EPTIt seems like there are only two camps: the overly formal and the overly obnoxious. Both are pretty bad tbh
+ Show Spoiler +
If a player starts playing with his feet on the table visible to the cameras I will start esportsing my company
Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 729
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lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
It seems like there are only two camps: the overly formal and the overly obnoxious. Both are pretty bad tbh + Show Spoiler + If a player starts playing with his feet on the table visible to the cameras I will start esportsing my company | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12172 Posts
On August 27 2013 16:39 NarutO wrote: I long wanted to give up on this thread (basically like TheDwf) but the problem is, if only the whine is left Gem :D I mean come on. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On August 27 2013 19:47 lichter wrote: It seems like there are only two camps: the overly formal and the overly obnoxious. Both are pretty bad tbh + Show Spoiler + If a player starts playing with his feet on the table visible to the cameras I will start esportsing my company You're missing the overly obsequent person who has no real opinions of his own I think. + Show Spoiler + Scarlett used to play with her feet on the desk didn't she? You may have missed an opportunity there | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On August 27 2013 18:10 zerge wrote: Let's get back to balance discussion, ok? Regardless of winrates i think most people agree that zerg is a bit helpless in ZvT from the mid-game on. What do you think about the following changes to the widowmine: 1. Make the mine more visible on creep, maybe more visible than it is off creep. This would reward players with great creepspread and would reduce the damage that 'forgotten' widowmines do in a fast pace game (I have seend this happen in several high level tournaments and on pro players streams time and time again). 2. Make the targeted unit visible to both players (similar to seeker missile), this would give zerg players the option to fight off creep with good micro. Now it is very risky to do that and beeing to aggressive after a succssesful defense can easily loose the game because off how easy it is to loose your army in a very costinefficient manner. I think these changes could help the zerg to get some momentum going and stop the terran from expanding behind his constant rally. Right now the only option to be aggressive seems to be baneling/zergling runbys but they haven not proven to be as effective as everyone thought in my opinion. Agreed. Zerg doesn't need the widow mine to get nerf, like nerfing damage or splash radius but to have more room to micro against it so if you outplay your opponent, you come on top of each engagement. Maybe by doing like you said, or tweaking the time between the activation of the mine and the time it attack. If you reduces it, you increases your change of detonating the mine with small pack of zerglings. On the contrary, if you increases this time you'll get more change to snipe the mine before it hit your units. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 27 2013 22:00 Grumbels wrote: Keep in mind that all lichter does is meta trolling, you can safely ignore him and nothing of substance will be lost. I am only a squire of it on TL unfortunately | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
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Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
On August 27 2013 16:07 NarutO wrote: Because the problems that occur in the match up are not as you mention they are. Its on the very highest level or if the Terran is is better that he can show domination. If they are on equal footing, the Terran doesn't look as dominant. You make it sound like Terran needs neither skill nor can he potentially lose if he playes well. Thats what pisses me off. You are by no means as good as you think you are neither do you understand the match up well (I could quote various bullshit things, but really I don't want to go through all your dumb posts again). If it would be as broken as you said, TvZ would be out of control at any level, but as you can see, it is not. You cherry pick statistics you like, while ignoring those tournaments and statistics that do no favor Terran. Thats why I pick "a fight"  I mentioned going 3-3 cutting 3 mutas to get to give. Makes no real difference in the fights, does make a difference in game. Yet Jaedong who had ressources to get 3-3 long ago vs Bomber didn't do so. OR you could read my other suggestions that would help Zerg, but you choose to whine without providing anything to the discussion. Stop your egoistical rages naruto. What you say is nothing but wrong again. What you do is nothing but whine about Z would get BL/Infestor like again with any of the mentioned changes (no matter how minor they are) and defend the race that you play yourself with all available means and tricks for no other reason than fining your own results. The MMR is the reason why winrates equal more or less always in lower leagues and you should know this. The issues in TvZ macro games are even stronger on lower levels. It is not that visible because at lower master levels alot of more all-ins are being played and both sides of course do more mistakes in macro games. E.g. alot of terran players who actually belong to diamond at best skillwise play now in masters. They adapt 0% to what they scout and see, they just follow their 1:1 copy of greed openings that they saw in some stream or replay and die to any kind of all-in, even if they scouted it. For example this is equalizing the winrates. In pure macro-games e.g. on low-medium master level, terran is even more favoured than on the highest stages, that you consider yourself to be on because it is actually quite more difficult to play well enaugh against bio/mine/drop rally than executing it well enaugh. I wonder how you can judge about low master level play that high in the sky that you are. Do you sometimes watch noob replays/streams in private? | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
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Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
It is just plain wrong that balance only affects the very highest levels of play and nothing else. Also it is damn right that MMR equals winrates in lower leagues, so he got no point there. And if you like, feel free to disprove that playing marine/mine rally is way easier/less punishing than playing against it (on. e.g low master level). I am strongly convinced it is because a single minor mistake frequently costs Zergs the game while terran is in permanent attack mode and after a mistake he can just fall back for half a minute to continue then. Terran can come back, zerg can't, and so on. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
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Jer99
Canada8157 Posts
On August 27 2013 23:46 Big J wrote: Is it still fire or poison you need, or have things changed since Baldur's Gate? (not playing enough RPG these days I guess) What does this have to do with balance discusion? I saw on reddit someone suggest that centrifugal hooks reduce the time it takes to morph banelings from 20 seconds to 10 seconds, which I thought was very interesting because of the widow mine recharge time. They would be able to morph new banelings in after an engagement before the widow mines are able to shoot again. Thoughts? | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On August 27 2013 23:40 LSN wrote: troll is what you are, at least you appear like a troll after anything I write with having zero arguments but writing troll stuff. Naruto is arguing with wrong arguments, better face it. It is just plain wrong that balance only affects the very highest levels of play and nothing else. Also it is damn right that MMR equals winrates in lower leagues, so he got no point there. And if you like, feel free to disprove that playing marine/mine rally is way easier/less punishing than playing against it (on. e.g low master level). I am strongly convinced it is because a single minor mistake frequently costs Zergs the game while terran is in permanent attack mode and after a mistake he can just fall back for half a minute to continue then. Terran can come back, zerg can't, and so on. I totally disagree, one bad engagment from the terran can be game changing in tvz, because once the zerg is in your production, it's basically lose even if the terran is ahead. And terrans can come back, yes, but only if the zerg throws its avantage. | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On August 27 2013 23:40 LSN wrote: troll is what you are, at least you appear like a troll after anything I write with having zero arguments but writing troll stuff. Naruto is arguing with wrong arguments, better face it. It is just plain wrong that balance only affects the very highest levels of play and nothing else. Also it is damn right that MMR equals winrates in lower leagues, so he got no point there. And if you like, feel free to disprove that playing marine/mine rally is way easier/less punishing than playing against it (on. e.g low master level). I am strongly convinced it is because a single minor mistake frequently costs Zergs the game while terran is in permanent attack mode and after a mistake he can just fall back for half a minute to continue then. Terran can come back, zerg can't, and so on. MMR has nothing to do with balance it's just a rating to determine who your next opponent is in a game. In fact, neither does ladder league ranking for that matter. In any case, what exactly do you consider a "minor" mistake for zergs and terrans? Are zergs doomed to lose every game vs Terran if they accidentally build two spires or forget to inject larva for a round? | ||
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Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
The point about MMR is that it equals your winrate to 50% at lower stages than the very top and at higher stages than the very bottom. If you win you get better opponents and if you lose you get worse opponents. So winrates of races are adjusted by this and the MMR is programmed to make everybodies winrate 50%. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On August 28 2013 00:14 LSN wrote: I consider a minor mistake e.g. that you can lose major parts of your banelings to a single maurauder in fast engagements or to a single lucky mineshot. The difference is that then Z then cant fall back but instantly loses cause a few marines are enaugh to focus down an expansion within seconds. The point about MMR is that it equals your winrate to 50% at lower stages than the very top and at higher stages than the very bottom. If you win you get better opponents and if you lose you get worse opponents. So winrates of races are adjusted by this and the MMR is programmed to make everybodies winrate 50%. It's quite ridiculous considering bad and good matchup from players, e.g. : I have 65% win TvZ and 72% TvT but only 41 TvP. So, considering the MMR thing, I'm playing weaker terran and zerg than myself, but because of my problems versus protoss, it's considered that I play players at the same level as me. | ||
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Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On August 28 2013 00:14 LSN wrote: I consider a minor mistake e.g. that you can lose major parts of your banelings to a single maurauder in fast engagements or to a single lucky mineshot. The difference is that then Z cant fall back but instantly loses cause a few marines are enaugh to focus down an expansion or anything else within seconds. Same applies to multiple simultanious drops that a zerg does not 100% perfectly takes care of. When using too few units to clear it up the dropping units persist and focus down buildings/queens within seconds and if you use a bit too many units to defend the drop the terran just pushes in at the same time because he knows you dont have enaugh to stop it anymore. A minor mistake when making these decisions results in instant loses. The terran acts and the zerg hast to nearly perfectly react to whatever the terran chooses to do. It is much more punishing/hard for the zerg. The point about MMR is that it equals your winrate to 50% at lower stages than the very top and at higher stages than the very bottom. If you win you get better opponents and if you lose you get worse opponents. So winrates of races are adjusted by this and the MMR is programmed to make everybodies winrate 50%. And what's a minor mistake as a Terran? | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On August 28 2013 00:22 LSN wrote: Man I dont know what you are talking about. The way how the MMR works makes every matchup look kind of balanced in the lower ranks when looking at the overall statistics, understand it or not. I dont care what your winrates are and it is not important. The MMR doesn't consider race in the winrate, that's my point, so the balance-design is totally not linked to MMR. | ||
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