Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 930

On March 20 2014 18:01 Thezzy wrote:
My only annoyance with Mutalisks is the regeneration.
Why was it needed in the first place? What was wrong with Mutas in WoL?

On top of Blinding Cloud it completely killed Marine/Tank, which I found a lot more fun to watch than Widow Mines.
Partially feels like Blizzard wanted to push (if not force) Terran players to use their shiny new unit rather than tanks.

Blinding Cloud itself also is just frustrating because it's another pure hard counter like the Immortal.
I would've preferred that it reduced range by 50% but would stick to Biological units for 2-3 seconds after they leave the cloud.
That way Siege Tanks aren't hard countered into the ground and casting it on mobile units actually does something.

On March 20 2014 23:46 Grumbels wrote:
I wonder how the game would look like with templar having a psionic attack based on fire wall to replace storm.

On March 21 2014 00:35 DinoMight wrote:
I think late-game TvP is fine. Both sides have the units they need to fight the other and with proper Ghost control we see good Terrans win late game scenarios. Guys like Taeja, Polt, and even Bunny are doing very well in the late game.

IMO it's the early game that causes problems for Terran because they either die or fall behind in econ. But when they come out even or ahead they can win.

So I don't think Storm needs to be reworked or any major changes to Colossus are needed etc. Forced manual charge on Zealots is the most ridiculous thing that is suggested pretty regularly.

**In before "omg Dinomight so biased." I'm playing exclusively Terran right now.

On March 20 2014 23:55 _Epi_ wrote:


The problem with HT vs mech is Feedback, at least if you try to go air. Without air support mech will just die to protoss because of archons and immortals being silly strong

On March 20 2014 23:56 Karpfen wrote:

Can I ask which league you play in?

To give an answer:
1-To keep up with medivacs and to make up for the infestor's death (well, I am exagerating, it's still a good unit but you get my point).
2-Mines killed marine tank, I doubt many players would make vipers vs marine tank right now as they are hard to reach, slow and you have mutas.
3-Blinding cloud is not game breaking if you spread your tanks appropriately. We can't say that terran hasn't got more/as annoying stuff in its arsenal like PDD.

On March 21 2014 01:05 Big J wrote:


I think it's pretty telling when 2 high level Protoss independently say how much stronger Terran has gotten through the last patch (and give reasonable evidence --> Korean GM being Terran dominated; even if that may just be because they have a little bit too much time to spare currently ).

Still I dislike blink allins, and how blizzard wants to adress them. There would be much better ways that don't influence most macro builds without limiting mapmakers. While the result for the macro blinkgameplay itself is the same => it will be weaker. Hell, it's probably going to be weaker if you can't blink into a base in the lategame because no cliff exists, than when you just nerf the timing (like extra Twilight build time) or add a tiny extra requirment to the blink research (like you need a forge; you need a warpgate; you need a robo; just pick the one the Protoss players can agree with the most).
Though we don't even know about the mapchanges yet, maybe they will be tiny and blink/MsC will just stay the Immortal/Sentry "haha, I don't want to play a macrogame against you and can still have a great winrate" of TvP.

On March 20 2014 08:18 Velvet_Llama wrote:
So this is just something that popped into my head while I was eating this delicious sandwich, haven't had time to think it through much. What if the mothership core was changed so that it had to stay within a certain distance of a nexus or it rapidly loses energy?

I know one of the complaints about it is that is able to fulfill too many functions- it's a scout, it gives vision for blinks, it's a powerful spell caster, ect ect. If it ran out of energy when leaving a toss base, might that force the Protoss player to use it more as either a good scout/early game harass unit OR use it as an early game defensive unit? You'd still be able to use it to scout and gain vision, but you wouldn't be able to throw out time warps and recall. Or you could leave it home and use photon overcharge and time warp defensively. I guess this would essentially eliminate the recall ability.

What do you guys think, any merit to this?

On March 21 2014 01:05 Big J wrote:


I think it's pretty telling when 2 high level Protoss independently say how much stronger Terran has gotten through the last patch (and give reasonable evidence --> Korean GM being Terran dominated; even if that may just be because they have a little bit too much time to spare currently ).

On March 21 2014 01:12 EthanS wrote:


Wasnt that the stated rationale for the Ghost buff - its anti-HT, and therefore allows more late-game mech?

On March 21 2014 01:27 Djangoobie wrote:


I think it's an awesome idea. This way also PvP games will normalize in length. Would also be cool if Chrono could be spent to affect the energy regen rate in combination with your idea. This way if the Protoss wants to move out with the MSC and do an "all-in" it will have an impact on its economy or tech.

An idea about the issue with Ravens just popped in my head:
What if the Raven itself turned into stationary "Point Defense Mode". Similar to a transformation mode when the warp prism has to turn into to warp in units.
Because it's stationary it will be easier to target. Also zergs can attack unprotected zones easier, because the Raven has to become unstationary first. Its energy should deplete from itself, but not as rapid as a normal PDD.
Zergs could also use blinding clouds to reduce it's range, but not by large amounts as blinding clouds on siege tanks.

I believe that blizzard will add the "Science Vessel" in LotV to support mech play more. But I'm afraid meching Terrans will get a bit too powerful vs Zerg if they don't change the Raven by then.

On March 21 2014 02:07 Faust852 wrote:


These kind of arguments are being ignored directly because you can't really argue with that.

On March 21 2014 02:18 Grumbels wrote:
I don't know if the ghost buff was really necessary. What if parade pushes with bio mine are very strong and then can be augmented with an effortless transition to the same type of push with ghosts? or with scv's? It wouldn't surprise me if terran all-in potential is quite strong now. And of course Blizzard will never revert changes.

Protoss still has a lot of power with oracles, proxies and blink stalkers though.

I don't think it's good design for there to be only one pivot moment in the game, where the relative strength of the two races changes. I think David Kim said this: they want to introduce more "timing moments" in the game where one race has the initiative, and I'm not sure if that's a bad idea. You see this in Brood War a lot: dragoons come out, then marine range comes out, then dragoon range, then siege tanks, then siege mode, then reavers; and so the landscape changes and there are different rules. But in Starcraft 2 I sometimes suspect that it's more like: protoss strong early game, terran strong midgame, protoss strong late-game, and it lacks subtlety. (exaggerating)

On March 21 2014 01:05 Big J wrote:


I think it's pretty telling when 2 high level Protoss independently say how much stronger Terran has gotten through the last patch (and give reasonable evidence --> Korean GM being Terran dominated; even if that may just be because they have a little bit too much time to spare currently ).