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"StarCraft changed my life"

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
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hibbleton
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada25 Posts
November 18 2011 20:49 GMT
#1
Paul Miller wrote this amazing feature on The Verge. The Verge is a brand new technology news site, founded by the former editors of Engadget. Check it out, it's definitely worth the read.

http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/18/2571255/starcraft-changed-my-life
it takes an ocean not to break
looknohands119
Profile Joined March 2010
United States815 Posts
November 18 2011 20:50 GMT
#2
I just saw this! Its a great read. I was just about to post it and then I saw the thread. Its awesome that the community is becoming more mainstream and I especially love that he equated being an SC2 fan with being a sports fan up front at the beginning of the article!
"The kingdom of the heavens is buried treasure. Would you sell yourself to buy the one you've found?" - Jon Foreman ('Your Love Is Strong' - Spring EP)
FrOsTyy
Profile Joined November 2010
United States125 Posts
November 18 2011 20:53 GMT
#3
Sick! Haha I knew I was on to something with my post about how Paul Miller loves starcraft 2!.

For those who might not know, right now the Verge is averaging about 4 million unique views and 20-30 million page views monthly. That is a huge amount of new eyeballs that get to see what Starcaft 2 is all about.
I'd love to get your help!
tuestresfat
Profile Joined December 2010
2555 Posts
November 18 2011 20:58 GMT
#4
It's really long, but I agree it was worth the read if you have the time.
+ Show Spoiler +
MLG starts in 1hr, so you don't
FrOsTyy
Profile Joined November 2010
United States125 Posts
November 18 2011 21:07 GMT
#5
Okay I just finished reading the whole thing. And wow it was an impressive read. The guy is Bronze player and super excited. I especially loved how on his bike ride home he said he was telling himself "Foreigners can win too, I will play when I get home". Haha so awesome.
I'd love to get your help!
Johnnybb
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark486 Posts
November 18 2011 21:16 GMT
#6
Wow such a good read, he is an extremely good writer. It kinda felt like I was there...
Noev
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1105 Posts
November 18 2011 21:21 GMT
#7
amazing read, and i really understood his feelings about first getting there and not being sure what to do. I went to a meet up for MLG orlando also and at first it was just me and my friend and this other guy at his place watching. But i gotta say 5 minutes into the first games and its like we were best friends for years. Really wish i could have made it out to MLG this year but i couldn't. There is always next year or until then barcrafts in Boston!
1Focus
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States409 Posts
November 18 2011 21:30 GMT
#8
Im gonna check this out hopefully it will be epic but from everyones comments it will be worth it
Twitter: iF0CUS
tubs
Profile Joined March 2010
764 Posts
November 18 2011 21:39 GMT
#9
Paul Miller rocks. It's amazing seeing this stuff on something outside of an exports site.
"Roach dies to immortal and rockit black guy" - Tierdal.thex
Madera
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden2672 Posts
November 18 2011 21:48 GMT
#10
I skimmed through it and it's just so well done.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-18 21:58:40
November 18 2011 21:55 GMT
#11
This is the best SC2 article I've read from a non-gaming site yet, and better than the stuff from G4 and other's.

Well done, Verge.

For those who don't know, The Verge is the "new" Engadget. Engadget's top editors all left after they were bought by AOL, and started The Verge.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Hydra3
Profile Joined September 2010
United States32 Posts
November 18 2011 22:32 GMT
#12
Wow, amazing article! Really makes you feel good about being a fan of ESPORTS. It really shows that starcraft has the tools to become a very popular form of entertainment, rather than just "pixels shooting at pixels".
Can't come up with a creative quote O.O
Conquerer67
Profile Joined May 2011
United States605 Posts
November 18 2011 22:42 GMT
#13
Damn that's a fucking amazing article. Probably the best I've ever read about e-sports to date not from a video game website.
I hate when people compare SC2 and rochambeu. One race isn't fucking supposed to counter another one. | Protoss isn't OP. Their units on the other hand....
futurepaul
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1 Post
November 18 2011 23:38 GMT
#14
Thank you guys! I'm surprised nobody's pointed out any glaring factual errors yet. Means a ton that this doesn't sound like total BS to you all, because I hate when a "mainstream" pub tries to explain a video game I like and just ends up sounding like a condescending jerk about it. I'm on here a lot, never posted before though. Guess I'll have to start!
eourcs
Profile Joined February 2011
United States459 Posts
November 18 2011 23:47 GMT
#15
Great read! Well written and well presented.

By the way, "penultimate" is the coolest word ever, glad he managed to fit it in.
Masters Terran | Strelok after losing to Kas' BCs "FUUUUUCK" *Stream Offline* | "Fuck hellions. Fuck them in the ass" IdrA
BraneSC2
Profile Joined May 2010
United States123 Posts
November 19 2011 00:03 GMT
#16
Great article. It's nearly the perfect bridge between Starcraft and sports. And describes the game very well to those who have never heard of the game. This is the stuff that would intrigue people into joining the starcraft scene. I'd be so happy to see more of this.
No fighting in the war room!
Modernist
Profile Joined March 2011
United States89 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-08 00:58:59
November 19 2011 00:04 GMT
#17
tombigbimbom
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
12 Posts
November 19 2011 00:31 GMT
#18
Damn. This is so good. Loved the article, more of that, please!
Dew.
Profile Joined January 2011
Brazil104 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-19 02:20:02
November 19 2011 02:15 GMT
#19
That was a great read =)

Man I'm loving The Verge!

The Verge >>>>> Engadget

EDIT:

On November 19 2011 08:38 futurepaul wrote:
Thank you guys! I'm surprised nobody's pointed out any glaring factual errors yet. Means a ton that this doesn't sound like total BS to you all, because I hate when a "mainstream" pub tries to explain a video game I like and just ends up sounding like a condescending jerk about it. I'm on here a lot, never posted before though. Guess I'll have to start!


Oh, you are here Paul! Great job man, very well writen!
Keep up the good work =)
bubO
Profile Joined August 2010
United States367 Posts
November 19 2011 02:17 GMT
#20
Awesome read
Protoss...
Big G
Profile Joined April 2011
Italy835 Posts
November 19 2011 04:00 GMT
#21
Best article on Starcraft I've ever read.
FlamingTurd
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1059 Posts
November 19 2011 04:04 GMT
#22
OMG what can we say about that article?!? That was insanely awesome! Loved the whole thing.
Nerf MMMT!!! Liquid`Ret Hwaiting!!!
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3115 Posts
November 19 2011 04:16 GMT
#23
A very nice read, and quite insightful, I thought. The moment when a thing stops being a thing that you do in your spare time, and starts being something you're able to connect to other people with and enjoy, share, and discuss with others, is the moment when it really becomes real. I thought you captured that quite well.

Hail ESPORTS!
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
DeadCell
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada256 Posts
November 19 2011 04:25 GMT
#24
I particularly enjoyed :

" See, unlike most video games released in the 21st century, StarCraft has a learning curve that's not just a vertical cliff… it's a tidal wave that threatens to destroy you. Much like someone attempting to play a sport without first learning the rules, my pitiable forays into online play showed little understanding of the game’s strategy, and even less of the underlying gameplay."

Really good read altogether :D
If it comes down to you or them, send flowers.
Zeroes
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1102 Posts
November 19 2011 04:52 GMT
#25
I organized the NYC Barcraft and I didn't know he was there.
Check out my SC Lan pics Here: http://picasaweb.google.com/bunk.habit
Pulselol
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada1628 Posts
November 19 2011 06:24 GMT
#26
Shame that the comments on the article page is full of nothing but mindless, distasteful, and all around generally terrible attempts at trolling.
firehand101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3152 Posts
November 19 2011 06:32 GMT
#27
On November 19 2011 08:38 futurepaul wrote:
Thank you guys! I'm surprised nobody's pointed out any glaring factual errors yet. Means a ton that this doesn't sound like total BS to you all, because I hate when a "mainstream" pub tries to explain a video game I like and just ends up sounding like a condescending jerk about it. I'm on here a lot, never posted before though. Guess I'll have to start!

Lol hell yeah you will post! i will make you!
Great job man, you are an inspiration
The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12478 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-19 06:40:02
November 19 2011 06:34 GMT
#28
I have no idea why the site crash on me if I open it on google chrome and it lags when I open it in FF. ><
Nethertheless I read the whole thing and it was pretty good :D

(oh, seems it works in chrome if i go to homepage then load the article)
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Chaggi
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1936 Posts
November 19 2011 12:22 GMT
#29
The Verge is p awesome
Highways
Profile Joined July 2005
Australia6103 Posts
November 19 2011 12:43 GMT
#30
This Verge site is awesome.

As a daily reader of engadget, this site looks better.
#1 Terran hater
BillyHardcore
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark104 Posts
November 19 2011 13:01 GMT
#31
Might've missed it in that long article, but where's the TL plug??
SC + SC2 wouldn't be the same with this community spread in the wind..
One does not simply walk into maraudor
ELA
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark4608 Posts
November 19 2011 13:07 GMT
#32
Thanks for this article man, it was a pleasure to read.. I hope you'll do more Starcraft in the future

First time i've heard about Verge, bookmarked
The first link of chain forged, the first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.
Sanguinarius
Profile Joined January 2010
United States3427 Posts
November 19 2011 13:07 GMT
#33
That was an awesome read. Thanks for posting it.
Your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others -Heart of Darkness
Selkie
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States530 Posts
November 19 2011 13:11 GMT
#34
Link crashed my browser (Google Chrome)
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12022 Posts
November 19 2011 13:19 GMT
#35
Ok. As a huge fan of eve online I have to confess that till now I didn’t even know what SC is.
I read the whole thing, watched some YT videos and there you go… Downloading my copy as I write this.

Thank you!


This comment is why this article owns :D
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
November 19 2011 13:50 GMT
#36
Great read! What a wonderful ambassador of eSports.
Thank God and gunrun.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
November 19 2011 14:44 GMT
#37
There's so much good stuff in this article, but I really wish people would stop perpetuating the high APM exclusivity to young people only myth. In regards to this paragraph:

+ Show Spoiler +
APM brings to mind the "mechanics" of a top-level athlete, those skills and actions drilled so deeply into a player over years that they become unconscious. It sets the pros apart from the wannabes, and the young from the old. While StarCraft’s chess-like strategy could be accessible to anyone at any age, the high-level APM is only physically possible for the low-latency young (high school age to mid-twenties). Even if old age doesn't get you, carpal tunnel will. StarCraft II has reduced some of the click burden, but it's still not exactly Windows Solitaire.
The whole idea that high-level APM being physically possible by only young people is complete bullshit. I'll keep saying it until this stops, but any musician knows this to be true. I know plenty of 40+ year olds who have higher APM than many (and likely most) pro players, and I really wish the perpetuation of this idea would stop. There's just way to much documented evidence in the professional music world and elsewhere to put to rest this notion, yet this romanticized viewpoint of the wunderkind still happens...god it's annoying. Sorry, /rant

Again, really good article overall though.
Administrator
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
November 19 2011 17:00 GMT
#38
On November 19 2011 08:38 futurepaul wrote:
Thank you guys! I'm surprised nobody's pointed out any glaring factual errors yet. Means a ton that this doesn't sound like total BS to you all, because I hate when a "mainstream" pub tries to explain a video game I like and just ends up sounding like a condescending jerk about it. I'm on here a lot, never posted before though. Guess I'll have to start!


Dude, you deserve the praise!
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
o29
Profile Joined November 2010
United States220 Posts
November 19 2011 18:58 GMT
#39
On November 19 2011 08:38 futurepaul wrote:
Thank you guys! I'm surprised nobody's pointed out any glaring factual errors yet. Means a ton that this doesn't sound like total BS to you all, because I hate when a "mainstream" pub tries to explain a video game I like and just ends up sounding like a condescending jerk about it. I'm on here a lot, never posted before though. Guess I'll have to start!


Hey Paul! Been a fan since Engadget. Great article. I shared it with a few friends to hopefully help get some more exposure.

And maybe if you stick around awhile you can call yourself a silver player next season!
Modernist
Profile Joined March 2011
United States89 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-08 00:58:49
November 19 2011 19:42 GMT
#40
krowe
Profile Joined April 2010
United States184 Posts
November 19 2011 19:45 GMT
#41
Nice find, thanks for the share :D
bgx
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland6595 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-19 20:16:58
November 19 2011 20:13 GMT
#42
On November 19 2011 23:44 wo1fwood wrote:
There's so much good stuff in this article, but I really wish people would stop perpetuating the high APM exclusivity to young people only myth. In regards to this paragraph:

+ Show Spoiler +
APM brings to mind the "mechanics" of a top-level athlete, those skills and actions drilled so deeply into a player over years that they become unconscious. It sets the pros apart from the wannabes, and the young from the old. While StarCraft’s chess-like strategy could be accessible to anyone at any age, the high-level APM is only physically possible for the low-latency young (high school age to mid-twenties). Even if old age doesn't get you, carpal tunnel will. StarCraft II has reduced some of the click burden, but it's still not exactly Windows Solitaire.
The whole idea that high-level APM being physically possible by only young people is complete bullshit. I'll keep saying it until this stops, but any musician knows this to be true. I know plenty of 40+ year olds who have higher APM than many (and likely most) pro players, and I really wish the perpetuation of this idea would stop. There's just way to much documented evidence in the professional music world and elsewhere to put to rest this notion, yet this romanticized viewpoint of the wunderkind still happens...god it's annoying. Sorry, /rant

Again, really good article overall though.

starcraft needs higher-order cognition while playing an instrument will only require psycho-motoric skills.

Its not the question of your hands but more the question of your brain, and your brain will react slower after adultery. Not impossibility i agree. 30 yo proffesional player who dedicates his life to it completely can easily play at 400 apm professionally .60yo with the same practice, i dont think.

30yo still has good hands to perform 400 apm (so is musician), but his reactions will be slower when he ages, musician won't follow the exact same drawback, as his movements will be purely memory-execution(hand) based, not reaction based.

Im not an expert in music and in psychology so anyone can tell me if i am wrong.
Stork[gm]
1Focus
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States409 Posts
November 19 2011 20:13 GMT
#43
On November 19 2011 08:38 futurepaul wrote:
Thank you guys! I'm surprised nobody's pointed out any glaring factual errors yet. Means a ton that this doesn't sound like total BS to you all, because I hate when a "mainstream" pub tries to explain a video game I like and just ends up sounding like a condescending jerk about it. I'm on here a lot, never posted before though. Guess I'll have to start!


I loved the article hope you write more about starcraft 2 cuz i felt what u wrote was captivating and explained how much we trully love and enjoy this game....and gave this game and trully worthy article!!!

Great read!! Thanks !!!
Twitter: iF0CUS
Kmonx
Profile Joined October 2011
United States102 Posts
November 19 2011 20:32 GMT
#44
That was a great read. Thank you for posting this.
"Megapigs can fly, with Void Rays in the sky." - Day[9]
MaV_gGSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada1345 Posts
November 19 2011 20:33 GMT
#45
Aww yeah. Esports! :D <3
Life's good :D
-stOpSKY-
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada498 Posts
November 19 2011 20:38 GMT
#46
Really wicked read. Well written.
Galactus52
Profile Joined September 2011
United States36 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-19 21:13:44
November 19 2011 21:13 GMT
#47
That was a really fun read. Thanks for posting that, I would have never come across it if you hadn't.
CrazyF1r3f0x
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2120 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-19 21:23:38
November 19 2011 21:21 GMT
#48
On November 19 2011 08:38 futurepaul wrote:
Thank you guys! I'm surprised nobody's pointed out any glaring factual errors yet. Means a ton that this doesn't sound like total BS to you all, because I hate when a "mainstream" pub tries to explain a video game I like and just ends up sounding like a condescending jerk about it. I'm on here a lot, never posted before though. Guess I'll have to start!

As someone who has been playing/watching Starcraft since the alpha vidoes (and Played Brood War for like 2-3 years before that), I'd like to say you hit the nail on the head--not only is the article well written and intresting, but it was really down to earth, I think I could show this to my mom and she would get it (now that I think about it maybe I will :O). Also I love this quote:
"my typical game cycle involves obsessing over a title, reading the reviews, buying a copy, playing for a few hours, and never touching the game again. StarCraft II broke that cycle, but it also threatened to break me."


This is exactly what makes Starcraft so different then nearly everyother game--it's also what other gamers who don't have a game like starcraft fail to understand, they fail to see how it is much more then a game.

EDIT:
Show nested quote +
Ok. As a huge fan of eve online I have to confess that till now I didn’t even know what SC is.
I read the whole thing, watched some YT videos and there you go… Downloading my copy as I write this.

Thank you!



This comment is why this article owns :D

Sweet, hope whoever he is sticks around; maybe he'll even post on TL!
"Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the overcompensations for misery."
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10348 Posts
November 19 2011 21:39 GMT
#49
holy FUCK that is one long ass article, time to read! xD

Seems like really good, I read a couple parts and skimmed etc. I'm so happy to see such a high quality (it has pics and vids and all) article being written!
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
Earll
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Norway847 Posts
November 19 2011 22:01 GMT
#50
Great article, will start checking going to the verge instead of engadget xd
Wat
sTsCompleted
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States380 Posts
November 20 2011 01:47 GMT
#51
I think it's fair to say that the same is true for all of us here
scaban84
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1080 Posts
November 20 2011 02:18 GMT
#52
:D I am in one of the pictures at Legends!
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design." — Friedrich von Hayek
Nobodies
Profile Joined November 2011
France1 Post
November 20 2011 02:30 GMT
#53
PAY ATTENTION PLZ :
Someone needs to create a thread about this guy :

http://sc2ranks.com/eu/1761636/DarK

I was looking at the players of my division in master league, when suddenly i saw this guy with 2689 WINS for 5665 games !!!
Ok look... Season 4 has started in October 24th and i saw in his profile that he stopped playing last week, so he did this in 3 weeks ! I counted it was an average of 260 games a day !!! That's physically impossible (except if he freeloses and in the recent historic i saw that he played 15 min+ games)!!!
What's your explanation of this mess ?!!!

User was warned for this post
CrazyF1r3f0x
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2120 Posts
November 20 2011 05:01 GMT
#54
This article needs more attention man, seriously good stuff.
"Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the overcompensations for misery."
simmeh
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada2511 Posts
November 20 2011 05:04 GMT
#55
i love that article and i love the verge

good sh*t!!
byah!
nanoscorp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1237 Posts
November 20 2011 06:01 GMT
#56
On November 20 2011 06:21 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2011 08:38 futurepaul wrote:
Thank you guys! I'm surprised nobody's pointed out any glaring factual errors yet. Means a ton that this doesn't sound like total BS to you all, because I hate when a "mainstream" pub tries to explain a video game I like and just ends up sounding like a condescending jerk about it. I'm on here a lot, never posted before though. Guess I'll have to start!

As someone who has been playing/watching Starcraft since the alpha vidoes (and Played Brood War for like 2-3 years before that), I'd like to say you hit the nail on the head--not only is the article well written and intresting, but it was really down to earth, I think I could show this to my mom and she would get it (now that I think about it maybe I will :O). Also I love this quote:
Show nested quote +
"my typical game cycle involves obsessing over a title, reading the reviews, buying a copy, playing for a few hours, and never touching the game again. StarCraft II broke that cycle, but it also threatened to break me."


This is exactly what makes Starcraft so different then nearly everyother game--it's also what other gamers who don't have a game like starcraft fail to understand, they fail to see how it is much more then a game.

EDIT:
Show nested quote +
Ok. As a huge fan of eve online I have to confess that till now I didn’t even know what SC is.
I read the whole thing, watched some YT videos and there you go… Downloading my copy as I write this.

Thank you!



This comment is why this article owns :D

Sweet, hope whoever he is sticks around; maybe he'll even post on TL!


yeah, that quoted comment jumped out at me too. I think it speaks for the article and the infectious enthusiasm so many people have for this wonderful game
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
November 20 2011 06:03 GMT
#57
The guy certainly did his research. That is for sure.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
November 20 2011 14:27 GMT
#58
On November 20 2011 04:42 Modernist wrote:
Show nested quote +

On November 19 2011 23:44 wo1fwood wrote:
There's so much good stuff in this article, but I really wish people would stop perpetuating the high APM exclusivity to young people only myth. In regards to this paragraph:

+ Show Spoiler +
APM brings to mind the "mechanics" of a top-level athlete, those skills and actions drilled so deeply into a player over years that they become unconscious. It sets the pros apart from the wannabes, and the young from the old. While StarCraft’s chess-like strategy could be accessible to anyone at any age, the high-level APM is only physically possible for the low-latency young (high school age to mid-twenties). Even if old age doesn't get you, carpal tunnel will. StarCraft II has reduced some of the click burden, but it's still not exactly Windows Solitaire.
The whole idea that high-level APM being physically possible by only young people is complete bullshit. I'll keep saying it until this stops, but any musician knows this to be true. I know plenty of 40+ year olds who have higher APM than many (and likely most) pro players, and I really wish the perpetuation of this idea would stop. There's just way to much documented evidence in the professional music world and elsewhere to put to rest this notion, yet this romanticized viewpoint of the wunderkind still happens...god it's annoying. Sorry, /rant

Again, really good article overall though.

I have to disagree here.

The whole idea that high-level APM being physically possible by only young people is complete bullshit. I'll keep saying it until this stops, but any musician knows this to be true.

It is true that anyone can have high APM, but it isn't completely analogous to what musicians do.
A professional piano player for example doesn't always play music at a speed that's the equivalent of 300+ APM. While professional Starcraft is ALWAYS play at high speeds. Starcraft is also a much more mentally taxing activity. Combining this with the pressure of competitive success leads to relatively short professional careers.

I know plenty of 40+ year olds who have higher APM than many (and likely most) pro players, and I really wish the perpetuation of this idea would stop.

LOL Really? So how many of them are professional players? How long have they played at a professional level? Because I could spam 300+ APM too and I'm platinum. We're talking about consistently playing high-level games at high speeds for years!!!

There's just way to much documented evidence in the professional music world and elsewhere to put to rest this notion, yet this romanticized viewpoint of the wunderkind still happens...god it's annoying. Sorry, /rant

I think the whole point Paul was trying to make was that we only see "high-level APM" young players because it is so difficult to be consistently successful in professional Starcraft.

Don't wanna derail this topic too much. Just had to point that out.

I don't really see it as a stretch for a piano player having to play at incredibly fast speeds at a moments notice, for an extended period of time, and not be as efficient or have the same endurance as a professional SC player. In regards to your quip, I hope you realize I was comparing 40+ yr old musicians to pro SC players, not 40+ SC players.
On November 20 2011 05:13 bgx wrote:
Show nested quote +

On November 19 2011 23:44 wo1fwood wrote:
There's so much good stuff in this article, but I really wish people would stop perpetuating the high APM exclusivity to young people only myth. In regards to this paragraph:

+ Show Spoiler +
APM brings to mind the "mechanics" of a top-level athlete, those skills and actions drilled so deeply into a player over years that they become unconscious. It sets the pros apart from the wannabes, and the young from the old. While StarCraft’s chess-like strategy could be accessible to anyone at any age, the high-level APM is only physically possible for the low-latency young (high school age to mid-twenties). Even if old age doesn't get you, carpal tunnel will. StarCraft II has reduced some of the click burden, but it's still not exactly Windows Solitaire.
The whole idea that high-level APM being physically possible by only young people is complete bullshit. I'll keep saying it until this stops, but any musician knows this to be true. I know plenty of 40+ year olds who have higher APM than many (and likely most) pro players, and I really wish the perpetuation of this idea would stop. There's just way to much documented evidence in the professional music world and elsewhere to put to rest this notion, yet this romanticized viewpoint of the wunderkind still happens...god it's annoying. Sorry, /rant

Again, really good article overall though.

starcraft needs higher-order cognition while playing an instrument will only require psycho-motoric skills.

Its not the question of your hands but more the question of your brain, and your brain will react slower after adultery. Not impossibility i agree. 30 yo proffesional player who dedicates his life to it completely can easily play at 400 apm professionally .60yo with the same practice, i dont think.

30yo still has good hands to perform 400 apm (so is musician), but his reactions will be slower when he ages, musician won't follow the exact same drawback, as his movements will be purely memory-execution(hand) based, not reaction based.

Im not an expert in music and in psychology so anyone can tell me if i am wrong.

I'm not sure of your assertion regarding cognitive skill sets for musicians. Playing an instrument at the highest level requires much much more than just wrote regurgitation of physical actions, e.g. psycho-motoric, there's this whole, musicality issue/interpretation/adaptation that is conveniently not addressed. I'm not saying the mental requirements are the same for SC, which would be somewhat ridiculous, but you are devaluing musicians to a degree by saying that they just sit down and spit out a piece.

Regarding your second part, this is exactly what I mean, and thank you for being clear about it. My problem is that the nomenclature of what is being discussed falls under physical abilities, when in fact he may actually be discussing two different issues (physical + cognitive) that closely intertwine. Closely examining cognitive abilities in regards to age might show what he was talking about, but I don't know enough on the subject to speak to it with any authority, but I guess that was my point, are we defining cognitive processing speed as a physical impairment, or a mental one? If it's in the both category you can probably see why just making a blanket statement can be misleading.

...oh, and adulthood, not adultery...that's, uh, kind of different
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