EPTSC2 is heading in the wrong direction - Page 41
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Balgrog
United States1221 Posts
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metbull
United States404 Posts
I imagine Chicken Little running around yelling, "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" Well if this post is acceptable, I think we should discuss how broken teleportation is going to be. I mean we have the technology to do this kind of stuff now. It's not release, and scientists are working on it now, but we should still complain now. | ||
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TheDraken
United States640 Posts
you can't deny the game has gone much more spell-caster heavy than sc1 ever was. while many people (especially newer ones) will find little problem with that, it's troubling for people who want a genuine sequel. there's two camps in this "new direction" debate that will probably never reconcile, but allow TT1 to have his say and stop flaming like a bunch of kids. | ||
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SeriouR
Spain622 Posts
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Rye.
United Kingdom88 Posts
On November 16 2011 06:53 Kluey wrote: Starcraft II is the sequel to Broodwar. It should be similar. Also, Broodwar was near perfect at some stages. A player would win because he's put more effort or is more talented. Winning because you were able to build the right unit...? No thanks. The lore doesn't make a perfect unit. Many things represent technology and have a futuristic feel. The replicator literally shuts down every cute timing with a high tier unit. A quick ghost timing push, no thanks. I'll just replicate a ghost and emp your ghosts. A quick siege tank push, no thanks. I'll just replicate your tank and give me the advantage. It's just dumb and that's not how a strategy game should work. If HotS does come out and this is the shit we get.. I'm sticking to WoL until things get sorted and balanced. Dune and Dune 2? Same world, but one was a adventure game and one was RTS. Warcraft 3 and WoW? RTS and MMO GTA2 and GTA3? 2D top down to 3D 3rd person games dont have to be the same, They can be vastly different if the developers want them to be. | ||
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metbull
United States404 Posts
On November 16 2011 08:04 TheDraken wrote: my god so many people are being so rude to TT1. just because he isn't sweeping MLGs doesn't mean he doesn't deserve respect. he's still a very good player and has some good points. you can't deny the game has gone much more spell-caster heavy than sc1 ever was. while many people (especially newer ones) will find little problem with that, it's troubling for people who want a genuine sequel. there's two camps in this "new direction" debate that will probably never reconcile, but allow TT1 to have his say and stop flaming like a bunch of kids. btw mine wasn't a flame on TT1. Though I don't think he's a good pro, but at least he competes (so kudos for that). It's just that he's whining about the unknown, undecided, unreleased future. And he's not the first, nor will he be the last. But he's a "pro gamer" who represents a demographic of the SC2 community. Who know's what's going to be released in HotS? You/I don't, TT1 doesn't, hell Dustin Browder probably doesn't at this point in time. Let's get a beta and then have a serious discussion. And then wait until there is a hard release of HotS to have a complete discussion regarding balance and fairness. Anything else seems irresponsible regarding a game that neither you/I nor TT1 develops. Also, this isn't an attack on you (Draken). so please don't take it as such. Nor an attack on TT1. But seriously this is Chicken Little......"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" | ||
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TheDraken
United States640 Posts
On November 16 2011 08:19 metbull wrote: btw mine wasn't a flame on TT1. Though I don't think he's a good pro, but at least he competes (so kudos for that). It's just that he's whining about the unknown, undecided, unreleased future. And he's not the first, nor will he be the last. But he's a "pro gamer" who represents a demographic of the SC2 community. Who know's what's going to be released in HotS? You/I don't, TT1 doesn't, hell Dustin Browder probably doesn't at this point in time. Let's get a beta and then have a serious discussion. And then wait until there is a hard release of HotS to have a complete discussion regarding balance and fairness. Anything else seems irresponsible regarding a game that neither you/I nor TT1 develops. Also, this isn't an attack on you (Draken). so please don't take it as such. Nor an attack on TT1. But seriously this is Chicken Little......"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" totally understand. and i was mostly referring to posts on the first few pages and a few on the pages before this one, not necessarily yours. you're completely right in that the game is not going to look like it does now, and i agree that the majority of this type of discussion should be held after the beta comes out. at the same time i somewhat agree with TT1 about the replicant, and i am of the opinion that blizz should kill the concept before they even try it in the beta. it's just in the game for the wrong reasons. if it reaches the beta the fear is it will be too late to completely remove it. so that's why you get the "sky is falling" and "omg we gotta do something NAO" posts. i think we should let the chicken littles run around a bit. | ||
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NoLimit028
23 Posts
Agreed. | ||
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Steel
Japan2283 Posts
On November 16 2011 08:12 Rye. wrote: Dune and Dune 2? Same world, but one was a adventure game and one was RTS. Warcraft 3 and WoW? RTS and MMO GTA2 and GTA3? 2D top down to 3D 3rd person games dont have to be the same, They can be vastly different if the developers want them to be. That's not really a valid point at all, lol. Those aren't games designed to be competitive... But I still agree that even though Starcraft 2 is the sequal to Brood War, it should be similar, not identical. I think you're exaggerating, TT1. In heart of the swarm, there would only two casters for zerg. The corruptor for example is not a spell caster. The Queen isn't either, it's used almost exclusively for inject and transfuse which is a nice spell but more defensive than anything. Those are core unit with a cute spell. Ignoring the mothership, a silly unit, protoss has only two aswell. Sure, the number of cute support unit has increased but it's not game changing in the long run. With this in mind, and assuming that not every single unit announced at Blizzcon will enter the game (let's be honest, the replicant is an idea that hasn't been thoroughly considered. One thing they DON'T want to do is create extremely situational units.) They'll be no more than three support unit per race which is pretty acceptable in my opinion considering the amount of units. Relax, HOTS is not out yet. A lot of units announced for WoL never happened or changed dramatically. | ||
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MysteryHours
United States168 Posts
On November 16 2011 06:27 decemberscalm wrote: Afterthought is probably too strong of a word for what I'm trying to convey then. To articulate it better, Esports isn't Blizzards primary focus with Starcraft 2, which seems pretty bloody apparent to me. Was SC1 was designed from the ground up with e-sports as it's primary focus? It wouldn't make sense for Blizzard to prioritize e-sports over things like profitability and general appeal to players new to the franchise. The key is striking the right balance and I think they've done that since the game has drawn in many new players and still has a strong competitive scene over a year later. | ||
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whoopadeedoo
United States427 Posts
Anyhow, I still totally agree with TT1. The more I play SC2 (and I play lots), the more I think it's headed in the wrong direction, if not already there. I am a BW player for 10 years and had hoped SC2 would be an extension of BW, but it's just an entirely different game to me. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
Who are you to decide what the "right" direction is? Did you make this game? No. SC2 can move in whatever direction it wants, its a game we play but it doesn't belong to us, nor do we have the right to say how it should be. There is no predefined parameter, it can be whatever the hell it wants to be. | ||
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m3rciless
United States1476 Posts
On November 16 2011 09:02 whoopadeedoo wrote: Wow. This thread is still going. My thread about the same topic got closed in like 3 hours with some mod calling me pitiful or something to that effect, but since its TT1's opinion, ... Anyhow, I still totally agree with TT1. The more I play SC2 (and I play lots), the more I think it's headed in the wrong direction, if not already there. I am a BW player for 10 years and had hoped SC2 would be an extension of BW, but it's just an entirely different game to me. Wow how wierd a progamer's words on balance mean a little more than yours! TL so elitist omg! on topic, this thread is stupid. When you start hearing about fucking dune again you know its time to kill the thread. | ||
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johngalt90
United States357 Posts
Thanks for sharing this, I agree i think the replicant is a poorly designed unit. Lets make a unit that can copy other units derp derp... I cant agree more. Hard counters are the worst and should be avoided as much as possible. Part of the problem is blizzard has approached the game design for the current metagame though the expansion also necessitates their will be a new metagame meaning the design of these units will be obsolete. The units should be judged on their merits alone and not how the will balance since the are guaranteed to imbalance the game. Units like the viper are already going to break the metagame as well as the new viability of ultras and burrowed banelings. also the amount of midtier spellcasting post HoTS is absurd. | ||
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whoopadeedoo
United States427 Posts
On November 16 2011 10:48 m3rciless wrote: Wow how wierd a progamer's words on balance mean a little more than yours! TL so elitist omg! on topic, this thread is stupid. When you start hearing about fucking dune again you know its time to kill the thread. Firstly, this isn't a balance discussion. It's a game design discussion. Secondly, I know mods have more patience for a progamer's posts than a scrub masters, and that's my point. Address the OP. What about TT1's opinion do you disagree with? | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On November 16 2011 08:04 TheDraken wrote: my god so many people are being so rude to TT1. just because he isn't sweeping MLGs doesn't mean he doesn't deserve respect. he's still a very good player and has some good points. you can't deny the game has gone much more spell-caster heavy than sc1 ever was. while many people (especially newer ones) will find little problem with that, it's troubling for people who want a genuine sequel. there's two camps in this "new direction" debate that will probably never reconcile, but allow TT1 to have his say and stop flaming like a bunch of kids. Spellcasters in BW: High Templar Dark Archon Arbiter Ghost Science Vessel Queen Defiler Spellcasters in HotS: High Templar Sentry Oracle Ghost Raven Viper Infestor So yeah, I deny that the game will be much more spell-caster heavy than SC1 was. Certain SC2 units are built much more often than their SC1 "counterparts", most notably the Sentry and Ghost, but the reverse is also true for Defilers/Infestors and Vessels/Ravens. The only real outlier is the Sentry, other than that spellcaster usage and appearance is pretty equal in both games. | ||
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Nancial
197 Posts
waiting for wc4... | ||
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Deimos0
Poland277 Posts
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Darksoldierr
Hungary2012 Posts
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On November 17 2011 04:29 Alzadar wrote: Spellcasters in BW: High Templar Dark Archon Arbiter Ghost Science Vessel Queen Defiler Spellcasters in HotS: High Templar Sentry Oracle Ghost Raven Viper Infestor So yeah, I deny that the game will be much more spell-caster heavy than SC1 was. Certain SC2 units are built much more often than their SC1 "counterparts", most notably the Sentry and Ghost, but the reverse is also true for Defilers/Infestors and Vessels/Ravens. The only real outlier is the Sentry, other than that spellcaster usage and appearance is pretty equal in both games. spells in bw are used towards mid-late to late game. even then, only a few are used often (defiler, templar, vessle). in sc2, spell casters are essential from early game (protoss) and important from midgame and on (infestor and ghost). hots at the moment focuses more on spell usage, especially for protoss. i just think protoss should be more about brute strength(like bw) and not clinging to its dependency on spells(like sc2). | ||
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