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On December 22 2011 10:47 OldManZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 10:46 LuckyFool wrote:
both maps are utter trash. I played 1 game on each just to confirm how retarded they were. Yup. What didn't you like about them?
The mains on the 4 player map are ridiculously small first of all. the 2 player map is really horrible though because of random backdoor/2nd entrance into nat. makes it impossible to do greedy builds, its sort of like xel naga but almost worse. also the map itself is so bland it just looks awful.
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This is kinda sad.. the two maps they removed for the new ones were actually better..
TvZ is free win for the terran on both the new maps if he decides to go 2 rax and bunker rush, so they are both insta veto'es for a laddering zerg. Even if they were decent they are not playable in ladder with so many abuseable bunker spots.
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The first map, Arid Plateau, seems cool if you're Zerg. If you try to set your mainbase on the other platform with rocks and destroy them seige tanks and forcefields wont hurt you as much since your lings can just run the other way out  And you can defend the gold easyer i think.
Aswell as having overlords in the middle of the map who cant get killed unless the enemy got something flying for it
Also it feels like nydrusnetworks lategame could be really good because t/p cant get the mapvision up cliffs and stuff if they expand. Im in plat tho so don't trust me ))
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I know most people on TL don't care about team games, but does anyone else think that the 2v2 map pool is the worst it's ever been?
In solo, people sometimes complain about maps where it's too hard to take a 3rd or 4th.
In the current 2v2 map pool, there are so many maps where there is only one natural expansion between each team that you can't even veto all of them. The "natural" expansion for the other player on the team is so far away and hard to defend that it's like taking a 4th on most solo maps.
But really, you can't even expand at all because almost every map has backdoor rocks into the main, so you can't rely on the cost efficiency of static defense to defend an expansion against a team that's playing on one base.
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I thought Entombed Valley was an interesting map for macro games. Surely, this map was designed for a bit longer games since your spawn and 2 expos are grouped up into a similar horizontal plane (a.k.a. ramped off).
But the weirdness I've been encountering is the small and narrow choke between your natural and the ideal 3rd. The rocks there are a great idea, but the width of this choke becomes annoying in a long game. In my opinion, they should have turned the 3rd base mineral patches 180 degrees in order to allow this choke to be wider.
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I don't get how any zerg could veto Arid, it's obviously the most zerg favored map in the ladder so far. You can harass toss and terran to oblivion because of the nat, and what can a terran do? bunker rush? Not if you go 14/14 he can't. Hellions? An extra spine or 2 roaches, boom, you're safe on 2 base and he can keep dreaming of getting a nat up. The rush distance is humongous.
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On December 22 2011 17:12 Xolo wrote:
I know most people on TL don't care about team games, but does anyone else think that the 2v2 map pool is the worst it's ever been?
In solo, people sometimes complain about maps where it's too hard to take a 3rd or 4th.
In the current 2v2 map pool, there are so many maps where there is only one natural expansion between each team that you can't even veto all of them. The "natural" expansion for the other player on the team is so far away and hard to defend that it's like taking a 4th on most solo maps.
But really, you can't even expand at all because almost every map has backdoor rocks into the main, so you can't rely on the cost efficiency of static defense to defend an expansion against a team that's playing on one base.
Totaly agree, the only map that have a proper natural is Scorched Haven, the others favors 1-base all ins.
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I'm surprised people have played enough games on the new maps already. So far I've only played 1 game on each and Arid was quite enjoyable as well.
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.... As someone who is playing mostly ladder I'm so disappointed with the way Blizzard deals with maps. I just want a lot of maps, maybe like 15, they can just give more down votes. It is just so boring to play the same maps all the time without any good reason to do that. They aren't perfectly balanced and Blizzard always adds terrible maps every season, so I don't get it why they just don't add some random community maps to the pool and if they turn terrible, people can just remove them. Is it so hard? I don't see a worse map than delta quadrant or scrap station being added any time soon anyway.
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On December 22 2011 17:12 Xolo wrote:
I know most people on TL don't care about team games, but does anyone else think that the 2v2 map pool is the worst it's ever been?
In solo, people sometimes complain about maps where it's too hard to take a 3rd or 4th.
In the current 2v2 map pool, there are so many maps where there is only one natural expansion between each team that you can't even veto all of them. The "natural" expansion for the other player on the team is so far away and hard to defend that it's like taking a 4th on most solo maps.
But really, you can't even expand at all because almost every map has backdoor rocks into the main, so you can't rely on the cost efficiency of static defense to defend an expansion against a team that's playing on one base.
The 2v2 maps are bad. They favour all-in play way too much and make it so damn hard to play macro. I mean... in one of them the main has 2 backdoor rocks.... 2!!
The best one I think atm is the one with a natural in between the two mains at the back
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On December 23 2011 02:47 Nymbul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 17:12 Xolo wrote:
I know most people on TL don't care about team games, but does anyone else think that the 2v2 map pool is the worst it's ever been?
In solo, people sometimes complain about maps where it's too hard to take a 3rd or 4th.
In the current 2v2 map pool, there are so many maps where there is only one natural expansion between each team that you can't even veto all of them. The "natural" expansion for the other player on the team is so far away and hard to defend that it's like taking a 4th on most solo maps.
But really, you can't even expand at all because almost every map has backdoor rocks into the main, so you can't rely on the cost efficiency of static defense to defend an expansion against a team that's playing on one base. The 2v2 maps are bad. They favour all-in play way too much and make it so damn hard to play macro. I mean... in one of them the main has 2 backdoor rocks.... 2!! The best one I think atm is the one with a natural in between the two mains at the back
Even in that one, sure you get one nice expo, and that's great for the player that takes it. But the other player on the team doesn't even really get a natural expo.
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i hate both of these maps soooooo much. blizz should just take the winners of the TL map contest
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Nothing much to say but fucking awful maps, with nothing creative to their design at all.
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As with every single "New maps" discussion, this has quickly turned into the "I lost a game on this map and I will vent my frustration here" thread.
The SC2 community never disappoints.
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On December 23 2011 21:10 DarQraven wrote:
As with every single "New maps" discussion, this has quickly turned into the "I lost a game on this map and I will vent my frustration here" thread.
The SC2 community never disappoints.
Curious that Metalopolis's comeback was applauded and praised, even though it's just as imbalanced as Arid Plateau (albeit the other way).
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On December 23 2011 02:47 Nymbul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 17:12 Xolo wrote:
I know most people on TL don't care about team games, but does anyone else think that the 2v2 map pool is the worst it's ever been?
In solo, people sometimes complain about maps where it's too hard to take a 3rd or 4th.
In the current 2v2 map pool, there are so many maps where there is only one natural expansion between each team that you can't even veto all of them. The "natural" expansion for the other player on the team is so far away and hard to defend that it's like taking a 4th on most solo maps.
But really, you can't even expand at all because almost every map has backdoor rocks into the main, so you can't rely on the cost efficiency of static defense to defend an expansion against a team that's playing on one base. The 2v2 maps are bad. They favour all-in play way too much and make it so damn hard to play macro. I mean... in one of them the main has 2 backdoor rocks.... 2!! The best one I think atm is the one with a natural in between the two mains at the back
The 2v2 map pool isn't great, but the 3v3 one is simply terrible. Whenever I play with friends we always end up arguing over which ones to veto, but there aren't enough votes. Multiple entry points to individual bases? Individual bases with ramps that take 2 depots and 2 rax to wall? Maps you can siege/cannon the mains of from low ground using overlords? All terrible ideas. Sort it out.
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I miss Nerazim Crypt already. It was such a nice map.
Not that it was particularly balanced or well-designed, I just like the palette they used to make it. Such a beautiful map, haha.
I need more Shakuras-palette maps in the map pool!!!!
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Not sure about that second map from a Zerg pov, the other one looks alright though
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On December 23 2011 22:31 K9GM3 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 21:10 DarQraven wrote:
As with every single "New maps" discussion, this has quickly turned into the "I lost a game on this map and I will vent my frustration here" thread.
The SC2 community never disappoints. Curious that Metalopolis's comeback was applauded and praised, even though it's just as imbalanced as Arid Plateau (albeit the other way).
It's really not that imbalanced
Anyway I'm not really complaining much about Arid. It certainly has areas which can be exploited early game, but after that there are plenty of expansions you can take comfortably with the option of counter attacks on your opponents third. Really enjoyable games so far as well.
Don't have anything positive to say about Entombed though.
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EPT
