EPTCoca forfeits Code S due to ESV weekly scandal - Page 56
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RaLakedaimon
United States1564 Posts
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DeadBull
421 Posts
This and now that NesTea vs HuK game... WHY LIM JAE DUK ? WHYY | ||
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
On November 15 2011 18:52 ImbaTosS wrote: Way to support matchfixing. Take it a bit more seriously ffs. It makes a travesty of competition when you have one player just saying "meh, this competition is irrelevant so I'm going to help you cheat, make the fans feel stupid for acting like what they love to watch is irrelevant, and also for supporting me in the first place". Friendship doesn't kill esports? Honestly, some meme isn't going to make your point more valid. You know what friendship is in a sport? Ever played for a sports team? You are told to get out on the field and play to win just as hard as ever. Don't ever act like someone is your friend when you're playing against them- not until after the match is done. That's just how professional sport works, otherwise it's frankly pointless. This is no different. How's that supporting matchfixing? Forfeits happen all the time in the ESV tournaments. It wouldn't have been an issue if he had forfeited. But actually submitting that replay of them blatantly throwing games was what was at wrong. | ||
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Pangpootata
1838 Posts
On November 15 2011 19:45 Sawamura wrote: Match fixing has already done enough harm to the bw scene and I believed boxer and slayers wouldn't have wanted such nonsense to spread in to the sc2 scene also . Hence the heavy repercussion impose by slayers on these coca player . Too bad for coca though . Looking at how he commented in game with that kind of attitude , I wonder how mature the player is . Luckily broodwar we do not have to deal with these kind of thing anymore . Kespa handle's thing nicely <3 Already explained how comparing this to savior's match fixing is flawed. On November 15 2011 19:45 Nouar wrote: I COMPLETELY disagree with each and every point you made and i'm sure i'm not the only one. Sadly i'm at work and can't really argue or explain... Just read the 2 previous pages and the post by diamond a few posts above yours please. Yes, I understand that majority of the public is against coca, and corporations that sponsor the team as well as the team itself have to maintain their image. However, such drastic measures taken are best seen as pandering to public opinion with disregard for reason. Sure, from a commercial standpoint, it is the optimum thing to do, but is it the right thing to do? It is thoroughly unfair to coca, who is losing his code S salary, and I'm sure most people know that B-team progamers at best only barely eke out a living. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On November 15 2011 19:36 Pangpootata wrote: Just lost respect for the key people of SlayerS and Prime for imposing overly harsh punishment for something trivial, possibly to pander to popular public opinion. Junkka's analogy about killing a rich man or a homeless man is a flawed analogy. In savior's match fixing case, he harmed himself and his whole team for monetary benefit, while coca made a personal decision that only harmed himself. The analogy should have been between killing (or harming) yourself and your whole team for the sake of money, or just yourself to help a friend, of which the second one can actually be considered a noble action. Besides, what coca and byun did was not harmful to competition at all. Firstly, coca's actions were not harmful to other competitors. Since coca could have won byun, it proves that coca is a better player than byun. Henceforth, byun's opponents should have an easier time beating him than if they had to face coca. Therefore, the whole field of competition, besides coca himself, stood to benefit competitively from coca's loss. Some may complain that not playing one's best would ruin the standard of games, but progamers in fact routinely play badly for fun such as mothership rushing by Huk. Moreover, forcing one to compete against one's will won't produce entertaining games anyway. In addition to that, even more blatant match fixing such as stork's hilarious loss to whitera in WCG 2007 have happened before, and nobody really cared. Progamers frequently treat competitive matches non-seriously such as july using terran in an official proleague match, and nobody cares. It is my strong suspicion that the overreaction to this was in light of savior's match fixing scandal. If my suspicions are true, it would go to show how some people easily change their standards and judge things based on emotional impulses rather than logic and reason. Such actions can only hurt esports. Coca should've just quit SlayerS. I'm sure there are many reasonable teams out there which would admire his talent. 1) His actions called to question his integrity as a sportsman. He threw a match due to external factors. The other showed he was willing to cheat to win. 2) So it's noble to throw a match for your friend at the cost of the reputation of the team you represent? 3a) So it's not harmful to know that a competition's winner could have won because of friendship and not because of his insane macro, micro and good tactics. 3b) So because they didn't like it, they can do whatever they want on company/team time. 4) We can't force the manager of the top football team to field his best players against a bottom league team but we can force the manager from blatantly throwing the game by fielding all eleven players from the reserve squad. 5) Maybe AZK will take him. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On November 15 2011 19:52 Pangpootata wrote: Already explained how comparing this to savior's match fixing is flawed. Yes, I understand that majority of the public is against coca, and corporations that sponsor the team as well as the team itself have to maintain their image. However, such drastic measures taken are best seen as pandering to public opinion with disregard for reason. Sure, from a commercial standpoint, it is the optimum thing to do, but is it the right thing to do? It is thoroughly unfair to coca, who is losing his code S salary, and I'm sure most people know that B-team progamers at best only barely eke out a living. Match fixing in any form is not acceptable . | ||
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Project Psycho
United Kingdom329 Posts
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Remb
United States190 Posts
In my opinion, NesTea is extremely overrated. Championships are not necessarily the ultimate gauge of player skill. And also I fear that Artosis' worship of certain players has caused severely overrated opinions of player skill. As for the CoCa fiasco, realize that the teams SlayerS/Prime are setting a harsh precedent because they do not want this to affect the growing SC2 e-sport. | ||
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nanospartan
649 Posts
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On November 15 2011 19:55 Project Psycho wrote: Byun is just as much to blame for this too, where is the hate for him? Byun hater here. He should consider a career as a hustler. He certainly nuked his friend's career for a $50.00 prize pool. | ||
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TheBamf
Denmark366 Posts
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Leru
Romania257 Posts
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Pangpootata
1838 Posts
On November 15 2011 19:52 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: 1) His actions called to question his integrity as a sportsman. He threw a match due to external factors. The other showed he was willing to cheat to win. 2) So it's noble to throw a match for your friend at the cost of the reputation of the team you represent? 3a) So it's not harmful to know that a competition's winner could have won because of friendship and not because of his insane macro, micro and good tactics. 3b) So because they didn't like it, they can do whatever they want on company/team time. 4) We can't force the manager of the top football team to field his best players against a bottom league team but we can force the manager from blatantly throwing the game by fielding all eleven players from the reserve squad. 5) Maybe AZK will take him. 1) Coca's actions reflect total integrity. From wikipedia "integrity is regarded as the honesty and truthfulness or accuracy of one's actions". Coca was honest, truthful, that's why he did not try to hide the fact that he let byun win, and Coca was consistent in upholding his friendship. Don't know whether you misunderstand the concept of integrity or something. Besides, byun asked coca to let him win in jest, and was probably surprised that coca was willing to. It was spontaneous rather than premeditated, any byun probably wasn't thinking of cheating. 2) The team's reputation only took a beating because poorly reasoned public opinion was strongly against coca. It is more so the fault of the public than coca. If the public didn't react badly, it would not have harmed the team's reputation. 3a) No it's not. In this case byun didn't win, but if byun had won the competition, then we would have known that he is at least better than everyone else (except coca), and since coca let him win, then so be it. 3b) They probably didn't consider that at that time, which is admittedly their fault. But then again, such actions only hurt the company/team name because of public backlash, which would not have happened if the public was more understanding (as per 2). 4) Sorry, don't know what this point is supposed to mean. 5) Gus might not want to pay for Coca's travel expenses. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
Pretty harsh punishment though, I think being slapped around by Boxer a bit and an apology to the community would have sufficed. This wasn't anything like what SaviOr did. | ||
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Femari
United States2900 Posts
I like the guy admittedly, he's one of my favorite players. But this is an overreaction. The kid needs to grow up, make him grow up and move on. People do make mistakes, especially when they're young. Just make him stay out of the scene for like 2-3 months and then bring him back once he's learned his lesson. He shouldn't be hated for one slip up. | ||
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thOr6136
Slovenia1775 Posts
On November 15 2011 19:18 Project Psycho wrote: How could anyone with common sense make this big of a mistake when they know everyone is watching? This just proves to me that a lot of top korean players are just dumb robots, all they work on is there mechanics and just copy other peoples builds, they just play that much that they can beat most people just on mechanics alone, there is almost no intelligence involved at all, even Tyler and Idra have said the same thing. that's harsh dude ~_~ | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
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zOula...
United States898 Posts
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
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