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On September 20 2011 04:29 gulati wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:25 drag_ wrote:On September 20 2011 04:17 gulati wrote:On September 20 2011 04:13 drag_ wrote:
Sigh, come on. I know this is "ESPORTS" and we must be super professional lawyer folk who do everything professionally to better the name of "ESPORTS", but this to me is taking it a little far. We're talking about an 18 year old kid whose probably never had to sign any contract let alone one that would have such ramifications. Yes, he signed the damn contract, but not even a full 2 days later he thinks he made a mistake - childish? Yes. Irresponsible? Yes. Illegal? Probably. However, I implore Complexity and Millenium to take this out of the public domain, have a talk between all three groups where they can come to a situation which is acceptable to everyone. I'm all for the "professionalisation" of Esports, but let's not lose touch of what really matters and make someone suffer for our own motives. First of all: he is not a "kid". Second of all, it's about the legal precedent; this has occurred multiple times, and compLexity being a top-tier leader in professional gaming wants to set the example, and stop this shit from ever occurring again. They have my full support to sue Millennium and contact as many authorities as they want. It is a GAME after all, but you DONT play games like this when it comes down to contracts. He's 18, yes he's a legal adult, but I would imagine that most of the members of this forum would agree that they were hardly grown up by the time they were 18. And I'm fairly certain he signed something without fully understanding the consequences, and now wants to take that decision back a day later. Is that so bad? I'm fairly certain in Europe we have a 14 day period where we can think annul the contract if we disagree with it anyways, so I can't see any legal motion winning. "Grown up" means nothing. Age means everything.
To whom, though?
From a legal standpoint, you're right, but I'm not sure why would you expect everyone to look at things from a legal standpoint. People can still have personal opinions about the whole issue, you know.
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On September 20 2011 04:27 DarkRise wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:25 StateAlchemist wrote:On September 20 2011 04:12 Uhh Negative wrote:On September 20 2011 04:09 djfoxmccloud wrote:
If you sign a contract, you still have some time to reverse your mind in France. Wait... are you serious? The funny thing is, I kind of believe France would do something like that. That totally distorts the whole purpose of a contract. The time to think is before you sign. Actually no, hes wrong, if the 2 parts consent both on the same terms of an offer, there is a contract. It's a fact. At the moment where you have a contract, there is legal obligations applicable. Oh and you can retract during negociations, but never after the creation of a contract. (in this case it seems that there is one) The problem is that we don't have all the elements of this story, so i hope that both millenium and coL do something to clarify the situation. If you signed it then both consent on same terms, that's simple!! What happen behind it doesn't matter!!
Yeah, but if on of the part hide some informations or something like that for exemple, the other part could easily argue that there is a deception or that there was a defect of consent.
That is where the problem is, we don't know a lot about all this story :/
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On September 20 2011 04:28 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:24 Vul wrote:On September 20 2011 04:18 TaktiDerBlonde wrote:
lol sounds like coL never talked to M+ orgas about transfer etc. In my opinion coL showed bad habits, recruiting a player behind the back of the former team.
hahah
american culture..big on honor.. Do you think Mill talked to Complexity before they talked Stephano into breaching his contract with them? german culture.. big on logic..  Germany World no 1 engineers fyi
I thought that was China/India...
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On September 20 2011 04:25 drag_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:17 gulati wrote:On September 20 2011 04:13 drag_ wrote:
Sigh, come on. I know this is "ESPORTS" and we must be super professional lawyer folk who do everything professionally to better the name of "ESPORTS", but this to me is taking it a little far. We're talking about an 18 year old kid whose probably never had to sign any contract let alone one that would have such ramifications. Yes, he signed the damn contract, but not even a full 2 days later he thinks he made a mistake - childish? Yes. Irresponsible? Yes. Illegal? Probably. However, I implore Complexity and Millenium to take this out of the public domain, have a talk between all three groups where they can come to a situation which is acceptable to everyone. I'm all for the "professionalisation" of Esports, but let's not lose touch of what really matters and make someone suffer for our own motives. First of all: he is not a "kid". Second of all, it's about the legal precedent; this has occurred multiple times, and compLexity being a top-tier leader in professional gaming wants to set the example, and stop this shit from ever occurring again. They have my full support to sue Millennium and contact as many authorities as they want. It is a GAME after all, but you DONT play games like this when it comes down to contracts. He's 18, yes he's a legal adult, but I would imagine that most of the members of this forum would agree that they were hardly grown up by the time they were 18. And I'm fairly certain he signed something without fully understanding the consequences, and now wants to take that decision back a day later. Is that so bad? I'm fairly certain in Europe we have a 14 day period where we can think annul the contract if we disagree with it anyways, so I can't see any legal motion winning.
If Complexity wrote that the contract was bound to the jurisdiction of Texas, USA and Stephano agreed then he will be bound to Texas law, not European/French law. If after their last fuck-up with the vVv contract they learnt something they'd put that in.
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Why would joining complexity be a bad move for Stephano? Is not there bigger potential to go to Korea, better practice, more tournaments?
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On September 20 2011 04:28 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:24 Vul wrote:On September 20 2011 04:18 TaktiDerBlonde wrote:
lol sounds like coL never talked to M+ orgas about transfer etc. In my opinion coL showed bad habits, recruiting a player behind the back of the former team.
hahah
american culture..big on honor.. Do you think Mill talked to Complexity before they talked Stephano into breaching his contract with them? german culture.. big on logic.. Germany World no 1 engineers fyi
Oh I was just kidding man
Edit: I actually got to live in Germany (K town) for about 2 years because my dad was in the Army, nothing against Germany 
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On September 20 2011 04:16 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:06 Deleuzebwo wrote:http://www.vvv-gaming.com/forum/topic/46628-losers-bracket-round-48/Jerith posted this upthread, but I'm going to repost because it is decently illuminating. Sounds like the contract that Titan signed was shoddy - seems like they took an old contract and re-worked it for Titan, thus making it oddly worded and potentially not valid. That doesn't mean Stephano's was similarly shoddy, but who knows. The lawyer also says that it would be near impossible to enforce a contract with a European party - arbitration might be possible but yeah. Of course Jerith himself doesn't seem to be too into contracts. Keep in mind, contracts can help players as well. I'm not sure if vvv's players are contracted, but the recent kerfluffle over their not providing travel money to their players after (what they perceived as) poor performances at MLG shows that a naive ideology of "brotherhood" doesn't cut it either. So they never said what team vVvTitan was possibly going to sign with... was it COL.? Because that in my books makes them look even more slimy. If it is COL? Like a sneaky snake...
Its was complexity. This was stated up thread.
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I'm super happy, Millenium is a stronger structure than Col, with a better roster and a more interesting short term project. I was really surprised with the announcement, it was made at 5 AM in France, trying to catch Millenium with their pants down?
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On September 20 2011 04:30 SnoLys wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:12 Medrea wrote:On September 20 2011 04:12 darmousseh wrote:On September 20 2011 04:09 djfoxmccloud wrote:
If you sign a contract, you still have some time to reverse your mind in France. How long typically? If this is the case, complexity was probably unaware of the french rules. Good thing it's a US contract. Good thing it can't be, since he is a French citizen signing with a foreign company, only french contracts can be signed. French law and all. And in France you have 1 month after signing before it's final.
Where do you get that logic? I'm not familiar with French law so I won't comment but that is absolutely not true that only French contracts could be signed. Especially because most contracts include a clause that indicates the jurisdiction in which contract disputes would be settled. If coL's contract explicitly states that jurisdiction is in the States, then it would be in the US. If it doesn't have any statement I think one would have to conclude that you'd use French jurisdiction as the citizen is French.
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On September 20 2011 04:31 ondik wrote:Stephano joining coL! + Show Spoiler +(hope someone didn't use it before  )
seems about right
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8751 Posts
On September 20 2011 04:28 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:24 Vul wrote:On September 20 2011 04:18 TaktiDerBlonde wrote:
lol sounds like coL never talked to M+ orgas about transfer etc. In my opinion coL showed bad habits, recruiting a player behind the back of the former team.
hahah
american culture..big on honor.. Do you think Mill talked to Complexity before they talked Stephano into breaching his contract with them? german culture.. big on logic.. Germany World no 1 engineers fyi
LOL!
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On September 20 2011 04:31 Sandro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:28 AsnSensation wrote:On September 20 2011 04:24 Vul wrote:On September 20 2011 04:18 TaktiDerBlonde wrote:
lol sounds like coL never talked to M+ orgas about transfer etc. In my opinion coL showed bad habits, recruiting a player behind the back of the former team.
hahah
american culture..big on honor.. Do you think Mill talked to Complexity before they talked Stephano into breaching his contract with them? german culture.. big on logic.. Germany World no 1 engineers fyi I thought that was China/India...
Don't mess with funnybot.
I really hope they work something out soon, otherwise there will be a storm of drama going on.
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On stephano´s Stream they sayd no contract had been signed and Millinium made 1 last offer in the last minut and comlexity was to fast to anounce it
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On September 20 2011 04:31 Sandro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:28 AsnSensation wrote:On September 20 2011 04:24 Vul wrote:On September 20 2011 04:18 TaktiDerBlonde wrote:
lol sounds like coL never talked to M+ orgas about transfer etc. In my opinion coL showed bad habits, recruiting a player behind the back of the former team.
hahah
american culture..big on honor.. Do you think Mill talked to Complexity before they talked Stephano into breaching his contract with them? german culture.. big on logic.. Germany World no 1 engineers fyi I thought that was China/India...
I thought that was Sweden!
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Legally forcing him to join "the complexity family". Rofl this proves how coL really operates.
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I think this situation
*sunglasses*
Just got complex.
YYYYYYYYYYYYEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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On September 20 2011 04:33 Lunas wrote:
On stephano´s Stream they sayd no contract had been signed and Millinium made 1 last offer in the last minut and comlexity was to fast to anounce it
Yeah and Stephano/his fans aren't biased at all.
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I don't get the people saying that this is understandable because he's young. I am 19, only a single year older than Stephano, and I sure as hell knew what a legally binding contract were a year ago. France is not a third world country, they have a pretty good educational system and going throught it would probably automaticly make you understand what a contract is. Being 18 means you don't have a lot of life experience, and sometimes you make really bad decisions, but that doesn't make it okay. Everyone have to live with their mistakes, even pro-gamers.
Basically I think it's safe to assume that everyone that lives in France knows what the fuck a legally binding contract is, and the reprocussions from breaking one are at the age of 18. And if there is something you don't understand or that confuses you in said contract, every semi intellegent 18 year old knows that they should ask about it.
'On September 20 2011 04:34 Hodgy wrote:
Legally forcing him to join "the complexity family". Rofl this proves how coL really operates.
At some point someone is going to have to act the way coL does now or else it's going to be anarchy in regards to signing players. I have to wonder if you would react the same way if say Team Liquid or EG or Fnatic offered MVP and Nestea a shitload of money and get them to break their contracts. Would IM be the bad guys if they reacted to try and keep their players? Because that would be pretty much the exact same situation.
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EPT
