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On September 20 2011 05:06 ElTiozo wrote:
from a french law website
Si vous êtes un salarié de nationalité française, la compétence sera donnée au tribunal français même si le contrat est conclu et exécuté à l'étranger.
rough translation : if you are french, a french court will rule, even if you signed a foreign contract
Link?
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Mill Manager said that the contract from Col is totaly not valable and they can't do anything about it
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On September 20 2011 05:06 danson wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 05:04 Koorb wrote:
BTW, Millenium's manager is saying on stream right now that he doesn't intend to send Stephano in international event more than he used to, and will focus on the french scene. yeah that booming french scene, where players grow and prosper.
Wait a moment this contradicts this statement in the OP:
Stephano will sign, as agreed a CDI(Contrat a duree indeterminee, ie: a contract of work with no expiration date) as a "Professional player," identical to those signed by professional sportsmen. He will travel across the world to attempt to win many tournaments, from Asia to the USA. We put our hopes
So what is right and wrong here?
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On September 20 2011 05:06 ElTiozo wrote:from a french law website Si vous êtes un salarié de nationalité française, la compétence sera donnée au tribunal français même si le contrat est conclu et exécuté à l'étranger.rough translation : if you are french, a french court will rule, even if you signed a foreign contract edit : oops someone was quicker  Anyway, this whole mess is kinda bad for Stephano (in term of image, looks like some immature kid)
The funny thing is... EVERY COUNTRY has this clause. US court could take action against the company, French courts could find them innocent, happens ALL THE TIME.
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United States23455 Posts
Also why would any team ever want to sign Stephano again after this?
Why would EG, TL, or any Korean team next year, even if Stephano is doing amazing, want to try and get him? In the end, there contract he signs is trash and can be thrown out in a 30 day window. Why waste your time with a player who doesn't respect a contract that he signs?
I hope Stephano likes Millenium because it will more than likely be his home for years and years to come.
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On September 20 2011 04:59 meRz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:54 Zocat wrote:On September 20 2011 04:46 meRz wrote:On September 20 2011 04:44 WoLFoU wrote:4) Yesterday Stephano contacted coL.CatZ and our COO Jason Bass to inform them he had made his final decision and told CatZ "Don't worry I won't change my mind again." He then executed a legally binding contract with our organization. He seemed genuinely excited to be a part of our organization and joined our private Skype channel to chat with the team before going to bed. This is not a signature but a verbal agreement. I do not think Col has received the signed contract from what I understand. So for me, Col made the announcement too early without having received the signed contract. Also in French law, there is a time to retract. Gogo Stephano! T,T "He then executed a legally binding contract with our organization."Also verbal agreements are binding, while hard to prove, they are still legally binding. Also French Law doesn't necessarily apply here. Can people please stop thinking its that simple. "He lives in France therefor French law > all". No, not in a situation like this. This is actually not really correct (I dont know French law, but I doubt you know it either). If I "agree/sign" a contract here in Germany over telephone/internet I can retract it in a certain timeframe (2 weeks iirc). Signing/agreeing to something verbally over skype would definitely fall under this. If they used a notary it's of course different. There's also the problem with the legal period of notice (sic?). Even if the contract is legal he can probably leave after a very short time (1month normally), doesnt matter what the contract says (again German law). Again that's my point, you are just reinforcing what I'm trying to say. I don't know French law, you don't know french law. You don't know whether French law applies here, nor do I. Just like you I'm merely using the limited education in international law i've had (as of yet..) and contractual law that holds true in Sweden, just like this guy is doing. The entire point is you don't know if you can apply french law on this and say "lol this doesn't hold up".
I can say with 100% that German law applies when I sign contracts with i.e. Blizzard (TOS, EULA) (a non German company). That means stuff which I sign has no legal consequences if that part of the contract is against German law.
That's why all the EULAS/TOS have a point of saying "Even if one of our points is illegal everything else in this contract still applies". Companies do know about different laws in different countries and ensure that the rest of the contract is still valid.
I honestly really doubt that French laws (who seem to be even more protective with their citizens, if this 1 month cancellation period is true, which multiple people mentioned) dont protect their citizens from foreign companies.
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Sounds like Stephano successfully trolled coL. This whole episode is ridiculous and annoying.
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On September 20 2011 05:08 DiaBoLuS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:51 Megiddosc wrote:
If what the coL site posted is true, then Stephano and Millennium lost a lot of fans. Despicable. I dont care what contract stuff happens, i like Stephano for his PLAY and his personality. why do such things affect ppl so much, i dont get it
People don't like dicks? Holy shit D:
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On September 20 2011 05:09 Deadfi5h wrote:
Mill Manager said that the contract from Col is totaly not valable and they can't do anything about it
That kind of attitude will not bring fans or sponsors to that team unfortunately.
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On September 20 2011 05:07 Grimberht wrote:
Complexity seem to love troubles... everytime you hear about their deal making (first Root and now this) it end up in drama.
Instead of trying to "steal" players, sue other teams and dismantle teams, basically acting like corporate predators. Complexity should direct there effort, time and money to making eSport grows into the mainstream where the real money is... it wil be better for everyone, including them.
I wont support Complexity in anyway anymore. I dont have nothing against their players, but for now, this sort of business is pretty bad and we dont need this kind of toxic behaviour while we try to grow a community.
Your post seems to come from complete ignorance. They are trying to practice good business while the people that they are dealing with are doing things like breaking contracts.
If anything this is good for esports because enforcing a contract with the proper legal action will set a precedent in esports showing that this IS serious business and these contracts are not a joke and in fact do carry the weight of the law.
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On September 20 2011 05:04 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 05:03 XRaDiiX wrote:On September 20 2011 04:58 Medrea wrote:On September 20 2011 04:55 XRaDiiX wrote:On September 20 2011 04:52 SnoLys wrote:On September 20 2011 04:34 gullberg wrote:On September 20 2011 04:33 Lunas wrote:
On stephano´s Stream they sayd no contract had been signed and Millinium made 1 last offer in the last minut and comlexity was to fast to anounce it Yeah and Stephano/his fans aren't biased at all. Who isn't? CoL will be biased to CoL, Mil will be biased to Mil, Stephano will be biased to Stephano. So far CoL has a history of contract "misfortunes", with Destiny, vvvTitan and now Stephano. So who to believe? Exactly my thoughts and people thought i was crazy for Calling CoL a sneaky snake when this is the 3rd time this 'Situation' has Happened with Complexity. Stephano was probably pressured into signing .. This is obviously apparent when Stephano so quickly changed his mind and/or didn't feel the contract was what he agreed to and/or was deceived by Complexity.  3rd times the charm I dont think you have any idea what you are talking about. Just take a break, cold shower, fap if necessary, then come back and see what happens. Stephano Changed his mind the next day... or soon after.. This probably means he was pressured into signing and if multiple people who posted here are right about French law then CoL. cannot sue Stephano and/or Millenium for Changing his mind because there is a 1 month grace period since the beginning of contract initiation. If he did indeed bind himself to a Contract. And if CoL wants to take Legal action against Millenium they have bad intentions in mind since Stephano probably never wanted to be on Team Complexity.. reason being he ended up choosing to stay with Millenium... I think you keep missing the part where he had 18 nights, 18 cold showers, 18 fap sessions to think it over. That is not what we call "pressured"
Totally Uncalled for 18 Fap Sessions? -_-  Not cool
This is Stephano's Choice he wants to stay with his French Team millenium Maybe he got scared and changed his mind because he would be Home Sick
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Can someone please post a trusted source online explaining French contract law in detail, because there is a lot of variance in people's claims about it. Alternatively, could a French lawyer (who can submit evidence of him being one) please explain who is in the right and who is in the wrong.
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On September 20 2011 05:07 Eduro wrote:Hopefully the contract had a choice of law clause... From wikipedia... Show nested quote +
A choice of law clause or proper law clause is a term of a contract in which the parties specify that any dispute arising under the contract shall be determined in accordance with the law of a particular jurisdiction.
Trust me on this, any company that is serious in what it's doing has this in their contracts. My mind would be BLOWN if complexity didn't have a clause regulating where disputes shall be settled. It's so standard.
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On September 20 2011 05:07 FaRess wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:59 Charger wrote:On September 20 2011 04:54 FaRess wrote:
Millenium manager just said on stream that the contract that Complexity did is missing a lot of things, and says that legally their contracts have no value (in France), he also talk about how complexity posted the news at 5 am (CEST), so they should have expected what is happening right now when you do those kind of things I highly doubt Complexity contracts are just flat out void in France BUT even if that's the case it's still incredibly shitty by Mill to act like this. Wasn't a huge fan of theirs to begin with and this is driving me toward actively cheering for them to do poorly. The manager was trying to say that because of all the missing points in the contract it has no value, and then he added, regarding the contract itself in France it has also no value. live report : he just said again that complexity contract is ridiculously badly written and they could be sued for that kind of contract. I'm just quoting what he says. I wish Stephano would have left this team and honored his contract with coL, millenium is a structure that is falling appart.
The manager better be able to offer up some evidence if he keeps making accusations like that.
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On September 20 2011 04:50 Legion710 wrote:
The guy is 17 years old. Give him a break. It is clearly his first involvement in such a big business deal and he shouldn't be considered a "bad person" for having no business experience. I'm not saying that whatever he did wrong should be ignored, but alot of people overreact.
By the way, I'm speaking to the community, not to actual parties involved, which are behaving appropriately in my opinion.
I'd agree that this has a lot more to do with Millenium being incredibly unprofessional, EGing a player who they didn't even have a contract with.
But.
Stephano is the reason this happened. If he had signed and stayed, there might have even been people taking Mill's side saying Steph was EGed by coL.
Since that was not the case, Stephano is the one at fault. He is making himself look bad for signing a contract and not honoring it (which will make future teams hesitant to sign him), and he is making Millennium look bad because they are condoning a player breaking the Law, and saying that coL is at fault.
It's incredibly apparent that Millennium is at fault, and I think emotionally, people could go so far as to call them scumbags for shitting on a real team that conducts itself through lawful acquisitions of players.
I saw a lot of pretty racist posts saying "oh France must not have as much honor as America". But to be honest, what kind of culture can you come from where this is acceptable. I'd love to see some french players step up and say they don't agree with the way Millennium is operating.
This is not about what country his team is headquartered in. It's about the legitimacy of his occupation, and the profession of all gamers and future gamers. That legitimacy is being called into question, and quite frankly, spat upon, by the underhanded dealings being done by a team that then slanders a professional organization that has been furthering e-Sports for almost a decade.
This is an insult to the community. And we will not stand for it.
All thoughts go out to Complexity. JLake, make Millennium pay.
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On September 20 2011 05:10 gullberg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 05:08 DiaBoLuS wrote:On September 20 2011 04:51 Megiddosc wrote:
If what the coL site posted is true, then Stephano and Millennium lost a lot of fans. Despicable. I dont care what contract stuff happens, i like Stephano for his PLAY and his personality. why do such things affect ppl so much, i dont get it People don't like dicks? Holy shit D:
Yeah, the SC2 community has no history at all of liking dicks.
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Austria511 Posts
As it seems everyone is to blame for this drama, yet there are no obvious facts to judge one party directly. Turning an "extremely generous" offer down by Stephano, who guaranteed to join col and made a signed and verbal contract plus was in contact with the col.players, I think he is mainly responsible for this absurdity.
It seems either the contract itself had flaws (as Destiny's) or Stephano got a better offer from Mil or simply wanted to represent France.
I hope this doesn't have to much impact on him, since he is an absurd good Zerg and I hope he will rock the boad at IPL and MLG.
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On September 20 2011 05:09 Koorb wrote:Lwl states he didn't even read coL's mail, and that he will direct them toward the nearest french court.
thats so terrible, absolutely unacceptable for professional sports.
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Fortunately everyone in this thread is a contract lawyer and can make determinations without ever seeing the contract in question
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On September 20 2011 05:07 FaRess wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:59 Charger wrote:On September 20 2011 04:54 FaRess wrote:
Millenium manager just said on stream that the contract that Complexity did is missing a lot of things, and says that legally their contracts have no value (in France), he also talk about how complexity posted the news at 5 am (CEST), so they should have expected what is happening right now when you do those kind of things I highly doubt Complexity contracts are just flat out void in France BUT even if that's the case it's still incredibly shitty by Mill to act like this. Wasn't a huge fan of theirs to begin with and this is driving me toward actively cheering for them to do poorly. The manager was trying to say that because of all the missing points in the contract it has no value, and then he added, regarding the contract itself in France it has also no value. live report : he just said again that complexity contract is ridiculously badly written and they could be sued for that kind of contract.
I'm just quoting what he says. I wish Stephano would have left this team and honored his contract with coL, millenium is a structure that is falling appart.
I find that hilarious.
Let's sue organizations that want to fly players all over the world, develop them and pay them a decent salary. Millenium losing all credibility and respect right there; do something wrong, get one of your former players to do something wrong and claim to be doing the right thing.
Then again, Europe needed a bad guy team. They're all way to nice over here, finally we have a team to actively boo during matches. Time to rename french fries to freedom fries yet again it seems.
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EPT
