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I wouldn't call SH redundant, but I do think it's just a horribly unit from conception.
Blizzards idea of "controlling space" for a Terran is a Shredder (because apparently they don't like the idea that you lose a siege tank if you try and siege without marine support...). A siege damage unit in a compact area to hold a position. That is exactly what Zerg has been asking for in the Lurker.
Instead, Zerg gets a "slow methodical grind" unit. The video says it's a "great way to gain map control" but you need the map control to get these guys in position in the first place! I don't see them being useful for defence. I would much rather have a Lurker or two burrow in mineral lines while a Terran drops repeatedly or be able to defend attacks at a choke by controlling the space... The Swarm Host just isn't that kind of unit and the only use I can see so far is to apply moderate pressure to a hard turtling Terran in the hope that they splash damage themself to death with dispensable (and seemingly useless) cannon fodder...
On a personal note I think the design is ugly as hell as well...
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On reddit you can read that swarm host is 3 supply unit and costs 200/100 sooo thats pretty bad.
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On October 25 2011 01:40 r_con wrote:
there is a reason at why lurkers are not good in this game, and that's because marauders will rape them, as well marines are higher health, so lurkers would have to do more damage.
By this logic there would be half of the units gone because unit X completely destroys them. Just sayin... ofc Lurker need a SC2 adjustment...
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Well they certainly aren't Lurkers. Lurkers would have fit more I think  .
(God this is probably my 10th post asking for lurkers  )
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I think these units are more suitable for harassment..
Anyway, broodlords seem better from what video shows.
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i think this unit seems to be really cool and good
1: siege unit
the fact that they live so long period of time and dont need a target to shoot out thees guys (infact its "built" from the swarm host allows it to have the greatest "range" in the game.
you can slowly break down defenses being on a very far distance so tanks cant kill you, plus its on the ground so vikings cant kill you too
2: meatshield
i think this unit creates much potential for just saving time and making it harder to break down the zerg. maybe its very difficult to break down spine crawlers, hydras and infestor if these locusts creep sprinting in and soaking up damage much like the broodlord acts in this situation. but again since its a ground unit that burrows, costs less and is lower tier with a far longer range. maybe it will do the job better than the broodlords as far as "blocking" the opponents army goes
3: cost efficiency in the stalement late game scenario
kinda goes back to my first point but i just wanna point out this in the late game abit. imagine the late game scenario where neither one of the players want or can attack.
this is the only single unit that can slowly break down the enemy. you might say infestors infested terran can do the same but ghost raven and even siege tank range might be too big of a threat.
ofcourse the borodlord cant poke at this defense as well from terran becaues of the vikings and ghosts.
get enough amounts of locusts to actually reach the terran, (might only need 1 swarm host per siege tank in this scenario) then slowly damage him from a far distance without being in danger at all. this could change the basic concept of zvt lategame and might force terran to be the aggressor when you reach high enough numbers of these guys
ofcourse these are all just ideas and speculations but i think theres potential for this unit that no other unit has for zerg, even for any race.
the "attack range" combined with spawning free units makes it really unique, on top of being tier 2 where a special unit like this "belongs" in tier 3 (like the broodlord)
the weakness of the unit is obvious tho. straight up engagements it might not be cost efficient to use, its slow movement and the constant need of being protected by other units as it seems to be very fragile alone
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It should be shooting out banelings, then we're talking :D
EDIT: On a serious note. I don't think this unit will be that useful in it's current state. I think Zerg needs a siege unit that will be able to land some hits while there is already loads of Zerglings/Ultra's, whatever... Having some small units running around, not even being able to get into melee to make damage is rather useless.
Zergs have problems breaking chokes because we are melee and weak units, yet in big numbers. We don't need yet another unit to clump up our chokes.
I believe somekind of siege unit with a projectile kind of attack instead of spawning a unit would be a better idea.
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I don't have a problem with the design, but I hope the numbers are good enough. ex: The locust will be pretty good or maybe the swarm host will be cheap
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On October 25 2011 01:39 sagefreke wrote:
People in this thread are grossly underestimating the amount of damage these things can soak up. They have almost 90 hp per a locust! That means if you spread your SH out siege tanks will take a minimum of 2 shots to kill free units. And it's not like you can just ignore them either since the locusts deal fairly good dps.
SH is not a unit you just mass and win with. They're a support unit.
This.
People seems to get too attached to the video. Of course if you burrow a bunch of swarm host together, it doesn't look that good. But imagine, you burrow every 2 of them so that the minions are spawned at 2,3 sec interval, that would be much more effective.
Moreover, normally Zerg army is suffered from the clump-up effect. No matter how well you spread your zergling, baneling, when you a move them, they will gradually clump up to gether. But with the swarm host, because the minions are rallied, you can choose where they need to rally to, ultimately you can make a swarm of units attacking to the enemy without getting clumped up. This alone makes the unit much more better than Broodlord, or infested terran.
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I don't know why people are so upset about this. I really like the idea that the OP said to implement an interceptor like mechanic. This is my favorite unit that they are adding to the game from HoTS and I will be switching to zerg from protoss if they keep them in
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I still prefer:
okay its this: a t1.5-t2 unit, that has to burrow to go into siege mode to shoot ground target, but shoots air targets when unburrowed.
This will only make it viable when zerg has burrow (t2), but helps at t1 to defend air.
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/l75qj/new_zerg_unit_in_heart_of_the_swarm/c2qbjqr
It would solve the major problems of zerg: ZvZ midgame being to random and aggressive, zerg early anti air, and marine opness. It would even give more meaning to zerg range upgrades.
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After some thought, I think having a swarm host, but with a Broodlord kind of attack would maybe be much better. In such a way, it would actually deal some damage on an initial hit as well as spawn some "broodlings".
Anyway, I'll let Blizzard decide what to give me... I'll have to play with what I get anyway  It's not like my opinion will change that of Blizzards :D
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One more thing, I didn't see anyone else mention that it looks like you can burrow -- send your swarm -- unburrow and move away while they recharge.
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On October 24 2011 23:50 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
Imagine Swarm host/infestor/brood lord.... *shivers*
Imagine when the Marines come and stim... *cries*
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On October 25 2011 02:01 Baha wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 23:50 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
Imagine Swarm host/infestor/brood lord.... *shivers* Imagine when the Marines come and stim... *cries*
Luckily they are adding the viper ^^
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I like them. It's more units on the field for the zerg, which to me is a good thing. Zerg needs to feel more "swarmy" and this is a step in the right direction.
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The way I see it these units are to *force* your opponent to move or act. Currently, staggering siege tanks can make almost any player move, even in TvT, so the swarm host will now force terran to do something to deal with the swarm hosts which the zerg player can then counter, or move back, giving back ground that the zerg wants. It is not redundant, since it creates map control the other units don't. A brood lord can be kited by vikings, and infestors with infested terrans can just be ran from while the units die off on their own. Also, the range of a infestor is short enough that it is within siege tank range if scanned, and they die easily. Swarm host is long range and hard to pin down.
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If this unit really is 200/100 cost i think it's terrible in this iteration. Zerg to me is all about droning like mad then getting powerful units at the very last second to defend. In order to build enough of these to stop an early mid-game push you would have to sacrifice quite a number of banelings or delay your spire by quite a bit. Even then, if you get a few out, the damage potential is not enough to force the terran or protoss to back up.
The only way i see this being worthwhile is giving the locusts a mini-baneling death splash, maybe 5-8 damage or so and making the spawn rate higher than 1 lifecycle of spawn life. By the time zerg is ready to push to attack and break a siege line, it usually is endgame, to which the placement of this unit would be hive tech, and therefore should be more powerful, but also overlaps to heavily with the broodlord.
I guess you could make an entirely spawn unit based army and it might be fun in casual games, but we'll have to see if these really make a difference.
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I think they look awesome. They look slightly capable of burrow mirco by burrowing, releasing the locusts, and then unburrowing with support if they get in trouble. They don't seem to have a very long burrow or unburrow time and they wouldn't have much risk. Dunno though.
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On October 25 2011 01:34 ch4ppi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 01:27 Stropheum wrote:
I personally would never make a broodlord and hold position it over a ramp to my expansion for the entirety of a game, but I would definitely do this with swarm hosts. This was a common tactic in brood war and It'll make the game much more interesting in my opinion Yes it was common with Lurkers.... But this is no Lurker. 8 Marine drops rofl-stomp a single or maybe two SwarmHosts very hard. I dont even believe the Locusts will outdmg the medivac heal
Would you ask your plumber to fix your car?
SH is NOT a drop counter, that is not its design, it is designed as a blocker, like sentry, battlecruisers and ultralisks.
Sure you could make it work, just as a sieged tanks in the mineral line could, but why would you put SH into the mineral line when they're better tools to deal with the drop, e.g. hydras or roaches?
In fact I would say with SH, drops are made WORSE, because now the SH can pretty much hold the fort while the roaches go deal with the mineral line drop, rendering the frontline unable to move forward when there's >5 90hp locusts per wave running down the ramp.
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EPT
