Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 773

On September 19 2013 08:03 Thieving Magpie wrote:


Oh right!

Yeah, totally. Most games in Broodwar were the exact same compositions over and over again. Usually there will be 1-3 variations that come and go as time passes, but it always lead back to the same compositions.

On September 23 2013 10:12 Sabu113 wrote:


Bam finally. I don't know what's this fetishization of infinite combos. That will never occur in any strategy game. What matters is that the dynamics of what does pop up is interesting.

On September 23 2013 18:57 Schism wrote:
Log in to thread - check
See people still wanting SC2 to become Broodwar - check
Needs more discussion on the fact we need better, more innovative maps - check!

I'd like to see a map or two with higher minerals in the main, It might make for more interesting and robust openings instead of the frantic "omg i lost 2 units i'd better grab a 3rd i'm too far behind!!" expansion fest. I think the maps have a lot to answer for in the current SC2 problems

On September 23 2013 07:59 ChristianS wrote:
I mean, PvP is the obvious concern with an energy increase. The other concern being that Blizzard wants to reward players for using the MsC cleverly out on the map. If you make it so that the only way to be safe with it is to leave it at home all the time, then there's no chance for good players to use it well and distinguish themselves from bad players.

On September 23 2013 21:24 Xequecal wrote:


1/1/1 is a serious problem again for Protoss on some of the current maps with an overcharge nerf. The main reason it's not viable now is not because of overcharge itself, (as the siege tech removal and cloak research cost reduction essentially gives Terran a free Raven relative to WoL to blank it with) but because the existence of overcharge allows gate core nexus robo openings. This kind of opening was suicidal in WoL, but now it's perfectly safe. The earlier robo means much faster scouting and the ability to have many more immortals or even colossi on the field when the push hits.

If you nerf overcharge and force Protoss players to open with gate core nexus gate gate gate again like in WoL to not die to early aggression, 1/1/1 will become stupidly overpowered again, at least on the maps that don't have chokepoints to FF their army out. Derelict Watcher and Akilon Wastes are particularly bad here, as your expansion can be sieged from the low ground and you simply need a critical mass of robo units to protect it.

On September 23 2013 21:51 Ghanburighan wrote:


That's simply not the case. 111 was dead at the end of WoL so it cannot be that the Msc is the only way to beat it. A nerfed msc, not even its disappearance entirely, cannot thus necessarily lead to the resurgence of 111.

On September 23 2013 21:51 Ghanburighan wrote:
That's simply not the case. 111 was dead at the end of WoL so it cannot be that the Msc is the only way to beat it. A nerfed msc, not even its disappearance entirely, cannot thus necessarily lead to the resurgence of 111.

On September 23 2013 21:57 Xequecal wrote:


1/1/1 was dead because every single map in the pool had choke points far away from the natural where you could stall endlessly by forcefielding the Terran out and splitting his SCVs from the rest of his army. Those two maps don't have these features.

On September 23 2013 18:57 Schism wrote:
Log in to thread - check
See people still wanting SC2 to become Broodwar - check
Needs more discussion on the fact we need better, more innovative maps - check!

I'd like to see a map or two with higher minerals in the main, It might make for more interesting and robust openings instead of the frantic "omg i lost 2 units i'd better grab a 3rd i'm too far behind!!" expansion fest. I think the maps have a lot to answer for in the current SC2 problems

On September 23 2013 23:42 Rabiator wrote:

Wow ... you want even more resources in the game? Hasnt it dawned on you that TOO MUCH (economy and production) might be the root of the problem? That is the bottom line to solve the "critical numbers problem" of SC2.

On September 30 2013 09:04 larse wrote:
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1ndqeg/bisu_streaming_bw/

When multiple anti-SC2 comments got to the top of a popular reddit thread, there are something wrong. These rants never get any upvotes. After watching BW in the form of Bisu's streaming, it looks like many SC2 people are realizing something, something wrong about the game that is called SC2.

On September 30 2013 09:25 ChristianS wrote:

That's a silly way to measure public opinion. Obviously the "Bisu streaming BW" thread is going to attract the "BW>SC2" crowd, and that crowd is likely to upvote anti-SC2 comments

On September 23 2013 23:45 RampancyTW wrote:
A "problem" entirely of your own invention. Critical numbers existed in BW. Critical numbers exist in any situation where there is a disparity in range, burst damage, movement speed, unit size, etc. It would even exist if all of these things were identical for every unit, because different unit number disparities would allow/disallow different unit behaviors.

Your "critical numbers problem" is a natural consequence of having a game where two players don't always have the exact same iterations of tools at their disposal. It's impossible to remove.

On September 30 2013 10:24 Myrddraal wrote:


I'm pretty sure his critical numbers problem is not that they exist in Sc2 and not BW, it's how fast you are able to reach critical numbers (due to the sc2 macro mechanics mules, inject and chrono), the fact that you don't need to spread out as much to reach critical numbers (due to the amount of resources in each base and distance of expansions) and critical mass just being more efficient due to unit clumping and more efficient pathfinding in Sc2.

These differences are real, though it's up to you to determine whether you feel they amount to a problem or not. For me, I think it is a problem, since I don't really watch or play the game anymore, though of course there could be other reasons for my loss of interest. I think forcing players to spread out more before they can reach critical mass would give more opportunities for harassment and small skirmishes throughout the game which might make the game more dynamic and would be more appealing to me.