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On October 18 2011 09:44 ampson wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 09:38 Warpish wrote:
I don't understand why so many people are hating the collosus. I don't want units removed, i want more units therefore more possibilities. If I'm missing the Reaver too much i can always play some BW. Because people seem to think being a BW vet is cool, so they keep on saying "reaver, lurker, arbiter, vulture," and finding problems with SC2 that don't exist.
Not really. I am a designer and the Colossus is fundamentally boring. I say this objectively. I loved the reaver. I don't care if they don't add more BW units into SC2. I DO care if boring or bad units stay in SC2. You can't keep adding units without diluting racial diversity and excitement.
The Colossus should be replaced with a robo splash unit for the following reasons:
It looks silly and unrealistic. It is too pointy and too zergy.
It's attack visually obstructs the battlefield.
It's attack is not exciting enough.
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Blizzard's such a nub. They wasted all their chronoboosts on terran and zerg teasers and don't have any left...
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On October 18 2011 09:41 castled wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 09:35 Mash2 wrote:On October 18 2011 09:28 castled wrote:
please let it be robotics, and have the colossus go away forever...
I can't see them actually just adding the reaver, but a unit that functions like one would be great for the game. Maybe a Dark-Reaver? There currently aren't any dark units from the robotics right? That would be cool.
I hope you realize that a Reaver, or anything with the splash damage even near what a reaver had, would aboslutely wreck bioballs on a level way above that of the collosus. It wasn't an issue in brood war because you couldn't have as many units as you wanted in one control group - so it didn't create the clumped up "balls" that we see in SC2. In SC2, you can have as many units as you want in a control group, and thus, the "balls" are created. Be careful what you wish for... Yeah, I know if they literally just dropped in the BW unit it would be imba. I'm assuming they'll balance it to the new game. Just agreeing with others that a unit that functions sort of like a reaver could fill the role of the colossus and require more skill to use. It would be more interesting to watch and maybe open more harass opportunities for protoss as well.
But it wouldn't be a Reaver if it could not wreck the shit out of Bio. That was easily 70% of the purpose of it: to force the Terran to Mech.
What good is a 40-50 damage Reaver in SC2? It'd basically be a slow, long-ranged Immortal that does splash damage. It wouldn't have any of the overall power of the original, and however microable it may be, it wouldn't be very strong as STs can ward them off easily. It simply wouldn't have the same power if it were balanced for SC2.
It would be a Colossus that you needed to bring a Warp Prism along to make useful. And that's basically a big, fat nerf to the Protoss: taking out a simple unit to put in one that does the same thing, but takes 3x the APM to get the same effect.
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On October 18 2011 09:50 0neder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 09:44 ampson wrote:On October 18 2011 09:38 Warpish wrote:
I don't understand why so many people are hating the collosus. I don't want units removed, i want more units therefore more possibilities. If I'm missing the Reaver too much i can always play some BW. Because people seem to think being a BW vet is cool, so they keep on saying "reaver, lurker, arbiter, vulture," and finding problems with SC2 that don't exist. Not really. I am a designer and the Colossus is fundamentally boring. I say this objectively. I loved the reaver. I don't care if they don't add more BW units into SC2. I DO care if boring or bad units stay in SC2. You can't keep adding units without diluting racial diversity and excitement.
The colossus should at least be tweaked to make it more interesting or fill a niche roll. As it is they're just hunkering DPsers that have forced hard counters in the game that otherwise kind of blow as units.
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On October 18 2011 09:51 0neder wrote:
Blizzard's such a nub. They wasted all their chronoboosts on terran and zerg teasers and don't have any left...
Blizzard supply blocked? :O
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On October 18 2011 09:46 features wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 09:40 FarFetchD wrote:
I hope there will be a new building, like the factory for terran. so u dont have to go gateway cyber core every single game. U need to build tha gateway but then u can go the other building. One of the new units has to be a "drive-by" unit like the zerglings and hellion Its called a chargelot.... If you have 6-10 gateways and a warp prism/ proxy pylon and you see the enemy army move out I assure you there is no easier unit for demolishing a base than the zealot. Hatchery sniping with a bunch of chargelots is a geat new way to play.
yeah but the thing is that getting the charge and the zelot is expensive comperd to geting some lings or som hellions that demolish a mineral line pretty quick. Sure if u whant to snipe some building i think 2 immortals + a zelot warpin is pretty good if u retreat in time and save the immortals. Zelots i think is more of a core unit then hellions so suciding a cople of zelot for a bulding or 7-8 dronse/scv dosnt give u that mutch of an advantage imo.
But the chargelot is more "mid/late-game" unit. I whant a early harass unit that u can move in and out of the base quick.
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On October 18 2011 09:53 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 09:51 0neder wrote:
Blizzard's such a nub. They wasted all their chronoboosts on terran and zerg teasers and don't have any left... Blizzard supply blocked? :O
no.. i'm pretty sure they just rallied their workers BESIDE the mineral patch
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On October 18 2011 09:52 RogerChillingworth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 09:50 0neder wrote:On October 18 2011 09:44 ampson wrote:On October 18 2011 09:38 Warpish wrote:
I don't understand why so many people are hating the collosus. I don't want units removed, i want more units therefore more possibilities. If I'm missing the Reaver too much i can always play some BW. Because people seem to think being a BW vet is cool, so they keep on saying "reaver, lurker, arbiter, vulture," and finding problems with SC2 that don't exist. Not really. I am a designer and the Colossus is fundamentally boring. I say this objectively. I loved the reaver. I don't care if they don't add more BW units into SC2. I DO care if boring or bad units stay in SC2. You can't keep adding units without diluting racial diversity and excitement. The colossus should at least be tweaked to make it more interesting or fill a niche roll. As it is they're just hunkering DPsers that have forced hard counters in the game that otherwise kind of blow as units.
but tweaking colo will make it so gateway units have to be tweaked, since they are so terrible against their roach-ling / marine-marauder counterparts. Not sure how they can change just the colo.
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On October 18 2011 09:50 0neder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 09:44 ampson wrote:On October 18 2011 09:38 Warpish wrote:
I don't understand why so many people are hating the collosus. I don't want units removed, i want more units therefore more possibilities. If I'm missing the Reaver too much i can always play some BW. Because people seem to think being a BW vet is cool, so they keep on saying "reaver, lurker, arbiter, vulture," and finding problems with SC2 that don't exist. Not really. I am a designer and the Colossus is fundamentally boring. I say this objectively. I loved the reaver. I don't care if they don't add more BW units into SC2. I DO care if boring or bad units stay in SC2. You can't keep adding units without diluting racial diversity and excitement. The Colossus should be replaced with a robo splash unit for the following reasons: It looks silly and unrealistic. It is too pointy and too zergy. It's attack visually obstructs the battlefield. It's attack is not exciting enough.
I don't think you know what that word means
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If it was the Reaver, you could keep the high colossus supply/cost to balance it out
Or you could reduce supply/cost to be like BW and nerf damage accordingly
Or you could nerf damage but maintain a huge AoE
Or you could buff damage a ton but still have smaller AoE
Or you could make the Reaver cliff walk (just for fun)
Or you could make it one shot marauders so mech TvP comes back
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air unit.. lame
hope disruption web
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On October 18 2011 09:51 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 09:41 castled wrote:On October 18 2011 09:35 Mash2 wrote:On October 18 2011 09:28 castled wrote:
please let it be robotics, and have the colossus go away forever...
I can't see them actually just adding the reaver, but a unit that functions like one would be great for the game. Maybe a Dark-Reaver? There currently aren't any dark units from the robotics right? That would be cool.
I hope you realize that a Reaver, or anything with the splash damage even near what a reaver had, would aboslutely wreck bioballs on a level way above that of the collosus. It wasn't an issue in brood war because you couldn't have as many units as you wanted in one control group - so it didn't create the clumped up "balls" that we see in SC2. In SC2, you can have as many units as you want in a control group, and thus, the "balls" are created. Be careful what you wish for... Yeah, I know if they literally just dropped in the BW unit it would be imba. I'm assuming they'll balance it to the new game. Just agreeing with others that a unit that functions sort of like a reaver could fill the role of the colossus and require more skill to use. It would be more interesting to watch and maybe open more harass opportunities for protoss as well. But it wouldn't be a Reaver if it could not wreck the shit out of Bio. That was easily 70% of the purpose of it: to force the Terran to Mech. What good is a 40-50 damage Reaver in SC2? It'd basically be a slow, long-ranged Immortal that does splash damage. It wouldn't have any of the overall power of the original, and however microable it may be, it wouldn't be very strong as STs can ward them off easily. It simply wouldn't have the same power if it were balanced for SC2. It would be a Colossus that you needed to bring a Warp Prism along to make useful. And that's basically a big, fat nerf to the Protoss: taking out a simple unit to put in one that does the same thing, but takes 3x the APM to get the same effect.
I definitely see what you're saying, but the fact is right now Terrans don't get STs in TvP (besides 111), because they're quite bad against most toss units. A nerfed version of the reaver would still force Terran to get STs and try to target the reavers down if they wanted to use bio. Maybe it could become something like the ghost/HT dynamic which I think is pretty interesting.
I just think without seeing the unit we can't say how well/poorly it would work in practice. But I think there's probably a way to balance it such that it creates a more interesting dynamic than "Do you have the right number of Vikings for you opponent's Collosi?"
e: damn it's just a stupid looking phoenix 
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On October 18 2011 09:59 MajorityofOne wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 09:50 0neder wrote:On October 18 2011 09:44 ampson wrote:On October 18 2011 09:38 Warpish wrote:
I don't understand why so many people are hating the collosus. I don't want units removed, i want more units therefore more possibilities. If I'm missing the Reaver too much i can always play some BW. Because people seem to think being a BW vet is cool, so they keep on saying "reaver, lurker, arbiter, vulture," and finding problems with SC2 that don't exist. Not really. I am a designer and the Colossus is fundamentally boring. I say this objectively. I loved the reaver. I don't care if they don't add more BW units into SC2. I DO care if boring or bad units stay in SC2. You can't keep adding units without diluting racial diversity and excitement. The Colossus should be replaced with a robo splash unit for the following reasons: It looks silly and unrealistic. It is too pointy and too zergy. It's attack visually obstructs the battlefield. It's attack is not exciting enough. I don't think you know what that word means
Actually I do. Every day I design products that I don't necessarily want. I design them for other people and their preferences. Designers are able to see things holistically and evaulate them on a practical level.
Can you refute any of the three points I made? Or just reply with one liners in the hopes that because they're concise, we will think you are correct?
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It's here!! and....here it is flying thing.
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collosi will stay in game
reaver will never come in
just bear with it
god
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On October 18 2011 10:02 0neder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 09:59 MajorityofOne wrote:On October 18 2011 09:50 0neder wrote:On October 18 2011 09:44 ampson wrote:On October 18 2011 09:38 Warpish wrote:
I don't understand why so many people are hating the collosus. I don't want units removed, i want more units therefore more possibilities. If I'm missing the Reaver too much i can always play some BW. Because people seem to think being a BW vet is cool, so they keep on saying "reaver, lurker, arbiter, vulture," and finding problems with SC2 that don't exist. Not really. I am a designer and the Colossus is fundamentally boring. I say this objectively. I loved the reaver. I don't care if they don't add more BW units into SC2. I DO care if boring or bad units stay in SC2. You can't keep adding units without diluting racial diversity and excitement. The Colossus should be replaced with a robo splash unit for the following reasons: It looks silly and unrealistic. It is too pointy and too zergy. It's attack visually obstructs the battlefield. It's attack is not exciting enough. I don't think you know what that word means Actually I do. Every day I design products that I don't necessarily want. I design them for other people and their preferences. Designers are able to see things holistically and evaulate them on a practical level. Can you refute any of the three points I made? Or just reply with one liners in the hopes that because they're concise, we will think you are correct?
"It looks silly and unrealistic. It is too pointy and too zergy." Subjective, opinion
"It's attack visually obstructs the battlefield." subjective, opinion
"It's attack is not exciting enough." subjective, opinion
These are all subjective, not objective, you did not use "objectively" correctly.
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Seriously why are people complaining about the Collosus? Its a bit too powerful in PvP but in the other matchups its the most unreliable unit in the game! Just over compensate with Viking or Corrupter and you'll breeze it, especially in TvP.
The Collosus is only really effective in a late game; haha guess what I have all of a sudden! 4 Collosus say bye bye to your army!
........But thats your own fucking fault for not scouting
Collosus is a rubbish unit, and as cool as it looks I wouldnt mind to see it removed or tweaked to the point of losing its legs, falling on its back, and shooting strange little blue balls like a big fat multiple amputee boss!
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OMG, they gave protoss the bat wing.
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EPT
