[D]Are mutalisks overpowered in WOL?? - Page 76

On November 14 2011 18:07 Elefanto wrote:
I would love if they would reintroduce Muta micro.
Limit the number of Mutalisk you can automatically select to 12, but let them be able to stack.
It's possible, someone made a map where you could stack Muta, but only 12 of them.

If you would want to go mass Mutas, you would need multiple control groups, thus making fast, swift movements impossible.
Also good control would benefit better players. It would make the whole experience so much better.


Also they could scrap their Muta counter units in Hots.

On November 16 2011 09:45 Juanald wrote:
i defanitely think blizzard is acknoledging theres no way as protoss to deal with mutas when they get 15+ in the late game with up grades but at the same time terran has too many ways to deal with mass muta. i think blizzard is recognizing how 1 thor can instantly take out 15+ mutas so they wanted to tone them down a bit and give protoss a unit that can compete with mutas.

~Juanald

On November 30 2011 13:43 Huckle wrote:
The worst thing about heavy mutalisk play is that it forces the standard protoss to do a 2-base timing attack lest they get contained and then macro stomped by a gazillion base zerg. Who knows what to do if they mass spine crawlers at the natural. Perhaps you just pull back, cannon appropriately and hope you can get blink then storm and a third base. Once you get storm you're safe. You position a templar at each base and hooray....no more harass. But then you realize he has a transition into brood lord and infestor and you die miserably.

The point here is that the current protoss style is quite terrible against zerg at the moment. New plays are going to have to be adapted - perhaps FFE-->stargate will be the new PvZ opener? A cannon plus a few voidrays to hold off most roach ling all-ins followed by heavy phoenix with an emphasis on denying the zerg third would be quite horrific to deal with from the zergs point of view. Once you limit the zerg to two bases a quick transition into colossus or even templar would be great to stop both hydra and infestor builds - while sustaining phoenix production of course to discourage muta play. If you can stop muta play and force either hydras or infestors you're in a much better position to win the game. Of course there is always the threat of corruptors to destroy both phoenix and colossus.....but I'll take my chance against them rather than mutas.

On November 30 2011 13:57 Kharnage wrote:


This exactly.
Pheonix are terrible against muta. on the face of it they are good, but it gives zerg a choice to either keep massing the cheaper and more useful muta and eventually overwhelm the pheonix or switch tech to infestor and fungal the pheonix that the protoss player has invested so much in.

I think it was incontrol on last STOG who said naniwa was doing exactly the right thing to scout for that spire and then attack hard before it completes.
Once the mutas are up you're in big trouble, but just before they arrive zerg is vulnerable to a big push.

On November 11 2011 02:44 willyallthewei wrote:


Wrong on all counts.

1.) sufficiently large numbers of mutas beat even count stalkers w/o sentry support (and sentries are too slow to matter)

2.) defending vs. muta means nothing - because zerg is expanding and droning behind it.

3.) if you walk out to try and kill zerg you're hitting a spine wall.

You clearly have no clue what youre talking about, sorry.

On November 30 2011 14:28 Mordoc wrote:


1) Sure, but that happens for ALL air units against ground units w/o aoe. For mutas, you need about 90 (I have tested personally on unit testers), before mutas start to beat stalkers for cost.

2) defending against muta means you aren't losing anything, while he is investing in very poor combat units, while also losing SUPER valuable mutas (2-3 when you go in to a base from an archon hit, a few Blink stalker shots, a lot of cannon shots/etc), to kill relatively cheap units (you might kill a 2 100 mineral pylons and a single cannon for that).

3) How many spines can a Zerg realistically have? Why can't you get blink (which is great against mutas anyway) and just go around (possible on the majority of maps) the spines? If the Zerg is investing all of his gas on mutas, and all of his mutas on spines, expanding, drones, queens, and Zerglings, he won't have much (a small pack of zerglings and a similarly counted pack of mutas), to your large, well upgraded, very mobile, and very scary stalker group, that can fairly easily go in, snipe some tech, drones, etc, and get out with your army.

On November 30 2011 13:50 pure_protoss wrote:
you guyz want a hard counter? why arent they changing the ''storm'' ability to give them a snare effect on all light air units! Would be gimmicky and wierd but it would work without changeing the entire game...the only thing that it would change else is a giving a good way to protoss to counter mass phoenix in pvp beside that...I dont see any reason not to do it! and it would not be op since HT's are so slow compared to mutas (its like fungal growth vs phoenix )

On December 01 2011 16:40 Huckle wrote:


The whole point is that muta play allows the Zerg player to expand at will and then transition into a more stable broodlord infestor build which literally destroys anything a protoss can realistically build on 2-3 bases. Mutas are decent in combat as well. Watch any pro match....once mutas get to about 25+ they are much better than stalkers in equal numbers. It doesn't matter if they beat them for cost because Zerg will have more bases, drones, and resources so that they can afford the critical mass of mutas - hence the cost-efficiency is irrelevant.