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On November 02 2011 02:18 ypolt wrote:
Tried to skim through all the pages as best I could, so sorry if this has been brought up, but..
It would be interesting to know what the team's sponsors stance on any proposed boycotts would be?
Like, lets say a MAJOR tournament would be known for not paying out their prize money.
Would the team's sponsors still want the player to participate because of the exposure or would they stand by the player's decision not to participate?
Also it kinda feels like any boycott should come from the spectators and not the players.
Spectators bring in the sponsors, right? So by not watching we could help the players alot more than a few players chosing not to participate could, I guess.
there was one respond from fxoboss iirc, saying they (as a team) aren't sending players to e.g. iem events because of the known issue of late late pay outs. so the player participates at his own costs/risks.
also it's very important to point out, that most tournaments DO pay out! it's about the time it takes them to do so (varies between 0 days - over a year).
and it seems like some tournaments have problems with their own sponsors not paying in time/amount promised.
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On November 01 2011 06:23 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 06:00 ThisGS wrote:
So many people in this thread think ESL doesnt pay.
Thats WRONG.
They always pay, just really, really slow.
As Carmac posted, its a bit better @ IEM events than national events (eps) / random other cups That is a really bad way to put it. Time changes the value of money. It's not the same thing come late. It's something different. Withholding payment for so long is like requiring every prize winner to give ESL a free loan for the amount of money won for the period of time the money is withheld. Loans shouldn't be free. ESL should pay promptly or pay a late fee or pay interest. Otherwise they absolutely are exploiting their players.
nvm LOL
i guess i didn't understand main thing about this post and I shouldn't pull my shit from hat out of nowhere and BM him, when Tyler adresses the problem
Sorry.
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Somewhat related - I won a Steelseries competition like 3 months ago, some Steelseries gear (Siberia headset, 6gv2, Sensei-mouse a J!nx-jacket and some other stuff) - E-mailed them 4 times, still not even sure if they sent the stuff 
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On November 02 2011 02:47 Larryx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 06:23 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On November 01 2011 06:00 ThisGS wrote:
So many people in this thread think ESL doesnt pay.
Thats WRONG.
They always pay, just really, really slow.
As Carmac posted, its a bit better @ IEM events than national events (eps) / random other cups That is a really bad way to put it. Time changes the value of money. It's not the same thing come late. It's something different. Withholding payment for so long is like requiring every prize winner to give ESL a free loan for the amount of money won for the period of time the money is withheld. Loans shouldn't be free. ESL should pay promptly or pay a late fee or pay interest. Otherwise they absolutely are exploiting their players. Don't worry Tyler, you'll never qualify for IEM so won't happen to you 
What's up with the BM, Tyler is awesome!! Always nice to hear on Sotg!
Tyler fighting!!!!!
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On November 02 2011 02:47 Larryx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 06:23 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On November 01 2011 06:00 ThisGS wrote:
So many people in this thread think ESL doesnt pay.
Thats WRONG.
They always pay, just really, really slow.
As Carmac posted, its a bit better @ IEM events than national events (eps) / random other cups That is a really bad way to put it. Time changes the value of money. It's not the same thing come late. It's something different. Withholding payment for so long is like requiring every prize winner to give ESL a free loan for the amount of money won for the period of time the money is withheld. Loans shouldn't be free. ESL should pay promptly or pay a late fee or pay interest. Otherwise they absolutely are exploiting their players. Don't worry Tyler, you'll never qualify for IEM so won't happen to you
Wtf is this... you obviously don't know who Tyler is.
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On November 02 2011 02:47 Larryx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 06:23 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On November 01 2011 06:00 ThisGS wrote:
So many people in this thread think ESL doesnt pay.
Thats WRONG.
They always pay, just really, really slow.
As Carmac posted, its a bit better @ IEM events than national events (eps) / random other cups That is a really bad way to put it. Time changes the value of money. It's not the same thing come late. It's something different. Withholding payment for so long is like requiring every prize winner to give ESL a free loan for the amount of money won for the period of time the money is withheld. Loans shouldn't be free. ESL should pay promptly or pay a late fee or pay interest. Otherwise they absolutely are exploiting their players. Don't worry Tyler, you'll never qualify for IEM so won't happen to you
I wish I could report you....
OT: If Tournaments go past their time in the contracts their has to be some consequences. I agree, but think of it this way if they have a hard time paying players in general then how do we expect a late fee lol. In my whole opinion, if a tournament can't pay within 60-90 days they shouldn't run a tournament.
Edit: they're plenty of good tournaments that do pay within that time frame, and obviously we love having them all although I'm sure players wish money would be instant. It seems with the current workings people aren't coughing up the cash quickly, nor am I sure what to do to change that. I just hope that this problem can be solved within 2012 so we can have plenty more years of the wonder that is ESPORTS! :D
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On November 02 2011 02:47 Larryx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 06:23 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On November 01 2011 06:00 ThisGS wrote:
So many people in this thread think ESL doesnt pay.
Thats WRONG.
They always pay, just really, really slow.
As Carmac posted, its a bit better @ IEM events than national events (eps) / random other cups That is a really bad way to put it. Time changes the value of money. It's not the same thing come late. It's something different. Withholding payment for so long is like requiring every prize winner to give ESL a free loan for the amount of money won for the period of time the money is withheld. Loans shouldn't be free. ESL should pay promptly or pay a late fee or pay interest. Otherwise they absolutely are exploiting their players. Don't worry Tyler, you'll never qualify for IEM so won't happen to you
So what does that have to do with his stance on payment? It's true the longer it is held the less it is worth.
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On November 02 2011 01:59 csn_JohnClark wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 01:49 MadNeSs wrote:Reading all this makes me so sad . I thought esports had gotten farther than this, the last few years . But I guess not. Instead of constantly bashing on organizations that have been around for 10 years and DO pay.. even if slow (not acceptable over 60-90 days).. we should start looking at the organizations that do not pay at all or that have very poor communication regarding payment.
This. 'Nuff said.
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On November 02 2011 02:53 Ammoth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 02:47 Larryx wrote:On November 01 2011 06:23 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On November 01 2011 06:00 ThisGS wrote:
So many people in this thread think ESL doesnt pay.
Thats WRONG.
They always pay, just really, really slow.
As Carmac posted, its a bit better @ IEM events than national events (eps) / random other cups That is a really bad way to put it. Time changes the value of money. It's not the same thing come late. It's something different. Withholding payment for so long is like requiring every prize winner to give ESL a free loan for the amount of money won for the period of time the money is withheld. Loans shouldn't be free. ESL should pay promptly or pay a late fee or pay interest. Otherwise they absolutely are exploiting their players. Don't worry Tyler, you'll never qualify for IEM so won't happen to you What's up with the BM, Tyler is awesome!! Always nice to hear on Sotg! Tyler fighting!!!!!
Yup you're right, sorry for the BM.
About sotg, dont get me wrong. I love the show, its freaking hilarious but sometimes my ears are hurt when artosis claims that he is never wrong and gsl is from another planet and nobody can beat a code s player. Also statements that u can't be big unless u spend in korea long amount of time is bullshit too.
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On November 02 2011 03:15 Larryx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 02:53 Ammoth wrote:On November 02 2011 02:47 Larryx wrote:On November 01 2011 06:23 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On November 01 2011 06:00 ThisGS wrote:
So many people in this thread think ESL doesnt pay.
Thats WRONG.
They always pay, just really, really slow.
As Carmac posted, its a bit better @ IEM events than national events (eps) / random other cups That is a really bad way to put it. Time changes the value of money. It's not the same thing come late. It's something different. Withholding payment for so long is like requiring every prize winner to give ESL a free loan for the amount of money won for the period of time the money is withheld. Loans shouldn't be free. ESL should pay promptly or pay a late fee or pay interest. Otherwise they absolutely are exploiting their players. Don't worry Tyler, you'll never qualify for IEM so won't happen to you What's up with the BM, Tyler is awesome!! Always nice to hear on Sotg! Tyler fighting!!!!! It's not BM, it's honest truth. Tyler is stuck in broodwar days when he was a big star and won't go to any event outside of US unless they invite him(DH). And about sotg, dont get me wrong. I love the show, its freaking hilarious but sometimes my ears are hurt when artosis claims that he is never wrong and gsl is from another planet and nobody can beat a code s player. Also statements that u can't be big unless u spend in korea long amount of time is bullshit too.
Maybe.. but why do you feel the need to rub that in his face when he's discussing prize money and payouts? Has no relevance at all to the discussion. You just come off as BM to me.
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On November 02 2011 03:15 Larryx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 02:53 Ammoth wrote:On November 02 2011 02:47 Larryx wrote:On November 01 2011 06:23 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On November 01 2011 06:00 ThisGS wrote:
So many people in this thread think ESL doesnt pay.
Thats WRONG.
They always pay, just really, really slow.
As Carmac posted, its a bit better @ IEM events than national events (eps) / random other cups That is a really bad way to put it. Time changes the value of money. It's not the same thing come late. It's something different. Withholding payment for so long is like requiring every prize winner to give ESL a free loan for the amount of money won for the period of time the money is withheld. Loans shouldn't be free. ESL should pay promptly or pay a late fee or pay interest. Otherwise they absolutely are exploiting their players. Don't worry Tyler, you'll never qualify for IEM so won't happen to you What's up with the BM, Tyler is awesome!! Always nice to hear on Sotg! Tyler fighting!!!!! It's not BM, it's honest truth. Tyler is stuck in broodwar days when he was a big star and won't go to any event outside of US unless they invite him(DH). And about sotg, dont get me wrong. I love the show, its freaking hilarious but sometimes my ears are hurt when artosis claims that he is never wrong and gsl is from another planet and nobody can beat a code s player. Also statements that u can't be big unless u spend in korea long amount of time is bullshit too.
Pretty sure near 100% of the top foreigners that win events have spent time in Korea.
And yes, it's BM.
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If ESWC pays out, will ClouD publicly apologize and set the record straight ? Or will he continues to cry his eyes out because he is too uneducated to even understand the basics of private informations ?
User was warned for this post
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On November 02 2011 03:17 meRz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 03:15 Larryx wrote:On November 02 2011 02:53 Ammoth wrote:On November 02 2011 02:47 Larryx wrote:On November 01 2011 06:23 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On November 01 2011 06:00 ThisGS wrote:
So many people in this thread think ESL doesnt pay.
Thats WRONG.
They always pay, just really, really slow.
As Carmac posted, its a bit better @ IEM events than national events (eps) / random other cups That is a really bad way to put it. Time changes the value of money. It's not the same thing come late. It's something different. Withholding payment for so long is like requiring every prize winner to give ESL a free loan for the amount of money won for the period of time the money is withheld. Loans shouldn't be free. ESL should pay promptly or pay a late fee or pay interest. Otherwise they absolutely are exploiting their players. Don't worry Tyler, you'll never qualify for IEM so won't happen to you What's up with the BM, Tyler is awesome!! Always nice to hear on Sotg! Tyler fighting!!!!! It's not BM, it's honest truth. Tyler is stuck in broodwar days when he was a big star and won't go to any event outside of US unless they invite him(DH). And about sotg, dont get me wrong. I love the show, its freaking hilarious but sometimes my ears are hurt when artosis claims that he is never wrong and gsl is from another planet and nobody can beat a code s player. Also statements that u can't be big unless u spend in korea long amount of time is bullshit too. Maybe.. but why do you feel the need to rub that in his face when he's discussing prize money and payouts? Has no relevance at all to the discussion. You just come off as BM to me.
Now that i think of it you're right
I'm sorry, won't happen again.
On November 02 2011 02:55 Sylverin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 02:47 Larryx wrote:On November 01 2011 06:23 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On November 01 2011 06:00 ThisGS wrote:
So many people in this thread think ESL doesnt pay.
Thats WRONG.
They always pay, just really, really slow.
As Carmac posted, its a bit better @ IEM events than national events (eps) / random other cups That is a really bad way to put it. Time changes the value of money. It's not the same thing come late. It's something different. Withholding payment for so long is like requiring every prize winner to give ESL a free loan for the amount of money won for the period of time the money is withheld. Loans shouldn't be free. ESL should pay promptly or pay a late fee or pay interest. Otherwise they absolutely are exploiting their players. Don't worry Tyler, you'll never qualify for IEM so won't happen to you I wish I could report you....
I dont see my post being banned when naniwa is called somone piece of... 3x times in this thread.
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On November 02 2011 02:47 Larryx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 06:23 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On November 01 2011 06:00 ThisGS wrote:
So many people in this thread think ESL doesnt pay.
Thats WRONG.
They always pay, just really, really slow.
As Carmac posted, its a bit better @ IEM events than national events (eps) / random other cups That is a really bad way to put it. Time changes the value of money. It's not the same thing come late. It's something different. Withholding payment for so long is like requiring every prize winner to give ESL a free loan for the amount of money won for the period of time the money is withheld. Loans shouldn't be free. ESL should pay promptly or pay a late fee or pay interest. Otherwise they absolutely are exploiting their players. Don't worry Tyler, you'll never qualify for IEM so won't happen to you
Are you a retard? What does that have to do with his argument? This kind of ad hominem fallacy reveals to the world the idiot that you are. Actually I am sure the world must have known this before you said that.
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the LAST thing anyone needs is a regulatory body
just look at the world to see how they end up fucking th elittle guy over and doing everything they can to suck the balls of people with the money ... why? ... because they only have legitimacy whilst the copmanies with the money play their game.
TAke em to court.
If they pay you late ... they owe you interest. Its pretty black and white in uk law.
TBH they should also be paying you not to tell everyone what a bunch of assholes they are.
You do not promise someone money for work and withold the money upon completion ... that is theft/fraud.
By paying people late you seriously fuck up their cash flow - and i'm suprised if they cant be held liable for damages as a result. These things need to be agreed in advance.
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On November 02 2011 03:19 Otolia wrote:
If ESWC pays out, will ClouD publicly apologize and set the record straight ? Or will he continues to cry his eyes out because he is too uneducated to even understand the basics of private informations ?
Are you seriously white knighting a tournament organization? Do you only do this for French ones or what? What have they done to earn your trust, besides be French? Why would ClouD publicly apologize for stating something that is correct, especially given ESWC's past? New owners or not, they are the ones who chose to keep the brand and thus all the bad things associated with it. The only thing he could be faulted for is being too hasty, but this is entirely understandable given his experiences with other organizations.
The whole notion that a player should publicly apologize to a company for hurting their brand is ludicrous
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On November 02 2011 03:19 Otolia wrote:
If ESWC pays out, will ClouD publicly apologize and set the record straight ? Or will he continues to cry his eyes out because he is too uneducated to even understand the basics of private informations ?
this post is so retarded on so many levels i wont even go into discussing it
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On November 02 2011 03:27 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 03:19 Otolia wrote:
If ESWC pays out, will ClouD publicly apologize and set the record straight ? Or will he continues to cry his eyes out because he is too uneducated to even understand the basics of private informations ?
Are you seriously white knighting a tournament organization? Do you only do this for French ones or what? Why would ClouD publicly apologize for stating something that is correct, especially given ESWC's past? New owners or not, they are the ones who chose to keep the brand and thus all the bad things associated with it
Yes the 2008 Finals weren't paid. And they will NEVER be paid. NEVER EVER. Is that clear enough for you ? The company was abandonned by its american sponsors who wanted the tournament to come to the USA with the results we all know.
The 2010 and 2011 editions had all prizes on a separate bank account. The 2010 finals was paid within a month. ClouD used his name as a leverage and it seriously damaged the image of the organization that still has a rather bad reputation. When you make a tournament in a public area you have to focus on clearing the area first. Paying out prizes isn't as urgent as giving back the space you are lending. That took approx. a week. Which led us to today. After that the paper work starts.
And I white-knight the tournament because no tournament in the western world has ever attained the magic I saw in 2006 in Bercy. I would do the same if I'd loved the Assembly ...
On November 02 2011 03:29 darlhet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 03:19 Otolia wrote:
If ESWC pays out, will ClouD publicly apologize and set the record straight ? Or will he continues to cry his eyes out because he is too uneducated to even understand the basics of private informations ?
this post is so retarded on so many levels i wont even go into discussing it
Don't worry, my post may be 'retarded' doesn't mean I am, on the contrary the same cannot be said for you since you obviously lack critical brain functions such as criticism.
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On November 02 2011 03:19 Otolia wrote:
If ESWC pays out, will ClouD publicly apologize and set the record straight ? Or will he continues to cry his eyes out because he is too uneducated to even understand the basics of private informations ?
Why should he apologize ? Because he didn't get his money in time and stated that to the public ?
What the FUCK ? They didn't even ask him about his bank details.
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On November 02 2011 03:35 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 03:27 syllogism wrote:On November 02 2011 03:19 Otolia wrote:
If ESWC pays out, will ClouD publicly apologize and set the record straight ? Or will he continues to cry his eyes out because he is too uneducated to even understand the basics of private informations ?
Are you seriously white knighting a tournament organization? Do you only do this for French ones or what? Why would ClouD publicly apologize for stating something that is correct, especially given ESWC's past? New owners or not, they are the ones who chose to keep the brand and thus all the bad things associated with it Yes the 2008 Finals weren't paid. And they will NEVER be paid. NEVER EVER. Is that clear enough for you ? The company was abandonned by its american sponsors who wanted the tournament to come to the USA with the results we all know. The 2010 and 2011 editions had all prizes on a separate bank account. The 2010 finals was paid within a month. ClouD used his name as a leverage and it seriously damaged the image of the organization that still has a rather bad reputation. When you make a tournament in a public area you have to focus on clearing the area first. Paying out prizes isn't as urgent as giving back the space you are lending. That took approx. a week. Which led us to today. After that the paper work starts. And I white-knight the tournament because no tournament in the western world has ever attained the magic I saw in 2006 in Bercy. I would do the same if I'd loved the Assembly ...
It's up to ESWC to earn that reputation, and they certainly have not managed to do that so far outside France. Clearly they could have done more to inform players about their payment arrangements, and apparently there were other issues with the way tournament was ran (I'm sure you'll downplay this given the source, but for instance Idra was quite unhappy with the organizers and this was before he was eliminated). No one but ESWC is responsible for their brand.
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EPT
