|
Cool, thanks for the clarification. I never really had a problem with the recruitment to begin with, but there aren't a ton of things I have moral qualms about, so take that for what it's worth.
Still waiting for an apology to Milkis. Doesn't need to be public, I don't care, but that was the most out-of-line thing you probably did in this whole affair. As Kennigit put it:
He is not a journalist. When you translate a book, you are not an author. When you translate an anime you are not a professional story writer. When you translate a news story you are not a journalist.
And while I applaud strengthening the foreign scene's player base, I also recognize that Milkis is one of the most important members of our community and deserves praise for the translation work he does so that we who do not fluently speak or read Korean can actually further appreciate the depth of the Korean scene.
Calling out Milkis for not being a good journalist is akin to calling out EG for their lack of commitment to charity work. It's accurate, but it's also irrelevant and annoying.
EDIT:
Edit: I didn't want to comment on the Milkis/journalism situation in this particular post, because I think it deserves its own discussion, and would be distracting to the subject matter of this post. This thread should be about EG, PuMa, and TSL. I will be making a separate post regarding Milkis later in the week. For the record, while I stand by the points I made on that subject, I have already apologized to him in private for my accusatory tone and approach to him on the show.
If Milkis is satisfied with the apology, I am also satisfied.
|
On July 26 2011 09:55 spicyredcurry wrote:
I think this sucks for puma in the long term since he will practice 3 hours a day like Idra. Who wins a tournament on 3 hours a day? Well good luck with your north american practice regiment. I hope EGPuma doesnt fall flat on his face in tourneys like most of EG.
You're not making any sense...they already referred to what his schedule will be like. By the way...being on the asme team as idra doesnt mean you will train like him or that he will train like that forever. Some of the things being said here are borderline asinine.
|
1. Good response. A bit late tbh. If this was released before WoC, you would be much better off. Then you can come on WoC and just reaffirm everyone of everything.
2. Apology to Milkis. What you said sounded like an autocratic government "You shouldn't publish any story without getting an official release from me [even though no one in my organisation responded to you while we were awake]". Just state how you shouldn't have treated Milkis that way. He didn't deserve it at all.
3. There's no more technical problems with the trade, everything is about PR and the public image now. Whether you have done enough damage control is hard to say.
Just release these statements earlier next time, and please apologise to Milkis. He's such a great guy offering up his time for TL and getting lamblasted is not right.
|
United States22883 Posts
On July 26 2011 09:52 PiQLiQ wrote:
its a great move from EG's side of it. Why shouldn't they pick him?
Because there's an abundance of cheap, unknown talent in Korea at the moment.
|
Thanks for the clarification. For further reference however, try being less repetitive and condescending when you right. I know you are trying to hammer your point in but it's really not necessary to write it in every paragraph lol.
Conclusion: Puma is happy, EG has a great new player, TSL loses a player they groomed and trained without a contract. Can we all see the moral of the story here?
|
I would be easier to admit that they did some things wrong and not trying to justify it with rare situations. I also thing there should be an EG apologize to Milkis.
|
On July 26 2011 09:05 CellTech wrote:Thanks for your side of the story. Although, I believe EG may have indirectly sparked kespa 2.0 Puma was really becoming the Ace of a team that didn't "yet" have enough sponsors to support him as well as EG. imo. This was EG looking at Puma and whispering to themselves "omg, no salary, no contract, he's awesome, let's get him". If EG *really* cared about having top tier players it wouldn't contradict itself with much of it's current roster. Puma hwaiting, and best of luck. Poll: Team EG0 was already a fan and still am (1969) 43% -1 fan (1818) 40% +1 fan (802) 17% 4589 total votes Your vote: Team EG (Vote): +1 fan
(Vote): -1 fan
(Vote): 0 was already a fan and still am
Where is the option for "0 - Wasn't a fan, still not a fan"?
|
I don't see how someone could still be angry at EG. They explained everything and never really did anything wrong. They didn't snipe a korean team's ace because both parties knew what was happening. EG is giving Puma a chance to compete at more events, how could anyone be mad about that? Do they not support the best player being at these competitions? Most of the people that are still mad at EG will always be mad at them because people are just stubborn
|
On July 26 2011 09:50 IcedBacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 09:45 Tanatos wrote:On July 26 2011 09:39 Enhancer_ wrote:
Statement pretty much confirms what I already came to believe last week, but it's very good that it's made much more clear for some who may not have followed this as closely.
The comments about Milkis are of a whole other issue, and the argument for translators being journalist is debatable and Milkis simply seemed to have ended up in the unfavorable position of having to defend his side of the debate, which he was wholly and understandably unprepared for.
Are there actually any English to Korean translators here who could get this statement out to Koreans? Would only seem fair to the Korean community if they got to have some people just as cool as the translators here. I actually translated WoC episode and put it in PlayXP, which is pretty much what he just said. Overall reaction was.. they hate him more now. Plus if someone actually went ahead and translated this entire essay... Yeah, they would not be pleased. It doesn't take that many paragraphs to make a simple statement unless you know you're at fault and are trying to cover shit up.
He repeats the exact same thing 6 times in different words. Then apologizes for repeating the same thing and does it again.
Im pretty sure people on TL arent that stupid and can reread something they dont understand. It sounds like he was trying to write a live speach where he tries to get one point across clearly, but this is written format we arent stupid we can reread things we dont understand.
I think its kind of disrespectful to the TL community to treat us like babies who need to have the same simple thing repeated to us over and over again until we understand.
|
So EG goes to Puma, while he's away from his manager, teammates, and team in general, talks about contract, details and so forth about joining their team.
Then tells Puma "Ok Puma, when you're ready to join our team, tell your coach."
This isn't how trades are done in Korea. Presumably they have a free agency period where it is known which players are making themselves available for trades, or the team management contact each other to negotiate. There was no negotiation here, just telling Puma to give his letter of resignation.
Then blame everything on Puma in the end. Brilliant.
|
First of all - I dont really think what you (EG) did was bad. You (EG) saw a good player, with no contract and no salary and could offer him a good deal. You (EG) would actually be stupid not to take that chance 
And I think it's ok to approach the player first to check if he's interested.
Imho you basically have to approach both the managment (if a contract exists) & the player at the same time. If the players says "No not interested" talks to the managment dont make sense.
If the managment says "Not for sale" talking to the player doesnt make sense.
I didnt really like how you approached the whole situation though. Especially "attacking" Milkis and demanding professionalism but when you look at your own team member's (Scoots) tweets - they dont really scream professionalism to me.
On July 26 2011 09:04 EGalex wrote:
Additionally, I want to be very, very clear: Evil Geniuses does not sign contracted players away from other teams. In fact, quite to the contrary, we have one of the longest resumes of player purchases and transfers of any international gaming team. Just last year alone, we purchased the World of WarCraft player Emerson "Woundman" Condon from Fnatic, and we also purchased the SC2 player Ben "DeMusliM" Baker from mTw. These transactions occurred with transfer fees and signed transfer agreements, as well as mutual press releases from both organizations - feel free to Google the press releases if you like. We have a long history of respecting agreements.
But I wonder what's the point of this?
"Sir - I never stole anything. Just last week I bought X and Y". Having a history of doing good may be looking good - but doesnt affect the current situation at all.
Also it's interesting that you mention "EG doesnt sign contracted players away from other teams" when you later mention "4) PuMa was not contracted by TSL, and did not receive a salary.".
So the whole paragraph doesnt even apply to Puma since it only applies to contracted players?
Again - what's the point of this paragraph? Apart from trying to look good 
On July 26 2011 09:04 EGalex wrote:
Overall, we've put a lot of time and hard work into securing enough budget from our sponsors to properly support a top-tier Korean player. And overall, we think that it's a good thing that international teams like EG are increasing the overall amount of financial support available to Korean players. After all, as a result of this, PuMa will instantly become one of the highest paid SC2 players in Korea, and he will be able to travel to any foreign tournament he wants to.
It is good for who? The players? Yeah, sure. For EG (and other international teams), yeah sure.
For the Korean teams? Not really that good
I think you mentioned on WoC that you didnt want a "All Koreans have contracts" situation "like Kespa". Maybe I dont recall that correctly?
I think the example was Brazil not making their players available for "foreign" countries. And how that would play out in football.
But football is the perfect example - young, promising players (not important if they're from Brazil or any other country) get trained in some teams and then sold to the big clubs.
So projecting this at SC2 / Korea it would mean every Korean player is under contract with his team (the SC2 Association can basically enforce that) and foreign teams can buy out those players (similiar to how your history with Demuslim & that WoW guy).
Would that be a scenario which you would appreciate? Because, as I said, I got the feeling that you were against such a situation in the WoC show.
|
On July 26 2011 09:59 Executor1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 09:50 IcedBacon wrote:On July 26 2011 09:45 Tanatos wrote:On July 26 2011 09:39 Enhancer_ wrote:
Statement pretty much confirms what I already came to believe last week, but it's very good that it's made much more clear for some who may not have followed this as closely.
The comments about Milkis are of a whole other issue, and the argument for translators being journalist is debatable and Milkis simply seemed to have ended up in the unfavorable position of having to defend his side of the debate, which he was wholly and understandably unprepared for.
Are there actually any English to Korean translators here who could get this statement out to Koreans? Would only seem fair to the Korean community if they got to have some people just as cool as the translators here. I actually translated WoC episode and put it in PlayXP, which is pretty much what he just said. Overall reaction was.. they hate him more now. Plus if someone actually went ahead and translated this entire essay... Yeah, they would not be pleased. It doesn't take that many paragraphs to make a simple statement unless you know you're at fault and are trying to cover shit up. He repeats the exact same thing 6 times in different words. Then apologizes for repeating the same thing and does it again. Im pretty sure people on TL arent that stupid and can reread something they dont understand. It sounds like he was trying to write a live speach where he tries to get one point across clearly, but this is written format we arent stupid we can reread things we dont understand. I think its kind of disrespectful to the TL community to treat us like babies who need to have the same simple thing repeated to us over and over again until we understand.
He is trying to drill information into a community that has the attention span of a goldfish. If he has to type something 5 times for people to actually remember it then so be it.
|
On July 26 2011 09:58 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 09:52 PiQLiQ wrote:
its a great move from EG's side of it. Why shouldn't they pick him? Because there's an abundance of cheap, unknown talent in Korea at the moment.
This is the best point made in here. Why not foster new talent instead of recycle known quantities? Grow e-sports even further! The American Dream in Korea! Pure Horatio Alger man.
|
On July 26 2011 09:56 SafeAsCheese wrote:
It feels like only 10% of you even bothered to read his post all the way through and are making statements and asking questions already answered.....
As for the Milkis people, what are you going to complain about next if he apologized to Milkis?
Notice he made edits to add stuff at the end about an hour later.
My bad... I had to edit to clarify.... myself.
|
On July 26 2011 09:59 vnlegend wrote:
So EG goes to Puma, while he's away from his manager, teammates, and team in general, talks about contract, details and so forth about joining their team.
Then tells Puma "Ok Puma, when you're ready to join our team, tell your coach."
This isn't how trades are done in Korea. Presumably they have a free agency period where it is known which players are making themselves available for trades, or the team management contact each other to negotiate. There was no negotiation here, just telling Puma to give his letter of resignation.
Then blame everything on Puma in the end. Brilliant.
First off, Puma volunteered to talk to his coach. That was his choice all along. What bothers me is the AG wouldn't do anything differently, knowing what would happen. That raises some questions.
|
Also, if you say you didn't sign Puma until a few days later, you could have just as well not sign him at all until things calmed down, in that way you could have apologized to TSL coach with actions rather than words and you could have saved face.
|
United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On July 26 2011 09:55 spicyredcurry wrote:
I think this sucks for puma in the long term since he will practice 3 hours a day like Idra. Who wins a tournament on 3 hours a day? Well good luck with your north american practice regiment. I hope EGPuma doesnt fall flat on his face in tourneys like most of EG. Harsh comment brother. That said, are Axslav / Machine / Demuslim being paid? They need to practice harder or they are going to be eliminated from the professional E-sports world... especially now that KR's are starting to dominate foreign tourneys. Incontrol just needs more practice... IdrA's one of the top foreign players so no problem there.
|
I don't have any idea why a team would approach a coach to ask if his players might be interested in leaving...? You ask the player, the player thinks about it, player talks to coach about it, then coaches talk to each other. There is no cultural issue with that because EG wasn't snaking around Lee like he made it seem (and how many saw it). I've said it before and I'll say it again, Lee shares a ton of blame in this for assuming the worst and immediately acting upon his knee jerk response.
I'll still be a fan of EG, I don't have any issues at all with how things were handled with Puma on their end. Maybe some issues with Milkis but that's another story.
|
On July 26 2011 09:59 Executor1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 09:50 IcedBacon wrote:On July 26 2011 09:45 Tanatos wrote:On July 26 2011 09:39 Enhancer_ wrote:
Statement pretty much confirms what I already came to believe last week, but it's very good that it's made much more clear for some who may not have followed this as closely.
The comments about Milkis are of a whole other issue, and the argument for translators being journalist is debatable and Milkis simply seemed to have ended up in the unfavorable position of having to defend his side of the debate, which he was wholly and understandably unprepared for.
Are there actually any English to Korean translators here who could get this statement out to Koreans? Would only seem fair to the Korean community if they got to have some people just as cool as the translators here. I actually translated WoC episode and put it in PlayXP, which is pretty much what he just said. Overall reaction was.. they hate him more now. Plus if someone actually went ahead and translated this entire essay... Yeah, they would not be pleased. It doesn't take that many paragraphs to make a simple statement unless you know you're at fault and are trying to cover shit up. I think its kind of disrespectful to the TL community to treat us like babies who need to have the same simple thing repeated to us over and over again until we understand.
Yeah... you think WAY too highly of the TL community
|
On July 26 2011 09:59 vnlegend wrote:
So EG goes to Puma, while he's away from his manager, teammates, and team in general, talks about contract, details and so forth about joining their team.
Then tells Puma "Ok Puma, when you're ready to join our team, tell your coach."
This isn't how trades are done in Korea. Presumably they have a free agency period where it is known which players are making themselves available for trades, or the team management contact each other to negotiate. There was no negotiation here, just telling Puma to give his letter of resignation.
Then blame everything on Puma in the end. Brilliant.
This is the reason that he repeated the same thing six times. They asked if puma was interested and to talk it over with his coach. He wasn't contracted to EG yet, there was no deal set in place already. You are making too many assumptions to things that you don't know for sure
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
