EPTStephanos Ladderrun - Page 56
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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Simonius
Germany98 Posts
On December 10 2011 03:32 Shiori wrote: I don't like Idra, no. I think he's overrated and childish. You don't have to be gimmicky to abuse particularly difficult things in the metagame right now. BL/infestor play is considered by most Protoss players to be virtually uncounterable outside of the mothership. This says a lot about the strength of the strategy. Nothing against Stephano for using it; I just don't think it's very original or a terribly good representation of stunning mechanics. The problem is it seems to be the only strategy that is able to beat a protoss in a macro game. Spinecrawler forests look stupid and noobish as hell but they seem to be the only effective mineral dump zerg has in late game so why not use them for example? Btw Stephano just got killed in a macro game on taldarim by a master toss who was able to catch like 20 broodlords in a vortex and finish them off instantly with like 3 or 4 archons. If his strategy seems gimmicky the protoss response is ten times as abusive. The game was instantly over after this btw. | ||
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TimeRunnerS
Denmark164 Posts
 rank 26. | ||
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m0ck
4194 Posts
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
On December 10 2011 03:44 m0ck wrote: Well, that's just opinion. And I believe he is the best. Who do you rank in that position? Who do I rank in the best position? Nobody. I do not feel compelled to rank something that is impossible to quantify. I would be able to name a "best foreigner" if and only if one emerges who wins multiple big tournaments at a consistent rate for over a year. Only then would there be something remotely close to an objective basis for "best foreigner" title. | ||
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WhurreOdu
Austria1739 Posts
On December 10 2011 03:49 Simonius wrote: The problem is it seems to be the only strategy that is able to beat a protoss in a macro game. Spinecrawler forests look stupid and noobish as hell but they seem to be the only effective mineral dump zerg has in late game so why not use them for example? Btw Stephano just got killed in a macro game on taldarim by a master toss who was able to catch like 20 broodlords in a vortex and finish them off instantly with like 3 or 4 archons. If his strategy seems gimmicky the protoss response is ten times as abusive. The game was instantly over after this btw. This masters Toss was Sage btw. | ||
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AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
On December 10 2011 03:50 m0ck wrote: I think it's about trusting your eyes. You get to see him play, in-eyes. How do you judge what you see? There's a lot of variance in tournament-results. Even if he gets 0-5 at the blizzard cup, I'll still rank him as the best foreigner. Seeing him play, he's fast, has great multi-tasking, decent makro, great control and is apparently able to come up with solutions to new problems on the fly. I can't say that I've seen any foreigner play that compares. And so I have to rank him as the best, because I have to trust my eyes. Yeah, some people are too dumb to make judgements for themselves "OMFG HE HASN'T BEATEN MVP OR NESTEA HE SUX". I can tell, from watching his stream how insanely good he is. Everything about his play is so fluent and polished, he's easily the most impressive zerg player i've watched. | ||
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Rombur
Belgium107 Posts
On December 10 2011 03:49 Simonius wrote: The problem is it seems to be the only strategy that is able to beat a protoss in a macro game. Spinecrawler forests look stupid and noobish as hell but they seem to be the only effective mineral dump zerg has in late game so why not use them for example? Btw Stephano just got killed in a macro game on taldarim by a master toss who was able to catch like 20 broodlords in a vortex and finish them off instantly with like 3 or 4 archons. If his strategy seems gimmicky the protoss response is ten times as abusive. The game was instantly over after this btw. Apparently that was Sage | ||
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Timerly
Germany511 Posts
On December 10 2011 03:44 Cyro wrote: He went to korea to train and plays 4 hours a day? According to Stephano he can't play much more in a single day, it exhausts him. I'd say he might actually be right, nobody can hold 100% for much more than that, training with 80% over 12h might have less of an effect in tournaments if you consider the fact that apart from open brackets no tournament makes you play more than a few series a day. He might be a proof of concept  | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
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Shiori
3815 Posts
I agree completely that Archon Toileting is stupid, and I'm a Protoss. Unfortunately, that number of BLs and Infestors literally can't be dealt with without Archon Toileting. If Blizzard wants to introduce a way to do it without MS, I think you'll find Tosses totally open to the idea. | ||
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Simonius
Germany98 Posts
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
On December 10 2011 03:51 AxionSteel wrote: Yeah, some people are too dumb to make judgements for themselves "OMFG HE HASN'T BEATEN MVP OR NESTEA HE SUX". I can tell, from watching his stream how insanely good he is. Everything about his play is so fluent and polished, he's easily the most impressive zerg player i've watched. I wouldn't describe it as "sum peepz jess b stoopid lulz". I'd describe it as: "Some people require objective evidence upon which they can judge and determine who is the best -- or most successful in achieving meaningful wins at the highest level -- player. The rationale is that if indeed this subjectivity you describe (re: "fluent and polished") implies that he is the best, eventually his meaningful win rate will correlate. If not, then your logic is flawed, and the uniqueness of his play in fact does not translate to overall success where it counts. Being a player that *looks/feels so good* means nothing if there are no meaningful wins behind it in the long-term, overall scheme of things. | ||
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KainiT
Austria392 Posts
I think he plays much more than that. He just doesnt stream all of it. I also think that he spends quite some time learning theory. Furthermore I guess you have to do some administrational stuff if you just arrived in south korea... @ All those people feeling the need to always repeat "stephano sucks/ is just overhyped/ ladder doesnt count..." 1. You dont have to meausure his skills with ladder if you dont want to since he already has won 3 very(!!) big events: IPL3 ESWC IPL 4 UK Qualifiers(For those people who watched mlg orlando instead: this was a tournament with Tails, Ryung, Demuslim, and many more) So even if you dont count ladder at all you got to see him as the best foreigner atm. If you now want to say that HUK, Idra is better cause Stephano didnt win mlg anaheim you are just being ridicilous since both huk and idra go out in the first rounds of tournaments all the time and if Stephano is not making it to the finals of some tourney everybody says he's overhyped :/ And the most important reason why so many people like him so much is just his personality. For example today after his last game, which he lost cause sage got all his broods into a vortex and then splash-damaged-killed them, he just said "very bad split from me". I could give you countless examples for that. But I guess all those things don't count for you cause you just want to cheer for some guy like Idra who would have said in the same situation "f*** mothership/toss/balance, this is ridicilous, everything so bad" and gos out in the first rounds of half the tourneys he attends. But yeah, I know this is just because he is so jetlagged, has so little time to practice etc etc. | ||
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m0ck
4194 Posts
On December 10 2011 03:56 Simonius wrote: Has Stephano mentioned if he plays custom games outside of his ladder practice? It seems utterly stupid to me to make a trip to korea in order to stream 4 hours of ladder practice daily? He seems to have played no ladder games at all on dreAm's account though. Anyone care to elaborate? I presume so, he's streaming from something like midnight and 'till 3 am, KST. | ||
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HappyChris
1534 Posts
On December 10 2011 03:42 FallDownMarigold wrote: Err... Just stop it. He's a pretty good foreign player, that's all there is to it. 'Nuff said. He's not the best, not the worst -- he's just pretty good and we'll leave it at that. I'm not sure how so many people are rationalizing so many big claims based off ladder performance over a short time frame. LOL Not the best lol you kidding me. No foreigner has got so many huge major lan tournament wins in the last 2 months. No foriegner has done what Stephano is doijng to the korean GM league. Just to compare idra is like 50 wins 45 loses in masters. Stephano 85/32 in GM rank 26 after 6 days in korea. 73% win ratio there is only one other zerg in the entire world that got +70 win ratio on the korean GM league and thats dRG and then there is Stephano. Hole of Korea are talking about him. Every korrean pro wanna practise with him. Stephano is just not the best foreigner by a mile but one of the world best zergs and thats a fact!! | ||
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Awesomeness
Germany1361 Posts
On December 10 2011 03:50 FallDownMarigold wrote: Who do I rank in the best position? Nobody. I do not feel compelled to rank something that is impossible to quantify. I would be able to name a "best foreigner" if and only if one emerges who wins multiple big tournaments at a consistent rate for over a year. Only then would there be something remotely close to an objective basis for "best foreigner" title. Would you agree that Stephano is "one of the best" at least? Stephano has better stats than any other foreigner ever had on KR and got high up in the rankings really, really fast. People get excited about stuff like that, why shouldn't they? And it's not like Stephano hasn't been doing well in tournaments. So your argument is that there is no best foreigner player, so people shouldn't discuss that and wait until there is a guy who just crushes everybody for 1-2 years, which will probably never happen? | ||
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Simonius
Germany98 Posts
On December 10 2011 03:56 Shiori wrote: I agree completely that Archon Toileting is stupid, and I'm a Protoss. Unfortunately, that number of BLs and Infestors literally can't be dealt with without Archon Toileting. If Blizzard wants to introduce a way to do it without MS, I think you'll find Tosses totally open to the idea. Theoretically carriers are a very strong counter vs broodlord infestor spine crawler. The question is if some protoss is able to finde a proper transition. | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
On December 10 2011 03:58 HappyChris wrote: Not the best lol you kidding me. No foreigner has got so many huge major lan tournament wins in the last 2 months. No foriegner has done what Stephano is doijng to the korean GM league. Just to compare idra is like 50 wins 45 loses in masters. Stephano 85 32 after 6 days in korea. 73% win ratio there is only one other zerg in the entire world that got +70 win ratio on the korean GM league and thats dRG and then there is Stephano. Hole of Korea are talking about him. Every korrean pro wanna practise with him. Stephano is just not the best foreigner by a mile but one of the world best zergs and thats a fact!! Do you have any evidence of this? Sorry to sound rude, but thats a big deal if so. | ||
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Bromazepam
820 Posts
On December 10 2011 03:56 Simonius wrote: Has Stephano mentioned if he plays custom games outside of his ladder practice? It seems utterly stupid to me to make a trip to korea in order to stream 4 hours of ladder practice daily? He seems to have played no ladder games at all on dreAm's account though. Anyone care to elaborate? He plays when he's not streaming as well, since his rank is usually higher when he starts a new streaming day. The whole 4 hrs/day thing is old, old stuff. Also during the day he analyses all the replays from the laddering sessions. And for the record he's stated that he's not expecting good results at the Blizz Cup. However it appears he's enjoying his Korean life so hopefully he'll end up deciding to stay more than the one month planned. | ||
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