EPTIt's not that bad Coca didn't take it that serious and left the game for a friend. There was no betting or anything involved.
Coca forfeits Code S due to ESV weekly scandal - Page 55
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
It's not that bad Coca didn't take it that serious and left the game for a friend. There was no betting or anything involved. | ||
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ThE)ShoWTimE
Italy213 Posts
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Dreamer.T
United States3584 Posts
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
Please understand that SlayerS is the premiere Korean SC2 team headed by a actress and the #1 legend of E-Sports that is partnered with the largest foreign SC2 team. The SlayerS image is mainly built around the image of Boxer himself: skills, honor, manners, and top notch play. One of their ace players does this and it tarnishes that image in a way. They do have quite a bit at stake all the time, so it's serious business to them, and I get it. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On November 15 2011 19:08 shadymmj wrote: to tell the truth, it only matters if they were playing serious games. if they were playing in a mini just for fun tournament, it becomes a lot less severe. idk which category the games fall into. Except they were entered by their respective teams to play in said tournament. This showed how lightly they considered their duties to their respective teams. | ||
ImbaTosS
United Kingdom1717 Posts
On November 15 2011 19:13 Holgerius wrote: You know, there's a reason why Korea is so far ahead of foreigners not only in terms of actual playing, but also in the whole infrastructure of E-sports (BW played on TV with huge companies like Samsung sponsoring their teams, with players making 100 000 dollars a year).... AND IT'S BECAUSE THEY TAKE THINGS FUCKING SERIOUSLY! I cannot fathom how you can see that as a negative thing. The guy is clearly just some casual-hardcore who doesn't really understand what keeps a pro-gaming scene driving. It all revolves around sponsors! Therefore it all revolves around image, so what do you do to maintain the faith of your sponsors when pros make a joke of the game? You say "this will absolutely not be tolerated", and then proceed to absolutely not tolerate it. Heavy repercussions are absolutely necessary. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On November 15 2011 19:13 Holgerius wrote: You know, there's a reason why Korea is so far ahead of foreigners not only in terms of actual playing, but also in the whole infrastructure of E-sports (BW played on TV with huge companies like Samsung sponsoring their teams, with players making 100 000 dollars a year).... AND IT'S BECAUSE THEY TAKE THINGS FUCKING SERIOUSLY! I cannot fathom how you can see that as a negative thing. Korea is not " so far ahead of foreigners". People need to relax a bit, it's still a game, we should not get to what bw was in term of rules. Hearing about the " if you say pp instead of ppp" in broodwar for example still make me roll my eyes. I know it's bad, and Coca should not be forgive just like that, but kick from the team, ban from the GSL and all ? Comon, it's just a kid who was a bit naive.. | ||
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BaLLz(SVK)
Netherlands42 Posts
I do not condone collusion and I completely agree that both should be punished, but I think people are overreacting and comparing this to the SAvior incident. Temporary banning him from tournaments is a given, kicking him from the team house is the internal decision of Slayers and nobody can argue with that since we don' really know what kind of internal rules they have. However, Coca "forfeiting" his code S spot is too harsh. He fought for his spot hard. | ||
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forSeohyun
504 Posts
On November 15 2011 19:29 Noocta wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 15 2011 19:13 Holgerius wrote: You know, there's a reason why Korea is so far ahead of foreigners not only in terms of actual playing, but also in the whole infrastructure of E-sports (BW played on TV with huge companies like Samsung sponsoring their teams, with players making 100 000 dollars a year).... AND IT'S BECAUSE THEY TAKE THINGS FUCKING SERIOUSLY! I cannot fathom how you can see that as a negative thing. Korea is not " so far ahead of foreigners". People need to relax a bit, it's still a game, we should not get to what bw was in term of rules. Hearing about the " if you say pp instead of ppp" in broodwar for example still make me roll my eyes. I know it's bad, and Coca should not be forgive just like that, but kick from the team, ban from the GSL and all ? Comon, it's just a kid who was a bit naive.. As far as we know: 1. No one has been kicked from their team. 2. No one has been banned from the GSL. 3. That is pretty much it. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On November 15 2011 19:23 ImbaTosS wrote: The guy is clearly just some casual-hardcore who doesn't really understand what keeps a pro-gaming scene driving. It all revolves around sponsors! Therefore it all revolves around image, so what do you do to maintain the faith of your sponsors when pros make a joke of the game? You say "this will absolutely not be tolerated", and then proceed to absolutely not tolerate it. Heavy repercussions are absolutely necessary. I agree with this 100%, when you deal with other people's money (sponsors, investors, etc), YOU. DO. NOT. FUCK. AROUND. Both Byun and CoCa get salaries from their respective teams. In turn, these teams get their money for salaries from sponsors. These sponsors expect publicity from these teams. Good publicity. Not news that their players colluded to fix a match in-play and then sent it for casting for everyone to see. This is the equivalent of grand theft auto on a police squad car while the cops are on their coffee break... as they watch the car from the donut shop. | ||
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Pangpootata
1838 Posts
Junkka's analogy about killing a rich man or a homeless man is a flawed analogy. In savior's match fixing case, he harmed himself and his whole team for monetary benefit, while coca made a personal decision that only harmed himself. The analogy should have been between killing (or harming) yourself and your whole team for the sake of money, or just yourself to help a friend, of which the second one can actually be considered a noble action. Besides, what coca and byun did was not harmful to competition at all. Firstly, coca's actions were not harmful to other competitors. Since coca could have won byun, it proves that coca is a better player than byun. Henceforth, byun's opponents should have an easier time beating him than if they had to face coca. Therefore, the whole field of competition, besides coca himself, stood to benefit competitively from coca's loss. Some may complain that not playing one's best would ruin the standard of games, but progamers in fact routinely play badly for fun such as mothership rushing by Huk. Moreover, forcing one to compete against one's will won't produce entertaining games anyway. In addition to that, even more blatant match fixing such as stork's hilarious loss to whitera in WCG 2007 have happened before, and nobody really cared. Progamers frequently treat competitive matches non-seriously such as july using terran in an official proleague match, and nobody cares. It is my strong suspicion that the overreaction to this was in light of savior's match fixing scandal. If my suspicions are true, it would go to show how some people easily change their standards and judge things based on emotional impulses rather than logic and reason. Such actions can only hurt esports. Coca should've just quit SlayerS. I'm sure there are many reasonable teams out there which would admire his talent. | ||
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Carnagath
230 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On November 15 2011 19:36 Pangpootata wrote: Just lost respect for the key people of SlayerS and Prime for imposing overly harsh punishment for something trivial, possibly to pander to popular public opinion. Junkka's analogy about killing a rich man or a homeless man is a flawed analogy. In savior's match fixing case, he harmed himself and his whole team for monetary benefit, while coca made a personal decision that only harmed himself. The analogy should have been between killing (or harming) yourself and your whole team for the sake of money, or just yourself to help a friend, of which the second one can actually be considered a noble action. Besides, what coca and byun did was not harmful to competition at all. Firstly, coca's actions were not harmful to other competitors. Since coca could have won byun, it proves that coca is a better player than byun. Henceforth, byun's opponents should have an easier time beating him than if they had to face coca. Therefore, the whole field of competition, besides coca himself, stood to benefit competitively from coca's loss. Some may complain that not playing one's best would ruin the standard of games, but progamers in fact routinely play badly for fun such as mothership rushing by Huk. Moreover, forcing one to compete against one's will won't produce entertaining games anyway. In addition to that, even more blatant match fixing such as stork's hilarious loss to whitera in WCG 2007 have happened before, and nobody really cared. Progamers frequently treat competitive matches non-seriously such as july using terran in an official proleague match, and nobody cares. It is my strong suspicion that the overreaction to this was in light of savior's match fixing scandal. If my suspicions are true, it would go to show how some people easily change their standards and judge things based on emotional impulses rather than logic and reason. Such actions can only hurt esports. Coca should've just quit SlayerS. I'm sure there are many reasonable teams out there which would admire his talent. Match fixing has already done enough harm to the bw scene and I believed boxer and slayers wouldn't have wanted such nonsense to spread in to the sc2 scene also . Hence the heavy repercussion impose by slayers on these coca player . Too bad for coca though . Looking at how he commented in game with that kind of attitude , I wonder how mature the player is . Luckily broodwar we do not have to deal with these kind of thing anymore . Kespa handle's thing nicely <3 | ||
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Nouar
France3270 Posts
On November 15 2011 19:36 Pangpootata wrote: Just lost respect for the key people of SlayerS and Prime for imposing overly harsh punishment for something trivial, possibly to pander to popular public opinion. Junkka's analogy about killing a rich man or a homeless man is a flawed analogy. In savior's match fixing case, he harmed himself and his whole team for monetary benefit, while coca made a personal decision that only harmed himself. The analogy should have been between killing (or harming) yourself and your whole team for the sake of money, or just yourself to help a friend, of which the second one can actually be considered a noble action. Besides, what coca and byun did was not harmful to competition at all. Firstly, coca's actions were not harmful to other competitors. Since coca could have won byun, it proves that coca is a better player than byun. Henceforth, byun's opponents should have an easier time beating him than if they had to face coca. Therefore, the whole field of competition, besides coca himself, stood to benefit competitively from coca's loss. Some may complain that not playing one's best would ruin the standard of games, but progamers in fact routinely play badly for fun such as mothership rushing by Huk. Moreover, forcing one to compete against one's will won't produce entertaining games anyway. In addition to that, even more blatant match fixing such as stork's hilarious loss to whitera in WCG 2007 have happened before, and nobody really cared. Progamers frequently treat competitive matches non-seriously such as july using terran in an official proleague match, and nobody cares. It is my strong suspicion that the overreaction to this was in light of savior's match fixing scandal. If my suspicions are true, it would go to show how some people easily change their standards and judge things based on emotional impulses rather than logic and reason. Such actions can only hurt esports. Coca should've just quit SlayerS. I'm sure there are many reasonable teams out there which would admire his talent. I COMPLETELY disagree with each and every point you made and i'm sure i'm not the only one. Sadly i'm at work and can't really argue or explain... Just read the 2 previous pages and the post by diamond a few posts above yours please. | ||
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FidoDido
United States1292 Posts
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
On November 15 2011 19:35 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: I agree with this 100%, when you deal with other people's money (sponsors, investors, etc), YOU. DO. NOT. FUCK. AROUND. Both Byun and CoCa get salaries from their respective teams. In turn, these teams get their money for salaries from sponsors. These sponsors expect publicity from these teams. Good publicity. Not news that their players colluded to fix a match in-play and then sent it for casting for everyone to see. This is the equivalent of grand theft auto on a police squad car while the cops are on their coffee break... as they watch the car from the donut shop. Hasn't it been established that Korean players hardly get salaries? | ||
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Legio
Sweden235 Posts
Also, they probably need Cocas bunk bed for Soccer  | ||
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Zeon0
Austria2995 Posts
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Grettin
42412 Posts
On November 15 2011 19:45 pdd wrote: Hasn't it been established that Korean players hardly get salaries? I assume we are talking about SC2 here. I'd believe some does get, but nothing big at all. But i have the same feeling that most doesn't get anything. | ||
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Origine
France167 Posts
On November 15 2011 19:45 FidoDido wrote: or Huk vs Nestea at ro16 GSL... except I doubt anyone will confess to their crimes after this! FUN POLICE TIME nestea should be banned from code s trolololo | ||
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