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PvZ mothership and carrier replay pack - Page 4

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rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
October 04 2011 06:00 GMT
#61
On October 04 2011 09:30 Belha wrote:
Hey rsvp, what about a 1.4 replay update?? I'm sure the protoss will love the update in this mothership times


Heh sorry I don't have any new 1.4 replays since I've actually been working on other PvZ strats. But of course, this is much much stronger now than pre-1.4.
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
October 04 2011 16:53 GMT
#62
On October 04 2011 14:58 Anihc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2011 23:12 kcdc wrote:
Anihc, great replay pack. Thanks for the upload. I'm totally gonna copy your PvZ. Couple questions.

Your general build seems to go something like:

FE (usually FFE), scout for Z's 3rd at 5-6 min, if he's expanded, tech straight to colossi (or 6 gate), take quick third around the time that the first colossus pops, add second robo, then transition to carrier+archon while trying to cannon+nexus the map.

I couldn't get all of the replays to load, but that seemed to be the outline from what I saw.

What are your thoughts on the order for twilight council/templar archives/stargate/fleet beacon? Twilight council is needed for +2 weapons, but the archons seem to be the last addition to your deathball when you've finally got the 10 gas geysers to make the perfect all-gas composition. In the games I watched, those 4 tech structures along with +2 weapons seemed to be kind of jumbled in all at the same time. Do you worry about spending too much of your income on tech at this window?

Why 2 robo's? They came in handy when you got caught in bad positions and lost your core, but for the most part, you rarely used both at the same time, and often, they both sat idle as you tended to stop at ~6 colossi anyway. Do you feel like you need 2 robo's to boost your colossus count fast enough to defend your aggressive expansions? Or do you want the extra production capacity should you need to rebuild your colossus core quickly?

Do you think about applying pressure beyond the occasional zealot or DT drop, or is your plan more about grabbing bases and crafting the perfect 200/200 composition? Do you see any timings where you could apply direct pressure?

Blink and storm--are they worth it? Assuming you're going with the expand+defend strategy, when would you research them? I assume you'd only want at most 2 HT kept for storm, and the rest made into archons before engaging.

How thrilled are you about the infestor nerfs? NP seemed to be the only thing that gave you problems in the mid-game.


Order for twilight/archives/stargate/fleet beacon - yea I see that you could tell I was just randomly throwing up tech buildings in a lot of my games :p I'm glad that you mentioned worrying about spending too much of my income on tech at the same time, since actually this has become an issue for me recently - I've lost to several zergs who just quickly max on roach/infestor and then attack. For some reason in the past most zergs just wait for hive tech, which gives me enough time to get out carrier/mothership/etc. So now I think an important thing is to keep an eye on when they start their hive (i.e. obs in their main), because if they don't get hive there's no need to tech to fleet beacon. Stargate is still good though, since mixing in voids is always great. I guess order should be twilight (for +2), stargate, and then fleet beacon when you see hive, and finally templar archives when you're about to complete your death ball.

I originally went double robo because one of my other favorite openings is a fast +1 6 gate, and I'd follow that up with double robo colo since your robo comes late and I feel the need to catch up on colo count. But I guess if you go fast robo/colo, there's really no need for the double robo. I'd recommend a faster stargate instead and adding in voids earlier rather than a 2nd robo. Once you get to 4+ bases though a 2nd robo is always good.

There's really no way to apply pressure other than zealot/dt/drops. I've tried just maxing on gateway/colo and attacking, but if you tech/expand at the same time then your attack is too slow, and if you don't tech at all then you'll lose to hive tech.

Blink is always great to have. That's actually a weakness of my play, I know I often don't really utilize blink well. The question of storm vs archon - I've actually been leaning more towards storm recently. When I face good zergs who spread out their units and don't throw everything into vortex, then archons actually get killed by broodlords who are outside the vortex. Thus storm becomes much better for you to defend your carriers against corruptors.

Yea infestor nerfs + mothership buff makes this deathball style extremely strong now. Now really the only thing I'm scared of is mass corruptor/BL + fast remax.


I initially tried your double robo style and had a lot of trouble defending my 3rd or 4th bases. I think sticking to 1 robo would help, but I also think that in the replays I watched, you got away with some exploitable expos. Sticking on just 1 robo and cutting out the fleet beacon tech would help with having enough mid-game units to defend, but p00n's style where you go straight for mothership+archon seems so much easier to execute than colossus->third->archon->mothership/carrier. Colossi come out faster, but the mothership seems better for defending the third.
Velvet_Llama
Profile Joined September 2011
United States25 Posts
October 04 2011 18:23 GMT
#63
So glad to see this recent explosion (well maybe explosion is a bit too strong of a word) of mothership and carrier play. While I don't think Protoss was imbalanced or at an unfair disadvantage in comparison to the other races, it did feel like you were always pushed into a fairly narrow set of strategic options as a 'Toss player because they were so much more effective than other strategies. Doing anything else felt like putting yourself behind the proverbial eight ball. Beyond Protoss players, the emergence of new strategies is good for everyone. It just makes each matchup more interesting when you have to take into consideration new strategic options.

Plus the mothership is just freaking awesome so I'm glad people are finding ways to use it more effectively :p
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