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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On October 08 2011 00:08 HwangjaeTerran wrote: Looking good IMO, the game would be nothing but coinflipping if it was just 50% So, Terran is not winning by large enough of a margin, is that what you're saying? The further away from 50%, the better? | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On October 08 2011 00:19 Daralii wrote: Damn, 13% difference in ZvP. That's... surprising, honestly. The 16% difference in ZvT is more surprising to me. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
It just comes down to not large enough sample and difference in skill of the players that play the games which are taken into consideration (like top foreigner protosses dont compete in enough foreign tourneys because they train in Korea) | ||
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Tercotta
Canada402 Posts
On October 08 2011 00:45 Geo.Rion wrote: how the hell is Protoss losing more since they got buffed like hell? That is flat out illogical. This just proves to me that this graph doesnt actually represent much, just an interesting piece of work, which shouldnt be given too much weight, if it would reflect balance it simply had to shift upwards for protoss in both mathcups because there's nothing else that could shift it(maps are roughly the same as 1-2 months ago) It just comes down to not large enough sample and difference in skill of the players that play the games which are taken into consideration (like top foreigner protosses dont compete in enough foreign tourneys because they train in Korea) I think a lot of it is the very very tiny sample size. | ||
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greyconnect
39 Posts
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On October 07 2011 23:43 dooge wrote: the map argument is reasonable and could be taken into account. the 'players of one race are better' argument is non-sense: you have to assume that every race has players of the same skill. otherwise balancing between different races becomes meaningless unless the mechanics of the races are virtually equivalent. Well if you're going to just assume things, you may as well assume that the game is balanced and all the win-rate discrepancies are due to (dozens of) other variables that affect the game outcome. Balance between different races the way most players see it IS a meaningless ideal, you'll never get 50-50s for a long period of time, you may as well give up if it bothers you that much. | ||
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koppik
United States676 Posts
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On October 08 2011 00:45 Geo.Rion wrote: how the hell is Protoss losing more since they got buffed like hell? That is flat out illogical. This just proves to me that this graph doesnt actually represent much, just an interesting piece of work, which shouldnt be given too much weight, if it would reflect balance it simply had to shift upwards for protoss in both mathcups because there's nothing else that could shift it(maps are roughly the same as 1-2 months ago) It just comes down to not large enough sample and difference in skill of the players that play the games which are taken into consideration (like top foreigner protosses dont compete in enough foreign tourneys because they train in Korea) ...This is a graph for all of SEPTEMBER. The patch was released on the 19th of September, after many GSL games had already been played, so it did not affect a lot of games. | ||
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ZorBa.G
Australia279 Posts
Protoss needs to get out of the 1 A deathball mode and try other shit. Zerg still have light years ahead yet to even get close to working out their race. With how greedy they play atm, I don't think this will happen for a while. Honestly, how many Terran BO threads do you see in the TL forums as opposed the Protoss builds and Zerg builds? Terrans not OP imo. Toss % Zerg just need some innovation! | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On October 08 2011 00:52 ZorBa.G wrote: Terran is just the "most worked out" race atm. Us Terrans keep playing to learn new BO's, tricks ect whilst Protoss and Zerg just come on the forums to QQ how OP Terran is............. wow, just wow, please tell me you're not serious about this and how can you speak about how figured out the races are when you play one, and you're probably pretty damn bad at that too. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On October 08 2011 00:45 Geo.Rion wrote: how the hell is Protoss losing more since they got buffed like hell? That is flat out illogical. This just proves to me that this graph doesnt actually represent much, just an interesting piece of work, which shouldnt be given too much weight, if it would reflect balance it simply had to shift upwards for protoss in both mathcups because there's nothing else that could shift it(maps are roughly the same as 1-2 months ago) It just comes down to not large enough sample and difference in skill of the players that play the games which are taken into consideration (like top foreigner protosses dont compete in enough foreign tourneys because they train in Korea) Protoss 'buffed like hell'? I wish  . | ||
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vizir
Finland154 Posts
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arsenic
United States163 Posts
It's been this way since the very beginning yet all we get are Bunker changes. Makes sense, right? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46129 Posts
On October 08 2011 00:08 HwangjaeTerran wrote: Looking good IMO, the game would be nothing but coinflipping if it was just 50% Um, the game would be balanced and truly based on personal skill if the races averaged a 50% win percentage against each other. I hope the patch helps, but I have a feeling that the infestor nerf is only gonna kill the Zergs... but I'm curious as to how the small Protoss buffs will play out. Still can't believe that nothing is really being done about Terran though. Ghosts, man x.x | ||
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ZaaaaaM
Netherlands1828 Posts
On October 07 2011 22:43 Whiplash wrote: I've talked with David Kim and he doesn't really keep up with the GSL too much. Mainly looking at the dudes who get crushed by 100+ other players sounds like blizz. | ||
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vizir
Finland154 Posts
On October 08 2011 00:52 ZorBa.G wrote: Terran is just the "most worked out" race atm. Us Terrans keep playing to learn new BO's, tricks ect whilst Protoss and Zerg just come on the forums to QQ how OP Terran is............. Protoss needs to get out of the 1 A deathball mode and try other shit. Zerg still have light years ahead yet to even get close to working out their race. With how greedy they play atm, I don't think this will happen for a while. Honestly, how many Terran BO threads do you see in the TL forums as opposed the Protoss builds and Zerg builds? Terrans not OP imo. Toss % Zerg just need some innovation! People like you should be cleaned away from TL. | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
On October 08 2011 00:52 ZorBa.G wrote: Haha, that's something like terran equivalent to Z and P whining. It made my day, thanks ZorBa.GTerran is just the "most worked out" race atm. Us Terrans keep playing to learn new BO's, tricks ect whilst Protoss and Zerg just come on the forums to QQ how OP Terran is............. Protoss needs to get out of the 1 A deathball mode and try other shit. Zerg still have light years ahead yet to even get close to working out their race. With how greedy they play atm, I don't think this will happen for a while. Honestly, how many Terran BO threads do you see in the TL forums as opposed the Protoss builds and Zerg builds? Terrans not OP imo. Toss % Zerg just need some innovation! BTW: I'm not statistician so. Wouldn't be much more accurate, if every player had some sort of rating. And the win/loss would have weight that depends on players rating difference? Now in many tournaments meets people, especially in early rounds, who are on different skill level. That's a lot of games, which don't tell us a thing about balance. High rating games should have higher weight too. | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
On October 08 2011 00:45 Geo.Rion wrote: how the hell is Protoss losing more since they got buffed like hell? That is flat out illogical. This just proves to me that this graph doesnt actually represent much, just an interesting piece of work, which shouldnt be given too much weight, if it would reflect balance it simply had to shift upwards for protoss in both mathcups because there's nothing else that could shift it(maps are roughly the same as 1-2 months ago) It just comes down to not large enough sample and difference in skill of the players that play the games which are taken into consideration (like top foreigner protosses dont compete in enough foreign tourneys because they train in Korea) Buffed? Where? I seriously hope you don't consider just a 1 range buff to one single unit, or 60 shields on another a huge buff. Blink research time got raised to another 30 seconds, protoss can no longer warp on ramps. Overall it seems to me like the patch did relatively little to protoss. A huge buff would be a +10% more damage across the board, this didn't even come close. I doubt the month of October will show any real difference regarding PvT, I do think that PvZ will actually look better because a lot of people freaked out when they saw the fungal nerfs + neural parasite nerf and think the infestor is bad now, which it clearly isn't. However once zerg figure out that the infestor nerf isn't the end of the world and that they are still just as efficient then the graph will continue its downward spiral for Protoss across the board. Anyway, the graph looks really depressing for Protoss, I may be terran but sign me in on the sad zealot fan club. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11086 Posts
Really surprised ZvT was that negative for the zergs. edit: Agreed. The buffs were minimal. Still didn't solve too much though another tweak might be enough to limp along until a redesign. | ||
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