• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 18:41
CET 00:41
KST 08:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners2Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon!20$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship5[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage3Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win9
StarCraft 2
General
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon! RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage Practice Partners (Official) [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Career Paths and Skills for …
TrAiDoS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1348 users

PvZ mothership and carrier replay pack - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
October 04 2011 06:00 GMT
#61
On October 04 2011 09:30 Belha wrote:
Hey rsvp, what about a 1.4 replay update?? I'm sure the protoss will love the update in this mothership times


Heh sorry I don't have any new 1.4 replays since I've actually been working on other PvZ strats. But of course, this is much much stronger now than pre-1.4.
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
October 04 2011 16:53 GMT
#62
On October 04 2011 14:58 Anihc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2011 23:12 kcdc wrote:
Anihc, great replay pack. Thanks for the upload. I'm totally gonna copy your PvZ. Couple questions.

Your general build seems to go something like:

FE (usually FFE), scout for Z's 3rd at 5-6 min, if he's expanded, tech straight to colossi (or 6 gate), take quick third around the time that the first colossus pops, add second robo, then transition to carrier+archon while trying to cannon+nexus the map.

I couldn't get all of the replays to load, but that seemed to be the outline from what I saw.

What are your thoughts on the order for twilight council/templar archives/stargate/fleet beacon? Twilight council is needed for +2 weapons, but the archons seem to be the last addition to your deathball when you've finally got the 10 gas geysers to make the perfect all-gas composition. In the games I watched, those 4 tech structures along with +2 weapons seemed to be kind of jumbled in all at the same time. Do you worry about spending too much of your income on tech at this window?

Why 2 robo's? They came in handy when you got caught in bad positions and lost your core, but for the most part, you rarely used both at the same time, and often, they both sat idle as you tended to stop at ~6 colossi anyway. Do you feel like you need 2 robo's to boost your colossus count fast enough to defend your aggressive expansions? Or do you want the extra production capacity should you need to rebuild your colossus core quickly?

Do you think about applying pressure beyond the occasional zealot or DT drop, or is your plan more about grabbing bases and crafting the perfect 200/200 composition? Do you see any timings where you could apply direct pressure?

Blink and storm--are they worth it? Assuming you're going with the expand+defend strategy, when would you research them? I assume you'd only want at most 2 HT kept for storm, and the rest made into archons before engaging.

How thrilled are you about the infestor nerfs? NP seemed to be the only thing that gave you problems in the mid-game.


Order for twilight/archives/stargate/fleet beacon - yea I see that you could tell I was just randomly throwing up tech buildings in a lot of my games :p I'm glad that you mentioned worrying about spending too much of my income on tech at the same time, since actually this has become an issue for me recently - I've lost to several zergs who just quickly max on roach/infestor and then attack. For some reason in the past most zergs just wait for hive tech, which gives me enough time to get out carrier/mothership/etc. So now I think an important thing is to keep an eye on when they start their hive (i.e. obs in their main), because if they don't get hive there's no need to tech to fleet beacon. Stargate is still good though, since mixing in voids is always great. I guess order should be twilight (for +2), stargate, and then fleet beacon when you see hive, and finally templar archives when you're about to complete your death ball.

I originally went double robo because one of my other favorite openings is a fast +1 6 gate, and I'd follow that up with double robo colo since your robo comes late and I feel the need to catch up on colo count. But I guess if you go fast robo/colo, there's really no need for the double robo. I'd recommend a faster stargate instead and adding in voids earlier rather than a 2nd robo. Once you get to 4+ bases though a 2nd robo is always good.

There's really no way to apply pressure other than zealot/dt/drops. I've tried just maxing on gateway/colo and attacking, but if you tech/expand at the same time then your attack is too slow, and if you don't tech at all then you'll lose to hive tech.

Blink is always great to have. That's actually a weakness of my play, I know I often don't really utilize blink well. The question of storm vs archon - I've actually been leaning more towards storm recently. When I face good zergs who spread out their units and don't throw everything into vortex, then archons actually get killed by broodlords who are outside the vortex. Thus storm becomes much better for you to defend your carriers against corruptors.

Yea infestor nerfs + mothership buff makes this deathball style extremely strong now. Now really the only thing I'm scared of is mass corruptor/BL + fast remax.


I initially tried your double robo style and had a lot of trouble defending my 3rd or 4th bases. I think sticking to 1 robo would help, but I also think that in the replays I watched, you got away with some exploitable expos. Sticking on just 1 robo and cutting out the fleet beacon tech would help with having enough mid-game units to defend, but p00n's style where you go straight for mothership+archon seems so much easier to execute than colossus->third->archon->mothership/carrier. Colossi come out faster, but the mothership seems better for defending the third.
Velvet_Llama
Profile Joined September 2011
United States25 Posts
October 04 2011 18:23 GMT
#63
So glad to see this recent explosion (well maybe explosion is a bit too strong of a word) of mothership and carrier play. While I don't think Protoss was imbalanced or at an unfair disadvantage in comparison to the other races, it did feel like you were always pushed into a fairly narrow set of strategic options as a 'Toss player because they were so much more effective than other strategies. Doing anything else felt like putting yourself behind the proverbial eight ball. Beyond Protoss players, the emergence of new strategies is good for everyone. It just makes each matchup more interesting when you have to take into consideration new strategic options.

Plus the mothership is just freaking awesome so I'm glad people are finding ways to use it more effectively :p
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
23:00
WardiTV Mondays #58
CranKy Ducklings99
LiquipediaDiscussion
OSC
22:00
Masters Cup 150 Open Qual
davetesta37
Liquipedia
LAN Event
18:00
Day 3: Ursa 2v2, FFA
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech118
JuggernautJason95
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 523
Shuttle 460
NaDa 23
Counter-Strike
Foxcn199
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe110
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu459
Other Games
tarik_tv11884
shahzam447
FrodaN258
ToD181
Pyrionflax170
C9.Mang0153
Mew2King105
PPMD28
ViBE3
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL167
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 60
• musti20045 36
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki10
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2941
• Ler73
Other Games
• imaqtpie1374
• Scarra571
• Shiphtur152
Upcoming Events
OSC
12h 19m
LAN Event
15h 19m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 3h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 10h
LAN Event
1d 15h
IPSL
1d 18h
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
BSL 21
1d 20h
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs Sterling
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
Replay Cast
1d 23h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
[ Show More ]
LAN Event
2 days
IPSL
2 days
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
2 days
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.