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United States2235 Posts
Currently, Guardian Shield only applies to certain ranged attacks. As liquipedia says on the Guardian Shield page:
The effect is limited to ranged attacks; splash attacks are not subject to the reduction.
Certain units, most notably Colossi and Siege Tanks, completely ignore Guardian Shield.
However, hidden among the new PTR notes (where it is interestingly classified as a bug fix rather than a buff--I guess certain units were never meant to bypass the shield) is this little gem:
Sentry Guardian Shield now correctly reduces damage from Hellion, Void ray, and Colossus attacks as well as the Siege Tank’s sieged attack.
This might seem minor, but it is actually pretty huge in a couple of situations.
First, Zealots and Stalkers with Guardian shield protection will now take 7 Colossi shots to bring down rather than 6. This is pretty substantial, as it means that 3 Colossi (generally considered a critical mass number at which Gateway armies become nearly useless except to shield Colossi, which leads to "War of the Worlds" syndrome in lategame PvP) will no longer 2 shot groups of Zealots and Stalkers.
Second, Guardian shield is the only damage-reducing effect in the game that stacks with The Immortals Hardened Shield. Immortals protected by GS take a maximum of 8 damage per attacks. This means that it now takes Tanks 12 shots to get through the hardened shield rather than 10, and it takes Colossi 6 shots rather than 5.
When combined with its improved range, it should now be considerably easier to get an Immortal close to the P and T siege units in order to bring them down (which was, after all, the role it was designed for).
I believe that this will help enormously with War of the Worlds in PvP, especially now that prism-dropping in your opponent's base is very viable. Opponents will need more Colossi before they hit the critical mass needed to melt Gateway armies, and getting your Immortals close to kill those Colossi will be much easier.
I think it will also help a lot with 1/1/1 in PvT. For all that people bitch about Banshees, there's a reason that 1/1/1's vary hugely in what exact air support units they get (some get Ravens and Banshees, some just Banshees, some Cloakshees), but every single version includes a Siege Tanks. The attack just isn't as scary without it. Now that Siege Tanks deal less damage to Immortals (and the surrounding splash also deals less damage to the Gateway units) and Immortals have longer range, that Tank is a bit less scary.
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Holy crap this is huge. This change could possibly balance a lot of things out.
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Holy crap. This is insane. It is the absolute end of any tank usage against Protoss, combined with the Immortal's 6 range.
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On August 26 2011 00:36 Tommie wrote:
Holy crap. This is insane. It is the absolute end of any tank usage against Protoss, combined with the Immortal's 6 range.
Quite the over-exaggeration, but I do hope my favorite protosses are informed of this right away. Someone should mass PM all pro-toss' (/shades) and let them know!
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Neat find. Even though it's a great ability, it often seems like Guardian Shield takes a backseat to Force Field, and people sort of toggle it on and forget about it instead of making sure key units are getting the effect.
Sentries are so boss.
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On August 26 2011 00:57 Shadico wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 00:36 Tommie wrote:
Holy crap. This is insane. It is the absolute end of any tank usage against Protoss, combined with the Immortal's 6 range. Quite the over-exaggeration, but I do hope my favorite protosses are informed of this right away. Someone should mass PM all pro-toss' (/shades) and let them know!
It's not at all an over-exaggeration.
Immortals murder tanks.
Immortals now murder tanks from 20% longer range.
Immortals now take 20% less damage from tanks when they're accompanied by an innocent little sentry.
That sounds like it should be 40% easier to kill tanks. I'm sure someone who likes math will come in and say it's closer to 32.7838475386%, but I can live with the assumption for now.
BUT THIS IS THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE. Immortals are quite literally an anti-tank unit. It didn't feel right that they weren't as useful as they are on the PTR.
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Holy...that's massive.
I always assumed the splash ignore was intentional. This is the single biggest change in the patch...Immortals will be OP now.
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Wow I wonder how this affects the idea that BFH's are a counter to the Zealot + sentry comp.
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On August 26 2011 01:02 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 00:57 Shadico wrote:On August 26 2011 00:36 Tommie wrote:
Holy crap. This is insane. It is the absolute end of any tank usage against Protoss, combined with the Immortal's 6 range. Quite the over-exaggeration, but I do hope my favorite protosses are informed of this right away. Someone should mass PM all pro-toss' (/shades) and let them know! It's not at all an over-exaggeration. Immortals murder tanks. Immortals now murder tanks from 20% longer range. Immortals now take 20% less damage from tanks when they're accompanied by an innocent little sentry. That sounds like it should be 40% easier to kill tanks. I'm sure someone who likes math will come in and say it's closer to 32.7838475386%, but I can live with the assumption for now. BUT THIS IS THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE. Immortals are quite literally an anti-tank unit. It didn't feel right that they weren't as useful as they are on the PTR.
Yeh math isn't you  . The overall effect is less than 20%...
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United States2235 Posts
Wow I wonder how this affects the idea that BFH's are a counter to the Zealot + sentry comp.
BFHs now deal only 3 more damage to GSed Zealots than RFHs did pre-patch. Thats pretty huge, actually. I mean, I still wouldn't recommend intentionally going Zealot-Sentry vs. a Hellion build, but if you do you'll be taking 7 less damage per shot than you would have before..
Previously, a BFH Hellion would kill a Zealot in 7 shots. Now it would take them 10 if GS is up. Thats a 43% increase in survivability.
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On August 26 2011 01:14 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 01:02 Chargelot wrote:On August 26 2011 00:57 Shadico wrote:On August 26 2011 00:36 Tommie wrote:
Holy crap. This is insane. It is the absolute end of any tank usage against Protoss, combined with the Immortal's 6 range. Quite the over-exaggeration, but I do hope my favorite protosses are informed of this right away. Someone should mass PM all pro-toss' (/shades) and let them know! It's not at all an over-exaggeration. Immortals murder tanks. Immortals now murder tanks from 20% longer range. Immortals now take 20% less damage from tanks when they're accompanied by an innocent little sentry. That sounds like it should be 40% easier to kill tanks. I'm sure someone who likes math will come in and say it's closer to 32.7838475386%, but I can live with the assumption for now. BUT THIS IS THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE. Immortals are quite literally an anti-tank unit. It didn't feel right that they weren't as useful as they are on the PTR. Yeh math isn't you . The overall effect is less than 20%...
In a one on one (save the sentry providing guardian shield, lets say he doesn't get to attack), controlled and calculable environment, please explain how the effects of both 20% longer range and 20% less incoming damage equates to less than a 20% increase in combat efficiency.
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Wow, I'm interested in seeing how this changes TvP.
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On August 26 2011 01:02 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 00:57 Shadico wrote:On August 26 2011 00:36 Tommie wrote:
Holy crap. This is insane. It is the absolute end of any tank usage against Protoss, combined with the Immortal's 6 range. Quite the over-exaggeration, but I do hope my favorite protosses are informed of this right away. Someone should mass PM all pro-toss' (/shades) and let them know! It's not at all an over-exaggeration. Immortals murder tanks. Immortals now murder tanks from 20% longer range. Immortals now take 20% less damage from tanks when they're accompanied by an innocent little sentry. That sounds like it should be 40% easier to kill tanks. I'm sure someone who likes math will come in and say it's closer to 32.7838475386%, but I can live with the assumption for now. BUT THIS IS THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE. Immortals are quite literally an anti-tank unit. It didn't feel right that they weren't as useful as they are on the PTR.
I would guess that the guardian shield modification to the damage would be calculated first, then the resulting damage would be capped at 10. So immortals with shields up wouldn't gain anything from the guardian shield.
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On August 26 2011 01:19 Ryalnos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 01:02 Chargelot wrote:On August 26 2011 00:57 Shadico wrote:On August 26 2011 00:36 Tommie wrote:
Holy crap. This is insane. It is the absolute end of any tank usage against Protoss, combined with the Immortal's 6 range. Quite the over-exaggeration, but I do hope my favorite protosses are informed of this right away. Someone should mass PM all pro-toss' (/shades) and let them know! It's not at all an over-exaggeration. Immortals murder tanks. Immortals now murder tanks from 20% longer range. Immortals now take 20% less damage from tanks when they're accompanied by an innocent little sentry. That sounds like it should be 40% easier to kill tanks. I'm sure someone who likes math will come in and say it's closer to 32.7838475386%, but I can live with the assumption for now. BUT THIS IS THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE. Immortals are quite literally an anti-tank unit. It didn't feel right that they weren't as useful as they are on the PTR. I would guess that the guardian shield modification to the damage would be calculated first, then the resulting damage would be capped at 10. So immortals with shields up wouldn't gain anything from the guardian shield.
then you are guessing wrong
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Why does blizz hate mech so much? Double BF nerf and nerf to tanks vs toss. I don't want to MMM every single game.
Time to go mass ghost/BC then. <___<
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United States2235 Posts
I would guess that the guardian shield modification to the damage would be calculated first, then the resulting damage would be capped at 10. So immortals with shields up wouldn't gain anything from the guardian shield.
You would guess wrong. GS, unlike every other damage reducing effect in the game, stacks with Hardened Shield. So HS + GS caps damage at 8.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Hardened_Shield
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On August 26 2011 01:02 Chargelot wrote:
It's not at all an over-exaggeration.
Immortals murder tanks.
Immortals now murder tanks from 20% longer range.
Immortals now take 20% less damage from tanks when they're accompanied by an innocent little sentry.
That sounds like it should be 40% easier to kill tanks..
Terrans above wood league have been known to not order their sieged tanks to focus down immortals with full shields.
The Guardian Shield working on Tank Splash though is indeed very nice in general and will probably help more against 1-1-1 than some might believe. Basically every tank shot will deal about 10 dmg less (~5 times splash dmg reduced by 2) in total per shot, if GS is up.
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Oh my, this is pretty huge... Good job man, really interesting find.
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EPT
