• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:05
CEST 02:05
KST 09:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters5[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244
Community News
Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?85Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!42Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week6
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game SC4ALL: II Winner Will Earn a Spot at HSC 30! Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over September World Ranking: herO leads, Serral climbs
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly SC2 INu's Battles#20 [BO.9]
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This
Brood War
General
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group A [ASL22] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Brood War in Budapest ! WORTEX 2026 BW Finals
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV EVE Corporation [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
F* the Children and Get Off …
TrAiDoS
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Regacy Esports: The Bh…
regacyesports
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6936 users

PvZ mothership and carrier replay pack - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
October 04 2011 06:00 GMT
#61
On October 04 2011 09:30 Belha wrote:
Hey rsvp, what about a 1.4 replay update?? I'm sure the protoss will love the update in this mothership times


Heh sorry I don't have any new 1.4 replays since I've actually been working on other PvZ strats. But of course, this is much much stronger now than pre-1.4.
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
October 04 2011 16:53 GMT
#62
On October 04 2011 14:58 Anihc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2011 23:12 kcdc wrote:
Anihc, great replay pack. Thanks for the upload. I'm totally gonna copy your PvZ. Couple questions.

Your general build seems to go something like:

FE (usually FFE), scout for Z's 3rd at 5-6 min, if he's expanded, tech straight to colossi (or 6 gate), take quick third around the time that the first colossus pops, add second robo, then transition to carrier+archon while trying to cannon+nexus the map.

I couldn't get all of the replays to load, but that seemed to be the outline from what I saw.

What are your thoughts on the order for twilight council/templar archives/stargate/fleet beacon? Twilight council is needed for +2 weapons, but the archons seem to be the last addition to your deathball when you've finally got the 10 gas geysers to make the perfect all-gas composition. In the games I watched, those 4 tech structures along with +2 weapons seemed to be kind of jumbled in all at the same time. Do you worry about spending too much of your income on tech at this window?

Why 2 robo's? They came in handy when you got caught in bad positions and lost your core, but for the most part, you rarely used both at the same time, and often, they both sat idle as you tended to stop at ~6 colossi anyway. Do you feel like you need 2 robo's to boost your colossus count fast enough to defend your aggressive expansions? Or do you want the extra production capacity should you need to rebuild your colossus core quickly?

Do you think about applying pressure beyond the occasional zealot or DT drop, or is your plan more about grabbing bases and crafting the perfect 200/200 composition? Do you see any timings where you could apply direct pressure?

Blink and storm--are they worth it? Assuming you're going with the expand+defend strategy, when would you research them? I assume you'd only want at most 2 HT kept for storm, and the rest made into archons before engaging.

How thrilled are you about the infestor nerfs? NP seemed to be the only thing that gave you problems in the mid-game.


Order for twilight/archives/stargate/fleet beacon - yea I see that you could tell I was just randomly throwing up tech buildings in a lot of my games :p I'm glad that you mentioned worrying about spending too much of my income on tech at the same time, since actually this has become an issue for me recently - I've lost to several zergs who just quickly max on roach/infestor and then attack. For some reason in the past most zergs just wait for hive tech, which gives me enough time to get out carrier/mothership/etc. So now I think an important thing is to keep an eye on when they start their hive (i.e. obs in their main), because if they don't get hive there's no need to tech to fleet beacon. Stargate is still good though, since mixing in voids is always great. I guess order should be twilight (for +2), stargate, and then fleet beacon when you see hive, and finally templar archives when you're about to complete your death ball.

I originally went double robo because one of my other favorite openings is a fast +1 6 gate, and I'd follow that up with double robo colo since your robo comes late and I feel the need to catch up on colo count. But I guess if you go fast robo/colo, there's really no need for the double robo. I'd recommend a faster stargate instead and adding in voids earlier rather than a 2nd robo. Once you get to 4+ bases though a 2nd robo is always good.

There's really no way to apply pressure other than zealot/dt/drops. I've tried just maxing on gateway/colo and attacking, but if you tech/expand at the same time then your attack is too slow, and if you don't tech at all then you'll lose to hive tech.

Blink is always great to have. That's actually a weakness of my play, I know I often don't really utilize blink well. The question of storm vs archon - I've actually been leaning more towards storm recently. When I face good zergs who spread out their units and don't throw everything into vortex, then archons actually get killed by broodlords who are outside the vortex. Thus storm becomes much better for you to defend your carriers against corruptors.

Yea infestor nerfs + mothership buff makes this deathball style extremely strong now. Now really the only thing I'm scared of is mass corruptor/BL + fast remax.


I initially tried your double robo style and had a lot of trouble defending my 3rd or 4th bases. I think sticking to 1 robo would help, but I also think that in the replays I watched, you got away with some exploitable expos. Sticking on just 1 robo and cutting out the fleet beacon tech would help with having enough mid-game units to defend, but p00n's style where you go straight for mothership+archon seems so much easier to execute than colossus->third->archon->mothership/carrier. Colossi come out faster, but the mothership seems better for defending the third.
Velvet_Llama
Profile Joined September 2011
United States25 Posts
October 04 2011 18:23 GMT
#63
So glad to see this recent explosion (well maybe explosion is a bit too strong of a word) of mothership and carrier play. While I don't think Protoss was imbalanced or at an unfair disadvantage in comparison to the other races, it did feel like you were always pushed into a fairly narrow set of strategic options as a 'Toss player because they were so much more effective than other strategies. Doing anything else felt like putting yourself behind the proverbial eight ball. Beyond Protoss players, the emergence of new strategies is good for everyone. It just makes each matchup more interesting when you have to take into consideration new strategic options.

Plus the mothership is just freaking awesome so I'm glad people are finding ways to use it more effectively :p
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
00:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #20
CranKy Ducklings18
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
JuggernautJason92
ProTech47
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 11231
GuemChi 1409
Rain 1330
firebathero 76
TT1 53
Hm[arnc] 25
Yoon 8
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm172
febbydoto25
League of Legends
Doublelift5407
JimRising 567
Counter-Strike
minikerr28
Other Games
summit1g18421
Liquid`RaSZi2676
PiGStarcraft264
ROOTCatZ51
Maynarde23
ViBE23
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2248
BasetradeTV92
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta29
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP9
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21942
Other Games
• imaqtpie1415
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
9h 55m
Soma vs Shuttle
BeSt vs Rush
WardiTV Weekly
10h 55m
Monday Night Weeklies
15h 55m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 9h
Leta vs ggaemo
Jaedong vs Queen
GSL
1d 10h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 23h
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
[ Show More ]
Escore
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-02
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.