Incredible Miracle's NesTea and Mvp have been announced as the Korean invites to the Global Battle.net Invitational to be held at BlizzCon 2011.
As previously announced, the Korean invites were to be the top 2 players in GSL rankings as of September 10, 2011 (i.e. the cutoff is GSL August); with NesTea and Mvp both advancing to the Round of 16, MC being eliminated and MarineKing being in Code A, even if Optimus were to win GSL August he would be unable to overhaul Mvp in GSL rankings.
This seems to be independent of the Korean Battle.net Invitational tournament scheduled for August 27 (see here: no details as of writing though, only a big "Coming soon" button), which in light of this announcement has no bearing on BlizzCon invites.UPDATE 2011/08/21: The BlizzCon tournaments page has now been updated to omit StarCraft II from the games list for the Korean Battle.net Invitational, i.e. there is no Korean Battle.net Invitational tournament for StarCraft II.
On August 17 2011 17:08 RaiKageRyu wrote: The Korean Battle.Net invitational is probably just for WoW. It's listed as one day after all. Then again since I haven't heard anything about russian server qualifiers, there are two spots where I don't know will come from. Small possibility that Blizz is Korean bias and opens another two spots for Koreans to compete for.
RaiKageRyu gets it right!
tl;dr: NesTea and Mvp are going to BlizzCon 2011. Nobody else from the Korean region is invited (this includes Genius, the defending champion *sniff*).The Korean Battle.net Invitational has nothing do with BlizzCon invites.There is no Korean Battle.net Invitational tournament for StarCraft II. Enjoy, and discuss.
I actually didn't like how they did the Korean invites. They make the best players from each region play each other in a very short, very volatile double elim tourney, where the best player of the region isn't necessarily going to grab the invite.
Yet for the Koreans, which is an INCREDIBLY deep talent pool, they just go ahead and pluck the top two players from the rankings of a very different tourney than the blizzard invitationals.
Its not necessarily about NesTea and MVP being very good players, but put them up against each other in several best of threes against 6 other of the best Korean players, you could end up with a different invite combination than NesTea/MVP (hell, mvp/nestea could very well have eliminated one another).
On August 17 2011 14:35 ch33psh33p wrote: Nestea Vs Mvp finals at Blizzcon.
Nestea V Mvp Gsl finals in Blizzcon.
100% happening.
i feel like nestea would easily win both.
yep
If Nestea gets plenty of rest, I can't really see him being taken out at blizzcon. MVP is awesome, but I can't help but think he hasn't been as dominant as he used to be 5-6 months ago.
I also don't see Nestea losing GSL anytime soon
but hey you never know, Nestea has a really bad record vs mvp
Also, awesome invites, couldn't think of anyone better except maybe bomber but there was no wrong choice made
On August 17 2011 14:37 Magic1264 wrote: I actually didn't like how they did the Korean invites. They make the best players from each region play each other in a very short, very volatile double elim tourney, where the best player of the region isn't necessarily going to grab the invite.
Yet for the Koreans, which is an INCREDIBLY deep talent pool, they just go ahead and pluck the top two players from the rankings of a very different tourney than the blizzard invitationals.
Its not necessarily about NesTea and MVP being very good players, but put them up against each other in several best of threes against 6 other of the best Korean players, you could end up with a different invite combination than NesTea/MVP (hell, mvp/nestea could very well have eliminated one another).
Whats wrong with inviting the top2 Koreans ? I mean, it's on general consensus that mvp & Nestea are the best two Korean players, not just GSL ranking
On August 17 2011 14:35 ch33psh33p wrote: Nestea Vs Mvp finals at Blizzcon.
Nestea V Mvp Gsl finals in Blizzcon.
100% happening.
i feel like nestea would easily win both.
yep
If Nestea gets plenty of rest, I can't really see him being taken out at blizzcon. MVP is awesome, but I can't help but think he hasn't been as dominant as he used to be 5-6 months ago.
I also don't see Nestea losing GSL anytime soon
but hey you never know, Nestea has a really bad record vs mvp
Also, awesome invites, couldn't think of anyone better except maybe bomber but there was no wrong choice made
You must not have very good vision, because Nestea is about to lose vs MVP in GSL
On August 17 2011 14:37 Magic1264 wrote: I actually didn't like how they did the Korean invites. They make the best players from each region play each other in a very short, very volatile double elim tourney, where the best player of the region isn't necessarily going to grab the invite.
Yet for the Koreans, which is an INCREDIBLY deep talent pool, they just go ahead and pluck the top two players from the rankings of a very different tourney than the blizzard invitationals.
Its not necessarily about NesTea and MVP being very good players, but put them up against each other in several best of threes against 6 other of the best Korean players, you could end up with a different invite combination than NesTea/MVP (hell, mvp/nestea could very well have eliminated one another).
I would like to at least partially agree with you, given that this means the Korean Battle.net Invitational means nothing except some $$$ - the fact that the selection mechanics were announced well in advance doesn't make it any sweeter. But then again, NesTea and Mvp are serious nerd ballers (you don't earn multiple GSL championships just by showing up, except if your name is NesTea?), so I won't fuss about the invites too much, I will be rooting for the "foreigners" to take some games off NesTea and Mvp so it doesn't become yet another GSL event d-:
Maybe since Korea is the strongest country they'll give 4 spots to Koreans at Blizzcon? Nestea and MVP because they're 1-2 in GSL points and 2 more from the actual Korea invitational?
On August 17 2011 14:47 red4ce wrote: Maybe since Korea is the strongest country they'll give 4 spots to Koreans at Blizzcon? Nestea and MVP because they're 1-2 in GSL points and 2 more from the actual Korea invitational?
Nope, Korean invitational means squat, each region gets 2 players.
On August 17 2011 14:35 ch33psh33p wrote: Nestea Vs Mvp finals at Blizzcon.
Nestea V Mvp Gsl finals in Blizzcon.
100% happening.
i feel like nestea would easily win both.
yep
If Nestea gets plenty of rest, I can't really see him being taken out at blizzcon. MVP is awesome, but I can't help but think he hasn't been as dominant as he used to be 5-6 months ago.
I also don't see Nestea losing GSL anytime soon
but hey you never know, Nestea has a really bad record vs mvp
Also, awesome invites, couldn't think of anyone better except maybe bomber but there was no wrong choice made
You must not have very good vision, because Nestea is about to lose vs MVP in GSL
Didn't bother to check brackets before, my fault -.-
I can hope though. Too bad mvp seems to be nestea's kryptonite
Can't edit it out now either because then I'd seem like a straight foo since you quoted it D: D:
Who's the proudest coach at the moment? I think it's the IM coach. His team is full of champions, not only in individual leagues, but also team league.
Nestea said he never beat Mvp in practice back during January. His most recent reaction was being thoroughly unimpressed at the likeliness of facing him in the ro16. Either this was because he assumed they would both get 1st in their groups or he has been beating him consistently. Considering how random sc2 and how smart Nestea is I'm going to go with the latter.
On August 17 2011 14:37 Magic1264 wrote: I actually didn't like how they did the Korean invites. They make the best players from each region play each other in a very short, very volatile double elim tourney, where the best player of the region isn't necessarily going to grab the invite.
Yet for the Koreans, which is an INCREDIBLY deep talent pool, they just go ahead and pluck the top two players from the rankings of a very different tourney than the blizzard invitationals.
Its not necessarily about NesTea and MVP being very good players, but put them up against each other in several best of threes against 6 other of the best Korean players, you could end up with a different invite combination than NesTea/MVP (hell, mvp/nestea could very well have eliminated one another).
Blame it on the fact that no other tournament is run as frequently with a system of points given to each player. Statistically speaking, based on the GSL point totals Nestea and MVP SHOULD have won the qualifiers anyway (barring no rediculous upsets or them facing eachother prior). If the rest of the world had any uniform tournament point system then there probably wouldn't be any "qualfiers" and all the invitationals would simply be as "unimportant" as the Korean one.
This has been known for some time but nice that it's official. Blizzcon will be awesome, it will be NesTeas first tournament outside Korea.
Regarding the GSL Points and the Blizzcon invite it shows why MC chose MVP in the group selection for Code S.
He knew that in order to get an invite to Blizzcon he had to win GSL and also not let MVP get far in the tournament, the best option for that may have been a Bo1 to knock him out early.
On August 17 2011 15:05 TheSilverfox wrote: This has been known for some time but nice that it's official. Blizzcon will be awesome, it will be NesTeas first tournament outside Korea.
Regarding the GSL Points and the Blizzcon invite it shows why MC chose MVP in the group selection for Code S.
He knew that in order to get an invite to Blizzcon he had to win GSL and also not let MVP get far in the tournament, the best option for that may have been a Bo1 to knock him out early.
On August 17 2011 15:05 TheSilverfox wrote: This has been known for some time but nice that it's official. Blizzcon will be awesome, it will be NesTeas first tournament outside Korea.
Regarding the GSL Points and the Blizzcon invite it shows why MC chose MVP in the group selection for Code S.
He knew that in order to get an invite to Blizzcon he had to win GSL and also not let MVP get far in the tournament, the best option for that may have been a Bo1 to knock him out early.
That sure owned himself in the face pretty hard.
It was a good idea in theory, but poorly executed )-:
On August 17 2011 15:05 TheSilverfox wrote: This has been known for some time but nice that it's official. Blizzcon will be awesome, it will be NesTeas first tournament outside Korea.
Regarding the GSL Points and the Blizzcon invite it shows why MC chose MVP in the group selection for Code S.
He knew that in order to get an invite to Blizzcon he had to win GSL and also not let MVP get far in the tournament, the best option for that may have been a Bo1 to knock him out early.
That sure owned himself in the face pretty hard.
Yep! The absolutely funny thing about it was also that MVP chose Polt to the group (If I don't remember this totally wrong).
Polt also had a chance to get a Blizzcon invite so basically MVP just laughed at it and saw the opportunity to be confirmed directly after the group .
On August 17 2011 14:35 ch33psh33p wrote: Nestea Vs Mvp finals at Blizzcon.
Nestea V Mvp Gsl finals in Blizzcon.
100% happening.
i feel like nestea would easily win both.
NesTea BARELY made it into the ro16
MMA totally smashed him and he was || close to losing to IMHappy
MVP is HEAVILY favored.
MVP does a ton better when he plans and prepares specific builds and strategies for different maps. He is a master of mind games. He isn't anywhere near as strong in a BO1 as he is in a BO5 or BO7. Against anyone in the world, as you increase the number of games he gets better.
Man it would be epic if we had a nestea/mvp finals for both blizzcon and gsl though
On August 17 2011 14:35 ch33psh33p wrote: Nestea Vs Mvp finals at Blizzcon.
Nestea V Mvp Gsl finals in Blizzcon.
100% happening.
Interesting thought since they play in the ro8 vs each other
First, it's the Round of 16 d-: And the GSL Finals to be held at BlizzCon is for the October edition, so there is still hope for this world-ending scenario to occur...
On August 17 2011 14:37 Magic1264 wrote: I actually didn't like how they did the Korean invites. They make the best players from each region play each other in a very short, very volatile double elim tourney, where the best player of the region isn't necessarily going to grab the invite.
Yet for the Koreans, which is an INCREDIBLY deep talent pool, they just go ahead and pluck the top two players from the rankings of a very different tourney than the blizzard invitationals.
Its not necessarily about NesTea and MVP being very good players, but put them up against each other in several best of threes against 6 other of the best Korean players, you could end up with a different invite combination than NesTea/MVP (hell, mvp/nestea could very well have eliminated one another).
Blame it on the fact that no other tournament is run as frequently with a system of points given to each player. Statistically speaking, based on the GSL point totals Nestea and MVP SHOULD have won the qualifiers anyway (barring no rediculous upsets or them facing eachother prior). If the rest of the world had any uniform tournament point system then there probably wouldn't be any "qualfiers" and all the invitationals would simply be as "unimportant" as the Korean one.
If it was about finding the best player in each region, the EU and NA invitationals were a sore misrepresentation and hardly holds a candle to the GSL in terms of measuring the "best player."
I am not taking anything away from MVP or NesTea. I'm a big fan of each player, and I would be hard pressed to not call them among the top, if not the top players in the world.
But the Blizzard invitationals had this very "any given Sunday" feel to them. For instance, for the NA region, I don't think you could make the same argument that Select/Sheth being the best players in NA that you could for Nestea/MVP. In fact, I think the skill gap between a player like Huk is just as large from Select/Sheth than it is for NesTea and any other player.
What the invitational brought is a volatility for determining the best player in the region, and not simply going off the performance history of the player. Now MVP/NesTea are extremely good players, but do I think that someone like Polt, MKP or MC could possibly steal a Bo3 series from them, hell ya I do. I just feel they should have kept the same standard the Korean players, much like all of the other regions.
In my opinion, the title is misleading - they are not the korean invites but rather the GSL invites. It was entirely possible that the top 2 GSL rankings were foreigners (although, obviously unlikely).
And yes, as you mentioned, it is different from the KR region invites.
On August 17 2011 15:38 Azzur wrote: In my opinion, the title is misleading - they are not the korean invites but rather the GSL invites. It was entirely possible that the top 2 GSL rankings were foreigners.
And yes, as you mentioned, it is different from the KR region ivites.
I agree with you in the sense that the top 2 GSL rankings could have been foreigners, but that would still mean they were Korean region invites. I thought omitting the word "region" was fairly unambiguous in context. To emphasise: the Korean region invites to BlizzCon are the top 2 GSL ranked players, as this is how Blizzard stated they would select said invites.
Damn, IM is so damn good, I wish they took the team league more serious. Nestea and MVP both 1 and 2 with a good lead no less. I bet Losira isn't too far off too.
On August 17 2011 15:38 Azzur wrote: In my opinion, the title is misleading - they are not the korean invites but rather the GSL invites. It was entirely possible that the top 2 GSL rankings were foreigners.
And yes, as you mentioned, it is different from the KR region ivites.
I agree with you in the sense that the top 2 GSL rankings could have been foreigners, but that would still mean they were Korean region invites. I thought omitting the word "region" was fairly unambiguous in context. To emphasise: the Korean region invites to BlizzCon are the top 2 GSL ranked players, as this is how Blizzard stated they would select said invites.
But if I'm not mistaken, there is going to be a KR region tournament (similar to the ones in NA/EU/LA/CN) to determine who gets the blizzcon spot?
EDIT: Ok, I see what you mean. You omited the "region" in the title to imply that it's not the KR invitational tournament.
On August 17 2011 15:38 Azzur wrote: In my opinion, the title is misleading - they are not the korean invites but rather the GSL invites. It was entirely possible that the top 2 GSL rankings were foreigners.
And yes, as you mentioned, it is different from the KR region ivites.
I agree with you in the sense that the top 2 GSL rankings could have been foreigners, but that would still mean they were Korean region invites. I thought omitting the word "region" was fairly unambiguous in context. To emphasise: the Korean region invites to BlizzCon are the top 2 GSL ranked players, as this is how Blizzard stated they would select said invites.
But if I'm not mistaken, there is going to be a KR region tournament (similar to the ones in NA/EU/LA/CN) to determine who gets the blizzcon spot?
As mentioned in the OP, the tournament exists but has nothing to do with BlizzCon invites. It makes me wonder why they have the tournament in the first place :-S
On August 17 2011 15:38 Azzur wrote: In my opinion, the title is misleading - they are not the korean invites but rather the GSL invites. It was entirely possible that the top 2 GSL rankings were foreigners.
And yes, as you mentioned, it is different from the KR region ivites.
I agree with you in the sense that the top 2 GSL rankings could have been foreigners, but that would still mean they were Korean region invites. I thought omitting the word "region" was fairly unambiguous in context. To emphasise: the Korean region invites to BlizzCon are the top 2 GSL ranked players, as this is how Blizzard stated they would select said invites.
But if I'm not mistaken, there is going to be a KR region tournament (similar to the ones in NA/EU/LA/CN) to determine who gets the blizzcon spot?
As mentioned in the OP, the tournament exists but has nothing to do with BlizzCon invites. It makes me wonder why they have the tournament in the first place :-S
I have a feeling that the KR invitational tournament will grant BlizzCon spots.
Ahh I really think they should have thrown MC in there as well. He has had a lot of success in foreign events as well. Either way, I really like MVP and Nestea so it is great to see both of them going!
On August 17 2011 15:38 Azzur wrote: In my opinion, the title is misleading - they are not the korean invites but rather the GSL invites. It was entirely possible that the top 2 GSL rankings were foreigners.
And yes, as you mentioned, it is different from the KR region ivites.
I agree with you in the sense that the top 2 GSL rankings could have been foreigners, but that would still mean they were Korean region invites. I thought omitting the word "region" was fairly unambiguous in context. To emphasise: the Korean region invites to BlizzCon are the top 2 GSL ranked players, as this is how Blizzard stated they would select said invites.
But if I'm not mistaken, there is going to be a KR region tournament (similar to the ones in NA/EU/LA/CN) to determine who gets the blizzcon spot?
As mentioned in the OP, the tournament exists but has nothing to do with BlizzCon invites. It makes me wonder why they have the tournament in the first place :-S
I have a feeling that the KR invitational tournament will grant BlizzCon spots.
The Korean invitational tournament is only 10 days away if it goes according to schedule, but in Korea there has been no publicity for it whatsoever, so I'm not sure what's up with that :-S And 2 spots are all Korea gets: it is known that each region gets exactly 2 invites for a total of 16 players in the global invitational. With Blizzard confirming NesTea and Mvp as the invites, there will be no other invites from the Korean region.
On August 17 2011 15:38 Azzur wrote: In my opinion, the title is misleading - they are not the korean invites but rather the GSL invites. It was entirely possible that the top 2 GSL rankings were foreigners.
And yes, as you mentioned, it is different from the KR region ivites.
I agree with you in the sense that the top 2 GSL rankings could have been foreigners, but that would still mean they were Korean region invites. I thought omitting the word "region" was fairly unambiguous in context. To emphasise: the Korean region invites to BlizzCon are the top 2 GSL ranked players, as this is how Blizzard stated they would select said invites.
But if I'm not mistaken, there is going to be a KR region tournament (similar to the ones in NA/EU/LA/CN) to determine who gets the blizzcon spot?
As mentioned in the OP, the tournament exists but has nothing to do with BlizzCon invites. It makes me wonder why they have the tournament in the first place :-S
I have a feeling that the KR invitational tournament will grant BlizzCon spots.
The Korean invitational tournament is only 10 days away if it goes according to schedule, but in Korea there has been no publicity for it whatsoever, so I'm not sure what's up with that :-S And 2 spots are all Korea gets: it is known that each region gets exactly 2 invites for a total of 16 players in the global invitational. With Blizzard confirming NesTea and Mvp as the invites, there will be no other invites from the Korean region.
I had a look at the liquipedia and the 8 regions: NA, EU, LA, CN, KR, RU, SEA, TW are the ones going to be represented.
Yeah, a bit weird to have a KR invitational but invite the top 2 GSL as the KR representatives.
On August 17 2011 15:38 Azzur wrote: In my opinion, the title is misleading - they are not the korean invites but rather the GSL invites. It was entirely possible that the top 2 GSL rankings were foreigners.
And yes, as you mentioned, it is different from the KR region ivites.
I agree with you in the sense that the top 2 GSL rankings could have been foreigners, but that would still mean they were Korean region invites. I thought omitting the word "region" was fairly unambiguous in context. To emphasise: the Korean region invites to BlizzCon are the top 2 GSL ranked players, as this is how Blizzard stated they would select said invites.
But if I'm not mistaken, there is going to be a KR region tournament (similar to the ones in NA/EU/LA/CN) to determine who gets the blizzcon spot?
As mentioned in the OP, the tournament exists but has nothing to do with BlizzCon invites. It makes me wonder why they have the tournament in the first place :-S
I have a feeling that the KR invitational tournament will grant BlizzCon spots.
The Korean invitational tournament is only 10 days away if it goes according to schedule, but in Korea there has been no publicity for it whatsoever, so I'm not sure what's up with that :-S And 2 spots are all Korea gets: it is known that each region gets exactly 2 invites for a total of 16 players in the global invitational. With Blizzard confirming NesTea and Mvp as the invites, there will be no other invites from the Korean region.
I had a look at the liquipedia and the 8 regions: NA, EU, LA, CN, KR, RU, SEA, TW are the ones going to be represented.
Yeah, a bit weird to have a KR invitational but invite the top 2 GSL as the KR representatives.
That's exactly what I'm thinking: why have the invitational if invites are not at stake? Especially given that they were planning to select the Korean invites based on points all along . . .
quote: tl;dr: NesTea and Mvp are going to BlizzCon 2011. Nobody else from the Korean region is (this includes Genius, the defending champion *sniff*). Enjoy, and discuss.
So the Korean BattleNet Invite is totally obsolete?
Well I think we know who are going to win. Reminds me of good ol' BW times with Flashes & Bisus and Jaedongs fighting for titles in international events.
On August 17 2011 16:25 bode927 wrote: Arguably, the 2 best, most consistent, most popular players got invited. Can't say that happened in NA.
I don't know that this is the fairest way to select players (for other top korean pros), but I can't say I hate these selections either.
Cmon guys, its MVP and Nestea... that shit is like... cream of the crop.
Well with the best people stuck in GSL all the time, they can't really hold any qualifier tournaments either. So it's just easier to invite the players who are thought as the best at the moment.
On August 17 2011 16:25 bode927 wrote: Arguably, the 2 best, most consistent, most popular players got invited. Can't say that happened in NA.
I don't know that this is the fairest way to select players (for other top korean pros), but I can't say I hate these selections either.
Cmon guys, its MVP and Nestea... that shit is like... cream of the crop.
MVP isn't the most consistent...Also MC is more popular than both of them combined.
This seems like a somewhat pointless debate... but I thought the most consistent players were the ones with the most GSL rank points?
Also, MC is popular for his antics and play, but Nestea and MVP have slightly better results, especially recently. If players were invited based mostly on antics, then heck... auto invite Destiny and Incontrol
On August 17 2011 16:25 bode927 wrote: Arguably, the 2 best, most consistent, most popular players got invited. Can't say that happened in NA.
I don't know that this is the fairest way to select players (for other top korean pros), but I can't say I hate these selections either.
Cmon guys, its MVP and Nestea... that shit is like... cream of the crop.
MVP isn't the most consistent...Also MC is more popular than both of them combined.
This seems like a somewhat pointless debate... but I thought the most consistent players were the ones with the most GSL rank points?
Also, MC is popular for his antics and play, but Nestea and MVP have slightly better results, especially recently. If players were invited based mostly on antics, then heck... auto invite Destiny and Incontrol
That's not what the guy I responded to said. He said arguably the 2 most popular. That simply isn't true, not arguing that MC should've been invited instead. MVP went out really early last 2 GSLs, I wouldn't call that consistent.
Theres going to be a 3rd Korean at blizzcon. He resides in a little city on the west coast that i happen to adore. The city is.. Seattle, Washington. Many know it as a Grunge town. Soon enough.. they will come to know it as.. SeleCT's TOWN!!! RAWRRR
MVP and Nestea will no doubt take 1/2 at blizzcon. There is just no way any foreigners will even come close to them. I will be cheering on SeleCT and Ret and hopefully they can make atleast the semis/top4
On August 17 2011 16:25 bode927 wrote: Arguably, the 2 best, most consistent, most popular players got invited. Can't say that happened in NA.
I don't know that this is the fairest way to select players (for other top korean pros), but I can't say I hate these selections either.
Cmon guys, its MVP and Nestea... that shit is like... cream of the crop.
MVP isn't the most consistent...Also MC is more popular than both of them combined.
This seems like a somewhat pointless debate... but I thought the most consistent players were the ones with the most GSL rank points?
Also, MC is popular for his antics and play, but Nestea and MVP have slightly better results, especially recently. If players were invited based mostly on antics, then heck... auto invite Destiny and Incontrol
Tell me how MVP has had slightly better results than MC. They both have 2 GSL championships (though one of MVP's is arguably a slightly easier championship since it didn't have the ridiculous group stages that claim so many amazing players early on, nor did it have as many rounds as MC's first championship). MC got eliminated early this season. MVP got eliminated early last season. Both are somewhat inconsistent, sometimes amazing, sometimes falling apart.
On August 17 2011 16:25 bode927 wrote: Arguably, the 2 best, most consistent, most popular players got invited. Can't say that happened in NA.
I don't know that this is the fairest way to select players (for other top korean pros), but I can't say I hate these selections either.
Cmon guys, its MVP and Nestea... that shit is like... cream of the crop.
MVP isn't the most consistent...Also MC is more popular than both of them combined.
This seems like a somewhat pointless debate... but I thought the most consistent players were the ones with the most GSL rank points?
Also, MC is popular for his antics and play, but Nestea and MVP have slightly better results, especially recently. If players were invited based mostly on antics, then heck... auto invite Destiny and Incontrol
Tell me how MVP has had slightly better results than MC. They both have 2 GSL championships (though one of MVP's is arguably a slightly easier championship since it didn't have the ridiculous group stages that claim so many amazing players early on, nor did it have as many rounds as MC's first championship). MC got eliminated early this season. MVP got eliminated early last season. Both are somewhat inconsistent, sometimes amazing, sometimes falling apart.
Well he has more GSL points for one. I mean they are directly related to your performance.
On August 17 2011 16:20 JustPassingBy wrote: quote: tl;dr: NesTea and Mvp are going to BlizzCon 2011. Nobody else from the Korean region is (this includes Genius, the defending champion *sniff*). Enjoy, and discuss.
So the Korean BattleNet Invite is totally obsolete?
In terms of BlizzCon invites, absolutely yes. In fact, I highly doubt many in Korea know it even exists (publicity for it = 0)
On August 17 2011 16:25 bode927 wrote: Arguably, the 2 best, most consistent, most popular players got invited. Can't say that happened in NA.
I don't know that this is the fairest way to select players (for other top korean pros), but I can't say I hate these selections either.
Cmon guys, its MVP and Nestea... that shit is like... cream of the crop.
MVP isn't the most consistent...Also MC is more popular than both of them combined.
This seems like a somewhat pointless debate... but I thought the most consistent players were the ones with the most GSL rank points?
Also, MC is popular for his antics and play, but Nestea and MVP have slightly better results, especially recently. If players were invited based mostly on antics, then heck... auto invite Destiny and Incontrol
Tell me how MVP has had slightly better results than MC. They both have 2 GSL championships (though one of MVP's is arguably a slightly easier championship since it didn't have the ridiculous group stages that claim so many amazing players early on, nor did it have as many rounds as MC's first championship). MC got eliminated early this season. MVP got eliminated early last season. Both are somewhat inconsistent, sometimes amazing, sometimes falling apart.
Well he has more GSL points for one. I mean they are directly related to your performance.
Because MC's open season 3 win doesnt count. otherwise he would have more.(which I think is kinda stupid tbh, just cause it shifted to Code S)
The Korean Battle.Net invitational is probably just for WoW. It's listed as one day after all. Then again since I haven't heard anything about russian server qualifiers, there are two spots where I don't know will come from. Small possibility that Blizz is Korean bias and opens another two spots for Koreans to compete for.
On August 17 2011 16:25 bode927 wrote: Arguably, the 2 best, most consistent, most popular players got invited. Can't say that happened in NA.
I don't know that this is the fairest way to select players (for other top korean pros), but I can't say I hate these selections either.
Cmon guys, its MVP and Nestea... that shit is like... cream of the crop.
MVP isn't the most consistent...Also MC is more popular than both of them combined.
MC is popular but you underestimate the popularity of NesTea.
I feel nestea's popularity seems underwhelming because his lack of exposure. MC has been to so many foreign events and Nestea hasn't been to a single one (really hope this changes!)
Nestea only plays in GSL and him appearing in the GSTL is a rarity as well. When he does play though, people love him!
MC is in a massive slump. As a fan I'm glad he's not going until game improves, nestea and mvp are at the top of their game and deserve to represent Korea.
On August 17 2011 16:25 bode927 wrote: Arguably, the 2 best, most consistent, most popular players got invited. Can't say that happened in NA.
I don't know that this is the fairest way to select players (for other top korean pros), but I can't say I hate these selections either.
Cmon guys, its MVP and Nestea... that shit is like... cream of the crop.
MVP isn't the most consistent...Also MC is more popular than both of them combined.
MC is popular but you underestimate the popularity of NesTea.
I feel nestea's popularity seems underwhelming because his lack of exposure. MC has been to so many foreign events and Nestea hasn't been to a single one (really hope this changes!)
Nestea only plays in GSL and him appearing in the GSTL is a rarity as well. When he does play though, people love him!
It's partly lack of exposure, partly his personality. NesTea doesn't interact with the community, and from what I hear, doesn't really like to interact with the community much. When he does show up on camera, he's always composed and (generally) respectful, which to some people reads as "boring." Meanwhile, MC has a ton of exposure through foreign events, and he's an attention whore who knows how to get the crowd up on its feet (and I mean this with all possible respect, as I think he's an awesome and hilarious guy).
On August 17 2011 17:19 tdt wrote: MC is in a massive slump. As a fan I'm glad he's not going until game improves, nestea and mvp are at the top of their game and deserve to represent Korea.
Lets keep it real here. That's not happening until a patch. MC's slump is greatly overrated if you look at his play. Nothing has looked especially poor our out of place. When MVP or Jinro were in a run of bad form, it was obvious. That is not true for MC.
Kinda disappointed it's only 2 Korean invites though mainly because I'd want a toss addition. Super excited to see NesTea win blizcon. Gah. ;_; kinda sad dimaga didn't get a chance at the euro qualifiers.
On August 17 2011 16:25 bode927 wrote: Arguably, the 2 best, most consistent, most popular players got invited. Can't say that happened in NA.
I don't know that this is the fairest way to select players (for other top korean pros), but I can't say I hate these selections either.
Cmon guys, its MVP and Nestea... that shit is like... cream of the crop.
MVP isn't the most consistent...Also MC is more popular than both of them combined.
This seems like a somewhat pointless debate... but I thought the most consistent players were the ones with the most GSL rank points?
Also, MC is popular for his antics and play, but Nestea and MVP have slightly better results, especially recently. If players were invited based mostly on antics, then heck... auto invite Destiny and Incontrol
Tell me how MVP has had slightly better results than MC. They both have 2 GSL championships (though one of MVP's is arguably a slightly easier championship since it didn't have the ridiculous group stages that claim so many amazing players early on, nor did it have as many rounds as MC's first championship). MC got eliminated early this season. MVP got eliminated early last season. Both are somewhat inconsistent, sometimes amazing, sometimes falling apart.
Well he has more GSL points for one. I mean they are directly related to your performance.
Because MC's open season 3 win doesnt count. otherwise he would have more.(which I think is kinda stupid tbh, just cause it shifted to Code S)
This. You can't use GSL points as your objective meter for achievements when the way the points are determined is flawed. MVP is a more accomplished player than MC on paper simply because they chose to not count the open seasons in determining points. If they did choose to count those, I'm pretty sure MC would beat out MVP. Obviously, things didn't work out that way and MC's first GSL win isn't being counted for him, but objectivity should account for clear inconsistencies in how the point system works, and a win in the GSL before Code S is virtually just as good as any other GSL win.
On August 17 2011 14:35 ch33psh33p wrote: Nestea Vs Mvp finals at Blizzcon.
Nestea V Mvp Gsl finals in Blizzcon.
100% happening.
i feel like nestea would easily win both.
hardly.. did you see Nestea vs MMA?
Just a bo1? Hell, MVP got his ass handed to him by zenio last season. Not long after that, MVP was rocking drg at mlg. Can't really gather much from a single match.
Only 2 players from Korea is a disappointment considering how many good players there are there =( Now Nestea and MVP will just bulldoze through the tournament with no opposition.
DISAPPOINTING. Why? Because Genius doesn't get to defend his title. Thats SO STUPID. Thats like not inviting thorzain or naniwa to TSL4. And NO MC T_T Other than that, i love Nestea and MVP, and happy for that.
On August 17 2011 14:35 ch33psh33p wrote: Nestea Vs Mvp finals at Blizzcon.
Nestea V Mvp Gsl finals in Blizzcon.
100% happening.
i feel like nestea would easily win both.
hardly.. did you see Nestea vs MMA?
Just a bo1? Hell, MVP got his ass handed to him by zenio last season. Not long after that, MVP was rocking drg at mlg. Can't really gather much from a single match.
The difference is that MVP's TvZ has always been amazing. Meanwhile, NesTea has historically always been very mortal in ZvT. Don't forget that TOP beat him out in the Super Tournament, and while TOP is good, his TvZ is not as good as MVP's.
I mean, NesTea's amazing, that's for sure. But I just don't think that any Zerg can actually win against MVP in a BO5 or BO7, especially if he has time to prepare. (To be honest, I don't know if any Zerg can win against MMA in a BO5 or BO7 either, with the possible exception of DRG.) DRG has amazing ZvT - probably the best ZvT out there at the moment - and MVP just absolutely wiped the floor with him at MLG.
Someone explain this to me please. Blizzcon is a 16man tournament right. And they have 8 qualifiers, with top 2 of each qualifier getting invited to Blizzcon. So where do Nestea and MVP fit in in the picture?
EDIT: Ok read the entire thing now.. So the Korean invitational will not result in an invite to Blizzcon? Weird id say
On August 17 2011 21:17 arQ wrote: Someone explain this to me please. Blizzcon is a 16man tournament right. And they have 8 qualifiers, with top 2 of each qualifier getting invited to Blizzcon. So where do Nestea and MVP fit in in the picture?
They are the final bosses for the winner.
. . .
No seriously, the korean qualifiers do not grant invites
On August 17 2011 18:10 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Yea it's customary to invite the champ to defend his title and all, but does anyone here really think Genius has a chance? lol
There are many more Koreans I'd rather see than him. Even some foreigners.
He has a better chance than most of the invites if you ask me.
On August 17 2011 18:10 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Yea it's customary to invite the champ to defend his title and all, but does anyone here really think Genius has a chance? lol
There are many more Koreans I'd rather see than him. Even some foreigners.
He has a better chance than most of the invites if you ask me.
On August 17 2011 18:10 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Yea it's customary to invite the champ to defend his title and all, but does anyone here really think Genius has a chance? lol
There are many more Koreans I'd rather see than him. Even some foreigners.
He has a better chance than most of the invites if you ask me.
This is going to be the most epic tournament ever...and yeah, probably going to be these two guys in the finals, though I would love if a foreigner could knock them out
On August 17 2011 16:25 bode927 wrote: Arguably, the 2 best, most consistent, most popular players got invited. Can't say that happened in NA.
I don't know that this is the fairest way to select players (for other top korean pros), but I can't say I hate these selections either.
Cmon guys, its MVP and Nestea... that shit is like... cream of the crop.
MVP isn't the most consistent...Also MC is more popular than both of them combined.
This seems like a somewhat pointless debate... but I thought the most consistent players were the ones with the most GSL rank points?
Also, MC is popular for his antics and play, but Nestea and MVP have slightly better results, especially recently. If players were invited based mostly on antics, then heck... auto invite Destiny and Incontrol
Tell me how MVP has had slightly better results than MC. They both have 2 GSL championships (though one of MVP's is arguably a slightly easier championship since it didn't have the ridiculous group stages that claim so many amazing players early on, nor did it have as many rounds as MC's first championship). MC got eliminated early this season. MVP got eliminated early last season. Both are somewhat inconsistent, sometimes amazing, sometimes falling apart.
Well he has more GSL points for one. I mean they are directly related to your performance.
Because MC's open season 3 win doesnt count. otherwise he would have more.(which I think is kinda stupid tbh, just cause it shifted to Code S)
This. You can't use GSL points as your objective meter for achievements when the way the points are determined is flawed. MVP is a more accomplished player than MC on paper simply because they chose to not count the open seasons in determining points. If they did choose to count those, I'm pretty sure MC would beat out MVP. Obviously, things didn't work out that way and MC's first GSL win isn't being counted for him, but objectivity should account for clear inconsistencies in how the point system works, and a win in the GSL before Code S is virtually just as good as any other GSL win.
The Open Seasons don't count because they happened last year.
On August 17 2011 23:51 marttorn wrote: No genuine response to this other than
AAAAAAWWW YEEEAHHHHH
Nestea better be damn glad GoOdy isn't at Blizzcon though. Damn straight.
Nestea better be glad it's not an online tournament where he has to play with lag.
Soooo..... the rest of the world is playing for 3rd? Haha I kid but that's actually probably not too far from the truth. Either way it's going to be an amazing event to watch!
So there isn't a Korean Invitational? Or if there is it doesn't matter towards the Blizzcon invites? Even though MVP and Nestea are the obvious invites I don't understand why they're doing it this way :/
Great invites from Blizzard! MVP isn't unbeatable nor is Nestea. Nestea did lose a game to MMA in the GSL this season so it'll be interesting to see what the final bracket will be looking like but I still have to give the whole thing to Nestea. Second place though could be anyone i'm sure everyone will be trying very hard and it'll be exciting to see how much Naniwa has improved by blizzcon.
Two players both from the same team without even giving the others a chance to compete for it is kinda lame to be honest. I get the GSL ranking reasoning, but if Blizzard has already been so obscure about NA/EU invite criteria, they could at the very least have organized a tournament.
Now they have some dead end tournament instead unlike every other region. -_-
Either way, I still trust Ret to smash through this. <3
NesTea has said that he'd love to play in foriegn LAN tournaments, so I'm sure he'll work hard to impress - which has to be pretty damn scary for everyone else playing.
Can't wait to see how the foriegners try and handle him though, if he keeps his form up, I can just see him blowing through everyone....
On August 17 2011 14:34 echO [W] wrote: What if they both end up at the GSL finals IN Blizzcon.
They can't, they meet in the round of 16
GSL September/October Finals will be at Blizzcon. (This season's final standings set who goes).
The interesting thing, since MC picked MVP so he could have a shot at going to Blizzcon, is that MC could still end up going.
He just needs Polt to not make the final; for Polt, Nada or July to win GSL August; and for either Nestea or MVP to be in the GSL September/October Finals (as they'd likely drop the Blizzcon invite to win the finals of the GSL).
On August 17 2011 14:34 echO [W] wrote: What if they both end up at the GSL finals IN Blizzcon.
They can't, they meet in the round of 16
GSL September/October Finals will be at Blizzcon. (This season's final standings set who goes).
The interesting thing, since MC picked MVP so he could have a shot at going to Blizzcon, is that MC could still end up going.
He just needs Polt to not make the final; for Polt, Nada or July to win GSL August; and for either Nestea or MVP to be in the GSL September/October Finals (as they'd likely drop the Blizzcon invite to win the finals of the GSL).
So, we could still see him at Blizzcon.
They don't have to drop the Blizzcon invite to go to the October Finals... it's going to be AT blizzcon...
On August 17 2011 14:35 ch33psh33p wrote: Nestea Vs Mvp finals at Blizzcon.
Nestea V Mvp Gsl finals in Blizzcon.
100% happening.
i feel like nestea would easily win both.
I actually don't know about that, MVP has been looking super solid in TvZ lately. And Nestea looks really abusable in ZvT as MMA handed it to him last week.
On August 17 2011 14:34 echO [W] wrote: What if they both end up at the GSL finals IN Blizzcon.
They can't, they meet in the round of 16
GSL September/October Finals will be at Blizzcon. (This season's final standings set who goes).
The interesting thing, since MC picked MVP so he could have a shot at going to Blizzcon, is that MC could still end up going.
He just needs Polt to not make the final; for Polt, Nada or July to win GSL August; and for either Nestea or MVP to be in the GSL September/October Finals (as they'd likely drop the Blizzcon invite to win the finals of the GSL).
So, we could still see him at Blizzcon.
....woops, I completely missed the point.
But I really doubt one of them would drop one tournament for the other. They're definitely players capable of doing both, and doing them damn well. (Lots of money too.)
On August 17 2011 14:35 ch33psh33p wrote: Nestea Vs Mvp finals at Blizzcon.
Nestea V Mvp Gsl finals in Blizzcon.
100% happening.
i feel like nestea would easily win both.
I'm a zerg player and I really like NesTea but to tell the truth I think MVP has the upper hand in their matchup and might even end nestea's gls run this august:D
That is awesome. Is this going to be NesTea's first over seas event? Exciting news indeed. With DRG coming back for another MLG and NesTea finally coming (for Blizzcon), I am pumped up. My two favorite players and two of the top three zergs in the world, IMO. I wish IdrA had made it to Blizzcon but at least he will still be at several MLGs before going to Korea sometime in November (which he mentioned on SotG last night, meaning later than HuK and Puma..they are moving to the EG Korea house some time in October). I am glad my 100th post is about these awesome zergs .
I think Nestea will be pleasantly suprised by the cheer he will get. Every korean progamer has said so when coming to the EU/US and Nestea is considered the best at the moment. Will be cool.
This is so baller though, he finally gets to play at an overseas tournament. He's going to be so excited to go to Blizzcon, my only concern is that he might get an expectation that all foreign tournaments are going to be like Blizzcon.
Hmm 2 From each region seem fair. But from viewer point It would be much better off If Korean get like 4 slots more from unimpressive regions like LA, RU, TW, SEA. Not to be racist, I am from SEA original myself.
The skill gap is so far away even from GSL compared to active regions like EU/NA. Next year blizzcon should invite follow ranking point from this year event, like Football Champions League, Big Nation have higher point based on their past results thus having more slots.
Edit@ Forgot to mention Genius, why cant he defend his title. He deserve it.
On August 17 2011 14:37 Magic1264 wrote: I actually didn't like how they did the Korean invites. They make the best players from each region play each other in a very short, very volatile double elim tourney, where the best player of the region isn't necessarily going to grab the invite.
Yet for the Koreans, which is an INCREDIBLY deep talent pool, they just go ahead and pluck the top two players from the rankings of a very different tourney than the blizzard invitationals.
Its not necessarily about NesTea and MVP being very good players, but put them up against each other in several best of threes against 6 other of the best Korean players, you could end up with a different invite combination than NesTea/MVP (hell, mvp/nestea could very well have eliminated one another).
Blame it on the fact that no other tournament is run as frequently with a system of points given to each player. Statistically speaking, based on the GSL point totals Nestea and MVP SHOULD have won the qualifiers anyway (barring no rediculous upsets or them facing eachother prior). If the rest of the world had any uniform tournament point system then there probably wouldn't be any "qualfiers" and all the invitationals would simply be as "unimportant" as the Korean one.
If it was about finding the best player in each region, the EU and NA invitationals were a sore misrepresentation and hardly holds a candle to the GSL in terms of measuring the "best player."
I am not taking anything away from MVP or NesTea. I'm a big fan of each player, and I would be hard pressed to not call them among the top, if not the top players in the world.
But the Blizzard invitationals had this very "any given Sunday" feel to them. For instance, for the NA region, I don't think you could make the same argument that Select/Sheth being the best players in NA that you could for Nestea/MVP. In fact, I think the skill gap between a player like Huk is just as large from Select/Sheth than it is for NesTea and any other player.
What the invitational brought is a volatility for determining the best player in the region, and not simply going off the performance history of the player. Now MVP/NesTea are extremely good players, but do I think that someone like Polt, MKP or MC could possibly steal a Bo3 series from them, hell ya I do. I just feel they should have kept the same standard the Korean players, much like all of the other regions.
Everything you're saying is true, but that's exactly my point. The fact that the NA/Eu(well this one may actually have the 2 best players in europe)/LA/ect invites are not necessarily the best in their region is the fault of a lack of point system (such as the GSL points system), Yes the various invitationals were a sore misrepresentation of the "best player" (although again Eu can prolly be debated), its only because there was no unified point system that the "best players" from the other regions weren't invited.
Its not Blizzard's fault no where other than Korea has a point system (besides MLG which is skewed based on a variety of factors)
On August 17 2011 22:02 MattBarry wrote: MVP has only won 1 gsl. Mlg had more Koreans than GSLWC.
How is that relevant? GSLWC had the best koreans and thats what matters. He has 2 GSL titles, regardless of how hard each one was. MVP also has the second best GSL run after Nestea. Nestea won without dropping any map, MVP won dropping only a single map (To Nestea). MVP did have a significantly harder run that season than Nestea, in terms of opponents.
On August 17 2011 22:02 MattBarry wrote: MVP has only won 1 gsl. Mlg had more Koreans than GSLWC.
Get your facts straight before you post something.
Think what he's getting at is MVP's 2nd championship was the world championship which isn't the same as a regular season of the gsl.
I kind of agree. I see him as more like 1 1/2 time gsl champ. GSLWC began at a ro16, with no group stage, and half code-S Koreans (not all of which were the best). But whatever, we all know MVP is gsl champion material.
On August 18 2011 03:48 minhbq299 wrote: Hmm 2 From each region seem fair. But from viewer point It would be much better off If Korean get like 4 slots more from unimpressive regions like LA, RU, TW, SEA. Not to be racist, I am from SEA original myself.
The skill gap is so far away even from GSL compared to active regions like EU/NA. Next year blizzcon should invite follow ranking point from this year event, like Football Champions League, Big Nation have higher point based on their past results thus having more slots.
Edit@ Forgot to mention Genius, why cant he defend his title. He deserve it.
I agree. Will be kind of sad to see the LA invites when you compare them to the hundreds of KR players that are better than them.
Dont get so sure about the double Korean finals guys. Nani can beat MVP, and ret can take out Nestea. Currently european ZvZ level is sick high. Also I heard that those chinese players are beasty.
On August 18 2011 04:24 Sea_Food wrote: Dont get so sure about the double Korean finals guys. Nani can beat MVP, and ret can take out Nestea. Currently european ZvZ level is sick high. Also I heard that those chinese players are beasty.
blizzard actually managed to invite the correct people in this one. Thank you for trusting the GSL ranking system blizzard, this is shaping up to be an EPIC tournament.
On August 18 2011 04:24 Sea_Food wrote: Dont get so sure about the double Korean finals guys. Nani can beat MVP, and ret can take out Nestea. Currently european ZvZ level is sick high. Also I heard that those chinese players are beasty.
Ret can take out NesTea, wut?
Hmm let me think really quick about who can beat Nestea... Well probably a ZERG! That makes sense !!
Kinda strange that Genius didn't get an invite seeing how he is the defending champion, but MVP and NesTea are two great players that will make this event even better.
While I love that those two are coming, me, as many others, feel that there really should only be coming one person from the unimpressive regions so the distribution would be like:
KR: 4 (with one of those being the defending champion of course...) NA: 3 EU: 3 LA: 1 RU: 1 TW: 1 SEA: 1
This may sound blunt, but being king of the kindergarten doesn't mean you can compete with the best of the best. I'd love to be proven wrong though and that one of the 'lesser' regions proceeds to win everything with a dazzling display of skill.
It is a bit strange that they devide in Europe and Russia regions. Which countrys belong to Russia regions? I know that Whitra and Dimaga participated for Ru in the last Blizzcon, but Whitera was part of the eu invitational this year, so he would have represented the eu. Maybe there are no Russia slots this year?
The BlizzCon tournament is gonna have the 2 qualified players from NA/LA/EU and Korea (hence the tournament the 27. August) PLUS 2 korean invites? As in 4 koreans in total+2 from each of the other regions qualifiers? Or am i missing something?
This is sick, MVP vs Nestea is happening next week, it's going to happen in Blizzcon too! Will Nestea finally be able to triumph over MVP, or will MVP once again tear apart Nestea? IM FTW!
Just hope nestea gets a draw against T players! Hell, I remember a few days ago watching kawaiirice play, he drew nestea on KR and pretty much just controlled the entire game and won in easy fashion.
I always like my terran players to knock out legends/kings of other races
2 certain IM players are getting paaaaiiiid! =) Seriously, very excited about the invites. I hope, Blizz won't mess up the bracket, so these 2 can meet in the finals.
On August 18 2011 04:46 iAmJeffReY wrote: Just hope nestea gets a draw against T players! Hell, I remember a few days ago watching kawaiirice play, he drew nestea on KR and pretty much just controlled the entire game and won in easy fashion.
I always like my terran players to knock out legends/kings of other races
Haha, you know Nestea doesn't play ladder seriously. From what I read, it was imbalanced positions anyways, so Nestea just blindly went all-in to move onto the next game.
On August 17 2011 22:02 MattBarry wrote: MVP has only won 1 gsl. Mlg had more Koreans than GSLWC.
How is that relevant? GSLWC had the best koreans and thats what matters. He has 2 GSL titles, regardless of how hard each one was. MVP also has the second best GSL run after Nestea. Nestea won without dropping any map, MVP won dropping only a single map (To Nestea). MVP did have a significantly harder run that season than Nestea, in terms of opponents.
MVP is the best Terran in the world. He's absolutely ridiculously good. That doesn't change the fact that GSLWC was only 8 Koreans
On August 17 2011 22:02 MattBarry wrote: MVP has only won 1 gsl. Mlg had more Koreans than GSLWC.
Get your facts straight before you post something.
Think what he's getting at is MVP's 2nd championship was the world championship which isn't the same as a regular season of the gsl.
I kind of agree. I see him as more like 1 1/2 time gsl champ. GSLWC began at a ro16, with no group stage, and half code-S Koreans (not all of which were the best). But whatever, we all know MVP is gsl champion material.
Open seasons were not the same as regular seasons either, and yet everybody is taking them into consideration. I don't see why the WC shouldn't count.
On August 18 2011 04:46 iAmJeffReY wrote: Just hope nestea gets a draw against T players! Hell, I remember a few days ago watching kawaiirice play, he drew nestea on KR and pretty much just controlled the entire game and won in easy fashion.
I always like my terran players to knock out legends/kings of other races
Haha, you know Nestea doesn't play ladder seriously. From what I read, it was imbalanced positions anyways, so Nestea just blindly went all-in to move onto the next game.
I didn't know xelnaga caverns had imba positions. Oh right he wanted the bottom spot? lol
No doubt he doesn't take it 'seriously' but he doesn't openly strive to lose. It was hellions against mass slings and banes. A LOT of banes, very fast speed on them
On August 18 2011 04:46 iAmJeffReY wrote: Just hope nestea gets a draw against T players! Hell, I remember a few days ago watching kawaiirice play, he drew nestea on KR and pretty much just controlled the entire game and won in easy fashion.
I always like my terran players to knock out legends/kings of other races
lol NesTea just plays ladder like they are custom games
On August 18 2011 04:24 Sea_Food wrote: Dont get so sure about the double Korean finals guys. Nani can beat MVP, and ret can take out Nestea. Currently european ZvZ level is sick high. Also I heard that those chinese players are beasty.
Ret can take out NesTea, wut?
Hmm let me think really quick about who can beat Nestea... Well probably a ZERG! That makes sense !!
Trust me. European ZvZ is sick. Nestea aint got nothing on that. You will see...
On August 17 2011 22:02 MattBarry wrote: MVP has only won 1 gsl. Mlg had more Koreans than GSLWC.
Get your facts straight before you post something.
Think what he's getting at is MVP's 2nd championship was the world championship which isn't the same as a regular season of the gsl.
I kind of agree. I see him as more like 1 1/2 time gsl champ. GSLWC began at a ro16, with no group stage, and half code-S Koreans (not all of which were the best). But whatever, we all know MVP is gsl champion material.
Open seasons were not the same as regular seasons either, and yet everybody is taking them into consideration. I don't see why the WC shouldn't count.
Open season at least had ro64 which fills the void of no groups. Not to mention it wasn't only half korean either.
On August 17 2011 16:25 bode927 wrote: Arguably, the 2 best, most consistent, most popular players got invited. Can't say that happened in NA.
I don't know that this is the fairest way to select players (for other top korean pros), but I can't say I hate these selections either.
Cmon guys, its MVP and Nestea... that shit is like... cream of the crop.
MVP isn't the most consistent...Also MC is more popular than both of them combined.
This seems like a somewhat pointless debate... but I thought the most consistent players were the ones with the most GSL rank points?
Also, MC is popular for his antics and play, but Nestea and MVP have slightly better results, especially recently. If players were invited based mostly on antics, then heck... auto invite Destiny and Incontrol
Tell me how MVP has had slightly better results than MC. They both have 2 GSL championships (though one of MVP's is arguably a slightly easier championship since it didn't have the ridiculous group stages that claim so many amazing players early on, nor did it have as many rounds as MC's first championship). MC got eliminated early this season. MVP got eliminated early last season. Both are somewhat inconsistent, sometimes amazing, sometimes falling apart.
Well he has more GSL points for one. I mean they are directly related to your performance.
Because MC's open season 3 win doesnt count. otherwise he would have more.(which I think is kinda stupid tbh, just cause it shifted to Code S)
This. You can't use GSL points as your objective meter for achievements when the way the points are determined is flawed. MVP is a more accomplished player than MC on paper simply because they chose to not count the open seasons in determining points. If they did choose to count those, I'm pretty sure MC would beat out MVP. Obviously, things didn't work out that way and MC's first GSL win isn't being counted for him, but objectivity should account for clear inconsistencies in how the point system works, and a win in the GSL before Code S is virtually just as good as any other GSL win.
The Open Seasons don't count because they happened last year.
What's your point? My argument is that the point system simply isn't that accurate because it rather arbitrary discounts a huge achievement for MC (Nestea too, but he's so far ahead in points that it doesn't matter for him either way) simply because it happened last year. I'd love to see a good argument made on why one is justified in discounting the Open seasons in tallying up points that should be indicative of a player's achievements. There's no reason to ignore them other than the arbitrary justification that they happened last year, but just because an achievement happened last year doesn't make it any less meaningful.
On August 18 2011 04:46 iAmJeffReY wrote: Just hope nestea gets a draw against T players! Hell, I remember a few days ago watching kawaiirice play, he drew nestea on KR and pretty much just controlled the entire game and won in easy fashion.
I always like my terran players to knock out legends/kings of other races
lol NesTea just plays ladder like they are custom games
He has a under 50% win rate and he's not even at the top of his masters league... It's hard to make a case that he actually is playing seriously considering his LAN achievements.
On August 17 2011 22:02 MattBarry wrote: MVP has only won 1 gsl. Mlg had more Koreans than GSLWC.
Get your facts straight before you post something.
Think what he's getting at is MVP's 2nd championship was the world championship which isn't the same as a regular season of the gsl.
I kind of agree. I see him as more like 1 1/2 time gsl champ. GSLWC began at a ro16, with no group stage, and half code-S Koreans (not all of which were the best). But whatever, we all know MVP is gsl champion material.
Open seasons were not the same as regular seasons either, and yet everybody is taking them into consideration. I don't see why the WC shouldn't count.
The WC was 2 whole rounds shorter than the Open Season and half of the players were foreigners, all of whom lost to the first Koreans they met except for Dimaga. A better comparison to the Open seasons would be the Super Tournament.
With that said, I'm perfectly happy to count the WC, but when you see people discounting the WC, maybe you'll understand how it feels unfair that the Open seasons are actually completely ignored in the GSL points system. At least the WC is counted in practice -_-;;
On August 18 2011 04:46 iAmJeffReY wrote: Just hope nestea gets a draw against T players! Hell, I remember a few days ago watching kawaiirice play, he drew nestea on KR and pretty much just controlled the entire game and won in easy fashion.
I always like my terran players to knock out legends/kings of other races
Haha, you know Nestea doesn't play ladder seriously. From what I read, it was imbalanced positions anyways, so Nestea just blindly went all-in to move onto the next game.
I didn't know xelnaga caverns had imba positions. Oh right he wanted the bottom spot? lol
No doubt he doesn't take it 'seriously' but he doesn't openly strive to lose. It was hellions against mass slings and banes. A LOT of banes, very fast speed on them
xel naga does have imba positions too bad it's the only position it has It's irrelevant anyway, anyone can beat Nestea on ladder, he doesnt take it seriously and very often offraces. Same for MVP. Come tournament match, no one wants to face him, not matter how much they beat him in ladder.
MVP had tougher opponents at MLG than GSLWC. I'm not trying to say he's not skilled, just that he hasn't won 2 GSLs. it sort of diminishes the prestige if you say he did.
On August 18 2011 05:21 MattBarry wrote: MVP had tougher opponents at MLG than GSLWC. I'm not trying to say he's not skilled, just that he hasn't won 2 GSLs. it sort of diminishes the prestige if you say he did.
Who was hard for MVP at MLG? DRG and MMA are the only ones who even remotely come to mind.
On August 18 2011 05:21 MattBarry wrote: MVP had tougher opponents at MLG than GSLWC. I'm not trying to say he's not skilled, just that he hasn't won 2 GSLs. it sort of diminishes the prestige if you say he did.
Who was hard for MVP at MLG? DRG and MMA are the only ones who even remotely come to mind.
What top class player did MVP face at GSLWC other than mkp? San is code b now, huk wasn't the top player he is now, July isn't too great still love him though. Now if mop had won I'd be more inclined to count it since he would have beaten mc and MVP
On August 17 2011 14:35 ch33psh33p wrote: Nestea Vs Mvp finals at Blizzcon.
Nestea V Mvp Gsl finals in Blizzcon.
100% happening.
Nestea plays mvp in round of 16 so actually 1 get eliminated b4 round of 8 so thats kind of impossible.
The GSL finals that will be held at Blizzcon are for the next GSL, not this one. Anyway, a GSL final consisting of NesTea/Mvp/MC would be too interesting so it won't happen.
On August 18 2011 05:21 MattBarry wrote: MVP had tougher opponents at MLG than GSLWC. I'm not trying to say he's not skilled, just that he hasn't won 2 GSLs. it sort of diminishes the prestige if you say he did.
Who was hard for MVP at MLG? DRG and MMA are the only ones who even remotely come to mind.
What top class player did MVP face at GSLWC other than mkp? San is code b now, huk wasn't the top player he is now, July isn't too great still love him though. Now if mop had won I'd be more inclined to count it since he would have beaten mc and MVP
What top class opponent did NesTea face in GSL July then? (if you don't consider July top-class you probably don't consider Losira top class either) Or MC in March for that matter? Does that make their championships invalid too?
On August 18 2011 05:26 zerious wrote: lol people mad because MC didn't get to Blizzcon, he had his chance and got destroyed by MVP.
I'm not mad about that. I'm mad that he didn't get to go due to a perfectly legitimate achievement being discounted. Please don't pretend that the Open seasons are somehow not achievements anymore just because they occurred last year. On paper, MVP has more points in a system that doesn't count an entire GSL win for MC. That's the reality of things, and I guess if you like MVP more than MC, you'll rationalize that for yourself, but if you wanted a truly accurate measure of achievements, I can't think of any argument that would successfully prove that the Open season achievements shouldn't be counted. The only thing keeping them from being counted is an arbitrary cutoff.
On August 17 2011 22:02 MattBarry wrote: MVP has only won 1 gsl. Mlg had more Koreans than GSLWC.
How is that relevant? GSLWC had the best koreans and thats what matters. He has 2 GSL titles, regardless of how hard each one was. MVP also has the second best GSL run after Nestea. Nestea won without dropping any map, MVP won dropping only a single map (To Nestea). MVP did have a significantly harder run that season than Nestea, in terms of opponents.
MVP is the best Terran in the world. He's absolutely ridiculously good. That doesn't change the fact that GSLWC was only 8 Koreans
yeah but they were the best koreans, it like starting at the round of 8, he'd be there anyways so it still the top skill players.
WC including foreigners like TT1, that's not much hope lol. I personally don't take that WC really serious. The open seasons like FD, Nestea and MC were harder cuz they have to play from the prelim to the finals. Pretty tough tho,
On August 17 2011 22:02 MattBarry wrote: MVP has only won 1 gsl. Mlg had more Koreans than GSLWC.
How is that relevant? GSLWC had the best koreans and thats what matters. He has 2 GSL titles, regardless of how hard each one was. MVP also has the second best GSL run after Nestea. Nestea won without dropping any map, MVP won dropping only a single map (To Nestea). MVP did have a significantly harder run that season than Nestea, in terms of opponents.
MVP is the best Terran in the world. He's absolutely ridiculously good. That doesn't change the fact that GSLWC was only 8 Koreans
Hes good but he always loses to bomber, code a championship and team league, its like hes alergic to bomber.
On August 18 2011 05:26 zerious wrote: lol people mad because MC didn't get to Blizzcon, he had his chance and got destroyed by MVP.
I'm not mad about that. I'm mad that he didn't get to go due to a perfectly legitimate achievement being discounted. Please don't pretend that the Open seasons are somehow not achievements anymore just because they occurred last year. On paper, MVP has more points in a system that doesn't count an entire GSL win for MC. That's the reality of things, and I guess if you like MVP more than MC, you'll rationalize that for yourself, but if you wanted a truly accurate measure of achievements, I can't think of any argument that would successfully prove that the Open season achievements shouldn't be counted. The only thing keeping them from being counted is an arbitrary cutoff.
blizzcon 2011 is only based on 2011 results, i know mc has 2 gsls but one was 2010.
On August 17 2011 22:02 MattBarry wrote: MVP has only won 1 gsl. Mlg had more Koreans than GSLWC.
How is that relevant? GSLWC had the best koreans and thats what matters. He has 2 GSL titles, regardless of how hard each one was. MVP also has the second best GSL run after Nestea. Nestea won without dropping any map, MVP won dropping only a single map (To Nestea). MVP did have a significantly harder run that season than Nestea, in terms of opponents.
MVP is the best Terran in the world. He's absolutely ridiculously good. That doesn't change the fact that GSLWC was only 8 Koreans
yeah but they were the best koreans, it like starting at the round of 8, he'd be there anyways so it still the top skill players.
How do you know they were the best Koreans? They were the best Koreans on paper, but the actual best Koreans is perfectly up for debate, especially since anyPro was amongst them. MVP's path to winning the WC consisted of beating HuK, Dimaga, San, and MKP, and this was before HuK was considered really good. It's a tough path for sure, but can you really compare it to having to get through the group stage that claims so many good players (MC, MVP, and Nestea have ALL lost in the group stages at some point(s), not to mention other extremely strong players like MKP) or to two whole extra rounds (as is in the Super Tournament and Open seasons), all of which are against Koreans?
No matter what, assuming roughly the same pool of players, a smaller tournament is easier than a bigger one simply because there are less games you need to go through to win, and one lacking the group stage is even easier because the group stage is so volatile.
On August 18 2011 05:26 zerious wrote: lol people mad because MC didn't get to Blizzcon, he had his chance and got destroyed by MVP.
I'm not mad about that. I'm mad that he didn't get to go due to a perfectly legitimate achievement being discounted. Please don't pretend that the Open seasons are somehow not achievements anymore just because they occurred last year. On paper, MVP has more points in a system that doesn't count an entire GSL win for MC. That's the reality of things, and I guess if you like MVP more than MC, you'll rationalize that for yourself, but if you wanted a truly accurate measure of achievements, I can't think of any argument that would successfully prove that the Open season achievements shouldn't be counted. The only thing keeping them from being counted is an arbitrary cutoff.
This brings up a question, did Nestea REALLY do that well this year? 2 championships being counted (points wise), at least 1 ro32, a semifinals or ro8 vs MVP.
This is the first time I realized that Nestea has the most points, WITHOUT his GSL2 win. Also with MKPs 2nd place finish would he have surpassed MVP as well?
EDIT: My question about Nestea doing that well was not a blow to Nestea, it was a shock that he did much better this year than I expected (I thought he was first counting his GSL2 win)
On August 18 2011 05:21 MattBarry wrote: MVP had tougher opponents at MLG than GSLWC. I'm not trying to say he's not skilled, just that he hasn't won 2 GSLs. it sort of diminishes the prestige if you say he did.
Who was hard for MVP at MLG? DRG and MMA are the only ones who even remotely come to mind.
KiwiKaki took him to game 3. Kiwi is no joke, and is definitely a highly skilled Protoss.
I find it funny how people discount the WC, When MVP beats Marinekingprime in gsl, it counts When MVP beats Marinekingprime in WC, it doesn't count??? Its the same guy...
On August 18 2011 05:26 zerious wrote: lol people mad because MC didn't get to Blizzcon, he had his chance and got destroyed by MVP.
I'm not mad about that. I'm mad that he didn't get to go due to a perfectly legitimate achievement being discounted. Please don't pretend that the Open seasons are somehow not achievements anymore just because they occurred last year. On paper, MVP has more points in a system that doesn't count an entire GSL win for MC. That's the reality of things, and I guess if you like MVP more than MC, you'll rationalize that for yourself, but if you wanted a truly accurate measure of achievements, I can't think of any argument that would successfully prove that the Open season achievements shouldn't be counted. The only thing keeping them from being counted is an arbitrary cutoff.
blizzcon 2011 is only based on 2011 results, i know mc has 2 gsls but one was 2010.
Yes, I know. That's what my argument is about, dude. I realize that MC just got screwed by the system, but there are all these people that believe that MVP is simply more accomplished than MC overall and refer to the point system as if it's infallible. A more accurate statement would be, "MVP is more accomplished than MC this year". That's why I'm emphasizing my point about "truly accurate" measuring of achievements, because if you make the cutoff point at the start of this year, that's losing some accuracy, no? I'm not saying Blizzcon should count points that way, because it's Blizzcon 2011, so that makes sense. I'm just saying that the current points system isn't a truly accurate representation of achievements.
On August 18 2011 05:39 Luepert wrote: I find it funny how people discount the WC, When MVP beats Marinekindprime in gsl, it counts When MVP beats Marinekingprime in WC, it doesn't count??? Its the same guy...
That's a pretty shortsighted argument. The WC is one round shorter than Code S, and the missing round is the incredibly volatile group stage, while the WC is 2 rounds shorter than the ST and Open GSLs. By your logic, I could have a one-round GSL with just MVP and MKP, and count that as well if MVP beats MKP again, because "it's the same guy".
On August 18 2011 05:26 zerious wrote: lol people mad because MC didn't get to Blizzcon, he had his chance and got destroyed by MVP.
I'm not mad about that. I'm mad that he didn't get to go due to a perfectly legitimate achievement being discounted. Please don't pretend that the Open seasons are somehow not achievements anymore just because they occurred last year. On paper, MVP has more points in a system that doesn't count an entire GSL win for MC. That's the reality of things, and I guess if you like MVP more than MC, you'll rationalize that for yourself, but if you wanted a truly accurate measure of achievements, I can't think of any argument that would successfully prove that the Open season achievements shouldn't be counted. The only thing keeping them from being counted is an arbitrary cutoff.
blizzcon 2011 is only based on 2011 results, i know mc has 2 gsls but one was 2010.
Yes, I know. That's what my argument is about, dude. I realize that MC just got screwed by the system, but there are all these people that believe that MVP is simply more accomplished than MC overall and refer to the point system as if it's infallible. A more accurate statement would be, "MVP is more accomplished than MC this year". That's why I'm emphasizing my point about "truly accurate" measuring of achievements, because if you make the cutoff point at the start of this year, that's losing some accuracy, no? I'm not saying Blizzcon should count points that way, because it's Blizzcon 2011, so that makes sense. I'm just saying that the current points system isn't a truly accurate representation of achievements.
Its like people still saying fruit dealer is still up there, he got jipped just as mush as MC, 5000, if he had that he would look like a contender too, but obviously he hasnt had much going on in 2011. No matter how inaacurate the system mvp is still better demonstrated by winning mlg and actually beating him.
On August 18 2011 05:21 MattBarry wrote: MVP had tougher opponents at MLG than GSLWC. I'm not trying to say he's not skilled, just that he hasn't won 2 GSLs. it sort of diminishes the prestige if you say he did.
Who was hard for MVP at MLG? DRG and MMA are the only ones who even remotely come to mind.
KiwiKaki took him to game 3. Kiwi is no joke, and is definitely a highly skilled Protoss.
On August 18 2011 05:39 Luepert wrote: I find it funny how people discount the WC, When MVP beats Marinekindprime in gsl, it counts When MVP beats Marinekingprime in WC, it doesn't count??? Its the same guy...
That's a pretty shortsighted argument. The WC is one round shorter than Code S, and the missing round is the incredibly volatile group stage, while the WC is 2 rounds shorter than the ST and Open GSLs. By your logic, I could have a one-round GSL with just MVP and MKP, and count that as well if MVP beats MKP again, because "it's the same guy".
My argument was directed at the people who were saying the WC had no skill in it while the real contenders were actually the same as in the GSLs.
On August 18 2011 05:39 Luepert wrote: I find it funny how people discount the WC, When MVP beats Marinekindprime in gsl, it counts When MVP beats Marinekingprime in WC, it doesn't count??? Its the same guy...
That's a pretty shortsighted argument. The WC is one round shorter than Code S, and the missing round is the incredibly volatile group stage, while the WC is 2 rounds shorter than the ST and Open GSLs. By your logic, I could have a one-round GSL with just MVP and MKP, and count that as well if MVP beats MKP again, because "it's the same guy".
My argument was directed at the people who were saying the WC had no skill in it while the real contenders were actually the same as in the GSLs.
Oh, the WC definitely had skill in it. My argument is: let's say you can have a 16-man tournament with 16 good players, compared to a 32-man tournament with those same 16 players plus 16 more good players (not exactly accurate in terms of players, but this is a conceptual argument). The 32-man tournament is simply the harder one due to length, and if you add in the fact that the first round is the group stage, it's even harder.
Would've thought MC beat MVP in ranking points? Oh well, MVP definately is good pick too. And will be awesome to see nestea in foreign LAN. Actually, he probably would be there anyway for gsl oct finals
On August 18 2011 05:26 zerious wrote: lol people mad because MC didn't get to Blizzcon, he had his chance and got destroyed by MVP.
I'm not mad about that. I'm mad that he didn't get to go due to a perfectly legitimate achievement being discounted. Please don't pretend that the Open seasons are somehow not achievements anymore just because they occurred last year. On paper, MVP has more points in a system that doesn't count an entire GSL win for MC. That's the reality of things, and I guess if you like MVP more than MC, you'll rationalize that for yourself, but if you wanted a truly accurate measure of achievements, I can't think of any argument that would successfully prove that the Open season achievements shouldn't be counted. The only thing keeping them from being counted is an arbitrary cutoff.
blizzcon 2011 is only based on 2011 results, i know mc has 2 gsls but one was 2010.
Yes, I know. That's what my argument is about, dude. I realize that MC just got screwed by the system, but there are all these people that believe that MVP is simply more accomplished than MC overall and refer to the point system as if it's infallible. A more accurate statement would be, "MVP is more accomplished than MC this year". That's why I'm emphasizing my point about "truly accurate" measuring of achievements, because if you make the cutoff point at the start of this year, that's losing some accuracy, no? I'm not saying Blizzcon should count points that way, because it's Blizzcon 2011, so that makes sense. I'm just saying that the current points system isn't a truly accurate representation of achievements.
Its like people still saying fruit dealer is still up there, he got jipped just as mush as MC, 5000, if he had that he would look like a contender too, but obviously he hasnt had much going on in 2011. No matter how inaacurate the system mvp is still better demonstrated by winning mlg and actually beating him.
I don't see how MVP winning MLG is a good argument. MC has won or placed high in several foreign tournaments, including Dreamhack, NASL, and Homestory (some of which had very strong Koreans), and a Bo1 isn't a good argument either. I'm looking at overall achievements here, not just immediate ones, because I feel like they provide a more accurate picture.
I'm sure plenty of people here will call me a blasphemer and demand that I am burnt at the stake, but I think that Mvp would be NesTea if they played. Mvp's TvZ is pretty much one of the scariest match-ups I've seen like NesTea's ZvZ or Polt's TvP. And let's be completely honest, NesTea's ZvT is his weakest match-up (and by that I mean that occasionally he looks almost mortal in it). Then again they're teammates so they know each other's styles and decision making as well as they know their own, so really if the two of them played it would be a really interesting match (Ro16 so excited ^^, sad that one has to leave GSL so early though ).
On August 18 2011 05:26 zerious wrote: lol people mad because MC didn't get to Blizzcon, he had his chance and got destroyed by MVP.
I'm not mad about that. I'm mad that he didn't get to go due to a perfectly legitimate achievement being discounted. Please don't pretend that the Open seasons are somehow not achievements anymore just because they occurred last year. On paper, MVP has more points in a system that doesn't count an entire GSL win for MC. That's the reality of things, and I guess if you like MVP more than MC, you'll rationalize that for yourself, but if you wanted a truly accurate measure of achievements, I can't think of any argument that would successfully prove that the Open season achievements shouldn't be counted. The only thing keeping them from being counted is an arbitrary cutoff.
blizzcon 2011 is only based on 2011 results, i know mc has 2 gsls but one was 2010.
Yes, I know. That's what my argument is about, dude. I realize that MC just got screwed by the system, but there are all these people that believe that MVP is simply more accomplished than MC overall and refer to the point system as if it's infallible. A more accurate statement would be, "MVP is more accomplished than MC this year". That's why I'm emphasizing my point about "truly accurate" measuring of achievements, because if you make the cutoff point at the start of this year, that's losing some accuracy, no? I'm not saying Blizzcon should count points that way, because it's Blizzcon 2011, so that makes sense. I'm just saying that the current points system isn't a truly accurate representation of achievements.
Its like people still saying fruit dealer is still up there, he got jipped just as mush as MC, 5000, if he had that he would look like a contender too, but obviously he hasnt had much going on in 2011. No matter how inaacurate the system mvp is still better demonstrated by winning mlg and actually beating him.
I don't see how MVP winning MLG is a good argument. MC has won or placed high in several foreign tournaments, including Dreamhack, NASL, and Homestory (some of which had very strong Koreans), and a Bo1 isn't a good argument either. I'm looking at overall achievements here, not just immediate ones, because I feel like they provide a more accurate picture.
Just admit you're wrong. Blizzcon 2011, the invites should be based on a player's 2011 record as opposed to their lifetime record. Mvp didn't go to any of those three events that you mentioned, whereas both MC and Mvp both got invites to MLGs. And I don't know if you remember, but despite MC's "are you angry?" (which easily is the second best thing to ever happen at an MLG after HuK's imaginary brigade of Void Rays winning him the game), he came in 3rd place. Whereas Mvp came in 1st. Granted, it was different tournaments, but he still placed higher. Plus, it might have been a Bo1, but did you watch Mvp vs MC? Mvp looked like he completely outclassed MC and as we all know TvP is not Mvp's strong point (nor is PvT MC's strongest point, but regardless). Mvp is more qualified, quit trying to sell himself short and try to make yourself think that you're right. You want a system that is messed up? Check out MLG's system where you play poorly-mediocre and remain in the invited groups. GSL has a great system, and GL HF to both IM members! ^^
On August 18 2011 05:53 SKYFISH_ wrote: How are people whining over this? We havent seen MVP outside of Korea and MC has already been to a crapload of foreign tournaments....
I'm sorry to end this protoss mc fanboyism, but Blizzard chose this format. "As previously announced, the Korean invites were to be the top 2 players in GSL rankings as of September 10, 2011" MC already had his chance to pass up MVP but he lost to him so he will not pass him, stop saying MC was skrewwed, he chose the champion for his group and it bit him in the ass, its his own fault.
On August 18 2011 06:55 The Final Boss wrote: I'm sure plenty of people here will call me a blasphemer and demand that I am burnt at the stake, but I think that Mvp would be NesTea if they played. Mvp's TvZ is pretty much one of the scariest match-ups I've seen like NesTea's ZvZ or Polt's TvP. And let's be completely honest, NesTea's ZvT is his weakest match-up (and by that I mean that occasionally he looks almost mortal in it). Then again they're teammates so they know each other's styles and decision making as well as they know their own, so really if the two of them played it would be a really interesting match (Ro16 so excited ^^, sad that one has to leave GSL so early though ).
On August 18 2011 05:26 zerious wrote: lol people mad because MC didn't get to Blizzcon, he had his chance and got destroyed by MVP.
I'm not mad about that. I'm mad that he didn't get to go due to a perfectly legitimate achievement being discounted. Please don't pretend that the Open seasons are somehow not achievements anymore just because they occurred last year. On paper, MVP has more points in a system that doesn't count an entire GSL win for MC. That's the reality of things, and I guess if you like MVP more than MC, you'll rationalize that for yourself, but if you wanted a truly accurate measure of achievements, I can't think of any argument that would successfully prove that the Open season achievements shouldn't be counted. The only thing keeping them from being counted is an arbitrary cutoff.
blizzcon 2011 is only based on 2011 results, i know mc has 2 gsls but one was 2010.
Yes, I know. That's what my argument is about, dude. I realize that MC just got screwed by the system, but there are all these people that believe that MVP is simply more accomplished than MC overall and refer to the point system as if it's infallible. A more accurate statement would be, "MVP is more accomplished than MC this year". That's why I'm emphasizing my point about "truly accurate" measuring of achievements, because if you make the cutoff point at the start of this year, that's losing some accuracy, no? I'm not saying Blizzcon should count points that way, because it's Blizzcon 2011, so that makes sense. I'm just saying that the current points system isn't a truly accurate representation of achievements.
Its like people still saying fruit dealer is still up there, he got jipped just as mush as MC, 5000, if he had that he would look like a contender too, but obviously he hasnt had much going on in 2011. No matter how inaacurate the system mvp is still better demonstrated by winning mlg and actually beating him.
I don't see how MVP winning MLG is a good argument. MC has won or placed high in several foreign tournaments, including Dreamhack, NASL, and Homestory (some of which had very strong Koreans), and a Bo1 isn't a good argument either. I'm looking at overall achievements here, not just immediate ones, because I feel like they provide a more accurate picture.
Just admit you're wrong. Blizzcon 2011, the invites should be based on a player's 2011 record as opposed to their lifetime record. Mvp didn't go to any of those three events that you mentioned, whereas both MC and Mvp both got invites to MLGs. And I don't know if you remember, but despite MC's "are you angry?" (which easily is the second best thing to ever happen at an MLG after HuK's imaginary brigade of Void Rays winning him the game), he came in 3rd place. Whereas Mvp came in 1st. Granted, it was different tournaments, but he still placed higher. Plus, it might have been a Bo1, but did you watch Mvp vs MC? Mvp looked like he completely outclassed MC and as we all know TvP is not Mvp's strong point (nor is PvT MC's strongest point, but regardless). Mvp is more qualified, quit trying to sell himself short and try to make yourself think that you're right. You want a system that is messed up? Check out MLG's system where you play poorly-mediocre and remain in the invited groups. GSL has a great system, and GL HF to both IM members! ^^
I'd say MMA has a bit better TvZ than MVP, but those two are definitely the two best TvZers in the world, and it could go either way. However, I think Nestea can beat MVP. The last time they played were on xelnaga, old shakuras, blistering sands, and jungle basin (terran auto-win), with Nestea winning the only map close to balanced. It's a bo3, though, which probably puts it in MVP's favor.
I'm somehow happy and disappointed over everything in the OP /. :p.
I'm happy that MVP & NesTea are invited. As I feel that they're the most deserving players, and also 2 players we've seen little of outside GSL unlike MC who is IMO just behind them in deserving it, but we've seen loads of outside of GSL. At the same time I'm disappointed that the battle.net tournament won't decide the invites.
I also feel that it's unfair (and thus disappointed) that Genius won't get to defend his title as Blizzcon 2010 Champion. But I'm also happy that he won't as he's nowhere near as good as he once was (well, he'll be better now, but I mean compared to the others at the top) and inviting him would have meant that:
Another region would have lost an invite (which I don't feel would be fair choosing just one region to have only one invite while the rest had two). or Korea would have lost an invite (and I definitely feel that both MVP and NesTea should be there) or They would have had to change the amount of invites and the whole schedule etc. etc. (which I don't think is right as the tournament invites ans schedule etc. are just right IMO).
Yeah, so there's my (a lot) longer than planned opinion on how the news is somehow both awesome and disappointing at the same time .
Lol, posting on a phone takes a while, got an error trying to post saying I took too long typing my message :D.
i love Nestea fanboys, win the most recent title and now your unbeatable regardless of opponent, until of course they lose or a new player takes down GSL
On August 18 2011 07:33 MMAizzzgawd wrote: i love Nestea fanboys, win the most recent title and now your unbeatable regardless of opponent, until of course they lose or a new player takes down GSL
On August 18 2011 07:33 MMAizzzgawd wrote: i love Nestea fanboys, win the most recent title and now your unbeatable regardless of opponent, until of course they lose or a new player takes down GSL
Isn't that the case with all fanboys?
Kind of, i would say Nestea fanboys are more like GSL champion fanboys in general since im sure most of them were all about july or MVP a few months ago... id say the more common fanboy is like Idras Huks or Whiteras no matter how much they win or lose their all about them specifically as a person. the people on Nesteas jock only heard he won GSL back to back and wont remember who he is when someone else figures something new out in the meta and wins it.
On August 18 2011 07:42 Zombie_Velociraptor wrote: Don't really see the reasoning behind GSL points deciding the Korean invites. Not much point bitching about it now, though.
I'm guessing because 1) it's logistically easier and 2) the GSL is a consistent and known entity now and given it's format/structure, it's a pretty valid way to rank players.
I kind of understand the fact that blizzard didn't invite the previous champion AKA GENIUS. Blizzcon tournament is not a regular tournament in my eyes. It's more like a special event so in this particular instance I don't mind the non-attendance of Genius. Besides, he's already got a Blizzcon trophy and golden ring :p
On August 18 2011 06:55 The Final Boss wrote: I'm sure plenty of people here will call me a blasphemer and demand that I am burnt at the stake, but I think that Mvp would be NesTea if they played. Mvp's TvZ is pretty much one of the scariest match-ups I've seen like NesTea's ZvZ or Polt's TvP. And let's be completely honest, NesTea's ZvT is his weakest match-up (and by that I mean that occasionally he looks almost mortal in it). Then again they're teammates so they know each other's styles and decision making as well as they know their own, so really if the two of them played it would be a really interesting match (Ro16 so excited ^^, sad that one has to leave GSL so early though ).
On August 18 2011 05:26 zerious wrote: lol people mad because MC didn't get to Blizzcon, he had his chance and got destroyed by MVP.
I'm not mad about that. I'm mad that he didn't get to go due to a perfectly legitimate achievement being discounted. Please don't pretend that the Open seasons are somehow not achievements anymore just because they occurred last year. On paper, MVP has more points in a system that doesn't count an entire GSL win for MC. That's the reality of things, and I guess if you like MVP more than MC, you'll rationalize that for yourself, but if you wanted a truly accurate measure of achievements, I can't think of any argument that would successfully prove that the Open season achievements shouldn't be counted. The only thing keeping them from being counted is an arbitrary cutoff.
blizzcon 2011 is only based on 2011 results, i know mc has 2 gsls but one was 2010.
Yes, I know. That's what my argument is about, dude. I realize that MC just got screwed by the system, but there are all these people that believe that MVP is simply more accomplished than MC overall and refer to the point system as if it's infallible. A more accurate statement would be, "MVP is more accomplished than MC this year". That's why I'm emphasizing my point about "truly accurate" measuring of achievements, because if you make the cutoff point at the start of this year, that's losing some accuracy, no? I'm not saying Blizzcon should count points that way, because it's Blizzcon 2011, so that makes sense. I'm just saying that the current points system isn't a truly accurate representation of achievements.
Its like people still saying fruit dealer is still up there, he got jipped just as mush as MC, 5000, if he had that he would look like a contender too, but obviously he hasnt had much going on in 2011. No matter how inaacurate the system mvp is still better demonstrated by winning mlg and actually beating him.
I don't see how MVP winning MLG is a good argument. MC has won or placed high in several foreign tournaments, including Dreamhack, NASL, and Homestory (some of which had very strong Koreans), and a Bo1 isn't a good argument either. I'm looking at overall achievements here, not just immediate ones, because I feel like they provide a more accurate picture.
Just admit you're wrong. Blizzcon 2011, the invites should be based on a player's 2011 record as opposed to their lifetime record. Mvp didn't go to any of those three events that you mentioned, whereas both MC and Mvp both got invites to MLGs. And I don't know if you remember, but despite MC's "are you angry?" (which easily is the second best thing to ever happen at an MLG after HuK's imaginary brigade of Void Rays winning him the game), he came in 3rd place. Whereas Mvp came in 1st. Granted, it was different tournaments, but he still placed higher. Plus, it might have been a Bo1, but did you watch Mvp vs MC? Mvp looked like he completely outclassed MC and as we all know TvP is not Mvp's strong point (nor is PvT MC's strongest point, but regardless). Mvp is more qualified, quit trying to sell himself short and try to make yourself think that you're right. You want a system that is messed up? Check out MLG's system where you play poorly-mediocre and remain in the invited groups. GSL has a great system, and GL HF to both IM members! ^^
You can't ever take a Bo1 and just say that someone looks like they outclassed someone else. It's not rigorous at all, not to mention that the current metagame is simply highly against Protoss right now (but I won't go into that - there's statistical proof that I can provide if you don't believe me - just search for "July winrate" and the topic will come up for you).
I'm not trying to sell MVP short. My argument isn't that MVP isn't undeserving, but that MC is, if you consider last year's achievements, more deserving. I'm not bringing MVP down, but, rather, am elevating MC, so don't misconstrue me like that. I believe that I'm making a good argument, but you don't seem to actually be addressing any of my points directly. I've already acknowledged that it's Blizzcon 2011, and thus their system makes sense in regards to not counting achievements from last year. I have NO idea why you tried to make the point that MVP didn't go to any of the three events I listed, because MC didn't go to the MLG that MVP went to, either. Sorry, but you can't just take two different instances of the same tournament and consider them the same event. That defeats the whole purpose of trying to compare them. Since I saw someone try to bring up MLG (which MC wasn't at) as a point, I brought up the events that MC won/did well in (that MVP wasn't at) in response. If you don't want to count events that MC and MVP weren't simultaneously in, then you throw out Dreamhack, Homestory, MLG, and NASL altogether. I'm okay with throwing them all out as long as you don't try to promote a bizarre double standard.
Anyway, I understand that since it's Blizzcon 2011, a system was chosen to discount games from the previous year. That's not my argument. My argument is that, idealistically, if you wanted a truly accurate representation of who is more deserving, you would have to count last year's GSL results as well. Only looking at this year meshes correctly with principles of this system of counting points, but you can't deny that it narrows the scope of achievements that we look at, and, thus, isn't the truly accurate representation of deservingness. Don't try to make this about me trying to sell MVP short. Sure, I'm motivated to make this argument due to me being a bigger MC fan than an MVP fan, but, conceptually, if you take away the players altogether and look at my argument itself (the argument of a smaller scope limiting the accuracy of determining who is more accomplished), it remains perfectly valid.
On August 18 2011 08:19 yakkk2000 wrote: why bother even go to blizzcon ?? everyone know nestea gonna win anyway.............
Nestea is GOOD, but he's not GOD, MMA beat him, and MVP's beat him before too, TvZ is MVP's best matchup and ZvT is not Nestea's best. Even Nestea admitted that MVP is the MVP of IM before in an interview. I'm not saying he won't I'm just saying this aint Inca or Losira hes up against.
On August 18 2011 08:19 yakkk2000 wrote: why bother even go to blizzcon ?? everyone know nestea gonna win anyway.............
Nestea is GOOD, but he's not GOD, MMA beat him, and MVP's beat him before too, TvZ is MVP's best matchup and ZvT is not Nestea's best. Even Nestea admitted that MVP is the MVP of IM before in an interview. I'm not saying he won't I'm just saying this aint Inca or Losira hes up against.
Definately the best two players they could bring out from korea. If blizzard seeds correctly, I fully expect a korean top 3 (let's not forget about Select!) and a top 2 consisting of only IM players ;p.
As for MVP vs Nestea, winner of that is hard to judge right now. 2 months is a long time for the metagame to shift/evolve, but right now I'd definately give it to MVP. I fully expect him to take next weeks GSL match, if anything MVP's TvZ is more devastating then MMA's, and look how that turned out last week ;p.
On August 18 2011 08:19 yakkk2000 wrote: why bother even go to blizzcon ?? everyone know nestea gonna win anyway.............
Hmm..I'll have you know that mvp is the favorite vs Nestea. Even the professor himself says in interviews that he rarely beats mvp in practice. Nestea is good but not a god and zvt is his weakest matchup while mvp is godlike in tvz.
well who they picked are the best... but it seems so stupid that Genius is not invited. He flipping won the thing! Also that they have made their picks before the invitational... Very stupid for "opportunities" The Koreans have it rough.
On August 18 2011 21:14 Infernux wrote: Really hope a random non-korean knock Nestea out, would be so awesome. Ret fighting! <3
If a non-korean as you say and foreigner as we all say it is going to knock NesTea out it will probably be a terran...there's 0 chance for a Z to beat him, and don't tell me that Dimaga did it...NesTea said that back then he wasn't even practicing ZvZ.
On August 18 2011 16:16 hunts wrote: Wow I just realized the trophy looks like a xelnaga artifact from the campaign. Wonder what happens when nestea collects enough of them?
I hope they are on opposite sides of the bracket so that they have the chance to get to the finals. I fucking hate MC for making Nestea and MVP play in the ro16/ro8.
no genius? that's bs. I'm not a huge fan of him or anything, but he's still top tier korean player, and he should easily be able to defend his title.
that actually is the worst mistake of blizzcon as of right now. i'm sure it will be a damn amazing event, but that is just so sooo wrong. poor genius.
on the other hand. OMG NESTEA!!!! i wanna get tix now. One of my friends is a complete WoW nerd, maybe i'll convince him by telling him about the ha;f naked elf creatures
As much as I like MVP and Nestea, somehow genius should be there too. I remember reading one of his interviews saying he's looking forward to blizzcon to defend his title.
On August 19 2011 09:14 leungwk01 wrote: As much as I like MVP and Nestea, somehow genius should be there too. I remember reading one of his interviews saying he's looking forward to blizzcon to defend his title.
Ya I really think they should have had the previous winner return since he is still playing well in the GSL, and also bringing in MC with all his success seems like it would make the tournament amazing. Oh well.
It would be great to see NesTea invited to a MLG event, which I believe is the week before BlizzCon, but that prob will not happen because NesTea probably be busy with GSL semis or what not.
On August 19 2011 09:14 leungwk01 wrote: As much as I like MVP and Nestea, somehow genius should be there too. I remember reading one of his interviews saying he's looking forward to blizzcon to defend his title.
Ya I really think they should have had the previous winner return since he is still playing well in the GSL, and also bringing in MC with all his success seems like it would make the tournament amazing. Oh well.
replace the terrible LA players that will not win a single game with MC and Genius IMO.
I just don't see either of either MVP or Nestea losing to players like Major, Killer, Ret, Naniwa, Select and Sheth. These players haven't beaten a Korean in a lan environment in a long time and we are seeing slightly better Koreans than those that usually come to foreign tournaments.
On August 17 2011 14:37 Magic1264 wrote: I actually didn't like how they did the Korean invites. They make the best players from each region play each other in a very short, very volatile double elim tourney, where the best player of the region isn't necessarily going to grab the invite.
Yet for the Koreans, which is an INCREDIBLY deep talent pool, they just go ahead and pluck the top two players from the rankings of a very different tourney than the blizzard invitationals.
Its not necessarily about NesTea and MVP being very good players, but put them up against each other in several best of threes against 6 other of the best Korean players, you could end up with a different invite combination than NesTea/MVP (hell, mvp/nestea could very well have eliminated one another).
OP has been updated with new information: the BlizzCon tournament page has been updated to omit StarCraft II from the games list for the Korean Battle.net Invitational, i.e. there will be no Korean Battle.net Invitational tournament for StarCraft II. Now everything makes sense again (-:
@Mods: If you feel the added information is title-change-worthy, feel free to change it once more!
On August 17 2011 16:25 bode927 wrote: Arguably, the 2 best, most consistent, most popular players got invited. Can't say that happened in NA.
I don't know that this is the fairest way to select players (for other top korean pros), but I can't say I hate these selections either.
Cmon guys, its MVP and Nestea... that shit is like... cream of the crop.
MVP isn't the most consistent...Also MC is more popular than both of them combined.
You do know MVP just won MLG Anaheim less than a month ago right? Losing to bomber and a few BO1 in team league doesn't make you bad. He's been pretty consistent, winning a tournament almost every month. Plus he's in the Ro16 this GSL.
Seems a bit silly not to have a slot for the previous champion to try and defend his title - but other than that *loud and highpitched girly scream* NesTea!!!!!!!
I wish Nestea would stop going roaches in the mid game it's safer against early terran aggression but he loses alot of map control. his recent zvts with early roach warren just isn't as fun to watch imo
EPT![[image loading]](http://file.thisisgame.com/board/files/0/img/20110817131725_541d59c5.jpg)
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