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The State of SC2 Aesthetics Part 1: Lighting - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
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SKYFISH_
Profile Joined April 2011
Bulgaria990 Posts
October 28 2011 18:58 GMT
#61
Horrible idea, the OMG SO REALISTIX GRAFIX with bloom,blur,glow and various other bullshit HDR effects literally killed the FPS genre, no fucking way I want this shit in my sci-fi RTS computer game.


I'd rather see clearly what my units are doing than being blinded and deceived by glowing concrete and other random visual effects, thank you
In Soviet Terranistan you rush the Zerg
RoyGBiv_13
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1275 Posts
October 28 2011 19:02 GMT
#62
While we're at it, why does every air unit always fly at the same altitude no matter what. wouldn't mutas and vikings look cooler if you could watching them pull crazy manuevers to turn, doing altitude changes
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
_Depression
Profile Joined October 2011
United States251 Posts
October 28 2011 19:09 GMT
#63
On October 29 2011 03:39 Sighstorm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2011 03:12 _Depression wrote:
On October 29 2011 02:43 Sighstorm wrote:
On October 28 2011 15:17 VaultDweller wrote:
As a product designer I'm sure you don't only pay attention to how things look but also how they function, right? You can't design this amazing looking thing if the shape or colors or wtv affect it's functionality. Everything about starcraft was made with e-sports in mind, and it may look bland at times or there might be only one type of lightning but that makes perfect sense, I wouldn't want my game to look significantly different on various maps... Imho it has to be consistent no matter what, for both players and spectators.
I 100% agree with this post and i'm a product designer as well. Simplicity and consistency are important requirements for an eSport and should be prevailing over aesthetics in this case.
The options to change the lighting are available in the editor, so people can have fun with this in custom games. But it doesn't add any value to competative maps IMO.


As much as I agree with this, we also have to remember that there is room for variance within the "consistency" that eSports needs. For example, college football. The prevailing color scheme of fields is green grass with white lines denoting yardage, but then we see Boise State University's field which has blue turf. It's a variance from the norm, but it doesn't stop the game from being playable. In a similar way, during winter months there can often be covered in snow and yet the game will still be played.

So I think we can see variation in maps, within reason of course.
I do agree there should be variance, but in IMO this should be done with the tile sets, not lighting. I've seen a competative game played on a map that had different lighting (darker), i think on ESV KOTH, and the caster(s) were talking about how everything looked different instead of the match that was going on.

If I would have to draw the line of what can and cannot be changed, i would say the units should look the same on every map, so they are easy to recognize on first glance. Changing the lighting affects the visual apperance of the units... this would be a 'no go' for me.



But lighting can change, as long as (again) it's within reason. I agree that the units should look [mostly] the same, but it doesn't have to be exactly the same on every map.
UmiNotsuki
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States633 Posts
October 28 2011 19:14 GMT
#64
This is really beautiful, I gotta say. I would love to have a more epic feel from some of the maps. I enjoy the jungle feel of maps like Tal'Darim and the artificial feel of Metalopolis, but a searingly hot desert at high noon is too epic to pass up. Let's see some great map design on this idea, please!

Alternatively, we could see reskins of classic maps with this new lighting and different tilesets. Could make for some really cool stuff.
UmiNotsuki.111 (NA), UNTReborn.932 (EU), UmiNotsuki (iCCup) -- You see that text I wrote above this? I'll betcha $5 that you disagree :D
nakedsurfer
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada500 Posts
October 28 2011 19:20 GMT
#65
To be honest the only difference between the 2 picture that you show that I see is that the first one looks zoomed in and less full whereas the second picutre you added many more things into the picture.
I feel like if you're going to try and show differences between lighting and stuff that you say makes it look oh so much better then you should use the exact same picture instead of adding and moving units around because as it stands now I don't notice any shadow difference or any real difference at all that would make my spectating experience better for the effort in changing it.
Root4Root
Bluerain
Profile Joined April 2010
United States348 Posts
October 28 2011 19:24 GMT
#66
wc3 had day n night cycles with nightelf units being able to "cloak" while standing still at night. would be a cool thing to have if they ever introduce the xel naga or hybrid race
jj33
Profile Joined April 2011
802 Posts
October 28 2011 19:27 GMT
#67
sc2 sure is a pretty game
Belha
Profile Joined December 2010
Italy2850 Posts
October 28 2011 19:35 GMT
#68
The discusion of utility is pointless cose pro players play with almost everything on low setings, so the aestetics are really good for the spectators view.
Chicken gank op
svefnleysi
Profile Joined March 2011
Iceland623 Posts
October 28 2011 19:42 GMT
#69
Anyone else's eyes hurt from looking at the screenshots in the OP?
caradoc
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada3022 Posts
October 28 2011 19:47 GMT
#70
oh god, make a post on b.net forums, this is so nice
Salvation a la mode and a cup of tea...
pzea469
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1520 Posts
October 28 2011 19:59 GMT
#71
I definitely welcome map makers to make lighting changes and such to make me truly feel like I'm on a different planet, not just a different country. As long as it doesn't too harshly affect clarity of what's going on, I'm totally for this.
Kill the Deathball
Gheizen64
Profile Joined June 2010
Italy2077 Posts
October 28 2011 20:04 GMT
#72
Your screenshot are absolutely beautiful and i agree wholeheartedly with you. It's nothing taxing on the cpu, they just need to work a bit to implement those things.

Noon shadowing also make the game much better from a spectator point of view.
Seen as G.ZZZ [COPPER SCUM] on Steam
McKTenor13
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1383 Posts
October 28 2011 20:09 GMT
#73
I'll agree with the shadowing. I always wondered about watching whether or not an air unit was directly over something or not
If you can chill. chill. - Liquid'Tyler
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
October 28 2011 20:12 GMT
#74
On October 29 2011 03:50 latan wrote:
there must be a reason why the developers made it how it is.

Yes, just as there is a reason for lackluster ladder map pool. =)
InvalidID
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1050 Posts
October 28 2011 20:12 GMT
#75
On October 29 2011 03:58 SKYFISH_ wrote:
Horrible idea, the OMG SO REALISTIX GRAFIX with bloom,blur,glow and various other bullshit HDR effects literally killed the FPS genre, no fucking way I want this shit in my sci-fi RTS computer game.


I'd rather see clearly what my units are doing than being blinded and deceived by glowing concrete and other random visual effects, thank you


If you don't want the effects, turn graphics to low? Pretty simple, no?
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
October 28 2011 20:14 GMT
#76
On October 29 2011 04:35 Belha wrote:
The discusion of utility is pointless cose pro players play with almost everything on low setings, so the aestetics are really good for the spectators view.

How many Koreans really play with low settings? Hero doesn't. I would bet that more than a few play with settings that look decent.

The light angle is functional both for players and spectators. If if you have crappy circle black shadows, the position would still be accurate with this configuration.

0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
October 28 2011 20:18 GMT
#77
On October 29 2011 03:58 SKYFISH_ wrote:
Horrible idea, the OMG SO REALISTIX GRAFIX with bloom,blur,glow and various other bullshit HDR effects literally killed the FPS genre, no fucking way I want this shit in my sci-fi RTS computer game.


I'd rather see clearly what my units are doing than being blinded and deceived by glowing concrete and other random visual effects, thank you

The brightness is variable. I'm not talking about fog and sand and HDR. I'm only talking about variety in tilesets and overhead shadows.

You could argue that the existing 9am shadow setup is because Blizzard chose aesthetics over usability.

I didn't say anything about bloom, glow, etc. In fact, in my first image I gave it linear falloff so it looks quite 2D. If anything, this is about adding a little ambience without adding more visual noise, and adapting what we loved about spectating Brood War to SC2 where it makes sense.

0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-28 20:22:31
October 28 2011 20:19 GMT
#78
On October 29 2011 04:20 nakedsurfer wrote:
To be honest the only difference between the 2 picture that you show that I see is that the first one looks zoomed in and less full whereas the second picutre you added many more things into the picture.
I feel like if you're going to try and show differences between lighting and stuff that you say makes it look oh so much better then you should use the exact same picture instead of adding and moving units around because as it stands now I don't notice any shadow difference or any real difference at all that would make my spectating experience better for the effort in changing it.

Sorry for the confusion. It's not a before/after. It's a 2nd version of the same idea. The only difference is that the shadows in the 2nd version are less harsh.


On October 29 2011 04:14 UmiNotsuki wrote:
This is really beautiful, I gotta say. I would love to have a more epic feel from some of the maps. I enjoy the jungle feel of maps like Tal'Darim and the artificial feel of Metalopolis, but a searingly hot desert at high noon is too epic to pass up. Let's see some great map design on this idea, please!

Well, I've been wanting to make a map but I just recently got into the map editor, and my wife's birthday is today. I have a 2 month old son, so it's unlikely I'll make one in time for the contest. Of course, if someone gave me a map to skin like this, I'd love to do that and could probably do it in a day or two with some help.

I've been wanting to make an SC2 map inspired (not ported) by army and expo movement from Heartbreak Ridge/Outsider, but I just didn't have time this month.
Geovu
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Estonia1344 Posts
October 28 2011 20:22 GMT
#79
On October 29 2011 03:58 SKYFISH_ wrote:
Horrible idea, the OMG SO REALISTIX GRAFIX with bloom,blur,glow and various other bullshit HDR effects literally killed the FPS genre, no fucking way I want this shit in my sci-fi RTS computer game.


I'd rather see clearly what my units are doing than being blinded and deceived by glowing concrete and other random visual effects, thank you

Turn them off, everyone wins?

I don't see what is the problem with people talking about making the game looking nicer anyways.
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
October 28 2011 20:25 GMT
#80
On October 29 2011 04:02 RoyGBiv_13 wrote:
While we're at it, why does every air unit always fly at the same altitude no matter what. wouldn't mutas and vikings look cooler if you could watching them pull crazy manuevers to turn, doing altitude changes

I like the idea of different altitudes, because that contributes to legibility. Maneuvers would get complicated. You can already do cool banks with micro.
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