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On October 26 2011 07:27 mostevil wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:20 wolfe wrote:On October 26 2011 07:18 Tuk wrote:On October 26 2011 07:16 JoeAWESOME wrote:What about snipe?  Ghost snipe, the counter to all Z tier 3 :D then stop making t3 when they get mass ghost Fungal on a group of ghosts is deadly, but to be honest the fear of ghosts is unwarranted as of yet. Only pros have been able to use mass ghost effectively in TvZ. I doubt your games have hinged on that fact without some other glaring flaw. Ghost transitions are difficult and costly. Dunno I played a game three or four months back at EU gold/plat where I made a switch from marine tank to marine ghost when T3 hit, took out a good 30 broodlord/infestor/ultras mostly snipingm wasn't that hard and I was bad back then. Got me the snipe badge  Felt a bit strong, but I dunno, I think the zerg player should have reacted some, he didn't really micro or change composition to deal with it, just kept funneling in big expensive things.
What was zerg gonna do? Transition out of BIO?
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On October 26 2011 07:28 Rannasha wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:26 Eschaton wrote:On October 26 2011 06:34 SpiZe wrote:
Cheaper upgrades comes from the fact that Toss doesn't benefit as the other race from ups, while roaches and marauders gets +2 by attack up, stalker only gets +1 But it's still +2 dmg, the stalker gets 2 attacks if i'm not mistaken, instead of 1. It's like the zealot or colossus. You are mistaken Source: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/StalkerOne of the common complaints about the Stalker is that it scales so poorly with upgrades. On the other hand, if Stalker would get +2 per attack upgrade, they might very well be too strong. The sweet spot is probably in the middle somewhere.
How about +1 (+1 vs armored)? That would seem reasonable (and it's basically what the dragoon had in BW, which worked well).
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The difference in upgrades for attack and armor upgrade levels 2 and 3 (4 upgrades total) works out to be 150/150 cheaper. When you consider the fact that those hit around the 20 minute mark for a relatively fast upgrade oriented play, 150/150 is only really a big difference at the highest of levels. The huge change is the EMP nerf (ty blizzard) and the shield cost buff which could make archon based play a lot more effective, will have to see if anything comes out of that, would be cool to see some fast shield upgrades and archon play in PvT. Now just nerf snipe and the zergs can be happy too.
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On October 26 2011 07:20 wolfe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:18 Tuk wrote:On October 26 2011 07:16 JoeAWESOME wrote:What about snipe? Ghost snipe, the counter to all Z tier 3 :D then stop making t3 when they get mass ghost Fungal on a group of ghosts is deadly, but to be honest the fear of ghosts is unwarranted as of yet. Only pros have been able to use mass ghost effectively in TvZ. I doubt your games have hinged on that fact without some other glaring flaw. Ghost transitions are difficult and costly.
But many of us are spectators before players and would rather have it balanced for the highest level of play. It sucks seeing all BL's and infestors dieing instantly in a zerg army in a pro game. Granted, it only happens in the late-late game which is a point that isn't reached often, but it's still just silly how good it is.
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do not touch the EMP pls ...
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Save 225 minerals and gas between 0 and 3 shield upgrade? Seems less like a buff and more like a "OMG PEOPLE START RESEARCHING THIS" change.
Doesn't seem like a game changer in the slightest, by the time you're at 3 shield upgrade does that amount of minerals and gas really matter? In my opinion no.
The EMP is nice, I guess (being a terran I obviously dislike it lol).
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On October 26 2011 07:33 -NegativeZero- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:28 Rannasha wrote:On October 26 2011 07:26 Eschaton wrote:On October 26 2011 06:34 SpiZe wrote:
Cheaper upgrades comes from the fact that Toss doesn't benefit as the other race from ups, while roaches and marauders gets +2 by attack up, stalker only gets +1 But it's still +2 dmg, the stalker gets 2 attacks if i'm not mistaken, instead of 1. It's like the zealot or colossus. You are mistaken Source: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/StalkerOne of the common complaints about the Stalker is that it scales so poorly with upgrades. On the other hand, if Stalker would get +2 per attack upgrade, they might very well be too strong. The sweet spot is probably in the middle somewhere. How about +1 (+1 vs armored)? That would seem reasonable (and it's basically what the dragoon had in BW, which worked well).
Very reasonable IMO
Re patch changes:
i dont think these changes are going to fix pvt
the problem is that their drop harass is too punishing. We need an option to deal with drops more effectively
If we take too many units out of our army to defend drop, their main army will destroy ours
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Protoss rejoice.
So now our upgrades that effect our units less that come from the most expensive of the buildings (Evo chamber is 75(a drone is lost though so w.e) E bay is 125 and forge is 150). Now that extra 375 minerals/gas for 3/3/3 can be used for hookers and beers...i mean an expansion and extra sentries.
Edit: people complaining about "now they getting them the fastest and the cheapest" its 375/375 over 2190 seconds-10(# cronoboosts used) (assuming 1 forge its 1460 with 2 forges) So its not significant imo.
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On October 26 2011 07:33 happyness wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:20 wolfe wrote:On October 26 2011 07:18 Tuk wrote:On October 26 2011 07:16 JoeAWESOME wrote:What about snipe? Ghost snipe, the counter to all Z tier 3 :D then stop making t3 when they get mass ghost Fungal on a group of ghosts is deadly, but to be honest the fear of ghosts is unwarranted as of yet. Only pros have been able to use mass ghost effectively in TvZ. I doubt your games have hinged on that fact without some other glaring flaw. Ghost transitions are difficult and costly. But many of us are spectators before players and would rather have it balanced for the highest level of play. It sucks seeing all BL's and infestors dieing instantly in a zerg army in a pro game. Granted, it only happens in the late-late game which is a point that isn't reached often, but it's still just silly how good it is.
Something in the terran army needs to counter that combo, vikings certainly don't cut it
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Well, will have to wonder what 3/3/3 protoss units will be like in ZvP now.
Overall I don't think it will be that big of a change. Still won't affect the "EMP hits = rolled, EMP doesn't hit = rolled" that is TvP now.
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Will these changes make Hister's Immortal PvT stronger?
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On October 26 2011 07:31 0neder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:27 FryktSkyene wrote:
Good god we used to have 400/400 for lvl 3 shields?
No one ever got them so we never knew x.x Yeah, it was 300/300 in BW, they must have upped it when they thought Toss was OP. =(
nah, it was 400/400 in BW too
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On October 26 2011 07:33 -NegativeZero- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:28 Rannasha wrote:On October 26 2011 07:26 Eschaton wrote:On October 26 2011 06:34 SpiZe wrote:
Cheaper upgrades comes from the fact that Toss doesn't benefit as the other race from ups, while roaches and marauders gets +2 by attack up, stalker only gets +1 But it's still +2 dmg, the stalker gets 2 attacks if i'm not mistaken, instead of 1. It's like the zealot or colossus. You are mistaken Source: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/StalkerOne of the common complaints about the Stalker is that it scales so poorly with upgrades. On the other hand, if Stalker would get +2 per attack upgrade, they might very well be too strong. The sweet spot is probably in the middle somewhere. How about +1 (+1 vs armored)? That would seem reasonable (and it's basically what the dragoon had in BW, which worked well).
Perhaps we will see that in HotS, because it APPEARS that Warp Gate is getting a few limitations on it that should allow for stronger Gateway units.
I personally would love to see this, as it would make Stalkers > Roaches, and fare better against Tanks.
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Only time will tell if these are too much of a change or not.
I play Protoss so I'm extremely happy and just hope to God that this fixes things without breaking anything ^_^; Gogo Blizzard!
Gl and Hf!
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i would have preferred scaling higher with upgrades....but then again i say this not knowing how it'll affect per hit ratio, like weapon 1 two hits zerglings, scaling a little bit will make no difference.
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wowwww haha huge buff for protoss.
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The reduction of sheild from 900/900 to 675/675, emp nerf, and level 2+3 weapon price drops are going to make Chargelot/HT/Archon so much stronger in the midgame.
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Hugeeeee changes.
The EMP nerf means that just a little over HALF of the previous area is covered.
And cheaper upgrades too
It's a good day to be a toss player
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EPT
