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On October 30 2011 11:41 chomsky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 11:39 renaissanceMAN wrote:On October 30 2011 11:37 chomsky wrote:On October 30 2011 11:23 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 30 2011 11:16 Weedk wrote:On October 30 2011 11:03 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 30 2011 11:01 Tenhou wrote:
So why is it exactly that Flash is dominating in the BW scene when he's so young and all the other older pros get more practice and experience than? He won his first championship as a 15 year old teenager. Why didn't your logic applied then?
I was giving flash 1 year to catch up to 5 years of others experience... my logic works perfectly fine that a flash who has been playing BW for a couple years before going pro would be able to do well vs people with a year or two more experience than him. Flash has been practicing SC2 in his recovery time already. Flash also shined in his first year playing pro BW. First year. In 2007. Beating those who had years of experience on him. I think you underestimate Flash's innate talent. As much as I resent him for stopping Jaedong's run of invincibility, I admit the fact that he is the number one RTS player in the world, hands down. Edit: Did I mention that he was still nigh unstoppable with a wrist injury that required surgery to fix? Edit 2: I just realized they took away my Oz tag, and I am very angry. what i don't understand is how everyone arguing that flash was so good his first pro year (which is a fact) ignores that he had to practice before becoming a pro. he didn't pick up the game and get his license like some people are acting. and flash practicing sc2 in recovery is a rumor right now, we don't know if he has been for sure. but yeah if he switched now or next year i think he could be the top SC2 player for sure, but he's not going to switch until his BW career is winding down. so people will have much mroe experience and his injuries will be much worse, and he will be much older, and generally a worse player than he was at his peak. 3-4 years was the "he'll switch early" mentality. likely we are looking at 5-6 years down the line for a flash-> sc2 scenerio. BW is not going away anytime soon. This is actually pretty much what happened XD Your way to a progamer?
- Through Courage Match. I realized that potential to become a star and image were as important as good gaming skills.
When I tried to be a gamer, my parents opposed a lot, but I had known that the older generation would oppose. I promised them that I will stop gaming if I don't win a title in one year. I put my everything. I did nothing but playing StarCraft. Eventually I won a title in one year and my parents became fans. Their support means a lot. Drafted by Pantech and Curitel in 2007 and traded off to KTF MagicNs shortly after being drafted, Flash came on to the scene as one of the youngest progamers to be televised. Advancing to the Daum OSL from his first attempt in the offline preliminaries, his career started off in a strong fashion, quickly amassing a winning record in Proleague play and succeeding in getting into both the MSL and OSL. he still really didn't hit his stride until after 08 (despite his incredible winning streak) That's still only a year later when he was 16, and even then he was entering a pro scene that was about a decade old at that point
yeah which still fits perfectly into my 1 flash year for every 5 years of experience others have.
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First of all Flash , Jaedong and Bisu will not switch tomorrow. They'll do it(if at all) in 2-3 years. By then SC2 will be completely different, there will be new players maybe even better than them... So who knows(and who cares actually) what will happen in 2-3 year ?
I can't understand what is the point of arguing about things that will happen that far in the future. The truth is that NO ONE KNOWS.
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On October 30 2011 11:44 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 11:41 chomsky wrote:On October 30 2011 11:39 renaissanceMAN wrote:On October 30 2011 11:37 chomsky wrote:On October 30 2011 11:23 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 30 2011 11:16 Weedk wrote:On October 30 2011 11:03 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 30 2011 11:01 Tenhou wrote:
So why is it exactly that Flash is dominating in the BW scene when he's so young and all the other older pros get more practice and experience than? He won his first championship as a 15 year old teenager. Why didn't your logic applied then?
I was giving flash 1 year to catch up to 5 years of others experience... my logic works perfectly fine that a flash who has been playing BW for a couple years before going pro would be able to do well vs people with a year or two more experience than him. Flash has been practicing SC2 in his recovery time already. Flash also shined in his first year playing pro BW. First year. In 2007. Beating those who had years of experience on him. I think you underestimate Flash's innate talent. As much as I resent him for stopping Jaedong's run of invincibility, I admit the fact that he is the number one RTS player in the world, hands down. Edit: Did I mention that he was still nigh unstoppable with a wrist injury that required surgery to fix? Edit 2: I just realized they took away my Oz tag, and I am very angry. what i don't understand is how everyone arguing that flash was so good his first pro year (which is a fact) ignores that he had to practice before becoming a pro. he didn't pick up the game and get his license like some people are acting. and flash practicing sc2 in recovery is a rumor right now, we don't know if he has been for sure. but yeah if he switched now or next year i think he could be the top SC2 player for sure, but he's not going to switch until his BW career is winding down. so people will have much mroe experience and his injuries will be much worse, and he will be much older, and generally a worse player than he was at his peak. 3-4 years was the "he'll switch early" mentality. likely we are looking at 5-6 years down the line for a flash-> sc2 scenerio. BW is not going away anytime soon. This is actually pretty much what happened XD Your way to a progamer?
- Through Courage Match. I realized that potential to become a star and image were as important as good gaming skills.
When I tried to be a gamer, my parents opposed a lot, but I had known that the older generation would oppose. I promised them that I will stop gaming if I don't win a title in one year. I put my everything. I did nothing but playing StarCraft. Eventually I won a title in one year and my parents became fans. Their support means a lot. Drafted by Pantech and Curitel in 2007 and traded off to KTF MagicNs shortly after being drafted, Flash came on to the scene as one of the youngest progamers to be televised. Advancing to the Daum OSL from his first attempt in the offline preliminaries, his career started off in a strong fashion, quickly amassing a winning record in Proleague play and succeeding in getting into both the MSL and OSL. he still really didn't hit his stride until after 08 (despite his incredible winning streak) That's still only a year later when he was 16, and even then he was entering a pro scene that was about a decade old at that point yeah which still fits perfectly into my 1 flash year for every 5 years of experience others have.
Yeah I agree with you, I'm just trying to impress upon people that Flash is not some strong player who just happens to be on the top of the pyramid right now, but a wicked smart/talented kid
On October 30 2011 11:48 Pr0wler wrote:
First of all Flash , Jaedong and Bisu will not switch tomorrow. They'll do it(if at all) in 2-3 years. By then SC2 will be completely different, there will be new players maybe even better than them... So who knows(and who cares actually) what will happen in 2-3 year ?
I can't understand what is the point of arguing about things that will happen that far in the future. The truth is that NO ONE KNOWS.
XD
People speculate in every single sport or game played on the planet, you would not find it unusual if you saw people arguing over what would happen if Ronaldo got traded to Tottenham, or something similar in whatever sports you happen to follow, and SC is no different
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On October 30 2011 11:48 chomsky wrote:
Yeah I agree with you, I'm just trying to impress upon people that Flash is not some strong player who just happens to be on the top of the pyramid right now, but a wicked smart/talented kid
anyone that denies flash is talented is just ignorant though.
equally anyone that thinks flash can overcome any obstacle is ignorant as well, every person has their limit.
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On October 30 2011 11:48 Pr0wler wrote:
First of all Flash , Jaedong and Bisu will not switch tomorrow. They'll do it(if at all) in 2-3 years. By then SC2 will be completely different, there will be new players maybe even better than them... So who knows(and who cares actually) what will happen in 2-3 year ?
I can't understand what is the point of arguing about things that will happen that far in the future. The truth is that NO ONE KNOWS.
2-3 years nah i think they will fully switch in about a year
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On October 30 2011 11:51 MenSol[ZerO] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 11:48 Pr0wler wrote:
First of all Flash , Jaedong and Bisu will not switch tomorrow. They'll do it(if at all) in 2-3 years. By then SC2 will be completely different, there will be new players maybe even better than them... So who knows(and who cares actually) what will happen in 2-3 year ?
I can't understand what is the point of arguing about things that will happen that far in the future. The truth is that NO ONE KNOWS. 2-3 years nah i think they will fully switch in about a year
Only time will tell.
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On October 30 2011 11:51 MenSol[ZerO] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 11:48 Pr0wler wrote:
First of all Flash , Jaedong and Bisu will not switch tomorrow. They'll do it(if at all) in 2-3 years. By then SC2 will be completely different, there will be new players maybe even better than them... So who knows(and who cares actually) what will happen in 2-3 year ?
I can't understand what is the point of arguing about things that will happen that far in the future. The truth is that NO ONE KNOWS. 2-3 years nah i think they will fully switch in about a year
this really isn't likely. they have contracts and alot of monetary incentive to stay as BW players, and BW will be very robust for some time to come once the 8th team gets formed. so no influx will come from BW dying. they won't come until KESPA sc2 scene is established and their own careers in BW are starting to fade.
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On October 30 2011 11:48 Pr0wler wrote:
First of all Flash , Jaedong and Bisu will not switch tomorrow. They'll do it(if at all) in 2-3 years. By then SC2 will be completely different, there will be new players maybe even better than them... So who knows(and who cares actually) what will happen in 2-3 year ?
I can't understand what is the point of arguing about things that will happen that far in the future. The truth is that NO ONE KNOWS. Rather, the bunch of news point to this Prolegue - now - having SC2 in it (hopefully not replacing BW, just alongside), and a bunch of BW champions participating in this SC2 branch of the Proleague. Now. I guess we'll wait and see, when all those cryptic news are fully revealed, and the Proleague starts.
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On October 30 2011 11:41 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 11:37 chomsky wrote:On October 30 2011 11:23 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 30 2011 11:16 Weedk wrote:On October 30 2011 11:03 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 30 2011 11:01 Tenhou wrote:
So why is it exactly that Flash is dominating in the BW scene when he's so young and all the other older pros get more practice and experience than? He won his first championship as a 15 year old teenager. Why didn't your logic applied then?
I was giving flash 1 year to catch up to 5 years of others experience... my logic works perfectly fine that a flash who has been playing BW for a couple years before going pro would be able to do well vs people with a year or two more experience than him. Flash has been practicing SC2 in his recovery time already. Flash also shined in his first year playing pro BW. First year. In 2007. Beating those who had years of experience on him. I think you underestimate Flash's innate talent. As much as I resent him for stopping Jaedong's run of invincibility, I admit the fact that he is the number one RTS player in the world, hands down. Edit: Did I mention that he was still nigh unstoppable with a wrist injury that required surgery to fix? Edit 2: I just realized they took away my Oz tag, and I am very angry. what i don't understand is how everyone arguing that flash was so good his first pro year (which is a fact) ignores that he had to practice before becoming a pro. he didn't pick up the game and get his license like some people are acting. and flash practicing sc2 in recovery is a rumor right now, we don't know if he has been for sure. but yeah if he switched now or next year i think he could be the top SC2 player for sure, but he's not going to switch until his BW career is winding down. so people will have much mroe experience and his injuries will be much worse, and he will be much older, and generally a worse player than he was at his peak. 3-4 years was the "he'll switch early" mentality. likely we are looking at 5-6 years down the line for a flash-> sc2 scenerio. BW is not going away anytime soon. This is actually pretty much what happened XD Your way to a progamer?
- Through Courage Match. I realized that potential to become a star and image were as important as good gaming skills.
When I tried to be a gamer, my parents opposed a lot, but I had known that the older generation would oppose. I promised them that I will stop gaming if I don't win a title in one year. I put my everything. I did nothing but playing StarCraft. Eventually I won a title in one year and my parents became fans. Their support means a lot. Drafted by Pantech and Curitel in 2007 and traded off to KTF MagicNs shortly after being drafted, Flash came on to the scene as one of the youngest progamers to be televised. Advancing to the Daum OSL from his first attempt in the offline preliminaries, his career started off in a strong fashion, quickly amassing a winning record in Proleague play and succeeding in getting into both the MSL and OSL. eh he played a year before the qualifiers. thats what i assumed. and i gave him the same time before he became a competitive player in sc2 as well.
This is pretty silly. Flash went from not being competetive to progamer in one year in the hardest game in the world, which has somewhat similar mechanics to sc2, and you think even after gathering vast amounts of practice to hone his decision making, macro, micro, game sense (all of these translate very well to sc2 btw, as you can tell from who occupies the top 2 spots in sc2), that he will need the same amount of time to get really good at comparably simpler game?
right. ok.
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On October 30 2011 11:41 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 11:37 ninini wrote:
Seriously, what's the point of the existing BW players playing SC2? Isn't it better if the teams started SC2 branches instead, and then the ppl who wanted to could switch without having to change teams. To me this sounds like KESPA and/or the teams have stopped believing in BW, which is strange since half of the fans want nothing to do with SC2. So if they stopped BW altogether, they would lose 50% of their fanbase. Sure, they would get some more fans, but right now BW have the larger fanbase, so in the end they would lose more than they gained, especially since they could show both games at the same time. I think they are just ALL playing it so they can figure out who is the best at it, just incase they have to form an SC2 team, so their team is the most competitive possible. i really don't think many will switch at all. likely just B team/ people who decide they like SC2 more/ Young A team.
Well if they form a SC2 team, they'll need other players, not Bisu and Jaedong, unless they abandon BW alltogether and forces Bisu and Jaedong to switch, so it doesn't make sense to "prepare" their players for SC2, unless they want these players to switch.
Ahhh. I wish ppl in general would understand that although the games are very similar, they are two different games, with different appeals, which means many BW players and fans have no interest in SC2 and don't see it as a upgrade. That's why I think all this talk about a future transition is a bit strange. To me, when/if BW dies, esports is dead to me, unless there comes another game that excites me as much as BW. 50% of the BW fans in Korea feels the same way according to the latest polls. Imagine if FC Barcelona transitioned their team into beach football/soccer. They would probably dominate, since their players are so talented, but the move would be pretty ridiculous.
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On October 30 2011 11:52 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 11:51 MenSol[ZerO] wrote:On October 30 2011 11:48 Pr0wler wrote:
First of all Flash , Jaedong and Bisu will not switch tomorrow. They'll do it(if at all) in 2-3 years. By then SC2 will be completely different, there will be new players maybe even better than them... So who knows(and who cares actually) what will happen in 2-3 year ?
I can't understand what is the point of arguing about things that will happen that far in the future. The truth is that NO ONE KNOWS. 2-3 years nah i think they will fully switch in about a year this really isn't likely. they have contracts and alot of monetary incentive to stay as BW players, and BW will be very robust for some time to come once the 8th team gets formed. so no influx will come from BW dying. they won't come until KESPA sc2 scene is established and their own careers in BW are starting to fade.
they will have more of an incentive to switch if the teams start playing sc2 in proleague
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On October 30 2011 11:52 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 11:51 MenSol[ZerO] wrote:On October 30 2011 11:48 Pr0wler wrote:
First of all Flash , Jaedong and Bisu will not switch tomorrow. They'll do it(if at all) in 2-3 years. By then SC2 will be completely different, there will be new players maybe even better than them... So who knows(and who cares actually) what will happen in 2-3 year ?
I can't understand what is the point of arguing about things that will happen that far in the future. The truth is that NO ONE KNOWS. 2-3 years nah i think they will fully switch in about a year this really isn't likely. they have contracts and alot of monetary incentive to stay as BW players, and BW will be very robust for some time to come once the 8th team gets formed. so no influx will come from BW dying. they won't come until KESPA sc2 scene is established and their own careers in BW are starting to fade.
Well considering all the talks of Kespa Wanting to introduce Sc2 in the next pro league season(Nothing confirmed mostly rumors right now).... this could happen a lot sooner then 2 years....
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Maybe I am being pessimistic but I find the switch to be a bit depressing and I don't even watch BW. First if they are switching that certainly signifies an act of desperation, as sc2 has not even taken off in Korea so there are no guarantees it is a good move, only the reliance that it can be supported with international base.
I've heard BW has been popular for at least a decade in korea... this itself is a miracle and an anomaly for a very outdated game, and should not be assumed as the norm by any means. Just how realistic is sc2 lasting power if it will rely on international scene to make it boom instead of korea like BW? International likes newer and better is my opinion... Right now could very well be the peak of the boom, as casual players can already be seen fracturing off with interest to other game such as LoL and Dota2... and internationally I would think most of the viewer is the casual player.
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I honestly think it will be funny as someone who never played broodwar to see Flash fall to relative no-names in the beginning of his career. But of course he'll rise quickly and eventually take his spot at the top.
Just funny thoughts when you will hear the MLG Korean seeds are Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Jangbi in a year or so. And watching matches between SK T1 and Slayers, EG vs ACE. MVP vs KT.
I personally think if sc2 teams are allowed into the proleague they will dominate the current mainly BW team before they can catch up in skill.
Another funny thought. "BW" teams picking up "SC2" players.
Sleep and check are teamless..... like 10 new high level teams introduced to SC2....
I'm surprised no one has even suggested this yet.
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On October 29 2011 03:36 Xxio wrote:
....losing faith in humanity...
No, you're just getting older and have a broader perspective. I empathize. Someday they'll be you...
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What? I thought the Kespa SC2 would be with separate players, not the BW players playing both.
This is sad news. I am not an SC2 anti-fan; before its release I was hoping it would surpass BW as a worthy successor. But it has not. As it stands, BW is the superior game. It's gameplay has more depth, it's strategy more intricacies, it is better balanced, and, for the educated observer, it is more entertaining.
Maybe this will change with the expansions, but SC2 does not deserve this, not at this cost. BW survived and grew into an esport on its own merits. SC2 is the triumph of corporate marketing dollars and, relatively, style over substance. Originally I was fine with SC2 running alongside the Proleague, trusting BW to gain converts with increased exposure, but to take the attention and talents of BW's best players, creators of beautiful games, is not fine. The misconception that newer means better is destroying something wonderful.
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Real shame it's a sign of the end for bw, but I'm damn excited that the question of whether or not the best of the best in BW can dominate in SC2 will finally be answered soon.
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On October 30 2011 15:03 Hawk wrote:
Real shame it's a sign of the end for bw, but I'm damn excited that the question of whether or not the best of the best in BW can dominate in SC2 will finally be answered soon.
Me too. At least one good zerg please.
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Does anyone remember what EffOrt's ID was when he was playing sc2 for a little bit?
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EPT
