|
|
|
On July 26 2011 10:05 damod wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Edit by EgAlex:I didn't want to comment on the Milkis/journalism situation in this particular post, because I think it deserves its own discussion, and would be distracting to the subject matter of this post. This thread should be about EG, PuMa, and TSL. I will be making a separate post regarding Milkis later in the week. For the record, while I stand by the points I made on that subject, I have already apologized to him in private for my accusatory tone and approach to him on the show. Satesfied ?
Not really, I don't understand why it has to be later in the week. That should've been #1 priority since everything AG wrote in the thread was stated on WoC.
|
On July 26 2011 09:20 Ezze wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 09:17 Shiori wrote:
Here's a question: does EG usually go around asking random players at tournaments (who are already affiliated with teams) if they'd like to join? Do they already know if these players have contracts? Do they ever consider making business proposals to management, or do they just go around sniffing for players? I'd like to know too!
This. People are so bought by pr acts that its kinda sad
|
Finally a statement. You really should have done this about a week ago but I am really glad that this has come out. I like EG's players a lot and would hate to have their organization be the sneaky bastards people were making them out to be.
|
I hate to be the messenger of bad news here, I might be hurting hard working businessmen with my irresponsible banter after all. But the thing is: This IS the growth of espoRTS that we hoped for all these years.
The more money involved, the less will businesses actually care about the community. Diverting the attention from a less than well handled and somewhat embarassing PR failure to wildly accusing an accomplished community contributor - one of the thousands and thousands of poeple who built the foundation for the business model of professional teams - is just plain politics. Welcome to esports 2.0.
|
On July 26 2011 10:03 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 10:00 Zocat wrote:First of all - I dont really think what you (EG) did was bad. You (EG) saw a good player, with no contract and no salary and could offer him a good deal. You (EG) would actually be stupid not to take that chance  And I think it's ok to approach the player first to check if he's interested. Imho you basically have to approach both the managment (if a contract exists) & the player at the same time. If the players says "No not interested" talks to the managment dont make sense. If the managment says "Not for sale" talking to the player doesnt make sense. I didnt really like how you approached the whole situation though. Especially "attacking" Milkis and demanding professionalism but when you look at your own team member's (Scoots) tweets - they dont really scream professionalism to me. On July 26 2011 09:04 EGalex wrote:
Additionally, I want to be very, very clear: Evil Geniuses does not sign contracted players away from other teams. In fact, quite to the contrary, we have one of the longest resumes of player purchases and transfers of any international gaming team. Just last year alone, we purchased the World of WarCraft player Emerson "Woundman" Condon from Fnatic, and we also purchased the SC2 player Ben "DeMusliM" Baker from mTw. These transactions occurred with transfer fees and signed transfer agreements, as well as mutual press releases from both organizations - feel free to Google the press releases if you like. We have a long history of respecting agreements.
But I wonder what's the point of this? "Sir - I never stole anything. Just last week I bought X and Y". Having a history of doing good may be looking good - but doesnt affect the current situation at all. Also it's interesting that you mention "EG doesnt sign contracted players away from other teams" when you later mention "4) PuMa was not contracted by TSL, and did not receive a salary.". So the whole paragraph doesnt even apply to Puma since it only applies to contracted players? Again - what's the point of this paragraph? Apart from trying to look good  On July 26 2011 09:04 EGalex wrote:
Overall, we've put a lot of time and hard work into securing enough budget from our sponsors to properly support a top-tier Korean player. And overall, we think that it's a good thing that international teams like EG are increasing the overall amount of financial support available to Korean players. After all, as a result of this, PuMa will instantly become one of the highest paid SC2 players in Korea, and he will be able to travel to any foreign tournament he wants to.
It is good for who? The players? Yeah, sure. For EG (and other international teams), yeah sure.
For the Korean teams? Not really that good I think you mentioned on WoC that you didnt want a "All Koreans have contracts" situation "like Kespa". Maybe I dont recall that correctly? I think the example was Brazil not making their players available for "foreign" countries. And how that would play out in football. But football is the perfect example - young, promising players (not important if they're from Brazil or any other country) get trained in some teams and then sold to the big clubs. So projecting this at SC2 / Korea it would mean every Korean player is under contract with his team (the SC2 Association can basically enforce that) and foreign teams can buy out those players (similiar to how your history with Demuslim & that WoW guy). Would that be a scenario which you would appreciate? Because, as I said, I got the feeling that you were against such a situation in the WoC show. Wait, do you actually think acquiring players is supposed to benefit a team they weren't contracted with in the first place? That makes no sense. You aren't supposed to make another team better when you add players to your team because you're hurting your cause. It's a competition, like every tournament you watch.
Please read again - If it still looks like what you interpreted I'm sorry.
Especially the later parts of that paragraph.
I think it was clear I was talking about the WoC comment of "I dont like the idea of all Koreans having contracts" so you're point of "signing a player from a team they werent contracted to" doesnt make any sense.
|
Thankfully all the pitchfork wielding haters will have moved on within a month or so, because they don't actually care about it. It's just something to fill time for them. It's fun to hate people after all. EG just has to weather the storm until then.
|
United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On July 26 2011 10:01 s4life wrote:
Also, if you say you didn't sign Puma until a few days later, you could have just as well not sign him at all until things calmed down, in that way you could have apologized to TSL coach with actions rather than words and you could have saved face. Now THIS is gold. Well said. No Alex "silver tongue" "Shift-blame" "Self-righteous" Garfield, but a plan of action with integrity: i.e. suspending all negotiations, talking to Coach Lee and then releasing a public statement after negotiations.
After all, Puma's mind is set on leaving for EG - $$$$ is the matter here. You can save face and improve the PR of EG by acting with integrity and releasing a joint statement with coach Lee it's not easy, but it's the right thing to do
|
On July 26 2011 10:04 Dawski wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 09:59 vnlegend wrote:
So EG goes to Puma, while he's away from his manager, teammates, and team in general, talks about contract, details and so forth about joining their team.
Then tells Puma "Ok Puma, when you're ready to join our team, tell your coach."
This isn't how trades are done in Korea. Presumably they have a free agency period where it is known which players are making themselves available for trades, or the team management contact each other to negotiate. There was no negotiation here, just telling Puma to give his letter of resignation.
Then blame everything on Puma in the end. Brilliant. wtf is wrong with you? he mentioned about three times that PUMA was the one who told EG he wanted to talk to the coach when he was ready to join.
Talking to a player about recruitment when he is alone in the US and not able to see what his coach or teammates think is a dick move. Accepting what a 20 year old progamer thinks is the right business decision after doing so is quite dumb.
|
On July 26 2011 10:07 Flowjo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 09:20 Ezze wrote:On July 26 2011 09:17 Shiori wrote:
Here's a question: does EG usually go around asking random players at tournaments (who are already affiliated with teams) if they'd like to join? Do they already know if these players have contracts? Do they ever consider making business proposals to management, or do they just go around sniffing for players? I'd like to know too! This. People are so bought by pr acts that its kinda sad
At the end of the day you have to at least give someone your card and ask if you can speak to them or their agent/team in order to talk about contracts in length. But when someone doesnt have a team or agent/manager that is contractually obligated to filter any possible suitors you just talk to them and gauge interest. Pretty standard.
|
On July 26 2011 10:06 Executor1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 10:05 damod wrote:Edit by EgAlex:I didn't want to comment on the Milkis/journalism situation in this particular post, because I think it deserves its own discussion, and would be distracting to the subject matter of this post. This thread should be about EG, PuMa, and TSL. I will be making a separate post regarding Milkis later in the week. For the record, while I stand by the points I made on that subject, I have already apologized to him in private for my accusatory tone and approach to him on the show. Satesfied ? Not with your spelling im not
read my quote smartass -.-
i thought i made it clear when i wrote my english is bad -.-
|
Why are you treating the Puma issue like it is a one off, one time deal? You act as though this was an aberration born of misunderstanding. What about the other players that EG had contacted directly, specifically Sen, that are under contract? Where is the recompense and contrition for those slights?
|
On July 26 2011 10:06 xXFireandIceXx wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 10:05 damod wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Edit by EgAlex:I didn't want to comment on the Milkis/journalism situation in this particular post, because I think it deserves its own discussion, and would be distracting to the subject matter of this post. This thread should be about EG, PuMa, and TSL. I will be making a separate post regarding Milkis later in the week. For the record, while I stand by the points I made on that subject, I have already apologized to him in private for my accusatory tone and approach to him on the show. Satesfied ? Not really, I don't understand why it has to be later in the week. That should've been #1 priority since everything AG wrote in the thread was stated on WoC.
Heh heh, like I said, it'll take them 5 more days to write that essay.
|
Nice explanation, but there have been lies before from EG, so doubting the honesty in those words still.
|
On July 26 2011 10:08 IcedBacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 10:04 Dawski wrote:On July 26 2011 09:59 vnlegend wrote:
So EG goes to Puma, while he's away from his manager, teammates, and team in general, talks about contract, details and so forth about joining their team.
Then tells Puma "Ok Puma, when you're ready to join our team, tell your coach."
This isn't how trades are done in Korea. Presumably they have a free agency period where it is known which players are making themselves available for trades, or the team management contact each other to negotiate. There was no negotiation here, just telling Puma to give his letter of resignation.
Then blame everything on Puma in the end. Brilliant. wtf is wrong with you? he mentioned about three times that PUMA was the one who told EG he wanted to talk to the coach when he was ready to join. Talking to a player about recruitment when he is alone in the US and not able to see what his coach or teammates think is a dick move. Accepting what a 20 year old progamer thinks is the right business decision after doing so is quite dumb.
Puma was not contracted and had no salary. I believe it's perfectly fine for someone to ask puma if he was interested. Then they agreed that puma would talk to his coach. I see nothing wrong.
|
Looking past the mess around the transaction (doesn't really matter now since he is now with EG), what plans does EG have to increase the level of play on the team? Puma is going from the Korean server to the US server (assuming he is moving to the team house) and from training with the likes of Tester (earlier), Alive and Clide to Axslav, Lzgamer and Strifeco.
I don't think it's enough to just move him there and expect him to maintain his lvl of play. I'm not sure what more could be done (other than getting new members). Can money buy a connection strong enough to make playing on the korean ladder reasonable? Maybe work with another top team?
Ultimately EG grabbed a very strong player to give them 2 top tier players, but I feel like they need to go a little more to be the best. I still don't like their chances against teams like Mouz/Dignitas/Fnatic and once Puma starts playing here in the US and playing foreign tournies I expect those odds to even get worse.
|
On July 26 2011 10:06 xXFireandIceXx wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 10:05 damod wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Edit by EgAlex:I didn't want to comment on the Milkis/journalism situation in this particular post, because I think it deserves its own discussion, and would be distracting to the subject matter of this post. This thread should be about EG, PuMa, and TSL. I will be making a separate post regarding Milkis later in the week. For the record, while I stand by the points I made on that subject, I have already apologized to him in private for my accusatory tone and approach to him on the show. Satesfied ? Not really, I don't understand why it has to be later in the week. That should've been #1 priority since everything AG wrote in the thread was stated on WoC.
If he already apologized private to Milkis why do you want a public post about it?...
|
On July 26 2011 10:10 TaKemE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 10:06 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On July 26 2011 10:05 damod wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Edit by EgAlex:I didn't want to comment on the Milkis/journalism situation in this particular post, because I think it deserves its own discussion, and would be distracting to the subject matter of this post. This thread should be about EG, PuMa, and TSL. I will be making a separate post regarding Milkis later in the week. For the record, while I stand by the points I made on that subject, I have already apologized to him in private for my accusatory tone and approach to him on the show. Satesfied ? Not really, I don't understand why it has to be later in the week. That should've been #1 priority since everything AG wrote in the thread was stated on WoC. If he already already apologized private to Milkis why do you want a public post about it?...
If he apologized to Coach Lee, why did he have to tell us that he did? Most of us at TL just want to see that he understands the ramifications of what he said about Milkis.
|
On July 26 2011 10:09 jenzebubble wrote:
Why are you treating the Puma issue like it is a one off, one time deal? You act as though this was an aberration born of misunderstanding. What about the other players that EG had contacted directly, specifically Sen, that are under contract? Where is the recompense and contrition for those slights?
It's not wrong to tell a player you have an interest in negotiating with them when their contract expires. It's pretty common so you can hit the ground running if a team doesn't resign them.
|
On July 26 2011 10:10 TaKemE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 10:06 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On July 26 2011 10:05 damod wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Edit by EgAlex:I didn't want to comment on the Milkis/journalism situation in this particular post, because I think it deserves its own discussion, and would be distracting to the subject matter of this post. This thread should be about EG, PuMa, and TSL. I will be making a separate post regarding Milkis later in the week. For the record, while I stand by the points I made on that subject, I have already apologized to him in private for my accusatory tone and approach to him on the show. Satesfied ? Not really, I don't understand why it has to be later in the week. That should've been #1 priority since everything AG wrote in the thread was stated on WoC. If he already apologized private to Milkis why do you want a public post about it?...
Because the offending comments were made publicly. It would be like if I called you every name in the book here on the forums, then PMed you later and said "my bad, hope we are cool."
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
