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there is something that could backup Millenium statement of Millenium didn't knowing of Complexity beeing negotiating with Stephano.:
The news come has a total surprise : CoL announcing it first ? without anything like the "goodbye & best luck" news like they did for ToD and HuK when they left ?
If Millenium knew about theses negotiations, they obviously would have either proposed a counteroffer then, or said goodbye to Stephano & wish him the best luck, but certainly not wait until CoL announced they recruited him.
Complexity may be in their rights since they have a contract, but they obviously contacted Stephano in a sneaky way, without Millenium being ware of it. So why lie about it ?
That's certainly legal, but truly unprofessional.
And Millenium reaction also supports this theory:
They found that during the night coL convinced their top player to sign with them without being able to respond? They counteroffer: I guess that was the only move possible for them.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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On September 20 2011 04:34 Hodgy wrote:
Legally forcing him to join "the complexity family". Rofl this proves how coL really operates.
Read the OP and all it provides.
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On September 20 2011 04:34 Hodgy wrote:
Legally forcing him to join "the complexity family". Rofl this proves how coL really operates.
omg they operate by following rules how horrible of them. Of course they don't want him after this but they don't want to set a standard of people being able to break contracts
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On September 20 2011 04:32 Noxie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:16 XRaDiiX wrote:On September 20 2011 04:06 Deleuzebwo wrote:http://www.vvv-gaming.com/forum/topic/46628-losers-bracket-round-48/Jerith posted this upthread, but I'm going to repost because it is decently illuminating. Sounds like the contract that Titan signed was shoddy - seems like they took an old contract and re-worked it for Titan, thus making it oddly worded and potentially not valid. That doesn't mean Stephano's was similarly shoddy, but who knows. The lawyer also says that it would be near impossible to enforce a contract with a European party - arbitration might be possible but yeah. Of course Jerith himself doesn't seem to be too into contracts. Keep in mind, contracts can help players as well. I'm not sure if vvv's players are contracted, but the recent kerfluffle over their not providing travel money to their players after (what they perceived as) poor performances at MLG shows that a naive ideology of "brotherhood" doesn't cut it either. So they never said what team vVvTitan was possibly going to sign with... was it COL.? Because that in my books makes them look even more slimy. If it is COL? Like a sneaky snake... Its was complexity. This was stated up thread.
So this is the second time this has happened with COL. Then this Situation? Is this not a similar occurence?
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On September 20 2011 04:34 Hodgy wrote:
Legally forcing him to join "the complexity family". Rofl this proves how coL really operates.
I don't think that's what the statement says. Specific performance is pretty much rules out in this case - that is, I'd imagine that no court would force Stephano to play for coL. However, legal action would relate to damages.
Personally I don't think legal action is a good idea. Damages would be defined very conservatively (could coL really show that damages were done?), and I don't know if Millenium or Stephano have enough money to help coL recoup costs (including legal).
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wow this is bad, but can also be good. Guess a lot of teams will follow this closely to see and this might set a trend for future transfers. eSports is becoming like any other sport, if people in football dont follow their contract there will be consequences and so there be here. Might be hard to control that though without a governing body (like FIFA could sentence a player so he's not available to play).
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On September 20 2011 04:31 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:29 gulati wrote:On September 20 2011 04:25 drag_ wrote:On September 20 2011 04:17 gulati wrote:On September 20 2011 04:13 drag_ wrote:
Sigh, come on. I know this is "ESPORTS" and we must be super professional lawyer folk who do everything professionally to better the name of "ESPORTS", but this to me is taking it a little far. We're talking about an 18 year old kid whose probably never had to sign any contract let alone one that would have such ramifications. Yes, he signed the damn contract, but not even a full 2 days later he thinks he made a mistake - childish? Yes. Irresponsible? Yes. Illegal? Probably. However, I implore Complexity and Millenium to take this out of the public domain, have a talk between all three groups where they can come to a situation which is acceptable to everyone. I'm all for the "professionalisation" of Esports, but let's not lose touch of what really matters and make someone suffer for our own motives. First of all: he is not a "kid". Second of all, it's about the legal precedent; this has occurred multiple times, and compLexity being a top-tier leader in professional gaming wants to set the example, and stop this shit from ever occurring again. They have my full support to sue Millennium and contact as many authorities as they want. It is a GAME after all, but you DONT play games like this when it comes down to contracts. He's 18, yes he's a legal adult, but I would imagine that most of the members of this forum would agree that they were hardly grown up by the time they were 18. And I'm fairly certain he signed something without fully understanding the consequences, and now wants to take that decision back a day later. Is that so bad? I'm fairly certain in Europe we have a 14 day period where we can think annul the contract if we disagree with it anyways, so I can't see any legal motion winning. "Grown up" means nothing. Age means everything. To whom, though? From a legal standpoint, you're right, but I'm not sure why would you expect everyone to look at things from a legal standpoint. People can still have personal opinions about the whole issue, you know.
To the only parties who matter; compLexity, and Millennium. I agree - many people won't look at this from a legal standpoint. They have their personal opinions, I know. But ask yourself this, kind sir: Do those people matter in terms of this situation? They just have an opinion, and won't be the ones paying the bills in the end of the day.
I am being as straight-up and real as it gets. Sorry if I come off as harsh. But I take contractual law and professional organizations extremely seriously, and I feel that those who make decisions in professional organizations do also. So they are the only ones I am concerned with. I don't care about sympathy and sincerity in this matter whatsoever.
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On September 20 2011 04:26 AsnSensation wrote:
haha so funny
either way, col shoudl just let it go, no point in trying to force a player to play on your team if he does not want and he'll probably refuse anyway
funny and sad both..
unfortunately no one besides the parties involved know what really happend.
but I dont see how col could have pressured stephano... they can make an offer and set a deadline... nothing more...
it rather sounds to me that millenium did simply not accept the outcome and that they in turn did the pressuring.. and guilted stephano into staying...
just as they described in their statement, which i perceive as very unsportsmanlike, where they state they do not accept the situation etc.
I think liquid could have "guilted" huk into staying as well, but they simply accepted that eg made an offer they could not match (unfortunately)..
anyway.. it all sounds rather fishy, and in col. case i would not just let it go.. obviously you cannot make a player play for a team he doesnt want to play for, however, if he signed a contract he and mil both have to honor that contract. the only solution is for mil. to buy him out of that contract.
which i guess col would agree, since they too wouldnt want a player on their rooster that doesnt want to be there..
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When i saw Complexity had acquired him it took me by surprise.
But this was even more unexpected.
I really wonder how the negotiations took place.
Did Complexity talk to Millennium, giving them time before they wrote the contract? What kind of contract did Stephano agree on, and so on.
But no matter what i still think it's Stephano's choice. He seems very indecisive though =/, kinda stange.
If Complexity did do it all ''the right way'' then i understand their disappointment. But if Stephano wants to stay, I just think they should move on.
It's a odd story really xd
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On September 20 2011 04:32 legaton wrote:
I'm super happy, Millenium is a stronger structure than Col, with a better roster and a more interesting short term project. I was really surprised with the announcement, it was made at 5 AM in France, trying to catch Millenium with their pants down?
How the hell is Millenium a better team than Complexity? O_O
And you really think coL should release announcements in EU time when their HQ is in Cali or Texas(?). Doesn't make any sense.
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"Dear friends,
We know many of you are quite confused as to the recent incident involving Stephano and Team Millennium. Frankly, we are as well. As of the time of this post both have ignored our requests for open discussions. Our goal in this statement is to provide you with our side of the story, even as we are actively investigating the proper course of action, not only for ourselves but for the greater good of eSports in general.
We are proud of the fact that compLexity Gaming has been a global presence in eSports since 2003. During that time we have not been perfect but we have always tried to conduct our business affairs with the highest level of integrity. We have been honored to work with some of the best gamers in the world in multiple gaming titles and have made lifelong friendships in this "business" that is much more of a passion project than a profit machine. We say this because today, Millennium's outrageous allegations have suggested that our pursuit of Stephano was done in a less than honorable manner. To that we take great exception.
Here are the facts (all of which can be proven by written logs):
1) We first contacted Stephano on September 1st, 2011. We stated our interest in retaining his services and he stated that he was in no way contracted to Millennium and was interested in joining compLexity.
2) For the next 18 days we conducted negotiations. We would make an offer and Millennium would make a counter offer. At no point did we apply pressure other than to make it clear that we were willing to do what it would take to secure his services.
3) Over the course of several days, Jason Bass spent time explaining our contract to Stephano in detail and making sure he understood all of the terms.
4) Yesterday Stephano contacted coL.CatZ and our COO Jason Bass to inform them he had made his final decision and told CatZ "Don't worry I won't change my mind again." He then executed a legally binding contract with our organization. He seemed genuinely excited to be a part of our organization and joined our private Skype channel to chat with the team before going to bed.
5) Stephano's contract with compLexity made him one of the highest paid SC2 players in the world and ensured him global travel, training in Korea and access to other undisclosed plans we have for the future. In no way was he taken advantage of or pressured into a subpar agreement.
Today we were very surprised and disappointed to see that Millennium had announced Stephano would not be leaving their organization- completely disregarding and disrespecting the fact that he had 18 days to consider the offers and had executed a legally binding contract with our organization. As mentioned previously, as of the time of this post both Millennium and Stephano have refused to answer our emails requesting a discussion of this serious matter.
This leaves us in a very difficult situation. As people who are passionate about eSports, this situation is quickly turning out to be a humiliating one despite our best efforts to handle matters in the right way. By no means do we want to force a player to be part of our gaming family. For over eight years gamers have longed to play under the compLexity banner. To have someone treat our sincere offer of support and cooperation in such a light hearted manner is frustrating and disheartening.
On the other side of the coin, in order for all of us to have a stable and maturing eSports environment there absolutely must be respect for and adherence to legally binding contracts. How can any organization be expected to conduct the business side of gaming (acquiring and retaining sponsors, etc) if contracts are disregarded and players/teams do whatever they feel like at the moment? We believe the answer is clear- contracts must be honored and legally binding promises enforced if we are to continue our collective growth. It has never been our wish to legally pursue a gamer or another gaming organization but at what point must a stand be taken? These are the questions we are discussing today. We will fully review our options and will seriously consider legal action in this matter. Many observers would publicly crucify us for taking such a stand but it is our belief that doing what is right is more important that always doing what is popular. It is our intention to consult with other eSports leaders and weigh their opinions highly. Although this is ultimately our business decision and responsibility, the ramifications will be felt world-wide and we feel an obligation to get opinions from our respected colleagues.
We sincerely apologize to the coL Community and the broader eSports community for this embarrassing turn of events and we greatly thank you for your support. Both of us have poured ourselves into eSports for nearly a decade and are very disheartened by this situation.
Sincerely yours,
Jason Lake
Jason Bass
compLexity Gaming"
Source
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Can someone repost the statement by coL here? It appears the site has been bombarded a bit too much by ESPORTS FANATCIS!
Edit: Thank you ravmir!
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Wow, col website getting sloooooow... Maybe then can buy a new webserver - now that they dont have to pay Staphano :D
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I don't understand this at all.
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Oops?!
I really hope this drama doesn't affect Stephano's play and his oppertunities to attend the major tournements around the world. Stephano is a zerg beast and i really want to see him beat up Koreans on the big stage. Don't care what shirt he's wearing.
EDIT> Wouldn't be surprised if his parents want him to finish school and continue to study, instead of traveling around the world as a pro-gamer. It would be understandable, but sad and Stephano has the potential to make a lot of money in eSports. Wouldn't be surprised of Stephano himself actually wants to be with coL.
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Complexity's site states that they don't want a player who doesn't want to play with them on their team. The point is now that they don't want to create a precedent where a player can sign a contract and break it without consequences.
This isn't an argument about where Stefano will end up, he's going to stay with Mil, but it's now about how much Mil will have to pay to keep him.
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This is regrettable. I was hoping Stephano could get to enjoy his new team but as it stands, I doubt that he will be able to leave or enjoy his new team.
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5) Stephano's contract with compLexity made him one of the highest paid SC2 players in the world and ensured him global travel, training in Korea and access to other undisclosed plans we have for the future. In no way was he taken advantage of or pressured into a subpar agreement.
Wow. EG should be scared 
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EPT
