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On December 14 2011 03:59 Namkung wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:54 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 03:52 DarKFoRcE wrote:
Im pretty sure that this is going to have consequences for him. Some people might find it funny and all that, but its a korean tournament taking place in korea, and in their culture this is not considered funny, and they are the ones that decide~~ Unfortunately their culture is also known for having a shit sense of humor, so I wouldn't be surprised if it does turn out really badly for him. yea bro. what he did was so funny huh
I laughed at teh probe rush. To me it felt like a mothership rush. The casters laughed. Audience members laughed.
You guys remember ePGimix? He threw games for White-ra to make their series even. He was fucking lauded for that. Everyone LOVED IT. He compromised the integrity of the MLG brackets. Everyone loved it because it was fucking beast, and it helped white-ra who is also beast. I wasn't outraged then, and I'm not outraged now just because its fucking Naniwa, who along wtih Major are the most socially inept people we could throw at Korea.
and yes, Koreans and most every asian culture, are not anywhere near known for their sense of humor, especially when it comes to sarcasm.
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naniwa should watch the Indianapolis colts this sunday. they are 0-13 and have nothing to play for but self respect. they will try their hardest.
and i dont buy the "game was meaningless, nothing to play for" shit from him.
he could have lost every game, but if he beats nestea IT STILL WOULD HAVE BEEN A SUCCESSFUL NIGHT for him because HE hyped the game up so much.
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Okay Naniwa's decision wasn't that great for the viewers, organizers and players who would love to be in the GSL, but this drama bullshit is really getting blown out of proportion...he threw a game that had no implications, not kill a puppy...
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On December 14 2011 03:57 moyk wrote:
The biggest difference between this and Stephano/Cloud at Dreamhack is how Naniwa blatantly and transparently threw the game. This was also essentially an invitational tournament for us fans to see the game's "allstars" to close out the year hence why they decided to televise the match even though it held no bearing on the tournament results as both were already eliminated. I mean who wouldn't want to see a Naniwa/Nestea game especially due to their recent "rivalry". Also, this game was being broadcasted to a MUCH larger audience as not only us foreigners were tuning in, but Koreans as well coupled with the fact that he basically threw the game so transparently, it's no surprise there's so much backlash.
I can't believe you're saying that naniwa throwing a pointless game is worse than stephano throwing a game that will impact the other players in his group
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On December 14 2011 03:57 Tyrant0 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:53 zestzorb wrote:On December 14 2011 03:51 Tyrant0 wrote:On December 14 2011 03:46 zestzorb wrote:On December 14 2011 03:43 Tyrant0 wrote:On December 14 2011 03:38 zestzorb wrote:On December 14 2011 03:37 Tyrant0 wrote:On December 14 2011 03:34 zestzorb wrote:On December 14 2011 03:31 Tyrant0 wrote:On December 14 2011 03:29 zestzorb wrote:
[quote]
And if GOM actually bans him for 2 years u can't really blame them for doing that, you have to respect the fact that they organize a competition for players to compete. Yeah, for money. The match Naniwa competed for wasn't for money. It was for shits and giggles. He could have thrown it in many different ways. Nestea could have thrown it many ways. They had absolutely nothing to gain other than a televised win which ultimately amounts to nothing other a tiny bit of press. From GOM's PoV, they want to attract more viewers with quality games. Throwing games doesn't support their cause. So throw the matches if you'd like but don't whine if GOM bans you for two years. GSL has no pointless matches. Have you ever seen someone throw a match that wasn't because a player DIDN'T want to win money/prestige in the GSL? No incentive to win = no quality games. The format is stupid, no doubt. But GOM wouldn't prefer Naniwa acting like that anyway, would they? That's GOM's fault for overlooking this issue, not Naniwa's who was the player stuck in it. The system is bad and GOM should do something about it, but that doesn't mean Naniwa is right. He lacks professionalism and doesn't fit in with any tournament looking for professional competition. edit: think about it this way. If that was Boxer in Nani's shoes, what do you think he would do? And which action GOM would prefer, Boxer's or Nani's? Boxer in Naniwa's shoes? Make a line of bunkers from your base to your opponents. Well I think he might do something like that and still show us some entertaining game. Yesterday Hero was also 0-3 and in the last match he played honorably, didn't he? By show us an entertaining game I think you mean cause thousands of fans to storm out of a stadium in disgust at how fake a match is. Get it? Storm. I don't give a flying fuck if Hero played 'honorably' If hero decided to take off all his clothes, do a handstand and play with his feet my answer would be the same; blame the tournament, not naniwa. Like really, it doesn't matter who decided to play a match, it wasn't real. They didn't give a fuck. Naniwa was the only one to have the balls to basically say, "this match is pointless, I dont give a fuck."
The format dosen't make sense but what your saying is essentially, good job on Naniwa for taking part in the tournament in which he already knew the format beforehand, troll the organisers and fans to prove a point?
Regardless of the format, he was unprofessional or unsportsmanlike.
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On December 14 2011 04:03 danson wrote:
naniwa should watch the Indianapolis colts this sunday. they are 0-13 and have nothing to play for but self respect. they will try their hardest.
and i dont buy the "game was meaningless, nothing to play for" shit from him.
he could have lost every game, but if he beats nestea IT STILL WOULD HAVE BEEN A SUCCESSFUL NIGHT for him because HE hyped the game up so much.
Because naniwa is obsessed with winning real competitive matches, he doesn't give two shits for some made up overhyped rivarly.
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tldr; you play to win the game -- i dont care if you don't have any wins -- you go play to win
Well, I'm guessing this is exactly Naniwas view as well. You play to win the game. He had nothing to win, so he didn't want to play.
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Seriously, at this point, he should just apologise to GOM and to Nestea, saying that he was really tired and was depress after is poor performance, and that he should not have played the match at all... and that he will not throw anymore match from now on.
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On December 14 2011 04:06 Ponchey wrote:Show nested quote +
tldr; you play to win the game -- i dont care if you don't have any wins -- you go play to win
Well, I'm guessing this is exactly Naniwas view as well. You play to win the game. He had nothing to win, so he didn't want to play.
He had the game to win.
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On December 14 2011 04:06 zestzorb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:06 Ponchey wrote:
tldr; you play to win the game -- i dont care if you don't have any wins -- you go play to win
Well, I'm guessing this is exactly Naniwas view as well. You play to win the game. He had nothing to win, so he didn't want to play. He had the game to win.
And lost the game.
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On December 14 2011 04:06 Ponchey wrote:Show nested quote +
tldr; you play to win the game -- i dont care if you don't have any wins -- you go play to win
Well, I'm guessing this is exactly Naniwas view as well. You play to win the game. He had nothing to win, so he didn't want to play.
Pretty much this. Everyone who's jumping on the "play to win" bandwagon should take a step back for a sec and ask themselves what Naniwa was actually playing for in that game against Nestea. The answer is absolutely nothing tangible, so it's not super outrageous that he wouldn't give a shit.
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On December 14 2011 04:03 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:59 Namkung wrote:On December 14 2011 03:54 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 03:52 DarKFoRcE wrote:
Im pretty sure that this is going to have consequences for him. Some people might find it funny and all that, but its a korean tournament taking place in korea, and in their culture this is not considered funny, and they are the ones that decide~~ Unfortunately their culture is also known for having a shit sense of humor, so I wouldn't be surprised if it does turn out really badly for him. yea bro. what he did was so funny huh I laughed at teh probe rush. To me it felt like a mothership rush. The casters laughed. Audience members laughed. You guys remember ePGimix? He threw games for White-ra to make their series even. He was fucking lauded for that. Everyone LOVED IT. He compromised the integrity of the MLG brackets. Everyone loved it because it was fucking beast, and it helped white-ra who is also beast. I wasn't outraged then, and I'm not outraged now just because its fucking Naniwa, who along wtih Major are the most socially inept people we could throw at Korea. and yes, Koreans and most every asian culture, are not anywhere near known for their sense of humor, especially when it comes to sarcasm.
I like how you generalise asian culture, even mine lol. But i agree that theres not much appreciation of sarcasm in asia.
Anyways, the context of the white-ra thing was different. People felt white-ra was hard done by the tournament. ePGimix move was viewed as making things right. Naniwa made nothing right in this case.
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On December 14 2011 04:03 danson wrote:
naniwa should watch the Indianapolis colts this sunday. they are 0-13 and have nothing to play for but self respect. they will try their hardest.
and i dont buy the "game was meaningless, nothing to play for" shit from him.
he could have lost every game, but if he beats nestea IT STILL WOULD HAVE BEEN A SUCCESSFUL NIGHT for him because HE hyped the game up so much.
I wouldn't really call getting knocked out of the tournament but then winning a showmatch a successful night.
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You could edit this at the end of OP
TL;DR
Some Koreans do not understand that there are people in the world with different cultures. That happens when a nation does not have enough immigrants. People there will not learn to respect other cultures within their own borders.
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On December 14 2011 04:04 poorcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:57 Tyrant0 wrote:On December 14 2011 03:53 zestzorb wrote:On December 14 2011 03:51 Tyrant0 wrote:On December 14 2011 03:46 zestzorb wrote:On December 14 2011 03:43 Tyrant0 wrote:On December 14 2011 03:38 zestzorb wrote:On December 14 2011 03:37 Tyrant0 wrote:On December 14 2011 03:34 zestzorb wrote:On December 14 2011 03:31 Tyrant0 wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, for money. The match Naniwa competed for wasn't for money. It was for shits and giggles. He could have thrown it in many different ways. Nestea could have thrown it many ways. They had absolutely nothing to gain other than a televised win which ultimately amounts to nothing other a tiny bit of press.
From GOM's PoV, they want to attract more viewers with quality games. Throwing games doesn't support their cause. So throw the matches if you'd like but don't whine if GOM bans you for two years. GSL has no pointless matches. Have you ever seen someone throw a match that wasn't because a player DIDN'T want to win money/prestige in the GSL? No incentive to win = no quality games. The format is stupid, no doubt. But GOM wouldn't prefer Naniwa acting like that anyway, would they? That's GOM's fault for overlooking this issue, not Naniwa's who was the player stuck in it. The system is bad and GOM should do something about it, but that doesn't mean Naniwa is right. He lacks professionalism and doesn't fit in with any tournament looking for professional competition. edit: think about it this way. If that was Boxer in Nani's shoes, what do you think he would do? And which action GOM would prefer, Boxer's or Nani's? Boxer in Naniwa's shoes? Make a line of bunkers from your base to your opponents. Well I think he might do something like that and still show us some entertaining game. Yesterday Hero was also 0-3 and in the last match he played honorably, didn't he? By show us an entertaining game I think you mean cause thousands of fans to storm out of a stadium in disgust at how fake a match is. Get it? Storm. I don't give a flying fuck if Hero played 'honorably' If hero decided to take off all his clothes, do a handstand and play with his feet my answer would be the same; blame the tournament, not naniwa. Like really, it doesn't matter who decided to play a match, it wasn't real. They didn't give a fuck. Naniwa was the only one to have the balls to basically say, "this match is pointless, I dont give a fuck." The format dosen't make sense but what your saying is essentially, good job on Naniwa for taking part in the tournament in which he already knew the format beforehand, troll the organisers and fans to prove a point? Regardless of the format, he was unprofessional or unsportsmanlike.
I guess you could say that, but at some point when do Koreans stop shitting all over Naniwa because he's both Naniwa and a foreigner, and start shitting on GOM? Sounds like their anger is hugely misdirected. Yeah what Naniwa did was BM. Should he be kicked out of quantic/out of korea for it? Does it some how make him not a pro gamer?
Imagine the outrage from Korea if a foreign esports article surfaced after blizzcon questioning whether or not Nestea is a pro-gamer- and despite the controversy discussing this topic brings, the implications of Nestea throwing (if he did) are circumstantially much worse. This article is blown way out of proportion, reeks of bias, and I'm amazed everyone is still content to shit on Naniwa and AT LEAST not the article which blows the drama out of the roof.
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On December 14 2011 04:04 hugman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:57 moyk wrote:
The biggest difference between this and Stephano/Cloud at Dreamhack is how Naniwa blatantly and transparently threw the game. This was also essentially an invitational tournament for us fans to see the game's "allstars" to close out the year hence why they decided to televise the match even though it held no bearing on the tournament results as both were already eliminated. I mean who wouldn't want to see a Naniwa/Nestea game especially due to their recent "rivalry". Also, this game was being broadcasted to a MUCH larger audience as not only us foreigners were tuning in, but Koreans as well coupled with the fact that he basically threw the game so transparently, it's no surprise there's so much backlash. I can't believe you're saying that naniwa throwing a pointless game is worse than stephano throwing a game that will impact the other players in his group
Where did I say that? And can you not see the bold? The backlash and shitstorm is the result of him throwing the game so TRASNPARENTLY. Obviously if he just did some stupid cheese none of this would've happened.
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the reason koreans are so mad is not because of some strange culture-thing, its because theyre praying really hard that the west will start taking e-sports seriously since the are the world leaders.
its not strange. swedes would love it if other countries started to care about floorball or bandy
so, when arguably the best non-korean in the world acts this way they get scared. was e-sports in the west just a fluke? do they not care about us?
they feel insulted in a totally different way than if MC would have done the same at MLG, because naniwa is more or less saying "f**k this, i dont care about this game" and that game is soooo much more important to the koreans than it is to us. to them every game between a foreigner and a korean means that maybe maybe e-sports will grow in the west and players like nestea and mvp can become real international stars. not just national stars that noone outside of korea have heard of, but actual superstars
the koreans know that if e-sports hits big in the west they will have a huge edge, and lots of money and fans will be guaranteed
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On December 14 2011 04:05 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:03 danson wrote:
naniwa should watch the Indianapolis colts this sunday. they are 0-13 and have nothing to play for but self respect. they will try their hardest.
and i dont buy the "game was meaningless, nothing to play for" shit from him.
he could have lost every game, but if he beats nestea IT STILL WOULD HAVE BEEN A SUCCESSFUL NIGHT for him because HE hyped the game up so much.
Because naniwa is obsessed with winning real competitive matches, he doesn't give two shits for some made up overhyped rivarly.
Yeah of course he's obsessed with winning REAL COMPETITIVE matches, his record is just fine in GSL isn't it? Of course he doesn't need to prove himself in Korea against one of the best zergs in the world. Of course he doesn't need to do it.
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There's no real difference between what he did and throwing out a half-assed 4gate/6pool/bunker rush like everyone else does.
It's all just about "keeping up appearances" so they can market those matches to people who don't actually play and understand the game.
Why not just have the casters hype up the balls/skill/insane strat of the player who does it like usual?
Maybe even focus on the individual kill count of one of the probes while shouting about how close he is to making it and calling it a good effort once it inevitably fails?
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On December 14 2011 04:06 Xalorian wrote:
Seriously, at this point, he should just apologise to GOM and to Nestea, saying that he was really tired and was depress after is poor performance, and that he should not have played the match at all... and that he will not throw anymore match from now on.
lmfao
Why should he apologize? He dont regret it or care about it obviously, so why should he lie and apologize. To make u circlejerkers feel good about how warm and fuzzy esport is?
User was warned for this post
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EPT
