people hear things like 'sponsored by Samsung' I think they cross a mental barrier - if Samsung can take it seriously so can I. Talking about the money helps in the same way. This can segue in to talking about teams, players and who you care about and why, what it is you have emotionally invested.
This may have all been said, couldn't get through all 12 pages up to now, but I think the best bet is to get them to care, not understand.
If I knew every rule going about football you couldn't get me to watch Chelsea vs. Man Utd. But if you told me that some team had spent 50 years in their league, lost the first half of the games in the season and staged an epic comeback needing 3 points from this game to prevent relegation...well I'd probably watch that if it was pub five-a-side quality because I'd actually care about the story.
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
The future sounds awesome.
You are so wrong. We will be like, shut up kid SC3 is a terrible game, SC2 was the real deal.
And then the real parents will be like "shut up kid, BW was the real deal"
I got my dad into watching SC2. This was my method:
First I picked out a really simple easy to follow game that was reasonably exciting from each mirror matchup. PvP is the best starting point in my opinion because it's typically low on base numbers with few units running around and if you pick a good game it's easy to see how micro can save the day.
The mirror matchups allow your viewer to get a good idea of each race one at a time without looking at non-mirrors and trying to learn the playstyles of two races at once.
During said games I would turn off the sound and try to commentate it myself, explaining things really dumbed down as the game is going on. You need to explain broad concepts like worker management and vision are important etc, but they'll also want to know specific things like WTF is a Marine is it any good. At the start I completely ignored upgrades and just said things like "Immortals beat Stalkers but Stalkers are faster" etcetera.
After a few such starter games I moved on to a really exciting game, one that's the best of the best and back and forth so they can see how intense a really great game can be. You want to pick out the games you show them. The first games they see are important because if they're one sided or over too quickly they'll think it's pretty stupid, but if it's clearly going back and forth and takes a long time and the casting is good they may think differently.
After THAT we watched a team league set together, because IMO team leagues involve more strategy and you can see the players and the teams more often, and it's better at showing the human side of the game.
After all that, now my dad watches tournaments with me. It's pretty great.
On December 30 2011 20:50 Chargelot wrote: Dude, just imagine, someday we're gonna be the parents. And we'll be getting our asses explained off by our children... Who are really into SC3.
The future sounds awesome.
the future sounds awesome until it happens.
well i am quite young and my dad played the sc1 campaigns so hes kinda interested but my mum has nothing to do with it and thinks my PC is the antichrist
Like people already pointed out, most parents already have their minds made up on video games, hard to convince them otherwise.
But who knows, may yours are very open minded, and like to support you after you show them how much passion you have.
So I would take it slow, explain one little bit at a time. If you're too eagered and try to to expalin all the awsomeness at once, you'll loose them pretty quick, just a couple of things every time, over the course of a couple of month, gotta be patient.
EPT
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