|
On August 19 2011 07:14 tztztz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 07:02 Tyrant0 wrote:
Blizzard already supports SC2 as an e-sport in many ways except monetarily. The game is balanced around professional level play, they advertise tournaments, blizzcon. SC2 can flourish on it's own. Valve and Riot are creating massive bubbles around DotA 2 and LoL which will inevitably pop if other outside organizations don't invest.
OP's point is insane. massive bubbles? they said the same about sc2 back then (and some still do). anyways, let's judge after mlg raleigh, when we have the viewer counts. if it ends up like dreamhack i can see sc2 losing the mainstage again next season.
Theres a monumental difference between the possibility of a bubble around SC2 e-sports, and injecting millions of dollars into tournaments in the face of very little support else where. Take away that money from Riot- then LoL, in it's current form is dwarfed by SC2.
|
On August 19 2011 07:21 Tyrant0 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 07:14 tztztz wrote:On August 19 2011 07:02 Tyrant0 wrote:
Blizzard already supports SC2 as an e-sport in many ways except monetarily. The game is balanced around professional level play, they advertise tournaments, blizzcon. SC2 can flourish on it's own. Valve and Riot are creating massive bubbles around DotA 2 and LoL which will inevitably pop if other outside organizations don't invest.
OP's point is insane. massive bubbles? they said the same about sc2 back then (and some still do). anyways, let's judge after mlg raleigh, when we have the viewer counts. if it ends up like dreamhack i can see sc2 losing the mainstage again next season. Theres a monumental difference between the possibility a bubble around SC2 e-sports, and injecting millions of dollars into tournaments in the face of very little support else where. Take away that money from Riot- then LoL, in it's current form is dwarfed by SC2.
that's right, but it's because it's at the beginnig. it just recently exploded as an e-sport. if you just look at the player base, it has more potential to attract sponsors than sc2 had at the beginning. all i'm saying is that time will tell if it can stand as an e-sport, but i just don't get why people are so certain that it will fail.
|
blizzard makes games multiplayer is just a bonus. 
More seriously ... if creators supports their game the community sees no need to move a muscle ... so the community dies super fast once the creator moves on. Now with the success of free 2 play games, the download content for normal games arrived, allowing the creators to stick around a lil longer. So the game will live on a lil longer, as long as there is nothing new shiny where people can spend their money on.
So yay for the blizzard way ... but yay for the riot way making lots of money and not getting hated for it heh.
And this viewer thingie mistery was solved the last tournament with LoL and sc2 ... no reason to warm it up.
The more a creator does the faster the game dies :3 . Since that happened in 90% of the time, i am happy that blizzard keeps it that way. You can't be always blessed with a good community like the 10%
|
On August 19 2011 07:28 tztztz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 07:21 Tyrant0 wrote:On August 19 2011 07:14 tztztz wrote:On August 19 2011 07:02 Tyrant0 wrote:
Blizzard already supports SC2 as an e-sport in many ways except monetarily. The game is balanced around professional level play, they advertise tournaments, blizzcon. SC2 can flourish on it's own. Valve and Riot are creating massive bubbles around DotA 2 and LoL which will inevitably pop if other outside organizations don't invest.
OP's point is insane. massive bubbles? they said the same about sc2 back then (and some still do). anyways, let's judge after mlg raleigh, when we have the viewer counts. if it ends up like dreamhack i can see sc2 losing the mainstage again next season. Theres a monumental difference between the possibility a bubble around SC2 e-sports, and injecting millions of dollars into tournaments in the face of very little support else where. Take away that money from Riot- then LoL, in it's current form is dwarfed by SC2. that's right, but it's because it's at the beginnig. it just recently exploded as an e-sport. if you just look at the player base, it has more potential to attract sponsors than sc2 had at the beginning. all i'm saying is that time will tell if it can stand as an e-sport, but i just don't get why people are so certain that it will fail.
I nor anyone (that I've read within the last few pages) is arguing Riot's strategy for attracting sponsors is incorrect, or that LoL is doomed to fail because of its bubble. The OP is saying that blizzard needs to be more active in promoting e-sports like Riot, which is BS.
|
Eh, I doubt Blizzard is making much of anything from SC2 sales anymore, promoting some more events isn't going to get many newer players into the game if they haven't taken interest already. They might pump it up a bit closer to the release of the expansion packs, but they really have bigger fish to fry in terms of money gained.
|
You should also remember that LoL and DotA's (which will carry over to DotA 2 presumably) communities are quite different to the SC scene. Have you been to the LoL forums? The publicity style Riot and Valve uses is a lot more viral than Blizzard has ever used for Starcraft 2.
This is a good thing IMO, for all companies involved. It promotes variety in the way people percieve the games. To use a sport analogy: I'd say that LoL, and by extension, DotA2, are alot like whatever your country's overall most popular sport is (rugby for Australia, arguably), and SC/SC2 is more like the soccer of the e-sports world.
Of course, that's heavily opinionated, but I feel that if Blizzard were to throw as much publicity for SC2 around like Riot does for LoL, it would somehow make the games seem more similar, and at this point what we don't want is to lose variety in the gaming scene.
|
On August 19 2011 03:22 Chicane wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 03:17 Chill wrote:
I think it's a great summary thread but you've killed it by basing it around a fruitless question about a corporation's policies. It seems pretty silly to compare Blizzard to Riot, they aren't even on the same magnitude of scale. Compare Blizzard to Valve and things get closer. I don't understand what you are getting at. Valve in the past has actively decided not to get involved with CS to not help or harm it. With Dota 2 that is clearly not going to be the case, and they will support it. It also seems it will be the case with CS:GO. So with these new generations of games that are getting serious attention from being an esport, Valve is looking to jump in on the action more so than Blizzard. I must be missing the point though, because I don't see why you would need to compare Blizzard to Valve and not Riot. Either way Blizzard should be trying to support the game by doing things as simple as promoting it on their own sites imo.
his point is scope of the company.
Blizzard is a megacorporation, Riot is a small game developer that has essentially put all of their eggs in 1 basket (LoL), they need it to work, they need it to grow. They have no real brand recognition outside their one successful game.
I believe he is saying to use Valve because Valve on the scale of gaming companies, more resembles Blizzards size/success. The size/success of the company and how diversified the company relates to a lot of business strategy with the need to support/not support a certain title.
|
i think blizzard needs to take advantage of the koreans to sell more copies. more copies of bw sold in korea than the rest of the world combined(i assume) because of their culture of how fads can spread like wildfire. they tried and failed, they should perhaps try again with a different approach, even changing how sc2 works so that its easier to approach in pc bang and more open environment in game modes because at the moment its 1v1 or 3v3 with random people regardless of skill and race vs random 1v1 ladder.
its still baffling why they took out custom game lobbies over the current static custom game mode.
i'd say this does play a big role for casual gamers.
|
On August 19 2011 04:55 bunnymuncher wrote:
I think it's pretty clear from all these posts that SC2 > LoL
this is the SC2 general forum what do you expect ??
But why would you compare 2 different games that operate in esports completely differently
Its like sayign football is better than basketball because more people watch the world championship....
|
100% agree that Blizzard needs to promote the game more:
- Advertise tournaments in big banners on the main Bnet screen
- Embed tournaments live streams and GSL vods inside battle.net
- Advertise tournaments on the official SC2 website
|
LOL blizzard is terrible, Valve is the best company ever. EVER. I mean they always try to make team fortress 2 better and always listen to the community. And they made half life 2, best game EVER. EVER. And counter-strike.
|
Yes Blizzard could do much more for the scene... But they would probably not gain more money from it =/...
On August 19 2011 08:11 koolaid1990 wrote:
LOL blizzard is terrible, Valve is the best company ever. EVER. I mean they always try to make team fortress 2 better and always listen to the community. And they made half life 2, best game EVER. EVER. And counter-strike.
Terrible is way to harsh. Your talking about the company that has made to this day the greatest games.
WC1/2/3, SC/BW, SC2, Diablo 1/2 and WoW....
|
On August 19 2011 08:11 koolaid1990 wrote:
LOL blizzard is terrible, Valve is the best company ever. EVER. I mean they always try to make team fortress 2 better and always listen to the community. And they made half life 2, best game EVER. EVER. And counter-strike.
You know that you are posting on site that got its existence thanks to this terrible company right?
Irony at its finest.
|
If you've been watching some of the DOTA2 vods on youtube, you'll notice the ones without commentary have very smooth camera movement. Apparently, Valve has implemented an AI observer that's programmed to follow the most interesting places on the map, such as when opposing heroes get close to each other or to showcase other clutch moments in the game. Not only this, but word is there's a commentate function that lets audio channels be recorded in the replay, so you can follow the commentary in-game and even choose which commentary you want to listen to. I got really excited when I saw this screenshot of the UI for this game, it seems Valve is going all out with the community features.
Seeing all that I can't help but feel disappointed with Blizzard. If they would only put more time into the small things in Battle.net that the community has been asking for so long. Being able to watch replays with other people and some sort of tournament feature. Just those things would go such a long way to help the community organize and advertise for their game.
|
If you want money invested by the developer, I think you should wait for Blizzcon. Aside from that, GomTV is funded by Blizzard, isn't it? They already invested a few millon dollar into SC2 E-Sport. Don't forget that hosting the GSL costs lots of money, it's not just the prizepool. I wouldn't be surprise if Blizzard has already spent way more than their competition.
What I'm trying to say is that a prizepool on its own isn't everything. It needs proper production to be enjoyable.
|
I don't think any of the reasons you listed for the larger viewership are the main reason. I don't think it hurts but in all honesty the places you mentioned are all directed at people that if they are not watching at least know about it. Lets face it SC2 is a year old, if you don't really like the game, you are done with it until HotS, What I'm saying is I'd venture to say anyone that still plays SC2 or still visits the SC2 web homepage knows about the SC2 competitive scene, and they either already watch or don't care to.
The prize pool is intriguing but again I think only to people who are already fans of competitive gaming, to someone who is a huge fan of PGA Golf for instance, 1 million is not a lot of money. It's interesting to me because to me, it's a huge number compared to the events I normally follow (GSL, MLG, NASL etc)
The reason for the viewership is the free client and MOBA popularity in China.
I've heard it theorized that BW popularity in Korea was largely helped by the fact that it was an old game, and even someone with a shitty computer, or a computer at a pc cafe was perfectly capable of playing the game at full settings (did game back then have graphic settings?). weather or not that was true, it is true for dota1(old) and LoL(free) worldwide I for one tried LoL (having heard of but never tried dota) specifically because it was free and turned out to like it quite a bit.
I might be wrong, it might just be my experience, and I'm not suggesting sc2 move to a free client platform, but this is my theory on the moba viewership.
|
Blizzard gains little from esports other then some community goodwill. They don't care if the GSL champion is me or MMA, that is just one box sale each. Besides, the real money maker for Blizzard is World of Warcraft. Esports may be growing and we all love to see SC2 become mainstream, but at the end of the day, we are a niche community (like professional wrestling).
|
Blizzard is part of activision, and are a publicly traded company. They have a lot more limitations and need to do what's best for the shareholders, which unfortunately means they probably can't throw out lots of money for esports. They are doing what's profitable.
That said, they should be doin way more.
|
On August 19 2011 08:11 koolaid1990 wrote:
LOL blizzard is terrible, Valve is the best company ever. EVER. I mean they always try to make team fortress 2 better and always listen to the community. And they made half life 2, best game EVER. EVER. And counter-strike.
Valve listens to the casual gamers. You clearly have no idea how bad they are at listening to the competitive community.
Oh yeh they made tf2 better with hats yeh?
CS:GO is their horrible idea of a competitive game. Thats valve for you. They make great games for sure but theyre the bane of existence in the eyes of the competitive community
|
Netherlands45349 Posts
On August 19 2011 07:21 Tyrant0 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 07:14 tztztz wrote:On August 19 2011 07:02 Tyrant0 wrote:
Blizzard already supports SC2 as an e-sport in many ways except monetarily. The game is balanced around professional level play, they advertise tournaments, blizzcon. SC2 can flourish on it's own. Valve and Riot are creating massive bubbles around DotA 2 and LoL which will inevitably pop if other outside organizations don't invest.
OP's point is insane. massive bubbles? they said the same about sc2 back then (and some still do). anyways, let's judge after mlg raleigh, when we have the viewer counts. if it ends up like dreamhack i can see sc2 losing the mainstage again next season. Theres a monumental difference between the possibility of a bubble around SC2 e-sports, and injecting millions of dollars into tournaments in the face of very little support else where. Take away that money from Riot- then LoL, in it's current form is dwarfed by SC2.
The Dota 2 stream(which is also getting injected with a milion) had 1.4 million constant viewers.
Fairly certain sponsors like that, even though alot of the viewers were chinese.
Valve is taking huge steps to make the best spectator mode available, and it looks very promising.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
