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The State of SC2 Aesthetics Part 1: Lighting - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
quen
Profile Joined March 2011
201 Posts
October 28 2011 06:12 GMT
#21
I dislike harsh shadows
MonkSEA
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia1227 Posts
October 28 2011 06:14 GMT
#22
I feel like the units look a little 2d in that screen cap.. I prefer the current lighting effects over the example screenshot.
http://www.youtube.com/user/sirmonkeh Zerg Live Casts and Commentary!
OneBk
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden157 Posts
October 28 2011 06:16 GMT
#23
is it just me or is to bright?
VaultDweller
Profile Joined January 2011
Romania132 Posts
October 28 2011 06:17 GMT
#24
As a product designer I'm sure you don't only pay attention to how things look but also how they function, right? You can't design this amazing looking thing if the shape or colors or wtv affect it's functionality. Everything about starcraft was made with e-sports in mind, and it may look bland at times or there might be only one type of lightning but that makes perfect sense, I wouldn't want my game to look significantly different on various maps... Imho it has to be consistent no matter what, for both players and spectators.
"War is not about who's right- it's about who's left."
Cuiu
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany410 Posts
October 28 2011 06:22 GMT
#25
On October 28 2011 14:46 0neder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2011 14:43 Otolia wrote:
My GPU is already burned ><

Great idea but SC2 was also designed so that almost every PC could run it.

This doesn't tax the GPU any more. All I did was change the light angle and start using desert tilesets.


yeah i dont like this part but the destert stuff is fine
kingcoyote
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States546 Posts
October 28 2011 06:26 GMT
#26
On October 28 2011 14:56 Zarjax wrote:
To be fair, there have been maps with different colors that everybody ended up hating. Desert Oasis, Blistering Sands, and Searing Crater come to mind. There might also be more interesting looking maps coming with HotS. Since they are doing the new destructible rocks feature that they will at least add a few more maps to display this feature, we can only hope they will look interesting.


All three of those maps would have been terrible no matter what tileset they were on. Searing Crater could have been made of My Little Pony, and nat-to-nat sieging would still have been a terrible decision.
Talic_Zealot
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
688 Posts
October 28 2011 06:48 GMT
#27
I'm not sure how related will this be but.. Tingling with lighting could be potentially problematic, I personally feel like the colors have been chosen so everything is best distinguishable at the current lightning. Also for instance I found that the lowest graphic setting really hurt my eyes so I play on high lighting and lowest possible for everything else, your proposition would take away that control a bit. All that aside it looks good for a picture, maybe make a video or a map.
There are three types of people in the universe: those who can count, and those who cant.
Kashll
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1117 Posts
October 28 2011 06:50 GMT
#28
To be fair that desert screenshot is really pretty. I'd love a map like that (assuming it wasn't awful like backwater gulch ;p )
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley
itkovian
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1763 Posts
October 28 2011 06:52 GMT
#29
It does feel like a lot of the maps are really dark and it gets stale after a while. We need more bright maps like belshir beach!
=)=
Superdogmot
Profile Joined December 2004
Australia20 Posts
October 28 2011 06:55 GMT
#30
I agree 100% with OP, the engine has the capability for so much more than it is currently being used for
Hairy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1169 Posts
October 28 2011 07:01 GMT
#31
On October 28 2011 14:41 0neder wrote:
Who's with me? Here's a crappy screenshot illustrating the general feel:
[image loading]

I'm definitely with you! And "crappy" screenshot? I think that looks stunning - like they're really out there baking in the scorching desert heat. I'm shocked no-one has suggested this sooner, given the apparent ease of making the changes. I appreciate that blizzard don't want the lighting etc to be too distracting, and they don't want to detract from the clarity of the units for gameplay/spectator purposes, but I really don't think your changes cause any problems.

We're soon to get a ice maps - why not a desert map that's actually scorching?
Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-28 07:09:08
October 28 2011 07:05 GMT
#32
On October 28 2011 15:17 VaultDweller wrote:
As a product designer I'm sure you don't only pay attention to how things look but also how they function, right? You can't design this amazing looking thing if the shape or colors or wtv affect it's functionality. Everything about starcraft was made with e-sports in mind, and it may look bland at times or there might be only one type of lightning but that makes perfect sense, I wouldn't want my game to look significantly different on various maps... Imho it has to be consistent no matter what, for both players and spectators.

If changing the light angle is more intuitive, then it should be done. The change is simultaneously functional and aesthetic. In some ways, overhead shadows are more bland. But they are also more clear for both player and spectator.

We shouldn't be afraid of change if the change is an improvement.

I think we can make a serious case for overhead lighting being less distracting than the 3quarters 9am cast shadows.
althaz
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia1001 Posts
October 28 2011 07:21 GMT
#33
On October 28 2011 16:05 0neder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2011 15:17 VaultDweller wrote:
As a product designer I'm sure you don't only pay attention to how things look but also how they function, right? You can't design this amazing looking thing if the shape or colors or wtv affect it's functionality. Everything about starcraft was made with e-sports in mind, and it may look bland at times or there might be only one type of lightning but that makes perfect sense, I wouldn't want my game to look significantly different on various maps... Imho it has to be consistent no matter what, for both players and spectators.

If changing the light angle is more intuitive, then it should be done. The change is simultaneously functional and aesthetic. In some ways, overhead shadows are more bland. But they are also more clear for both player and spectator.

We shouldn't be afraid of change if the change is an improvement.

I think we can make a serious case for overhead lighting being less distracting than the 3quarters 9am cast shadows.

This. Like them or not (because it's purely personal preference either way), midday shadows make everything much clearer, ESPECIALLY for spectators, because players will have learned by now about the little line and circle that tell you the actual location of air units.

On a purely aesthetic note, I actually like the harsher shadows, but I feel like they might obscure any units underneath them too much? I don't know if shadows currently go over or under units, but such dark shadows will I think obscure units too much. For this reason I'd support changing the angle (frankly this should have always been this way, IMO) but not the darkness of the shadows.
The first rule we don't talk about race conditions. of race conditions is
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-28 07:50:59
October 28 2011 07:48 GMT
#34
Good point althaz. One reason my OP original image has harsh shadows is that I changed it to linear falloff instead of exponential. I have made a new image that better shows the different contexts of overhead shadows, with them being slightly less stark. I believe that we can soften the darkness of them even more, I've only spent a few hours in the editor though. i just got excited so I probably made this post prematurely. I will include this new image here as well as in the OP.

Quick rundown of lighting changes from memory:
Tone Editor: Diffuse multiplier increased from 1 to 2
Terrain: Creep Specular Multiplier decreased from 3 to 1.
Key: changed to H:0, V:272 (overhead lighting)



[image loading]

Notice how you could see when mutas are over a Thor, when an air unit is hovering above a cliff, etc? This is the idea for spectators and players alike. More clarity, looks cool. Progamers could adapt quickly and would probably welcome the clarity.
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-28 07:58:21
October 28 2011 07:53 GMT
#35
On October 28 2011 15:14 MonkSEA wrote:
I feel like the units look a little 2d in that screen cap.. I prefer the current lighting effects over the example screenshot.

Could have been the falloff being linear. I changed that back to exponential, which is the default.

I don't disagree that this feels a little 2D. I'm a complete newbie with the editor, but I assume a few more tweaks could help it feel more 3D while maintaining a 2D-esque clarity.
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
October 28 2011 16:28 GMT
#36
Bumped once to see if it will start a larger conversation during the day in the US.
kingcoyote
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States546 Posts
October 28 2011 16:28 GMT
#37
On October 28 2011 16:48 0neder wrote:
Good point althaz. One reason my OP original image has harsh shadows is that I changed it to linear falloff instead of exponential. I have made a new image that better shows the different contexts of overhead shadows, with them being slightly less stark. I believe that we can soften the darkness of them even more, I've only spent a few hours in the editor though. i just got excited so I probably made this post prematurely. I will include this new image here as well as in the OP.

Quick rundown of lighting changes from memory:
Tone Editor: Diffuse multiplier increased from 1 to 2
Terrain: Creep Specular Multiplier decreased from 3 to 1.
Key: changed to H:0, V:272 (overhead lighting)



[image loading]

Notice how you could see when mutas are over a Thor, when an air unit is hovering above a cliff, etc? This is the idea for spectators and players alike. More clarity, looks cool. Progamers could adapt quickly and would probably welcome the clarity.


I think the units look good, but the buildings look really flat from that angle. Since most buildings don't move, it's possible Blizzard designed the model to have the best shadows from the default angle. Maybe you could toy around with various angles to see if any give a little more depth to them?
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
October 28 2011 16:34 GMT
#38
0neder, did you tried if it runs smoothly ingame?
I had some romance with custom lightings some months ago, what i've learnt from it, only use blizzard made lightings (especially the sun angle) if you don't want a map with 5fps.
Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
October 28 2011 16:35 GMT
#39
The angle is driven by air unit position. I'm sure other settings can be tweaked if we want. This is a dialogue, I don't even know most of the variables yet.

I'm not proposing this as the exclusive lighting setup for SC2, although I wouldn't mind if it was. I'm proposing it as one option that should be considered, especially for desert tilesets.
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
October 28 2011 16:37 GMT
#40
On October 29 2011 01:34 Superouman wrote:
0neder, did you tried if it runs smoothly ingame?
I had some romance with custom lightings some months ago, what i've learnt from it, only use blizzard made lightings (especially the sun angle) if you don't want a map with 5fps.

It makes no sense to me why blizzard would give us this flexibility and then make it unusable in melee maps. These are just 3 variables that I changed that added nothing extra to be processed. Of course, I'm not a programmer or techie, so I could be mistaken, but logically it should be fine.

I have a 4 y/o macbook, so my machine is not capable of giving this a real test. It's hard enough running it in the editor. =)
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