|
On October 24 2011 05:11 psteeleneg wrote:
The shredder attacks ground and air, has a very large radius and does EXTREME amounts of damage per second. The "not working close to your own units" doesn't matter. It isn't shut off by buildings. imagine a terran on shattered temple get the base in the corner as his third and then put two of them BEHIND a depot wall off and a couple turrets next to them. vs zerg this would completely shut down any chances of doing a run-by. melee / short range attackers won't be able to get past the depot wall to even attack the shredders before getting whipped out and mutas dont have the hp or defence to take them out while taking the damage from it as well as turrets protecting them.
Zerg will never be able to break into a 3rd when the vulnerable entrance can be shut down so easilly.
Hydralisks/roaches/swarm host seem to be able to take care of shredders just fine.
|
On October 24 2011 05:04 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 04:59 Rinkku wrote:
I'd rather read comments than post, and honnestly who here can tell if a unit seems really usefull or imba before trying it.
But man, when I see the tempest, I have to join with those who criticize it : What has it been designed for ? He 's got no utility whatsoever. Who cares dealing with mass mutalisk ? Who goes with mass muta anyway, except in bronze, it's useless vs protoss.
And as showed in the vid, it's clearly the only air unit it can conter effectively, but once again : We don't need it ! Take it back ! They said it will be good against any massed air unit. So you can fight vikings and corruptors with it.
I don't see how it could possibly be good against massed vikings. The current range on the Tempest is nowhere near the range of the viking so they can be kited indefinitely.
|
On October 24 2011 05:11 psteeleneg wrote:
The shredder attacks ground and air, has a very large radius and does EXTREME amounts of damage per second. The "not working close to your own units" doesn't matter. It isn't shut off by buildings. imagine a terran on shattered temple get the base in the corner as his third and then put two of them BEHIND a depot wall off and a couple turrets next to them. vs zerg this would completely shut down any chances of doing a run-by. melee / short range attackers won't be able to get past the depot wall to even attack the shredders before getting whipped out and mutas dont have the hp or defence to take them out while taking the damage from it as well as turrets protecting them.
Zerg will never be able to break into a 3rd when the vulnerable entrance can be shut down so easilly.
Neural Parasite maybe? I don't know how it interacts with shredders. Maybe you can kill two at once? Does it kill burrowed units?
Please do not make such drastic claims before we try it out. Right now there are only possibilities.
|
Just a thought, is JB turning SC2 into C&C where every race has very similar units?
Look at the new zerg siege unit, it's similar to siege tanks in that it forces you to run out and deal with the threat in front of your base.
The new helions are kinda zealoty with splash... I enjoyed the fact that protoss units are generally too meaty to take on head on and that you had to kite to win big engagements. Seems like now less micro will be required.
You cant use colossi on the high ground anymore against zerg.
Dunno, just seems like a very lame way to bring the game into balance by making every race have the exact same raiding, tanking and siege capabilities.
Could be wrong but this is the impression I'm getting from this.
|
On October 24 2011 05:45 Cloudster wrote:
Just a thought, is JB turning SC2 into C&C where every race has very similar units?
Look at the new zerg siege unit, it's similar to siege tanks in that it forces you to run out and deal with the threat in front of your base.
The new helions are kinda zealoty with splash... I enjoyed the fact that protoss units are generally too meaty to take on head on and that you had to kite to win big engagements. Seems like now less micro will be required.
You cant use colossi on the high ground anymore against zerg.
Dunno, just seems like a very lame way to bring the game into balance by making every race have the exact same raiding, tanking and siege capabilities.
Could be wrong but this is the impression I'm getting from this.
I think you are confusing "units" with "roles". Yes, they have similar roles, but they carry them out in different ways. For example, looking back at BW, the Siege Tank and Lurker had very similar roles (a long range, "artillery" unit that took a short time to set up), but turned out to be very different units. The BW Siege Tank was a slow moving wall of death that crushed nearly every ground unit, while the Lurker was more Zerg, using quick its quick move speed and line-splash type of attack to quickly either defend a farther Hatchery or bust a defended point.
Similarly, the Swarm Host is very different from a Siege Tank. From what I've seen, the Swarm Host will be more like the Brood Lord, sending in powerful, disposable minions in waves, rather than volleying down shots from afar while being protected by Marines. Same role, but very different method of execution.
|
Well toss is f'ed....looks like were gonna have to mass replicate every game if we wanna stand a chance against the new untis from terran and zerg...oh and thanks for the anti-air unit because thats definantly our main problem.
|
If they remove Overseer, how will Zerg get detection? I have been trying to look it up, but have not found it mentioned. The Viper surely needs a spire, so Zerg need detection earlier. Have they brought back detection on overlords? That sound too good to be true, so how do they fix it? I doubt you need to have spores only until you can pop a spire.
|
On October 24 2011 06:45 HowardRoark wrote:
If they remove Overseer, how will Zerg get detection? I have been trying to look it up, but have not found it mentioned. The Viper surely needs a spire, so Zerg need detection earlier. Have they brought back detection on overlords? That sound too good to be true, so how do they fix it? I doubt you need to have spores only until you can pop a spire.
the viper turns units into detectors now i believe,
|
On October 24 2011 06:48 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 06:45 HowardRoark wrote:
If they remove Overseer, how will Zerg get detection? I have been trying to look it up, but have not found it mentioned. The Viper surely needs a spire, so Zerg need detection earlier. Have they brought back detection on overlords? That sound too good to be true, so how do they fix it? I doubt you need to have spores only until you can pop a spire. the viper turns units into detectors now i believe,
Yes, but the Viper surely needs a spire, and I doubt Blizzard intend Z to survive until Z can build a spire and a Viper?
|
On October 24 2011 06:50 HowardRoark wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 06:48 arb wrote:On October 24 2011 06:45 HowardRoark wrote:
If they remove Overseer, how will Zerg get detection? I have been trying to look it up, but have not found it mentioned. The Viper surely needs a spire, so Zerg need detection earlier. Have they brought back detection on overlords? That sound too good to be true, so how do they fix it? I doubt you need to have spores only until you can pop a spire. the viper turns units into detectors now i believe, Yes, but the Viper surely needs a spire, and I doubt Blizzard intend Z to survive until Z can build a spire and a Viper?
Viper does not require spire, only lair, and spawns with enough energy to ocular.
|
On October 24 2011 06:52 InvalidID wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 06:50 HowardRoark wrote:On October 24 2011 06:48 arb wrote:On October 24 2011 06:45 HowardRoark wrote:
If they remove Overseer, how will Zerg get detection? I have been trying to look it up, but have not found it mentioned. The Viper surely needs a spire, so Zerg need detection earlier. Have they brought back detection on overlords? That sound too good to be true, so how do they fix it? I doubt you need to have spores only until you can pop a spire. the viper turns units into detectors now i believe, Yes, but the Viper surely needs a spire, and I doubt Blizzard intend Z to survive until Z can build a spire and a Viper? Viper does not require spire, only lair, and spawns with enough energy to ocular.
i think both the viper and swarm host only requires infestation pit.
|
On October 24 2011 06:50 HowardRoark wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 06:48 arb wrote:On October 24 2011 06:45 HowardRoark wrote:
If they remove Overseer, how will Zerg get detection? I have been trying to look it up, but have not found it mentioned. The Viper surely needs a spire, so Zerg need detection earlier. Have they brought back detection on overlords? That sound too good to be true, so how do they fix it? I doubt you need to have spores only until you can pop a spire. the viper turns units into detectors now i believe, Yes, but the Viper surely needs a spire, and I doubt Blizzard intend Z to survive until Z can build a spire and a Viper?
I think it unlocks at hive tech, actually.
I don't see the problem with Z's mobile detection being delayed since spores are cheap and relatively mobile(for a static defense, anyway). Helps T and P use cloaked banshees/ghosts and DTs for map control.
|
That new defiler unit and ultras with charge will make mech totally obsolete vs Zerg I think. Only well micros mnm will be able to beat it I think. Maybe well get to see some bw style mnm play including stsrport play as well.
|
Now 3 people tell me 3 different things about Viper: Only Lair, Infestation Pit or Hive. Guess I am not the only one confused how it is unlocked. 
But if it only require Lair, it would feel stupid to be able to build an air unit without Spire!
|
fairly sure it is only lair. probably specifically so that zerg can get mobile detection at a reasonable time
|
On October 24 2011 07:01 HowardRoark wrote:Now 3 people tell me 3 different things about Viper: Only Lair, Infestation Pit or Hive. Guess I am not the only one confused how it is unlocked. But if it only require Lair, it would feel stupid to be able to build an air unit without Spire!
Well you've been building overlords and overseers up until now havnt you ? ^_^
|
On October 24 2011 07:01 HowardRoark wrote:Now 3 people tell me 3 different things about Viper: Only Lair, Infestation Pit or Hive. Guess I am not the only one confused how it is unlocked. But if it only require Lair, it would feel stupid to be able to build an air unit without Spire!
It's either the swarm host or the viper on the infestation pit, but I can't remember which. >_>
Positions on the tech tree are probably going to change a bit between now and release, anyway.
|
On October 24 2011 05:15 Vehemus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 05:04 Sandermatt wrote:On October 24 2011 04:59 Rinkku wrote:
I'd rather read comments than post, and honnestly who here can tell if a unit seems really usefull or imba before trying it.
But man, when I see the tempest, I have to join with those who criticize it : What has it been designed for ? He 's got no utility whatsoever. Who cares dealing with mass mutalisk ? Who goes with mass muta anyway, except in bronze, it's useless vs protoss.
And as showed in the vid, it's clearly the only air unit it can conter effectively, but once again : We don't need it ! Take it back ! They said it will be good against any massed air unit. So you can fight vikings and corruptors with it. I don't see how it could possibly be good against massed vikings. The current range on the Tempest is nowhere near the range of the viking so they can be kited indefinitely.
Tempests are significantly faster than vikings and have 6 range. Indefinite kiting is improbable.
|
On October 24 2011 07:01 HowardRoark wrote:Now 3 people tell me 3 different things about Viper: Only Lair, Infestation Pit or Hive. Guess I am not the only one confused how it is unlocked. But if it only require Lair, it would feel stupid to be able to build an air unit without Spire!
Whatever it does end up being, they're well aware how the tech tree works. They know you need it within a reasonable time frame to counter stealth unit rushes like DTs.
|
guys im not gonna lie. that ultra charge looks insanely OP the more i see it (and this is coming from passionate zerg player)
there basically blink ultras. it would have just bee better to simply make ultras walk over smaller units... but w/e. im certainly going to have fun with it because ive been doing ultra build for awhile now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
