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PvZ mothership and carrier replay pack - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
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AirbladeOrange
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2573 Posts
September 20 2011 05:53 GMT
#21
Thanks for the reps! I like going air late game if I manage to get there but I, like others have said, usually go for void rays instead. I just never seem to have gas for carriers or a mothership. Also, I am always worried a mothership will get neural parasited. When the patch hits NA I might get in on the mothership fun more often.
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
September 20 2011 06:00 GMT
#22
On September 20 2011 14:37 Ownos wrote:
C'mon why not use one of the many dedicated replay upload sites. -_-

Anyway, I do, deep down inside, I am a closet carrier lover. I know that they have some issues, but once they are out they are pretty imba. It's really a matter of good timing and a good build and I don't think I have that. Only in my nub diamond league play can I get away with it because my opponents don't expect it and let me freely get them.

Still, just like the warp prism, I have my doubts of their usefulness. It's really just the enormous build time... 120s seriously why? And that FG will probably destroy any such "death ball".

Looks like my DLs done.


Because I'm uploading 14 replays and not 2 or 3?

Anyway hopefully after you watch those reps you will see that it's NOT a matter of good timing and a good build, most of those games I don't start the carriers/mothership until 20 minutes into the game. And I just laugh at FG, FG does nothing to a deathball that consists of 350-450 hp units.

kedinik
Profile Joined September 2010
United States352 Posts
September 20 2011 06:00 GMT
#23
On September 20 2011 14:53 AirbladeOrange wrote:
Thanks for the reps! I like going air late game if I manage to get there but I, like others have said, usually go for void rays instead. I just never seem to have gas for carriers or a mothership. Also, I am always worried a mothership will get neural parasited. When the patch hits NA I might get in on the mothership fun more often.


It's really hard to neural a mothership when it's surrounded by invisible carriers and colossi. Not too hard to prevent if you're spacing things well.
Tool_julian
Profile Joined June 2011
United States17 Posts
September 20 2011 06:01 GMT
#24
I have Always said that carriers/motherships were good ^^
I'm not a tool
Ansinjunger
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2451 Posts
September 20 2011 06:04 GMT
#25
On September 20 2011 12:47 Anihc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 12:17 JerKy wrote:
Yeah, I love going air in PvZ late game
Although I dont generally use carriers, its pretty standard to see 3 or more sg's from me late game pumping void rays
guess i'll try out carriers next time ^_^
(masters)


Fungal owns voids, even if you spread them out (ok so it takes 5 fungals to hit all your voids instead of just 1... but that doesn't matter when the zerg has 10+ infestors). That's why I go for carrier instead of voids.


I can certainly see carriers laughing at infested terrans in the same relatively small numbers that are lethal to voids. If the Z goes for the overwhelming infested terran numbers, I assume that limits fungals quite a bit and you can just back up. I also imagine carrier range makes it a lot tougher to NP them without getting the same infestor sniped by nearby carrier or colossus?

Since you're apparently rsvp iin the GSPA, I'll have to go watch those now that I have a "face" for the name ^^
EminentRising
Profile Joined April 2011
United States205 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-20 06:07:51
September 20 2011 06:07 GMT
#26
hes going mech and hes gonna stay gateway units..

edit wrong thread lol sry.
Momento mori
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-20 06:11:44
September 20 2011 06:09 GMT
#27
On September 20 2011 14:53 AirbladeOrange wrote:
Thanks for the reps! I like going air late game if I manage to get there but I, like others have said, usually go for void rays instead. I just never seem to have gas for carriers or a mothership. Also, I am always worried a mothership will get neural parasited. When the patch hits NA I might get in on the mothership fun more often.


Another thing you'll notice from those replays is that I never stop at 3 bases, I always try to get as many bases as possible. You always have extra minerals, so use it on mass cannons + expansions. Resources are not an issue when you're on 10 geysers.

Regarding NP, yes that is dangerous, you just have to have good mothership control. One thing that took me a while to figure out (and many painful losses) is that in order for your mothership to cast a spell, it can't be moving. So with it's ridiculously slow acceleration and consequent slow decceleration, it can oftentimes be an issue, especially when the common train of thought is to always keep the mothership moving as to avoid having to accelerate/decelerate. Fortunately the upcoming patch will help immensely with this. The good thing about NP vs vortex is that both are 9 range, but vortex has a nice radius to it (kinda like fungal or EMP vs feedback) so as long as your mothership isn't moving and you target a bit in front of the infestor, you'll get the vortex off before the NP hits.

The other thing is that mothership isn't actually a requirement for this deathball, although it helps immensely. Most of my earlier games focused on getting mothership + archons for an archon toilet, but then I realized that that is way too risky because of how easy it is to lose the entire game because you can't pull off the archon toilet (i.e. losing the mothership). My later games focused more so on building up the carrier fleet, and I found that to be much more safer. Carrier + colossus + HT/archon can deal with infestor/corruptor/BL by itself - carriers outrange everything, and if corruptors try to come in you can storm/use archons. This is another reason why carriers are preferable over void rays (range advantage) even though on their own void rays are better vs corruptors than carriers.
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
September 20 2011 06:15 GMT
#28
Oh man, I'm going to devour this replay pack when I get home. A quick question in the meantime - do you get air upgrades with this? And if so, do you also get ground upgrades?

Thanks for posting, I love Stargate, it gives me the Brood War feeling of Protoss back a little bit. xD
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
September 20 2011 06:30 GMT
#29
On September 20 2011 15:15 Talin wrote:
Oh man, I'm going to devour this replay pack when I get home. A quick question in the meantime - do you get air upgrades with this? And if so, do you also get ground upgrades?

Thanks for posting, I love Stargate, it gives me the Brood War feeling of Protoss back a little bit. xD


Air weapons are absolutely critical. I'm starting to get them earlier and earlier now - basically I start air weapons whenever I make the conscious decision to transition to air (such as when I get my stargate/fleet beacon or even before). Air armor is not as important though since your main worry is corruptors and armor won't help too much against their slow attack. Ground weapons are of course important as well, but since I don't make the air transition into fairly late into the game by the time I start air upgrades my ground weapons are already level 2-3.

I've also begun getting shield upgrades, which in theory is extremely good for my strategy - mass cannons, combination of air + ground including archons, and units with lots of shields that won't die and will have time to recharge shields.
shortsteve
Profile Joined May 2011
29 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-20 07:33:18
September 20 2011 07:27 GMT
#30
After watching some of the replays I can definitely see the strength of Mothership in late game. Although some games I felt you probably could've won without the Mothership while others you were ahead early, screwed up and the Mothership saved you. The Mothership really helps because zerg tend to have a lack of prevalent mobile detection. I wonder how the patch will change that since it makes overseers much easier to mass.

Thanks for the upload! I've been having issues with my PvZ lately and I think this replay pack definitely helped!
Ownos
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2147 Posts
September 20 2011 08:44 GMT
#31
On September 20 2011 15:00 Anihc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 14:37 Ownos wrote:
C'mon why not use one of the many dedicated replay upload sites. -_-

Anyway, I do, deep down inside, I am a closet carrier lover. I know that they have some issues, but once they are out they are pretty imba. It's really a matter of good timing and a good build and I don't think I have that. Only in my nub diamond league play can I get away with it because my opponents don't expect it and let me freely get them.

Still, just like the warp prism, I have my doubts of their usefulness. It's really just the enormous build time... 120s seriously why? And that FG will probably destroy any such "death ball".

Looks like my DLs done.


Because I'm uploading 14 replays and not 2 or 3?

Anyway hopefully after you watch those reps you will see that it's NOT a matter of good timing and a good build, most of those games I don't start the carriers/mothership until 20 minutes into the game. And I just laugh at FG, FG does nothing to a deathball that consists of 350-450 hp units.



Haha I just have nightmares of all my void rays dying to FG spam. Air unit clumping ahhhh.
...deeper and deeper into the bowels of El Diablo
sAfuRos
Profile Joined March 2009
United States743 Posts
September 20 2011 08:53 GMT
#32
Havent watched the reps but i'm a top protoss on the na ladder (or i was, don't ladder too much in the last month or so) and i'd been going lategame mothership + standard deathball (ht arch colossus stalk) and it has ridiculously good success. My favorite part about it is how well it deals with any baneling based builds. Keep and observer with your mothership ctrl group and keep yourself ready to target down any infestors that get too close; if he takes YOUR mothership and vortex's you, it sucks pretty hard.
sAfuRos // twitch.tv/sAfuRos // contact for coaching
azzu
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany141 Posts
September 20 2011 09:09 GMT
#33
Also the new patch reducing NP range to 7 will help this and other lategame strategies immensily.
Chaosvuistje
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands2581 Posts
September 20 2011 09:17 GMT
#34
I've been waiting for Protoss to start going Carrier-Voidray in lategame PvZ. It's just so good against anything if you manage to get to that stage be it via mass cannon creeping to your fourth and fifth base or transitioning into it. Muta's will get torn by the Carriers and corruptors are lol against voidrays. The only thing you can achieve is mass fungal and pray or possibly go mass sporecrawler queen. It's the most powerful Protoss composition I have faced that's for sure.
Ruscour
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
5233 Posts
September 20 2011 12:18 GMT
#35
Will definitely check this out soon, thanks rsvp.
Gladiator6
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden7024 Posts
September 20 2011 13:35 GMT
#36
Thank you for this contribution I feel at least in PvT now lategame nothing beats the ghost/mmm/marine+medivac/viking combination, I mean you need superior HT count for ghosts alone and good spread/concave and engagement. However I have tried all but stargate units so this replay is indeed needed, will be fun to watch Thank you very much
Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
September 20 2011 21:25 GMT
#37
On September 20 2011 22:35 eYeball wrote:
Thank you for this contribution I feel at least in PvT now lategame nothing beats the ghost/mmm/marine+medivac/viking combination, I mean you need superior HT count for ghosts alone and good spread/concave and engagement. However I have tried all but stargate units so this replay is indeed needed, will be fun to watch Thank you very much


Wait what? This is a PvZ rep pack :p Carriers don't work as well in PvT except vs mech...
Ownos
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2147 Posts
September 21 2011 03:42 GMT
#38
Just finished watching some of the replays. Didn't know the archon toilet still lives lol! It's not as potent as before but it's still there. I think some of your games on hinging on this alone since you're about to die and then... toilet!
...deeper and deeper into the bowels of El Diablo
Skipton
Profile Joined December 2010
United States707 Posts
September 22 2011 08:16 GMT
#39
Nice contribution. I really feel that Carrier / Mothership is sill the most underdeveloped portion of the game at the moment. Most Protoss don't even seem to consider using Carriers as an actual unit, and have yet to take into the idea of utilizing Recall in Mid to Late game scenarios as a harass leading into escape option. There needs to be more innovation at the moment for Protoss and i really feel that these units are so overlooked when weighing the options of how to transition into the mid to late game.
Rohan
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom83 Posts
September 22 2011 08:22 GMT
#40
Carrier/MotherShip/Void is something White-Ra has been playing around with on his stream lately too -- it seems, well, really pretty strong. He uses DTs to harrass various expansions later on too.

Downloading the replays now :D
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