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Mapcraft: State of the Terrain is an educational map show hosted by Josh "prodiG" Folland and Jacqueline "Versailles" Geller. On MapCraft, prodiG will teach Versailles all aspects of competitive map creation from learning the basics of the Galaxy Editor to beta testing the map. The hosts will also interact with the viewers by taking questions, feedback and more throughout the show as well as periodically bring on guests to discuss any map-related topic.
Show will be streamed on ESV TV - Click here to go to ESV TV!
Josh "prodiG" Folland is a well known, top-tier SC2 map maker. As a part of the eSports Vision TV map making team, he has a complex understanding of what is needed to make effective maps designed for the highest level of play. prodiG is also one of the commentators for the ESV TV Korean Weekly which features maps from the ESV TV map pool and each month, the winner of the Korean Weekly's Monthly Final event receives a GSL Code A spot for the upcoming season and a cash prize. prodiG has been creating melee maps for SC2 since the Galaxy Editor was first released in Beta phase one around March 2010. His first map was Fighting Spirit, a port of the most professionally-played and televised map from SCBW. Since Fighting Spirit, prodiG has created over three dozen original SC2 map designs. Offline, prodiG is a marketing student in his first year of studies and a very active member in the local gaming community, covering events and producing content for EdmontonGamers.
Jacqueline "Versailles" Geller is an active SC2 community member. As a writer for the NVIDIA GeForce Pro/Am SC2 Tournament, compLexity Gaming, the NASL and the Apprentice Star League, she is well-versed in both community on-goings and the game itself. She started playing SC2 during the Beta but did not become active in competitive gaming until early 2011. Her first step into eSports was into the role of Art Director for the Handsome Nerd, and since then, she has continued to increase her involvement. The personal gaming blog she started in March 2010 gave her a portfolio to start getting SC2 writing jobs, the first of which was a Division 1 coverage writer for the first season of NASL. Versaillesit's is an advocate for both local and independent eSports initiatives. The vibrant SC2 community in her city is a big part of her life, and she thinks local initiatives are the key to growing eSports.
Both prodiG and Versailles are sick nerd ballers living in Edmonton, AB, Canada. They enjoy spending their free time at OverKlocked Gaming, a stunning gaming centre located in the heart of downtown and the filming location for MCSotT.
Maps are in integral part of the Starcraft game. New maps keep the game fresh and encourage the meta game to constantly evolve. In SCBW, tournament map pools stopped including Blizzard maps shortly after the first year of release. The landscape of the map scene is extraordinarily different in SC2. Major tournaments such as the North American Star League continue to use Blizzard ladder maps instead of community created maps, preferring the comfort of the outdated Metalopolis over the excitement of balanced Sungsu Crossing AE.
Maps are an important but rarely discussed part of the game itself, and the hosts hope that this show will encourage more map discussion within the SC2 community. With any luck, Metalopolis will be removed from major tournament map pools and the show will be deemed a success. The removal of Metalopolis and other ancient, garbage maps will allow prodiG to die happy, knowing he made a difference within the community and the SC2 meta game. Versailles hopes to master the dark art of map making and become both a map snob and the hottest only female to join a SC2 map making team.
The show will air primarily on Sunday afternoon with Thursday evenings as a backup. This thread as well as the TL calendar will show our start times. Each episode aims to be approximately two hours long (somtetimes less, sometimes more - we'll continue until we reach a good checkpoint to wrap the show up on)
MapCraft: State of the Terrain Episode 6 will be aired live on Sunday, Nov 13 11:15pm GMT (GMT+00:00) on ESV.TV!
After a HYPE weekend at Canada Cup, prodiG and Versailles are returning this weekend with another episode of MapCraft: State of the Terrain. On this episode, Versailles will continue to work on texturing of her map while prodiG and IronManSC from TPW discuss the results of the TL Map Contest and the IPL Map Contest.
+ Show Spoiler [Episode Five] +MapCraft: State of the Terrain Episode 5 will be aired live on Sunday, Oct 30 8:30am GMT (GMT+00:00) on ESV.TV!Comrades, we have failed! Metalopolis has been added to the Season 4 map pool. This weekend's episode will be busy! As I continue to work on my fire and ice map's terrain texture, prodiG and I will be discussing the recent SC2 map news: the HotS map mod changes and the Season 4 map pool. While I'm thrilled for the HotS map editor changes (custom doodads, what what!?), the new map pool makes me sad. Oh Blizzard: why must you toy with my emotions? Be prepared with your comments and questions as viewer interaction is welcomed and appreciated!
+ Show Spoiler [Episode Four] +MapCraft: State of the Terrain Episode 4 will be aired live on Sunday, Oct 23 6:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00) on ESV.TV!In episode 4, prodiG will be flying solo as Versailles is in Anaheim for Blizzcon (jelly). prodiG will analyze the changes that went into the latest version of his map, ESV Ithaca which is used in the Korean Weekly tournament and after special guest iGrok from Map of the Month will be joining him to discuss MotM itself, the judging process and more.
+ Show Spoiler [Episode Three] +MapCraft: State of the Terrain Episode 3 will be aired live on Sunday, Oct 16 6:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00) on ESV.TV!Pick a map, and take a close look at it. You'll notice there's a significant amount of attention that has been paid to the map's texture. This episode will continue with the finer details of map texture as I attempt to make the terrain look realistic. Questions, as always, are welcome! It will be live during MLG Orlando, but we are doing our best to have an episode each Sunday. The VOD will be available on ESV.TV, and prodiG is working on making the episodes available on Blip or YouTube.
+ Show Spoiler [Episode Two] +MapCraft: State of the Terrain Episode 2 will be aired live on Sunday, Oct 09 9:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) on ESV.TV!Episode two: Design updates based on feedback and an introduction to executing aesthetic concepts
+ Show Spoiler [Episode One] +Our first show is on Sunday, Oct 02 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) and will be aired on ESV.TVEpisode One: Concept analysis, Introduction to the editor and creating a rough draft of the terrain
To contact the hosts, follow them on Twitter @prodiGsc and @jacquelinesg. One of the focuses of the show is viewer interation, so we'll do our best to reply!
Big thanks to OverKlocked Gaming & Computers for being so accomodating to us and allowing us to stream the show from their venue and to ESV.TV for the support!
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Cool stuff, I know I'll be tuning in so I feel like less of an idiot when talking to the map team.
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I like playing on community maps and I've always wanted to make a map, but the editor is damn intimidating. I'll watch for sure.
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If I watch the show, will Versailles send me a postcard with one of her maps on it? ;P
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This is legit! I am really looking forward to become a map snob through this show.
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Hmm... maybe this is the right place to voice a question/idea for public map discussion:
Why are vision blockers not used on larger areas?
And I don't mean a ring around a XelNaga Tower or a straight line of vision block, but an area covered in brush/smoke. Think about marines on a jungle mission, where their range is negated. Think about sneak missions where complete squads try to avoid enemy contact with the help of scans/observers. Think about the battle for air superiority, which counts that much more for those jungle areas due to the vision given.
Just an element, that I hope will be picked up in the future.
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This is excellent! With community maps being used in NASL S3, there needs to be more for map-making in general! A community broadcast for discussing only maps is a tremendous way to bring us in the light.
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I have no idea about anything in the vast area that is map making, so I'm excited for this =D
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Baller idea for a podcastesq type show.
My only question is will you be able to release a mp3 format of it? I would love more sc2 podcasts happening. Maybe if you rely on the visuals to explain the more technical aspects of the editor, you could release the balance related talk as a podcast? I woul love to hear how mappers can manipulate maps to achive certain things in games.
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On September 22 2011 16:29 Thrombozyt wrote:
Hmm... maybe this is the right place to voice a question/idea for public map discussion:
Why are vision blockers not used on larger areas?
And I don't mean a ring around a XelNaga Tower or a straight line of vision block, but an area covered in brush/smoke. Think about marines on a jungle mission, where their range is negated. Think about sneak missions where complete squads try to avoid enemy contact with the help of scans/observers. Think about the battle for air superiority, which counts that much more for those jungle areas due to the vision given.
Just an element, that I hope will be picked up in the future.
EDIT: Read wrong  my apologies.
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Hey this is awesome! Definitely gonna check it out. I'm sure we've all opened the editor once and then closed it shortly there after. It goes really deep, very hard. But on the other side it is really fun to make a map idea a reality or realize it wasn't as brilliant as you had first imaged.
Looking forward to this!
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lol change the name! sc2 mapcraft is already awesome, but its nice to have something like this I guess
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This is a great idea! Long have I been afraid of the map editor due to the seeming complexity of it all. I gave it a small go during SCBW but again to no avail, especially considering how difficult things were without using the custom map editors!
I'd love to tune in but you'll be airing at 4am my time - I'll definitely be checking out the vods though!
Versailles clearly is the hottest female to join the map making team too - fyi.
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Awesome! Really looking forward to see this!
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On September 22 2011 17:08 CSN_Kaelaris wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 16:29 Thrombozyt wrote:
Hmm... maybe this is the right place to voice a question/idea for public map discussion:
Why are vision blockers not used on larger areas?
And I don't mean a ring around a XelNaga Tower or a straight line of vision block, but an area covered in brush/smoke. Think about marines on a jungle mission, where their range is negated. Think about sneak missions where complete squads try to avoid enemy contact with the help of scans/observers. Think about the battle for air superiority, which counts that much more for those jungle areas due to the vision given.
Just an element, that I hope will be picked up in the future. EDIT: Read wrong my apologies.
Now I wonder.. what did you read? And why did you apologize? 
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great jacq! looking forward to it
jacq and prodig fightinggggggggggggggg
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On September 22 2011 18:06 Thrombozyt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 17:08 CSN_Kaelaris wrote:On September 22 2011 16:29 Thrombozyt wrote:
Hmm... maybe this is the right place to voice a question/idea for public map discussion:
Why are vision blockers not used on larger areas?
And I don't mean a ring around a XelNaga Tower or a straight line of vision block, but an area covered in brush/smoke. Think about marines on a jungle mission, where their range is negated. Think about sneak missions where complete squads try to avoid enemy contact with the help of scans/observers. Think about the battle for air superiority, which counts that much more for those jungle areas due to the vision given.
Just an element, that I hope will be picked up in the future. EDIT: Read wrong my apologies. Now I wonder.. what did you read? And why did you apologize?
I read it as "larger maps" instead of "larger areas" haha xD
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Hello there you two, I am Mozared, one of the two hosts of Mapcraft.
Wait, what did he just say?
Allow me to explain; Mapcraft isn't the most original name, and there happens to already be a podcast about Sc2 Mapping about it, like burne pointed out. Now don't worry - I'm not here to pick a fight or complain about the name or such; I'm happy with any incentive that gets mapping or custom mapping known in the melee world. The reason our Mapcraft (an initiative hosted by sc2mapster.com, a SC2 custom mapping site) hasn't advertised here yet is because we've been busy setting it up and perfecting all the rough edges before we wanted to open up to more general public.
Our Mapcraft is a podcast that we host every sunday evening (EU time) where we get in higher-profile mappers with promising projects (example: DarkRevenant who made Mafia) and interview them. Once we get all our business sorted out straight, we also plan on advertising on TL; we'll advertise 'Sc2Streamster', which is our complete Stream - Mapcraft is just one of the three weekly casts we have.
That said, I welcome you to visit our website where you can also find the information thread about our stream. I came over here just to make you aware of our own project (which has been running for a couple of months now), and to keep you up to date. Good luck with your own Mapcraft, though
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On September 22 2011 20:47 Mozared wrote:Hello there you two, I am Mozared, one of the two hosts of Mapcraft. Wait, what did he just say? Allow me to explain; Mapcraft isn't the most original name, and there happens to already be a podcast about Sc2 Mapping about it, like burne pointed out. Now don't worry - I'm not here to pick a fight or complain about the name or such; I'm happy with any incentive that gets mapping or custom mapping known in the melee world. The reason our Mapcraft (an initiative hosted by sc2mapster.com, a SC2 custom mapping site) hasn't advertised here yet is because we've been busy setting it up and perfecting all the rough edges before we wanted to open up to more general public. Our Mapcraft is a podcast that we host every sunday evening (EU time) where we get in higher-profile mappers with promising projects (example: DarkRevenant who made Mafia) and interview them. Once we get all our business sorted out straight, we also plan on advertising on TL; we'll advertise 'Sc2Streamster', which is our complete Stream - Mapcraft is just one of the three weekly casts we have. That said, I welcome you to visit our website where you can also find the information thread about our stream. I came over here just to make you aware of our own project (which has been running for a couple of months now), and to keep you up to date. Good luck with your own Mapcraft, though
Hopefully with the "State of the Terrain"suffix, people will be able to distinguish the two easily. Our show will be focused on melee mapmaking as well.
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This seems really awesome :D!
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What a great idea! I hope the episodes will be archived.
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On September 23 2011 01:41 whatthefat wrote:
What a great idea! I hope the episodes will be archived.
They'll all be available on the VOD section of our TwitchTV page at esvtv.com and we are looking at uploading them to YouTube as well.
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Oh great! This is really a fresh new show. I will definatly tune in if I can get rid of le GF this day 
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Ah crap. I'm torn between inquiring about a map of Versailles and deciding that I don't want this account to be banned. *Sigh* It's a tough life, fighting my inner troll.
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lol @ above
Two people that are awesome doing something that needs to be done.
Looking forward to it.
GLHF
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Great idea! I will for sure check this one out.
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Someone should get the maker of Searing Crater to watch this.
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jacq is an awesome chick. shes super legit and not an attention grabber. total unsung hero of our community. Hope this really works out for the both of you, look forward to tuning in!
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On September 24 2011 06:20 Destro wrote:
jacq is an awesome chick. shes super legit and not an attention grabber. total unsung hero of our community. Hope this really works out for the both of you, look forward to tuning in!
I agree! Thanks for the support
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Anything that could make the iCCup, TPW and other great community made maps get used more is good in my book.
Will try to catch some of these episodes.
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I've always wanted to learn about mapmaking. Can't wait to tune in!
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Any chance you could make this a podcast? I love listening to these types of shows while I work. :D
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Awesome, I'm gonna be tuning in. I've wanted to learn the Galaxy Editor, but I just haven't had the time to fiddle with it.
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Oh well that's different. Sounds interesting. I'll be watching.
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Cool! I'll probably tune in to watch and pick up some tips on using the editor and making maps. Also, I don't know that I've ever heard or seen Jacqueline, but I do love her articles, so it'll be fun to hear her as well.
Great idea, guys! Good luck!
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Nice, will be tuning in for sure. Some pointers in the melee map making area could always be useful.
This won't go into triggers or data editing, will it? I guess "competitive map making" answers my question.
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Unique idea. Seems like it would be a good stream, but I'm out with my homies on Sundays. I'm doing... stuff in South Central. So, unfortunately, I won't be able to catch this. 
If you have an archive, I will definitely watch.
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Perfect timing for the competition. I never know prodig was so young. I'm jealous! Wicked map making man
edit: While I don't mind the title, I think "ProdiGees - How Funk Got Fresh" would have been a better, albeit cheesy, title.
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This will go a long way to encouraging more people to try out community created maps. Those who watch will start to have a psychological investment into the maps and the map makers. The more exposure the process is given the more receptive the community will be in playing on and supporting the tournament use of these maps.
If 1 percent, heck even 0.1%, of people who watch the show become interested in helping map makers test out their maps by playing on them then that'll be a huge boost to the movement. I really look forward to the show and to see the positive effects it has on tournament map pool selection.
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I played CS with this guy a month ago @ a local LAN. He team-naded our team while rushing banana.That being said.... I support SOTT !
Looking forward to watching ^^
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Wow 4 am for me I'll definitely make time to catch the vods. There's so much stuff coming out of the SC community these days but this sounds really unique.
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On September 29 2011 07:46 alokin wrote:
I played CS with this guy a month ago @ a local LAN. He team-naded our team while rushing banana.That being said.... I support SOTT !
Looking forward to watching ^^
Dude! I started cooking the grenade, walked around the corner and got awped. FML!
Then later on in mid I tried to whip it at CT spawn but it nailed a fucking tiny lightpost... worse game of my life LOL
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Will there be a sort of archives?
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On September 29 2011 19:47 Flossy wrote:
Will there be a sort of archives?
Considering that it's run on Justin.tv, there should be VODs autosaved after every episode.
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I read it as State of the Terran..
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On September 29 2011 23:40 Griznah wrote:
I read it as State of the Terran..
With the amount of balance talk that can potentially be taking place it's certainly possible that there are significant portions of episodes discussing how terran can exploit maps in certain matchups based on their current "state"
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Still no vod for this? I was looking forward to it T.T
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On September 22 2011 16:29 Thrombozyt wrote:
Hmm... maybe this is the right place to voice a question/idea for public map discussion:
Why are vision blockers not used on larger areas?
And I don't mean a ring around a XelNaga Tower or a straight line of vision block, but an area covered in brush/smoke. Think about marines on a jungle mission, where their range is negated. Think about sneak missions where complete squads try to avoid enemy contact with the help of scans/observers. Think about the battle for air superiority, which counts that much more for those jungle areas due to the vision given.
Just an element, that I hope will be picked up in the future.
firstly, the fog of war serves that purpose
secondly, unit vision is shared amongst all your units instead of just one, so when one marine gains vision past a vision blocker, so do the rest of your marines, so its kind of moot
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On October 01 2011 07:59 CaptainHaz wrote:
Still no vod for this? I was looking forward to it T.T
It hasn't aired yet....
Sunday, Oct 02 2:00pm EDT
It airs today in 3 hours and 20 minutes
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On October 02 2011 23:39 Inhumane wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 07:59 CaptainHaz wrote:
Still no vod for this? I was looking forward to it T.T It hasn't aired yet.... Sunday, Oct 02 2:00pm EDT It airs today in 3 hours and 20 minutes
Not sure what is wrong with me.
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This awesome show will start in few minutes! I recommend everyone to tune in
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Looks good! And yay they fixed the sound feedback!
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Phenomenal idea.
I agree with the OP, outdated imbalanced Metal < Balanced Sungsu (or any well thought out map for that matter).
Tournaments need to get it together with their map pool. However Blizzard has taken partial control of the competitive map pool with the Ladder system. By having standard ladder maps that professionals can easily que and practice on, they make it harder for tournaments to justify using non-ladder maps.
What needs to happen is tournaments need to start not giving a fuck and using community maps only. Once this becomes the precident, Blizzard will be hard pressed to not put better maps into their ladder pool. Once an iCCup (or w/e the new name is) map gets put into the official Blizzard ladder pool I will probably orgasm all over my keyboard, which will suck, but will be well worth it.
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Great show, loved that you guys had a solid amount of viewer interaction.
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Thank you Josh and Jacqueline for doing this. Lots of good questions and information. Was quite interesting for me as a silver/gold level player.
I will make sure to check in next time.
Also thanks to Ironmansc, Superouman (I like testbug :=) ), and the rest of the chat for nice questions.
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That was a fun show, it showed a part of the game process I never really considered just from playing. It makes me want to open up the editor for the first time and just play around and see what happens.
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Great first show, you packed in a ton of useful stuff there for new mappers. Definitely going to follow this.
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she's a cutie great idea for a show!
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On October 03 2011 08:50 darthfoley wrote:she's a cutie great idea for a show!
Thank you!
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Looks and sounds very like Ted Mosby, how odd
Really enjoyed this first ep, bring on the next!
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I've been interested in learning to make maps since forever so I was genuinely excited for this first episode, and I wasn't disappointed. Keep it up guys, can't wait for next episode!
Also, thanks for the shoutout. <3
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Will try to tune in, this is an aspect of SC2 I haven't fully tried out yet~
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On October 03 2011 15:34 StereoDVT wrote:
I've been interested in learning to make maps since forever so I was genuinely excited for this first episode, and I wasn't disappointed. Keep it up guys, can't wait for next episode!
Also, thanks for the shoutout. <3
dude wtf stop hyping a show when you do something for them :D
naahhh
nice show idea and great E01
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Shame I missed this, I was out at the time. Hopefully I can catch the next episode, and I should have no excuse, its on at a great time for me.
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Liked the vod although I think the show could be a little condensed because there was some downtime from time to time. Still good work!
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On October 03 2011 19:05 Shorty90 wrote:Liked the vod although I think the show could be a little condensed because there was some downtime from time to time. Still good work!
Yeah definitely, I've got a few ideas on how to decrease downtime and increase production value. I recently switched back to xsplit so I'm not 100% familiar with it but it's a really straight forward program so I'll have the micro side of things under control for our next episode.
As for the downtime, could you be more specific as to what you felt was superfluous? This is our first time running a show like this so any feedback is greatly appreciated
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I'm really liking the show you two.
The first episode was a good mix of education and map making and I'm excited to see you make the map all pretty looking!
I think that the show could be shorter though and maybe just focus on one or a few topics. For example, why vision blockers in the middle of the map are a good/bad thing. Maybe have a topic for beginner, intermediate, and advanced mappers in every episode. Just some thoughts.
Keep at it, the community could really use map education!
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Great first show guys, you did a fantastic job. prodiG you worry me because you look exactly like a dude I went to highschool with.
Obviously there were some teething issues with sound and whatnot, but those sorts of things are always to be expected first time. As mentioned above maybe breaking it down a little more would be good too - most people will have an attention span of about 45 minutes when it comes to watching shows unless there is some huge huge pull for them watching intently.
I've wanted to look at making maps (as mentioned in my previous post) so hopefully after some more education I can have a go! Great show guys
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I really liked your show, it's an interesting concept.
What I can give you as feedback is the following:
I really like the mix, ProdiG has the knowledge and Jacqueline does not, so as a viewer you can learn with her, that's great.
Splitscreen is always a plus. Yay, seeing faces!
What I'd like to see is pretty much the same as the two posts before said:
Shorter episodes, maybe around 1h.
Also I didn't like the fact that the chat kinda distracted you that much.
It's good that you read it sometimes and react to it, but it was strange listening to you and then you starled laughing to the chat without any explaining (btw. watched the VOD).
At last it would be great if you could incorporate questions as a block, so it becomes less random when questions are asked and answered.
Thank you for doing that show!
Keep it up!
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Got a chance to play the map last night, and so far it seems pretty solid. Obviously, It's gonna need to get played more than once, but the first impression was nice. I'll be playing it again soon and will post feedback as I come up with it.
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Thanks for the feedback everyone! We appreciate it and are hoping to improve as the show progresses. We'll be shortening the episode to about an hour or so for starters. Any and all additional feedback you can provide us with will be taken into consideration when planning future episodes.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xEOzX.jpg)
I'm thrilled to announce that my first map is now playable on the NA server! In order to help the show progress, I spent some time working on the Terrain layer so we have something more concrete to work with next episode. It's not perfect and needs work, but I'd love for you to test it and reply with your feedback. It will help determine the layout of the map and what direction we go next. The map is published as "FITestMap Versailles"
The concept for the map is an easy to secure natural with a hard to take third and an easy to secure fourth. This will encourage four base play by having players take both the third and fourth in rapid succession. I'd like feedback on the following as well as whatever else you'd like to comment on:
- size of main (dark gray)
- location of the gold base
- which direction do you expand after taking your forth
- the advantages and disadvantages you see for your race on this map
- your initial thoughts as a player
Play a handful of games on this map and let us know your thoughts. We'll be back for MapCraft: State of the Terrain on Sunday to continue working on the map! Thank you for your help.
GL HF.
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Terran flying first Command Center to gold base may be possible on this map ! ( Add rocks ? :D )
Can't test because i'm on EU but that's my first feeling about the map.
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On October 05 2011 05:12 NaeNo wrote:
Terran flying first Command Center to gold base may be possible on this map ! ( Add rocks ? :D )
Can't test because i'm on EU but that's my first feeling about the map.
I'll be testing it myself with some friends later, but it seems like the golds are both impossible to defend and to take for both players at different points in the game. Any race can siege the gold from their high ground main in mid-late game (mid for T, depends if P colo rushes or not, and late for Z), and the distance from the main to gold in early game would prevent units from defending it, so good scouting should shut it down immediately so I don't think rocks would be necessary (though even in GSL, hidden bases can go unscouted for a surprising amount of time so maybe not...).
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nice hehe
map looks really nice and i cant see any horrible abuse possibilities
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On October 05 2011 05:32 Emata wrote:
I'll be testing it myself with some friends later, but it seems like the golds are both impossible to defend and to take for both players at different points in the game. Any race can siege the gold from their high ground main in mid-late game (mid for T, depends if P colo rushes or not, and late for Z), and the distance from the main to gold in early game would prevent units from defending it, so good scouting should shut it down immediately so I don't think rocks would be necessary (though even in GSL, hidden bases can go unscouted for a surprising amount of time so maybe not...).
I was actually talking about flying the very first command center and the 6 scv, like MKP did against MC in some GSL game ( I don't renember which one ), but i think it's hard to defend, even early game because of high ground.
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Another thing. The reaper-ramp (Or whatever you guys call it) seems to be too close to the main ramp. No point of it being there if a stalker can shot it down from the same position it would be in normally.
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Lol I thought State of Terran in stead of Terrain. Lol obviously T is giving me nightmare.
Definitely going to watch this.
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Like the looks, but I can't test as I'm on EU only. Sorry.
Looking forward to episode 2.
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Thanks for the feedback on the show everyone. We'll be sure to take all of your suggestions into consideration.
The first episode ran a little longer than we had anticipated I think. In the future I hope to add a little more structure to the show to focus more heavily on smaller aspects, however completing an initial design is such a crucial milestone in map creation that there's really no way you can cheap out or ignore it.
Last night, Jacqueline streamed her completion of the rough draft version of her map. I think in the future we'll probably continue this sort of method as well, however these streams will be relatively impromptu.
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I love this show! good job, teaching us noobs to map.
On October 05 2011 05:12 NaeNo wrote:
Terran flying first Command Center to gold base may be possible on this map ! ( Add rocks ? :D )
Can't test because i'm on EU but that's my first feeling about the map.
A wild Dustin Browder appears!
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On October 05 2011 05:43 NaeNo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 05:32 Emata wrote:
I'll be testing it myself with some friends later, but it seems like the golds are both impossible to defend and to take for both players at different points in the game. Any race can siege the gold from their high ground main in mid-late game (mid for T, depends if P colo rushes or not, and late for Z), and the distance from the main to gold in early game would prevent units from defending it, so good scouting should shut it down immediately so I don't think rocks would be necessary (though even in GSL, hidden bases can go unscouted for a surprising amount of time so maybe not...). I was actually talking about flying the very first command center and the 6 scv, like MKP did against MC in some GSL game ( I don't renember which one ), but i think it's hard to defend, even early game because of high ground.
I don't think this should be a problem as it's a two player map, basically the enemy can realise he's at the gold base very fast. Aswell as the fact that the gold base is just horrendious in a defense point of view, so you'll basically be forced to follow it up with a bio all in. (At least a big part bio, you wont be able to defend that while teching.
Though maybe just that bio all in will be overpowered, but I personally don't think it'll be that way.
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Awesome, I'll definitely be checking this out!
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prodig, i love your maps, keep up the great work!
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OK, so I've had some time to play the map, and here is my feedback:
Overall I really like the design. The map size feels great. I think there are a lot of aspects to the map that can be used in interesting ways, such as the high ground behind the third (for harass), the high ground in front of the third (for hiding spotting overlords, etc...) and the line-of-sight blockers. I feel like the Gold bases should be swapped with the 5th base locations, because right now they feel too easy to get to and protect. If they were in the corner of the map, it feels a little easier for the opponent to harass. I haven't really decided on the main base size yet, but perhaps it is a tad too large. I built 12 gates, a robo, and 2 stargates, and still had some free space. It gave me no reason to build else where.
For expanding, let's say I'm in the 3 o'clock position: it makes sense to take my 5th in the bottom left corner, because that's the direction I've been expanding, but it feels better to expand to the top right because I seem farther from my opponent (especially via air), and therefore it is easier to defend. This may have to do with the gold placement.
Finally, I play as protoss, and blink play is amazing on this map! I've already mentioned the harass area behind the third; you can also blink directly into the opponents base at the gold and at the balcony. Excellent for harass. I haven't tested out colossus yet, but it makes sense that they would have similar advantages.
I haven't tested this personally, but it appears zerg would struggle on this map versus air. The short air distance to the third and fourth, combined with the many ledges, means they may get harassed to death. Again, untested, just an observation.
Hope this feedback is useful! I've enjoyed the show so far, keep up the good work!
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@prodiG Will you be putting this show on Itunes?
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So I watched the vod, and similar to other comments it felt a little long and sometimes unstructured. But it sounds like that fix is in the works so no big. The other comment I had was that I was trying to follow along in the map editor. For the most part I could keep up, but sometimes just barely. Some of the things went really quick (I can't think of what off the top of my head...) and I was trying to look through menus to figure out how you got to whatever screen you were at.
Maybe do a "basics of the map editor" type episode where you don't work on a map, but just do a throrough run through of all the things the map editor contains and some nuances? For example, show how to manually do something, then say what the hotkey is, then show the hotkey in action. The thing from the episode that comes to mind for me is the size slider for the brush.
As for the map. I I gave it a play. I don't think I'm qualified to comment on things like "gold placement" and "rush distance" etc etc etc buuuutt a few things I noticed that irked me:
1) Not enough space behind my main. Like... unusable space you know? So I can kind of scroll back a little and have my mineral patches centred instead of my CC.
2) The gold minerals... HARD TO CLICK ON!! Atleast spawning in the right position. They were hidden by the much higher terrain of the main. I had to scroll further upward than I wanted to to land MULES or set a rally etc etc etc.
3) Main is too big. I think trim it down a little. It just felt... endless. I mean, I sim citied the SHIT out of it and had a ton of room.
Thats all I can think of for now!
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Thanks again for the feedback. My goal was to teach only the hotkeys so people don't use slow useless menu options but I'll definitely keep that in mind.
MapCraft: State of the Terrain Episode 2 will be aired live on Sunday, Oct 09 9:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) on ESV.TV!
Sorry if the time doesn't work well for you. We have jobs and other commitments as well and we really can't pick a time that doesn't shaft someone - I will look at ways to get the VOD to Youtube or Blip.
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Jacq got caught up traffic and I got trapped doing some stuff at home so we're running a bit late! Show will be starting at 5:15 PM EST! Sorry for the delay~
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On today's episode of MapCraft: State of the Terrain, we polished the terrain level based on player feedback and started on the map's texture. If you missed today's episode, you can find theVOD on ESVtv.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5ZLWz.jpg)
As you can see, the map is starting to come together, but it's kind of a total mess. There is a tonne to work to do before I start adding the much loved creatures and doodads. The two major edits were the size reduction of the main and edits to the gold. All of the changes and techniques have been discussed in this week's episode so please watch the VOD if you're interested in the changes or learning the map making processes.
The map is still available for testing on the NA server! I'd be ever grateful if you tested the map and posted your feedback in the thread. Feedback from all players and leagues is welcome, so get your game on! To find the map, simply search for "FITestMap Versailles". Thank you in advance for your help in making the map great.
Next week's episode will be at our scheduled time of 11AM PST. We'll be heading to the Rose Bowl Rouge Lounge BarCraft event after so be sure to join us if you're from the Edmonton area. Before then, I will be working on the map's texture and will tweet (@jacquelinesg) if I'm streaming the map making!
GL HF.
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Your map is looking better now! EU PLZZZZ =D Gonna check out the VOD cause I missed it live because of IPL/Devastation =/
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Anyway you could get the VODS on some other site? Apparently jtv vods hate me. It constantly stops before the show is over and does all kinds of weird crap. Really wanna check this out.
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On October 06 2011 09:23 Octanepro wrote:
@prodiG Will you be putting this show on Itunes?
On October 11 2011 03:20 Engore wrote:
Anyway you could get the VODS on some other site? Apparently jtv vods hate me. It constantly stops before the show is over and does all kinds of weird crap. Really wanna check this out.
Seems like there's a lot of demand to get the show up elsewhere besides Twitch.TV. I'll do some research over the course of the next week and see what my options are like as far as publishing on other websites either directly from Twitch.TV or saving the VOD and re-uploading it. As far as future episodes are concerned, I'll definitely have a file ready to upload to all of the aforementioned platforms to maximize accessibility
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Overall this map has some really great concepts. I really like the "fire and ice" theme. The sound effects on the arctic side were very reminiscent of something I can't quite remember. (if that makes any sense, let me know, because i don't understand it myself) The concept of getting off your starting plateau by going back and wrapping around is really original. It led to lots of harassment shooting from above but thats how the game Should work. Also, I saw lots of potential for late game intrigue with the layout of later minerals, and some interesting possibilities for reapers to do some serious damage. However, I'm off reapers lately, as their build time is too long.
That said, I have one serious criticism, which is that on the fire side the map was too dark. I literally could not see where the ramp was and had to just wander around with the scv to figure out where to block with supply depots. Whichever player gets the fire side will be at a disadvantage to the ice side, which was also dark, but not debilitating.
I also have a minor complaint, which is that the rush distance seemed to be short. It might be better to put an obstacle or some sort of choke point in the middle to lengthen it. Right now, once you get off the plateaus, its a straight shot to the other side.
Lastly, a question: did you do something to the ai? I played two games and both times the ai did something strange, which was to run all the way back to home base after a failed attack on me. Usually the ai tries to slug it out with me but for these they wanted to run.
Keep it up and thanks for everything you do for e-sports!
TheEconomy
@mfbenson1
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Awesome show so far it has really helped me out a lot, and I must say prodiG looks more badass than I would have thought. The girl is cute too!
I don't know if you answer questions asked here, but I'll ask anyways. How come on islands, since you can't just put mineral blockers due to MULEs, why not put some small destructible debris with low hp instead? Sure terran would still have a bit of an advantage due to the ease with which terran can get starport units, but I wouldn't think it's that big of a deal.
P.S. Why do you hate metalopolis so much, besides the fact it's overplayed to death?
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Loved the show so far, but had a few questions which as a map designer you might be able to give thoughts on.
The early map pool contained horrible maps with small rush distances and impossible to take thirds, but there were also concepts that differentiated some of the maps and made a more immediate game. My examples would be:
- Scrap Station (Close air, long walk distance)
- Desert Oasis (Back to back bases)
- Jungle Basin (Side free base)
I liked some of the ways these mechanisms played out, but obviously the maps were horrible.
Obviously I'm aware of Paranoid Android in BW and Crevase (but with less resources)
So I guess my question is, what are your thoughts on these kind of maps and can they be balanced in Sc2, because personally I think the main and natural setup from Jungle Basin could be used for an amazing map if it was larger and more macro orientated.
Sorry if that was a bit long winded.
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MapCraft: State of the Terrain Episode 3 will be aired live on Sunday, Oct 16 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) on ESV.TV!
Pick a map, and take a close look at it. You'll notice there's a significant amount of attention that has been paid to the map's texture. This episode will continue with the finer details of map texture as I attempt to make the terrain look realistic. Questions, as always, are welcome!
It will be live during MLG Orlando, but we are doing our best to have an episode each Sunday. The VOD will be available on ESV.TV, and prodiG is working on making the episodes available on Blip or YouTube.
Feedback? Comments? Questions? Let us know!
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On October 15 2011 04:18 Versailles wrote:MapCraft: State of the Terrain Episode 3 will be aired live on Sunday, Oct 16 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) on ESV.TV!Pick a map, and take a close look at it. You'll notice there's a significant amount of attention that has been paid to the map's texture. This episode will continue with the finer details of map texture as I attempt to make the terrain look realistic. Questions, as always, are welcome! It will be live during MLG Orlando, but we are doing our best to have an episode each Sunday. The VOD will be available on ESV.TV, and prodiG is working on making the episodes available on Blip or YouTube. Feedback? Comments? Questions? Let us know!
I can't wait!
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On October 15 2011 15:24 Amlitzer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 04:18 Versailles wrote:MapCraft: State of the Terrain Episode 3 will be aired live on Sunday, Oct 16 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) on ESV.TV!Pick a map, and take a close look at it. You'll notice there's a significant amount of attention that has been paid to the map's texture. This episode will continue with the finer details of map texture as I attempt to make the terrain look realistic. Questions, as always, are welcome! It will be live during MLG Orlando, but we are doing our best to have an episode each Sunday. The VOD will be available on ESV.TV, and prodiG is working on making the episodes available on Blip or YouTube. Feedback? Comments? Questions? Let us know! I can't wait!
An epic fail Sunday morning has resulted us once again getting to the venue a little later than expected.
Episode 3 will be starting at 2:30PM EST (30min later than originally planned). We apologize once again for the delay and I recognize this is the second week in a row that this has happened. Sorry guys <3
EDIT 2: We waited until the end of Idra vs Boxer, Live now! www.esvtv.com
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Thanks to those of you who tuned into today's episode! For those of you who missed it, the VOD is available on ESV.TV! prodiG has "upload VODs to YouTube and/or Blip" on his to-do list so tweet at him (@prodiGsc) if you're getting salty because of the Twitch.tv-only VODs.
Next week, I will be in California for BlizzCon. As per our deal in Episode 3, I will give you a hug if you tell me that 'Metalopolis is killing eSports' if you see me in Anaheim. That being said, there will be an episode of MapCraft: State of the Terrain on Sunday, October 23, 2011. prodiG will be hosting solo so leave a reply if there's something specific you'd like to see from him next episode.
If you're interested in learning more about map texture, I may be streaming from OverKlocked tomorrow night as I continue to work on my map. It's not thrilling, but I'll put on a fun playlist. Broadway musicals, perhaps? I'll tweet (@jacquelinesg) if I do end up streaming.
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Awesome episodes so far, but what happens when you guys finish this map? Are you just going to start on another one or something, or is this a one thing type of deal?
Anyways, I got some suggestions you guys should cover.
1. Race specific race restrictions/considerations; such as making sure units on cliffs overlooking expansions can be hit by the roaches 4 attack range, places to put your overlord, considerations with void ray charging, and ect.
2. When to tell you have overdone it on the texturing or placing of doodads. Speaking of texturing, can you demonstrate how to properly use man made texture like tiles, such as metalopolis is done?
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wuhaaaaaaaaaaaa~ I never updated the thread!!
MapCraft: State of the Terrain Episode 4 will be aired live on Sunday, Oct 23 6:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00) on ESV.TV!
In episode 4, prodiG will be flying solo as Versailles is in Anaheim for Blizzcon (jelly). prodiG will analyze the changes that went into the latest version of his map, ESV Ithaca which is used in the Korean Weekly tournament and after special guest iGrok from Map of the Month will be joining him to discuss MotM itself, the judging process and more.
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I can't find the VOD of ep.3 on the ESV twitch site anymore.
Forgot about the show after ep.1 and want to catch up on it. Anyone have a working link?
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Very cool!
I have added them to my to watch list, hopefully I will finish the map I started on a year ago.
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On October 24 2011 21:31 tofen wrote:
I can't find the VOD of ep.3 on the ESV twitch site anymore.
Forgot about the show after ep.1 and want to catch up on it. Anyone have a working link?
The link that I posted before was working, but now the VOD seems to be MIA. I messaged prodiG on Twitter so here's hoping he has an idea of where it could be found. It would be unfortunate if the episode were lost!
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I hope they deliver awesome tilesets/textures/doodadds for HotS mapmaking
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MapCraft: State of the Terrain Episode 5 will be aired live on Sunday, Oct 30 8:30am GMT (GMT+00:00) on ESV.TV!
Comrades, we have failed!
Metalopolis has been added to the Season 4 map pool.
This weekend's episode will be busy! As I continue to work on my fire and ice map's terrain texture, prodiG and I will be discussing the recent SC2 map news: the HotS map mod changes and the Season 4 map pool. While I'm thrilled for the HotS map editor changes (custom doodads, what what!?), the new map pool makes me sad. Oh Blizzard: why must you toy with my emotions? Be prepared with your comments and questions as viewer interaction is welcomed and appreciated!
Due to my work schedule, we will be airing the episode a touch late. For those of you who cannot join us on Sunday, the VOD will be available on ESV.TV immediately following the show.
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Trying to catch up on SotT VODS... crappy hotel internet is preventing me. Chop up teh vods? =)?
No? Ok.
Hopefully will be watching on sunday if I can get caught up on the vods. The show has inspired me to start my own map. The entire process is fun!
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Ohhh shit! Sup prodiG ? You are so awesome bro! I will def. be tuning into this, can't wait!
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So Metalopolis is back and obviously this is a terrible thing, what's worse is that the community seems almost ecstatic about it. I suppose what's most frustrating is that it's a hugely Z favored map and Blizz knows that.
Also Calm before the storm has been added to GSL. At first glance this map looks very Protoss friendly.
So my question is, doesn't having heavily race favored maps in a map pool essentially make whoever wins the first game the winner as they'll maybe lose the second game on their opponents favorite map, but then win the 3rd on their own fave map. Surely map designing any map to be heavily one race favored is poor design?
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Stream is live now for Ep. 5! www.esvtv.com
We should be starting shortly!
Just got a call from Versailles, she's stuck at work. We'll be starting in about an hour! (2:30 PM PST/5:30PM EST)
Sorry for the delay everyone. In the meantime, I'll do a pseudo-preshow and work on the finishing touches for my latest map. It won't be as educational but still interesting!
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There will be no episode of MapCraft: State of the Terrain on Sunday, November 6, because prodiG and I will be attending Canada Cup in Calgary, AB! It's a relatively short drive away, and the both of us jumped at the opportunity to attend a major eSports event with a minimal financial investment.
If you have missed any of our previous episodes, you can catch any of the VODs on ESVtv!
Comments? Questions? Let us know!
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MapCraft: State of the Terrain Episode 6 will be aired live on Sunday, Nov 13 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) on ESV.TV!
After a HYPE weekend at Canada Cup, prodiG and I are returning this weekend with another episode of MapCraft: State of the Terrain. On this episode, I will continue to work on the texture of my map while prodiG and a to be determined member of the ESV map team discuss the results of the TL Map Contest and the IPL Map Contest.
Questions? Comments? Leave a reply!
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DERP. Forgot to update the OP (it's up-to-date now). Skyrim has siphoned too much of my time and now I'm playing catchup at the last minute.
+ Show Spoiler +Skyrim is godlike. If you've been playing it, you'll understand.
Today we're going to have IronManSC from ThePlanetaryWorkshop on as a special guest to talk about IPL and TLMC. He submitted TPW Ohana, which is a finalist map in the TLMC.
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Have episode 5 VODS gone up yet? I can't seem to find them.
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Looks awesome, I'm so shit at making maps, will be good to learn something.
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On November 14 2011 07:54 dinosrwar wrote:
Have episode 5 VODS gone up yet? I can't seem to find them.
They WERE up but Twitch.TV VODs keep exploding for some reason, I'm going to try to figure out why this evening after the show.
I can see all of the VODs here but none of the links work :/
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Hey great show today! It was great to be a part of it. It looks like we barely squeezed it in on time I look forward to re-watching it on VOD and to your future shows!
EDIT: Vods work btw but not sure why there are 2 of the same episodes.
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Just searched this after readings the interview. I'm sure it'll be really interesting to watch.
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Anyone else not able to watch the episode 5/6 VODs?
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Yea I'm having trouble watching the VOD's as well, hope that they are able to get this fixed.
Thanks for making these episodes guys ^^.
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Are the vods fixed yet? I'd really like to see this get back in shape.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/s9J0X.jpg)
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