[Poll] Best Foreigner? - Page 63

On October 05 2011 04:04 forgottendreams wrote:


Then there is only one way to resolve this, they must either fight or duel to the death. Not in game either, this must be resolved with a real life fight to the death between idra and thorzain.

On October 05 2011 04:15 mcc wrote:

Firstly, medium-long term results are the best way of determining quality of players. Your way based on "understanding" of the game is subjective and based purely on opinions as noone understands (and I think never will) the game on the level necessary to infer future results from the play of the players with any degree of certainty. The only objective way to determine quality of players is based on results.

Second, are you saying that ThorZain achieved his wins through cheese/gimmicks ? That is like the most ridiculous statement ever.

And even if I agreed with your assumptions my answer to your final question is ThorZain anyway.

EDIT: Also a note on your reply to Cyrak, you seem to think the way you think the game should be played is the best or the only way. That explains why you discount results as a measure and instead use subjective and vague "understanding of the game".

On October 05 2011 04:39 Hider wrote:


I agree that the way I analyze games is somewhat subjective, and it would require very long text through intense game analysis that thorzain doesn't have very good mechanics, and I am really not interested in using that much time.

What is medium-long term results? Results through 20 games? 30 games? 50 games? You still cant say anything about who the best player is by only looking at results, unelss one player has much much better results than his opponents. Variance can be too high, and the second problem is: How do you interpret these results. How do you value thorzains win compared to idra compared to huk with only looking at results? Unless you have some very advanced modificed ELO formula you cant to that objectively.

Btw I dont think thorzain is bad or gimmicky. I just think he is too slow, and i refuse to vote him as the best foreigner when he cant do a quick standard 3/2base tank/marine push against zerg.

On October 05 2011 05:27 FataLe wrote:

Because that's ladder.

Happy a few months back had a 93% winrate on ladder, yet was not considered the best, or top 5. This is due to results. People care about tournament results and achievements as it is worth far more. Not only this, it's far more accurate to judge a player on these things then just ladder. As some players don't even use it.

On October 05 2011 05:21 mcc wrote:

I never said that the results method that I intuitively try to use has enough precision to rate any two given players. For some players the only thing you can say is "tough to say who is better" and leave it at that. I think Idra Thorzain is one of those situations where you can actually say something. But for example Idra and Sheth not really.

Medium-long term means few months and more in the past (of course the results should be weighted based on their age).

Do you know he can't do the push, or that he does not want to do the push ? Again it is clear that you picked few elements of gameplay that you like and decreed that they are the only important ones.

On October 05 2011 09:03 Supamang wrote:
Who doesn't deserve to even be on that list?
+ Show Spoiler +

Wait how is Idra so high up on this list? I admit I dont follow about half of the players on the list so is he really that much worse than the rest?

On October 05 2011 10:20 forgottendreams wrote:


Relax, you do realize this poll was made right around the time idra was at an all time low losing in the first round of like 5 different tournaments.

Idra's only recently turned back on the heat within the past 2 weeks or so.