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Wait, screw entombing minerals - can an Oracle Phaseshift out a command center?
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On October 22 2011 08:29 Whitewing wrote:
The warhounds don't do splash and are anti-armored units. Where are people getting this from?
+ Show Spoiler +
says AOE right in the description.
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
On October 22 2011 08:40 ayaz2810 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 08:37 Toadvine wrote:On October 22 2011 08:33 iNotZerg wrote: I gave in and bought the panel stream...so.. Random things Im typing while watching the stream.
They note that these things can be changed.
~so the replicant can copy any unit you have vision, and you automatically get the upgrades, according to david kim. ~ viper is a seige breaker. ~brood host spawns 4 locust that has 90 hp and 16 dmg. ~oracle can disable buildings, such as spores, and spines, as well as phase out tech structure. ~oracle is pretty fast. (looks as fast as a muta IMO) ~Reapers can regenerate health. ~Hive tech burrow move for banelings. ~Hive speed upgrade for hydras. ~Dustin said he thinks that the replicant will be op because it will force terran to not build seige tanks/ghost/bcs ~David said they are trying to not make the viper so expensive so that detection is impossible, or too high up in the tech tree but not too cheap so that the pull ability can be abused. ~Apparently, they do read the forums. ~They said they were going to watch the mules in case they ever get imba. ~as of right now, that psudo cannon for toss requires gateway.
More info as soon as i get them.
... SC2 is doomed. I despise ghosts in PvT, but I think a game design that forces any units out of the equation is very bad.
Dustin stated specifically that he wouldnt allow the game to get to the point where terran refuses to build siege tanks, paraphrasing, "not because they didnt want to, but because they were scared of them being copied"
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yo zerg dudes,
I'm gonna replicate your vipers so I can steal more vipers by pulling them into my vipers
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On October 22 2011 08:42 XRaDiiX wrote: Just to get this out here People This is what David Kims Thinks
~David said they are trying to not make the viper so expensive so that detection is impossible, or too high up in the tech tree but not too cheap so that the pull ability can be abused.
Even though this is Zergs Expansion he want Zerg to Die.
Basically David Kim want Zergs to die to Cloak Cheese alot in SC2 HOTS
Why not make Vipers buildable early, but require long expensive upgrades for their other abilities?
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On October 22 2011 08:44 Roxy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 08:40 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 22 2011 08:39 TheKefka wrote:On October 22 2011 08:35 jmbthirteen wrote: I love people that complain about units they have never used in a game they never played... Why is it wrong to complain about units with abilities that are clearly broken or totally wrong for the nature of the game? I can guarantee you that that Viper pull-in ability will never go live,not in a million years. Why wouldn't you complain about a obviously stupid unit or ability so they stop wasting time on it or re work asap. because you have absolutely no idea if its broken or not. Free kill of a colosus for just the cost of energy? for real? you dont see a problem with that?
Mass Recall Nullifies it
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On October 22 2011 08:41 Jayjay54 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 08:37 Toadvine wrote:On October 22 2011 08:33 iNotZerg wrote: I gave in and bought the panel stream...so.. Random things Im typing while watching the stream.
They note that these things can be changed.
~so the replicant can copy any unit you have vision, and you automatically get the upgrades, according to david kim. ~ viper is a seige breaker. ~brood host spawns 4 locust that has 90 hp and 16 dmg. ~oracle can disable buildings, such as spores, and spines, as well as phase out tech structure. ~oracle is pretty fast. (looks as fast as a muta IMO) ~Reapers can regenerate health. ~Hive tech burrow move for banelings. ~Hive speed upgrade for hydras. ~Dustin said he thinks that the replicant will be op because it will force terran to not build seige tanks/ghost/bcs ~David said they are trying to not make the viper so expensive so that detection is impossible, or too high up in the tech tree but not too cheap so that the pull ability can be abused. ~Apparently, they do read the forums. ~They said they were going to watch the mules in case they ever get imba. ~as of right now, that psudo cannon for toss requires gateway.
More info as soon as i get them.
... SC2 is doomed. hahahaha  this is so awesome. 200 gas for a copy of a cheaper unit. and dustin thinks they are forced to avoid the units...
Might I add, that the 200/200 unit comes with the ability straight from the get go. So if you pop out your first tank, and your still researching seige. The toss already has seige up and running. I think that's pretty good. If a toss sees a banshee, replicate it, it will already have cloak to harass with, or an infestor with both upgrades researched already.
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I really dont understand the changes made to the reaper and the baneling. seems like a really gimmicky way to make banelings a (devestating) harass unit, without adding more detection... My guess will be that this upgrade wont last through the first couple of patches.
Reaper seems pointless, it will still be useless for everything except scouting.
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On October 22 2011 08:44 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 08:43 lariat wrote:On October 22 2011 08:42 XRaDiiX wrote: Just to get this out here People This is what David Kims Thinks
~David said they are trying to not make the viper so expensive so that detection is impossible, or too high up in the tech tree but not too cheap so that the pull ability can be abused.
Even though this is Zergs Expansion he want Zerg to Die. Ok, now you are just trolling. Read the quote and read what you just wrote. T.T This guy posted it http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=277762¤tpage=214#4266
Kim said they are not trying to make getting detection impossible, or make it prohibitively expensive. I think a one-time use is potentially problematic but I don't think it justifies your overly obnoxious whining.
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On October 22 2011 08:45 Erik.TheRed wrote: yo zerg dudes,
I'm gonna replicate your vipers so I can steal more vipers by pulling them into my vipers
LMFAO
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On October 22 2011 08:44 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 08:41 VoirDire wrote:I'll just paste this here: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/lkbxw/tons_of_heart_of_the_swarm_new_unit_info_kickass/TONS of Heart of the Swarm new unit info! Kickass (self.starcraft)
This document lists the new units and abilities in the BlizzCon® 2011 build of StarCraft® II: Heart of the Swarm™. Please keep in mind that Heart of the Swarm is still in development, and all of the units and abilities you see described below are subject to change. It's possible that some of these units and abilities will be discarded and new ones will be created to replace them as we continue to iterate on the game design. What we've listed below is just a snapshot of where we currently stand on multiplayer Heart of the Swarm.
Also note that some Wings of Liberty™ units have been cut -- our goal is to avoid redundancy and maintain a tight and manageable number of multiplayer units and abilities for players to consider as they play competitive matches.
Protoss
Upon analyzing data from their most recent battles, the protoss have identified a few areas of improvement that would help them maximize effectiveness against their enemies. Based on their findings, the protoss have augmented their arsenal with a second psionic unit, a new way to counter flocks of Mutalisks, and a new form of enemy harassment.
Tempest
Description: The tempest is a new capital ship that deals massive area-of-effect damage to air units. It also has a standard ground attack, but its chief role is to help gain air superiority.
Oracle
Description: The Oracle is a psionic warship, built from a Stargate, that uses several unique abilities to raid and harass the enemy. The first is Entomb, which can temporarily block mineral fields from being harvested. Another ability, Preordain, grants vision of a targeted enemy building, allowing the protoss to see which units or technologies are being researched. Rounding out its kit is Phase Shift, which phases a target building, preventing it from being attacked, using its abilities, or granting technology. Not only can structures like missile turrets be prevented from attacking, but using this ability on a zerg Spire would block the production of Mutalisks, Corruptors, and air upgrades.
Replicant
Description: Replicants have one ability: to transform itself into any non-massive unit. They're expensive, so cloning a Zergling would not be very cost effective, but transforming into a specialized unit like a Raven, Infestor, or Siege Tank could open up interesting strategic options for the protoss.
New Abilities
A new ability called Arc Shield has also been added to the nexus -- this ability will temporarily add additional shield and building armor, as well as a weapon very similar to a photon cannon. The weapon does the same amount of damage as a regular photon cannon but only damages light units. This ability will help the protoss buy time to defend in the case of an unexpected drop from an enemy. Another ability, Mass Recall, has also been added to the nexus, which allows protoss players to teleport armies from out in the field back to the nexus. The recalled units are stunned for a few seconds when recalled.
Retired Units
As we add units to the multiplayer game, sometimes it’s necessary to remove units or alter others’ abilities to maintain game balance and eliminate redundancy. In the current design of Heart of the Swarm, the protoss are not able to deploy Motherships and Carriers, though these and other units that don’t exist in Heart of the Swarm multiplayer will still be available in Wings of Liberty multiplayer and the solo campaign.
Terran
The resourceful terrans have also been improving their technology to better survive their battles in the Koprulu sector.
Shredder
Description: The Shredder is a new unit built from the Factory that allows the terran player to control the battlefield. In its mobile form, the Shredder has no attack -- but when set to stationary mode, it channels area-effect damage to both the air and ground. If a friendly unit enters the range of the Shredder, the weapon shuts off.
Warhound
Description: The Warhound is a small, walking ground mech that wields an effective anti-air weapon with splash damage, much like the Thor from Wings of Liberty. The difference is that the Warhound is smaller and much more nimble, though it gives up some range on its anti-air missiles in exchange for this mobility. The Warhound also wields a small ground attack weapon that does additional damage to mechanical units, making it particularly well suited to taking out enemy Siege Tanks -- though it's not particularly effective against non-mechanical units.
Thor (Modified)
Description: While it was always quite effective against ground and air, one of the biggest problems with the Thor has been that it’s too big and bulky to move around well... so the terrans decided to made it even bigger. In Heart of the Swarm multiplayer, terran players will be limited to having only one Thor at a time, but this new behemoth hits even harder with its regular ground weapons and can absorb a tremendous amount of damage. The terrans have also swapped out the Thor's anti-air weapons for a bombardment ability that does a huge amount of damage to a wide swath of ground. The Thor will need time to set up its bombardment cannons, as well as time to repack them after an attack, much like a Siege Tank. Of course, fielding such a powerful weapon requires a hefty investment in technology, so both an Armory and a Fusion Core will be required before a Thor can be built.
New Abilities
The Hellion has been upgraded to a transforming unit similar to the Viking. When transformed into its new battle mode, the Hellion will gain in hit points and get a stronger flame attack that covers a short arc in front of it. This makes the Hellion more effective in late-game fights against large clusters of light units such as Zealots. The Ghost’s Cloak ability has also been modified -- it will no longer be a toggled effect. Instead, there will be a one-time energy cost to activate Cloak for a specific time duration. Energy regeneration will continue while cloaked, and Ghosts can re-cloak while nuking without interrupting the call-down. The Battlecruiser will gain a speed-boost ability called Redline Reactor, which is governed by a cooldown. And finally, the Reaper no longer has a special building attack, but instead has a passive health-regeneration that allows it to recharge hit points quickly when out of combat.
Zerg
The zerg continue to evolve and adapt to changing environments, particularly the dangers they face on the battlefield. New creatures will help the zerg stage more effective sieges and add unique enemy-manipulating abilities to their arsenal.
Viper
Description: The Viper is a new flying unit with three unique abilities. Blinding Cloud temporarily reduces the attack range of all ground units inside the cloud to melee range, and prevents energy-based abilities from being used. Abduct allows the Viper to physically pull a unit to the Viper’s location. Finally, the Viper has a one-time ability called Ocular Parasite, which allows it to detach its eye stalk and meld it onto any friendly, non-massive unit, turning that unit into a detector.
Swarm Host
Description: The Swarm Host is a slow-moving ground unit that has no standard attack. When burrowed, the Swarm Host spawns a continuous stream of slow-moving melee units called Locusts that can be used to lay siege and pressure entrenched enemy positions.
New Abilities
The Corruptor's Corruption ability has been replaced by a new ability called Siphon that allows Corruptors to target buildings and slowly damage them. This damage is converted into resources for the zerg at the same time. Ultralisks have a new Burrow Charge skill that lets them dive underground and instantly surface at a target, allowing them to initiate the fight faster on a crowded battlefield. Finally, the Baneling has evolved tunneling claws similar to the Roach, which allows them to move while burrowed -- this new evolution will mean other races will need to be even more wary about hidden drops and making sure to have detectors with their army. Finally, the Hydralisk has a new upgrade that allows them to move faster while not on creep.
Retired Units
The Overseer has been cut; its detection ability has been replaced by the Viper and its Ocular Parasite. One-time ability????? G.G.
It makes other units into detectors, probably permanently. So get a viper, make your queen into a detector.
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Have people considered what happens when a zerg gets vipers and infestors? Fungaling units in place under dark swarm is the most broken thing I've ever heard of.
And blinding cloud or whatever it's called is a silence. I can't believe this.
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On October 22 2011 08:44 Roxy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 08:40 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 22 2011 08:39 TheKefka wrote:On October 22 2011 08:35 jmbthirteen wrote: I love people that complain about units they have never used in a game they never played... Why is it wrong to complain about units with abilities that are clearly broken or totally wrong for the nature of the game? I can guarantee you that that Viper pull-in ability will never go live,not in a million years. Why wouldn't you complain about a obviously stupid unit or ability so they stop wasting time on it or re work asap. because you have absolutely no idea if its broken or not. Free kill of a colosus for just the cost of energy? for real? you dont see a problem with that?
Queen's Spawn Broodling says Hi
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
On October 22 2011 08:45 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 08:44 Roxy wrote:On October 22 2011 08:40 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 22 2011 08:39 TheKefka wrote:On October 22 2011 08:35 jmbthirteen wrote: I love people that complain about units they have never used in a game they never played... Why is it wrong to complain about units with abilities that are clearly broken or totally wrong for the nature of the game? I can guarantee you that that Viper pull-in ability will never go live,not in a million years. Why wouldn't you complain about a obviously stupid unit or ability so they stop wasting time on it or re work asap. because you have absolutely no idea if its broken or not. Free kill of a colosus for just the cost of energy? for real? you dont see a problem with that? Mass Recall Nullifies it
To mass recall we need as many nexi as you have vipers, and if you pull 4 colossi and we recall them, suprise, we now have 4 colossi in our main and our army is dead.
We could recall the entire army, but that would reset all of our nexi to bring the colossi individually too, and well, recall our entire army during an attack.
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hots definitely isn't the direction i was hoping/expecting sc2 to go....for now. i hope they simplify abilities and units while focus on synergy between units...not gimmicky and "COOL!!!!" (as majority would see this shit as) stuff.
just an opinion, as i'm just a grumpy o' man still thinking warpgate is one of worst mechanic for starcraft2 as it has more negative results than positive.
now i really dont mind auto-cast, auto inject, auto chrono, auto mule...do what you want blizzard
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It's hard to tell what will be the consequences of all these changes, but I really can't see how mass recall for 75 nexus energy can not be overpowered.
Not to mention it rewards the player with bad macro.
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On October 22 2011 08:42 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 08:40 ayaz2810 wrote:On October 22 2011 08:37 Toadvine wrote:On October 22 2011 08:33 iNotZerg wrote: I gave in and bought the panel stream...so.. Random things Im typing while watching the stream.
They note that these things can be changed.
~so the replicant can copy any unit you have vision, and you automatically get the upgrades, according to david kim. ~ viper is a seige breaker. ~brood host spawns 4 locust that has 90 hp and 16 dmg. ~oracle can disable buildings, such as spores, and spines, as well as phase out tech structure. ~oracle is pretty fast. (looks as fast as a muta IMO) ~Reapers can regenerate health. ~Hive tech burrow move for banelings. ~Hive speed upgrade for hydras. ~Dustin said he thinks that the replicant will be op because it will force terran to not build seige tanks/ghost/bcs ~David said they are trying to not make the viper so expensive so that detection is impossible, or too high up in the tech tree but not too cheap so that the pull ability can be abused. ~Apparently, they do read the forums. ~They said they were going to watch the mules in case they ever get imba. ~as of right now, that psudo cannon for toss requires gateway.
More info as soon as i get them.
... SC2 is doomed. I despise ghosts in PvT, but I think a game design that forces any units out of the equation is very bad. Huh? I'm saying Dustin Browder is retarded if he thinks Protoss being able to produce Ghosts or Siege Tanks for 200/200 a piece would even be good in PvT, much less "op".
There's more to the game than resource costs. I get the point he's making. Just look at what a few tanks in TvT do. Replicating a couple of Siege tanks with a Protoss army would make a Terran very wary of being the aggressor (something which they're usually quite happy and eager to be).
And as someone else mentioned, EMPing your opponent's Ghosts before they EMP you just gave your ENTIRE army it's shields back. EMP is a bajillion times easier to use than Feedback.
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So dts openings in pvz will probably be standard because zerg wont have mobile detection before spire....
(Inca will be a pvz sniper)
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On October 22 2011 08:30 Dungaurd wrote: Well looks like I'm leaving toss to go back to terran. Taking away our mama ships and carriers to give us an anti-muta capital ship? I got 99 problems but mutas ain't one of them. I mean I have storm, archons, blink stalkers and phoenix, do I need a tempest?
When I said I wanted a harassment unit I meant something that actually killed workers, like a banshee or mutas, not something that locked the mineral line down for a few seconds.
And still no fix on the fact that ghosts outrange templars and any competent terran can emp a protoss army before they do anything
Don't post your unmerited opinions on how difficult it is to EMP a Protoss because: - This isnt the thread for it - The game is going to change
If I told you to make carriers and mothership you would probably tell me how bad they are then bitch about EMP again. Now your mad that they're getting replaced?
On October 22 2011 08:47 Krewli wrote: So dts openings in pvz will probably be standard because zerg wont have mobile detection before spire....
(Inca will be a pvz sniper) Why would you say this? The game isnt out. Give blizzard some fucking respect.
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
On October 22 2011 08:47 Elean wrote: It's hard to tell what will be the consequences of all these changes, but I really can't see how mass recall for 75 nexus energy can not be overpowered.
Not to mention it rewards the player with bad macro.
It should have a large cooldown or something, unique across the entire game for all nexii, but i think it is an interesting idea. Having ten mass recalls avalible though for example would be broken
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