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Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 1177

Forum Index > SC2 General
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TokO
Profile Joined July 2011
Norway577 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-28 19:07:07
October 28 2014 19:03 GMT
#23521
Haha, funniest thing is that some of that stuff is true. You tend to have to get two cannons for widow mines anyway now. And void rays don't have enough dps to handle marines in any meaningful way. Good post regardless, very relevant for even being posted in 2011, or earlier.

Here's a question though. Would widowmine be ok if it didn't affect air(both trigger and splash)? Between turrets, marines, thors and vikings, it's not as if Terran lacks anti-air. It would definitely help carriers TvP. It might be both negative and positive in ZvT, easier to deal with stray mines, more shots against ground as you can't soak up mine shots with mutalisks and air units. Avoids silly situations where 4-5 mines take out 30 mutalisks.
Decendos
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1341 Posts
October 28 2014 19:29 GMT
#23522
On October 29 2014 01:31 DinoMight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2014 00:56 Decendos wrote:
i wont even respond to this in a detailled way


Well then I don't really care what you have to say, but go on...

Show nested quote +
On October 29 2014 00:56 Decendos wrote:
talking about tempests being fragile in the first place and you even deny it for the 2nd time now


Yes. For the second time I've given you a well reasoned argument as to why Tempests are "fragile" and several people agree. I already discussed how HP is not the focus but rather relative DPS, but that doesn't seem to matter to you so fine.. agree to disagree then. Though I would add that by your logic, a Hatchery would win a fight vs a bunch of MMM because it has higher HP.

Show nested quote +
On October 29 2014 00:56 Decendos wrote:
your other stuff is either what i already said or not true/bad comparison like marine DPS vs tempest DPS lol...


I gave you the DPS of Marines, Hydras, Vikings (things that would typically shoot at Tempests that wander too far away from their escorting army) to make the point that Tempests cannot wander away from the army that protects them or they die very quickly. This seems very reasonable to me... much more so than your counter argument:

Show nested quote +
On October 28 2014 06:04 Decendos wrote:also lol @marines and hydras have higher DPS


With debating skills like that I'm not sure why you're not in law school already.

Yeah if you're just going to reply "LOL DINOMIGHT IS WRONG HE IS SO WRONG" then you're not really adding anything here.




User was warned for this post
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-28 19:37:49
October 28 2014 19:37 GMT
#23523
Well, it's clear you have no interest in debate so I won't debate with you any further.

I believe I've been warned before for using that exact video as a response to someone, FYI.
"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
Decendos
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1341 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-28 19:42:33
October 28 2014 19:41 GMT
#23524
cant debate with you. you read whatever you want and post senseless stuff like the DPS of tempests vs marines or hydras then i said 5 times that colossus and HT rape both so its really stupid to compare those units...maybe in monobattle you will see marines vs tempests...in a real game...nope. tempests are broken lategame its just hard to get there.

oh and in no way i said protoss OP before you start reading whatever you want again...
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-28 19:50:05
October 28 2014 19:48 GMT
#23525
On October 29 2014 04:41 Decendos wrote:
cant debate with you. you read whatever you want and post senseless stuff like the DPS of tempests vs marines or hydras then i said 5 times that colossus and HT rape both so its really stupid to compare those units


Maybe I'm not explaining it clearly? What part of this is hard to understand:

I gave you the DPS of Marines, Hydras, Vikings (things that would typically shoot at Tempests that wander too far away from their escorting army) to make the point that Tempests cannot wander away from the army that protects them or they die very quickly.


Note how I'm talking about Tempests when they're by themselves, away from the Colossus and HT. One of my points was that they're hard to use in a composition because they tend to drift off by themselves if you're not careful and you have to actively make sure they stay with your army.

This is really basic stuff here, man.

On October 29 2014 04:41 Decendos wrote:oh and in no way i said protoss OP before you start reading whatever you want again...


???????? Where did I say that you called Protoss OP? You're the one making stuff up here, not me.
"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
SatedSC2
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
England3012 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-29 14:40:18
October 29 2014 14:30 GMT
#23526
--- Nuked ---
parkufarku
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
882 Posts
October 29 2014 14:54 GMT
#23527
Carriers
Build time decreased by 20 seconds

Widow Mine
No longer can hit air units.

Cost increased to 100 minerals / 150 gas

Hellbats
Life reduced by 20

Medivacs
Gas cost increased to 125

Terran buildings
Requires a research for lift, which costs 150/150. Can be researched at Orbital

Corrupters
Attack speed increased by 20%

Hydras
New ability: Toxin Spine (Will now decrease all regeneration or healing done by 50% for units hit by Hydras. Mostly intended to decrease bio healing effectiveness)

Damage increased by 3

Marine
Stim'd marines now attack 20% slower


Storm
Storm duration reduced by 2 seconds, but deals the same amount of damage as before over its duration.

Game is now balanced.
Meavis
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Netherlands1300 Posts
October 29 2014 14:56 GMT
#23528
On October 29 2014 23:54 parkufarku wrote:
Carriers
Build time decreased by 20 seconds

Widow Mine
No longer can hit air units.

Cost increased to 100 minerals / 150 gas

Hellbats
Life reduced by 20

Medivacs
Gas cost increased to 125

Terran buildings
Requires a research for lift, which costs 150/150. Can be researched at Orbital

Corrupters
Attack speed increased by 20%

Hydras
New ability: Toxin Spine (Will now decrease all regeneration or healing done by 50% for units hit by Hydras. Mostly intended to decrease bio healing effectiveness)

Damage increased by 3

Marine
Stim'd marines now attack 20% slower


Storm
Storm duration reduced by 2 seconds, but deals the same amount of damage as before over its duration.

Game is now biased.


fixed
"Not you."
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
October 29 2014 14:58 GMT
#23529
On October 29 2014 23:54 parkufarku wrote:
Game is now balanced.

Yep. Around 2 races.
JCoto
Profile Joined October 2014
Spain574 Posts
October 29 2014 15:02 GMT
#23530
It's not hydras what should decrease healing. It's fungal. Fungal hardly damages a heavy MMM.

On October 29 2014 23:56 Meavis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2014 23:54 parkufarku wrote:
Carriers
Build time decreased by 20 seconds

Widow Mine
No longer can hit air units.

Cost increased to 100 minerals / 150 gas

Hellbats
Life reduced by 20

Medivacs
Gas cost increased to 125

Terran buildings
Requires a research for lift, which costs 150/150. Can be researched at Orbital

Corrupters
Attack speed increased by 20%

Hydras
New ability: Toxin Spine (Will now decrease all regeneration or healing done by 50% for units hit by Hydras. Mostly intended to decrease bio healing effectiveness)

Damage increased by 3

Marine
Stim'd marines now attack 20% slower


Storm
Storm duration reduced by 2 seconds, but deals the same amount of damage as before over its duration.

Game is now biased.


fixed

parkufarku
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
882 Posts
October 29 2014 15:04 GMT
#23531
On October 29 2014 23:58 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2014 23:54 parkufarku wrote:
Game is now balanced.

Yep. Around 2 races.


At least I made changes that made remotely some sense and addressed some issues that people on this thread were talking about. If the game balance was in your hands, you would have Terran start the game with 10 SCVs, Banshees perma-stealth mode, all Terran units are now free, and you would still deny that the race is broken.
parkufarku
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
882 Posts
October 29 2014 15:06 GMT
#23532
^ Add in splash damage for marines, marauder slow = permanent effect, widow mine hits stealthed units, scan radius increased by 3x its current size
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
October 29 2014 15:08 GMT
#23533
On October 29 2014 23:58 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2014 23:54 parkufarku wrote:
Game is now balanced.

Yep. Around 2 races.


It's a strategy game. Much like not building the wrong units, you shouldn't pick the wrong races.
I like it when people nerf one race Terran or Protoss into the ground to make the game more strategical, giving you wrong and right choices when race picking.
Meavis
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Netherlands1300 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-29 15:10:12
October 29 2014 15:09 GMT
#23534
On October 30 2014 00:04 parkufarku wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2014 23:58 TheDwf wrote:
On October 29 2014 23:54 parkufarku wrote:
Game is now balanced.

Yep. Around 2 races.


At least I made changes that made remotely some sense and addressed some issues that people on this thread were talking about. If the game balance was in your hands, you would have Terran start the game with 10 SCVs, Banshees perma-stealth mode, all Terran units are now free, and you would still deny that the race is broken.


how fucking delusional are you, your changes make the terran race completely unplayable, with super cost inefficient mines, no building swapping and even more expensive medivacs is inable of holding the slightest of aggresion.
these changes do not adress anything at all minus maybe the carrier build time thing, and I'm 100% sure you're trolling.

also thedwf has never made any suggestions even near that as far I can recall.
"Not you."
SatedSC2
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
England3012 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-29 15:16:39
October 29 2014 15:10 GMT
#23535
--- Nuked ---
parkufarku
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
882 Posts
October 29 2014 15:12 GMT
#23536
On October 30 2014 00:09 Meavis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2014 00:04 parkufarku wrote:
On October 29 2014 23:58 TheDwf wrote:
On October 29 2014 23:54 parkufarku wrote:
Game is now balanced.

Yep. Around 2 races.


At least I made changes that made remotely some sense and addressed some issues that people on this thread were talking about. If the game balance was in your hands, you would have Terran start the game with 10 SCVs, Banshees perma-stealth mode, all Terran units are now free, and you would still deny that the race is broken.


how fucking delusional are you, your changes make the terran race completely unplayable, with super cost inefficient mines, no building swapping and even more expensive medivacs is inable of holding the slightest of aggresion.

also thedwf has never made any suggestions even near that as far I can recall.


completely unplayable? no. a large nerf? yes. mines would still be incredibly powerful; the cost increase is justified for how strong they are, and not hitting air units would be something that would help PvT and they are mostly used as Zerg ground units anyway. The tiny 25 gas increase for medivac is huge? How many medivacs do you see mid-game, about 5 or 6? 6 times 25 = not even 200 gas and it addresses the too cost efficient bio army
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
October 29 2014 15:12 GMT
#23537
I take parkufarku's post as a sign of a healthy game. If that's the stuff being discussed here, the game is in a state where no-one is overly unhappy. (Or just waiting for Blizzcon )
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
JCoto
Profile Joined October 2014
Spain574 Posts
October 29 2014 15:13 GMT
#23538
Infestor should be again on the field able to do something vs bio, just saying.
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
October 29 2014 15:17 GMT
#23539
On October 30 2014 00:09 Meavis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2014 00:04 parkufarku wrote:
On October 29 2014 23:58 TheDwf wrote:
On October 29 2014 23:54 parkufarku wrote:
Game is now balanced.

Yep. Around 2 races.


At least I made changes that made remotely some sense and addressed some issues that people on this thread were talking about. If the game balance was in your hands, you would have Terran start the game with 10 SCVs, Banshees perma-stealth mode, all Terran units are now free, and you would still deny that the race is broken.


how fucking delusional are you, your changes make the terran race completely unplayable, with super cost inefficient mines, no building swapping and even more expensive medivacs is inable of holding the slightest of aggresion.
these changes do not adress anything at all minus maybe the carrier build time thing, and I'm 100% sure you're trolling.

also thedwf has never made any suggestions even near that as far I can recall.

Is this the real life, or is this /r/Starcraft?

Seriously, the game is as balanced as it has ever been and you come up with 2 buffs to Protoss (of which one MASSIVE), 7 Nerfs to Terran and 2 buffs to Zerg.

Parkufarku, hand me some of that stuff you are using, please.

And before you draw the epic Biased card, I play random. And your changes are bullshit.
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
Meavis
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Netherlands1300 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-29 15:23:31
October 29 2014 15:19 GMT
#23540
On October 30 2014 00:12 parkufarku wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2014 00:09 Meavis wrote:
On October 30 2014 00:04 parkufarku wrote:
On October 29 2014 23:58 TheDwf wrote:
On October 29 2014 23:54 parkufarku wrote:
Game is now balanced.

Yep. Around 2 races.


At least I made changes that made remotely some sense and addressed some issues that people on this thread were talking about. If the game balance was in your hands, you would have Terran start the game with 10 SCVs, Banshees perma-stealth mode, all Terran units are now free, and you would still deny that the race is broken.


how fucking delusional are you, your changes make the terran race completely unplayable, with super cost inefficient mines, no building swapping and even more expensive medivacs is inable of holding the slightest of aggresion.

also thedwf has never made any suggestions even near that as far I can recall.


completely unplayable? no. a large nerf? yes. mines would still be incredibly powerful; the cost increase is justified for how strong they are, and not hitting air units would be something that would help PvT and they are mostly used as Zerg ground units anyway. The tiny 25 gas increase for medivac is huge? How many medivacs do you see mid-game, about 5 or 6? 6 times 25 = not even 200 gas and it addresses the too cost efficient bio army


yes completely unplayable, a shit ton, if not all all-ins require swapping add-ons to some extend for clutch holds,
the mines cost would only be justified if it would get it's maximum potential value every single time, and you would be retarded to think this is the case, with costs like these there is no reason to ever build mines as anything else can outperform it.
but alternatives are no option as mines are absolutely needed to hold zealot archon busts.
or hey, even suiciding banelings into mines is allready cost efficient, GL fighting mutaling.
mines not hitting air would make the allready problematic muta balls be unstopable.
"tiny" 25gas may not be much when you have 3bases rolling, but the cost is extreme for your first 2 medivacs, you just spent 350/350 even teching to them, you don't have that luxury of gas yet and the first 2 medivacs are absolutey super fucking important for any timing ever, and you should know that terran is on a deathclock in both their non mirror MU's.
"Not you."
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