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On December 14 2011 04:16 cellblock wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:09 Soma.bokforlag wrote:
the reason koreans are so mad is not because of some strange culture-thing, its because theyre praying really hard that the west will start taking e-sports seriously since the are the world leaders.
its not strange. swedes would love it if other countries started to care about floorball or bandy
so, when arguably the best non-korean in the world acts this way they get scared. was e-sports in the west just a fluke? do they not care about us?
they feel insulted in a totally different way than if MC would have done the same at MLG, because naniwa is more or less saying "f**k this, i dont care about this game" and that game is soooo much more important to the koreans than it is to us. to them every game between a foreigner and a korean means that maybe maybe e-sports will grow in the west and players like nestea and mvp can become real international stars. not just national stars that noone outside of korea have heard of, but actual superstars
the koreans know that if e-sports hits big in the west they will have a huge edge, and lots of money and fans will be guaranteed Esport have existed and been taken seriously since 2000 in the West. Also SC2 is bigger than KR in both NA and Europe if you look at active ladder players. Nestea and Mvp are hardly national stars, dont think anyone would recognize them on the streets of Seuol.
Yeah. What about broodwar?  you know something about how bw pros are treated in korea? Sc2 is a new game and koreans are just trying to make it right, still people like naniwa do thinks like this. Imagine how it looks to the eyes of the people who have supported a game for 10+ years to see the "new" game being played with this kind of attitude. it's not just about culture. Its about respect too.
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On December 14 2011 04:28 mbr2321 wrote:
It comes down to an overreaction on KR's part.This kind of thing happens. IdrA gave free wins by withdrawing from Code S after groups were selected. He also opted not to play some of his IPL games. With regards to Code S, GOM didn't get pissy at IdrA-- they made hims a memorial video.
I just don't understand why this is different.
IdrA told GOM tv that he would not play before the group selecting. GOM still wanted IdrA to be in group selection ceremony.
But yes, its an over reaction.
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On December 14 2011 04:28 mbr2321 wrote:
It comes down to an overreaction on KR's part.This kind of thing happens. IdrA gave free wins by withdrawing from Code S after groups were selected. He also opted not to play some of his IPL games. With regards to Code S, GOM didn't get pissy at IdrA-- they made hims a memorial video.
I just don't understand why this is different.
Nah i'm pretty sure Idra gave notice to GSL before he made the groups already. Just that it wasn't released. And he left on good terms with advanced notice.
Pretty sure they are completely different things .....
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On December 14 2011 04:28 mbr2321 wrote:
It comes down to an overreaction on KR's part.This kind of thing happens. IdrA gave free wins by withdrawing from Code S after groups were selected. He also opted not to play some of his IPL games. With regards to Code S, GOM didn't get pissy at IdrA-- they made hims a memorial video.
I just don't understand why this is different.
They actually punished him and banned him for 2 GSL seasons for forfeiting his matches. Or maybe it wasn't because of this incident? My memory's feeling weak
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On December 14 2011 04:30 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:28 mbr2321 wrote:
It comes down to an overreaction on KR's part.This kind of thing happens. IdrA gave free wins by withdrawing from Code S after groups were selected. He also opted not to play some of his IPL games. With regards to Code S, GOM didn't get pissy at IdrA-- they made hims a memorial video.
I just don't understand why this is different. They actually punished him and banned him for 2 GSL seasons for forfeiting his matches.
That was Rain, not Idra.
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On December 14 2011 04:22 DjRoomba wrote:
OMFG do you relly think that pros play to show ther fanns that is relly retarded they play to win and nani cude nott win any more so why the fuck nott just give up huh ?
fans pay their winnings, no fans, no sc2 career for Nani. He should make a big apology to the Korean community then keep his head low and carry on with his career. I pray he does since he's a Scandinavian after all
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On December 14 2011 04:27 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:25 canikizu wrote:On December 14 2011 03:56 zanga wrote:How about adding what the man himself has said about the issue and not just the least involved people? http://twitter.com/#!/QuanticNaNi/status/146590749985742848And of course when he says (as seen in the interview of "Naniwa Interview - Blizzard Cup Group B") "I AM VERY SORRY ABOUT THIS"... As was he many times before, why should we care about his apologies anymore? He clearly doesn't mean it, you know it, I know it, as do many other people. I'm not so sure about that...I honestly think he just doesn't understand the implications of his actions. This isn't even about having a PR person to help you out, he just lacks understanding of basic social norms.
This is what i think as well. I remember during the last homestory cup Take asked him if he had a fanpage or something like that. Naniwa just had no clue what to say to that, he looked completely lost. I dont think he is very strong socially, can you blame him for that? Not really, flaming him more obviously is not going to improve it.
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On December 14 2011 04:30 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:28 mbr2321 wrote:
It comes down to an overreaction on KR's part.This kind of thing happens. IdrA gave free wins by withdrawing from Code S after groups were selected. He also opted not to play some of his IPL games. With regards to Code S, GOM didn't get pissy at IdrA-- they made hims a memorial video.
I just don't understand why this is different. They actually punished him and banned him for 2 GSL seasons for forfeiting his matches. Or maybe it wasn't because of this incident? My memory's feeling weak
I believe that was for Rain, not IdrA
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On December 14 2011 04:31 Lobo2me wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:30 mordk wrote:On December 14 2011 04:28 mbr2321 wrote:
It comes down to an overreaction on KR's part.This kind of thing happens. IdrA gave free wins by withdrawing from Code S after groups were selected. He also opted not to play some of his IPL games. With regards to Code S, GOM didn't get pissy at IdrA-- they made hims a memorial video.
I just don't understand why this is different. They actually punished him and banned him for 2 GSL seasons for forfeiting his matches. That was Rain, not Idra.
Oh right.. my bad
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On December 14 2011 04:30 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:28 mbr2321 wrote:
It comes down to an overreaction on KR's part.This kind of thing happens. IdrA gave free wins by withdrawing from Code S after groups were selected. He also opted not to play some of his IPL games. With regards to Code S, GOM didn't get pissy at IdrA-- they made hims a memorial video.
I just don't understand why this is different. They actually punished him and banned him for 2 GSL seasons for forfeiting his matches.
That was rain. And that was cause rain forfeited at the really last minute and GSL had no time to solve the gap left behind by rain's departure, hence the punishment.
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On December 14 2011 04:26 Sea_Food wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:19 The_LiNk wrote:On December 14 2011 04:09 Sea_Food wrote:
You could edit this at the end of OP
TL;DR
Some Koreans do not understand that there are people in the world with different cultures. That happens when a nation does not have enough immigrants. People there will not learn to respect other cultures within their own borders. Understanding cultures go both ways. You expect Koreans to understand Naniwa's "Western" culture of winning but you do not understand the Korean culture of respect. So ironic. Last time I checked, "fighting to the bitter end" thing is very prevalent in Western cultures. 300 and Spartans and all. Naniwa was in pissed off, so there is a reason why he dosnt act respectfully. And FYI. 300 spartans was not a documentary. 300 spartans never did kill 10 000 persians. If you havent stayed awake during history lessons, western nations give up before they have only 300 soldiers left.
OMG SPOILER WARNINGS PLEASE!!!
and i agree with tyler. i really like the "no bulls**t"-attitude from naniwa. why do a 4 gate and pretend you care about the game? this can turn out to be a huge boon for esports, we might actually see tournaments trying to eliminate games that doesnt matter.
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On December 14 2011 04:29 Kznn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:16 cellblock wrote:On December 14 2011 04:09 Soma.bokforlag wrote:
the reason koreans are so mad is not because of some strange culture-thing, its because theyre praying really hard that the west will start taking e-sports seriously since the are the world leaders.
its not strange. swedes would love it if other countries started to care about floorball or bandy
so, when arguably the best non-korean in the world acts this way they get scared. was e-sports in the west just a fluke? do they not care about us?
they feel insulted in a totally different way than if MC would have done the same at MLG, because naniwa is more or less saying "f**k this, i dont care about this game" and that game is soooo much more important to the koreans than it is to us. to them every game between a foreigner and a korean means that maybe maybe e-sports will grow in the west and players like nestea and mvp can become real international stars. not just national stars that noone outside of korea have heard of, but actual superstars
the koreans know that if e-sports hits big in the west they will have a huge edge, and lots of money and fans will be guaranteed Esport have existed and been taken seriously since 2000 in the West. Also SC2 is bigger than KR in both NA and Europe if you look at active ladder players. Nestea and Mvp are hardly national stars, dont think anyone would recognize them on the streets of Seuol. Yeah. What about broodwar? you know something about how bw pros are treated in korea? Sc2 is a new game and koreans are just trying to make it right, still people like naniwa do thinks like this. Imagine how it looks to the eyes of the people who have supported a game for 10+ years to see the "new" game being played with this kind of attitude. it's not just about culture. Its about respect too.
People like IdrA who leave tournaments after group selection, who neglect to even play games at tournaments, who leave a game after accidentally canceling a CC-- this happened in BW too.
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On December 14 2011 04:19 poorcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:14 slicknav wrote:On December 14 2011 03:58 Ecrilon wrote:
Nestea should have shown a good game to the fans by worker rushing at the same time.
...
Get over it. Is it really better if Naniwa goes and proxy two gates instead? yes, it is better. It will certainly be better for his sc2 career. And i'm tired of all those people who say "fuck it", "badass", "be yourself" with regards to this. This world is all about social/peer pressure and i'm sure most of the "bad asses" in TL conform to social norms one way or another. All of us can see that it will be smart of Naniwa to have at least pretended to give a shit. Then this thread wouldn't have even existed.
whether it just justified or not, Naniwa's reputation was somewhat tarnished after the last MLG. He may have not deserved the hate, but he got it anyways. It he wants to re-build his reputation within this community, then he needs to stop doing things like this. As you put, he at least needs to pretend to give a shit.
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On December 14 2011 04:24 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:46 robih wrote:
its just pathetic how they make a big deal out of nothing thats not for you to say, the korean esports scene has been around for over decade and their views on what they believe is appropriate sc ethiquette/behaviour will obviously be different than what your views of it are, i personally didnt care much for what he did but the koreans did and that alone is horrible pr for our community
In my opinion, what you did with Fenix is way worse than throwing a meaningless game.
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On December 14 2011 04:26 Sea_Food wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:19 The_LiNk wrote:On December 14 2011 04:09 Sea_Food wrote:
You could edit this at the end of OP
TL;DR
Some Koreans do not understand that there are people in the world with different cultures. That happens when a nation does not have enough immigrants. People there will not learn to respect other cultures within their own borders. Understanding cultures go both ways. You expect Koreans to understand Naniwa's "Western" culture of winning but you do not understand the Korean culture of respect. So ironic. Last time I checked, "fighting to the bitter end" thing is very prevalent in Western cultures. 300 and Spartans and all. Naniwa was in pissed off, so there is a reason why he dosnt act respectfully. And FYI. 300 spartans was not a documentary. 300 spartans never did kill 10 000 persians. If you havent stayed awake during history lessons, western nations give up before they have only 300 soldiers left.
I don't think you understood my reference to 300 and the Spartans. I'm saying how Western culture seems to have some sort of value in fighting to the end because it's the honourable thing to do and how the lore of the Battle of Thermopylae is one of the most celebrated examples of this.
Also I don't see how Naniwa being pissed off is an excuse to not act respectfully. Do Western parents really buy the candy for their child just because the child is having a temper tantrum?
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On December 14 2011 04:31 Switchy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:27 Sandster wrote:On December 14 2011 04:25 canikizu wrote:On December 14 2011 03:56 zanga wrote:How about adding what the man himself has said about the issue and not just the least involved people? http://twitter.com/#!/QuanticNaNi/status/146590749985742848And of course when he says (as seen in the interview of "Naniwa Interview - Blizzard Cup Group B") "I AM VERY SORRY ABOUT THIS"... As was he many times before, why should we care about his apologies anymore? He clearly doesn't mean it, you know it, I know it, as do many other people. I'm not so sure about that...I honestly think he just doesn't understand the implications of his actions. This isn't even about having a PR person to help you out, he just lacks understanding of basic social norms. This is what i think as well. I remember during the last homestory cup Take asked him if he had a fanpage or something like that. Naniwa just had no clue what to say to that, he looked completely lost. I dont think he is very strong socially, can you blame him for that? Not really, flaming him more obviously is not going to improve it.
Which is why i find it weird that no one has tried to actively help him before? So is he really difficult behind the scenes, or just unlucky?
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On December 14 2011 04:25 canikizu wrote:As was he many times before, why should we care about his apologies anymore? He clearly doesn't mean it, you know it, I know it, as do many other people.
That's the reason IdrA never apologizes, as he said himself. Naniwa should learn from IdrA on this point
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There's a very very big difference between forfeiting and what Naniwa did. If Naniwa forfeited, fans would be disappointed (and probably a little upset), but they won't be nearly as bad as what he did.
He went into the game, the fans were hyped, Nestea was ready to play, the commentators are excited...and baam. GG'd right at the start.
Why the hell would you do that? If you're already in the booth, just play it out.
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On December 14 2011 04:32 Hazuc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:24 TT1 wrote:On December 13 2011 22:46 robih wrote:
its just pathetic how they make a big deal out of nothing thats not for you to say, the korean esports scene has been around for over decade and their views on what they believe is appropriate sc ethiquette/behaviour will obviously be different than what your views of it are, i personally didnt care much for what he did but the koreans did and that alone is horrible pr for our community In my opinion, what you did with Fenix is way worse than throwing a meaningless game.
what i did to fenix? hahaha you fucking idiot
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 14 2011 04:31 b0rt_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:22 DjRoomba wrote:
OMFG do you relly think that pros play to show ther fanns that is relly retarded they play to win and nani cude nott win any more so why the fuck nott just give up huh ?
fans pay their winnings, no fans, no sc2 career for Nani. He should make a big apology to the Korean community then keep his head low and carry on with his career. I pray he does since he's a Scandinavian after all
Fans pay for the competitor. Haters dont cost competitors at all. If naniwa lost 1000 fans cos of this, made 1000 new fans, and 1 000 000 new haters, it would not hurt nani at all.
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EPT
