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On July 26 2011 09:49 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 09:49 Grimsong wrote:On July 26 2011 09:48 Shiori wrote:On July 26 2011 09:47 farvacola wrote:On July 26 2011 09:39 wklbishop wrote:On July 26 2011 09:34 farvacola wrote:On July 26 2011 09:28 Shiori wrote:On July 26 2011 09:25 farvacola wrote:On July 26 2011 09:21 Shiori wrote:On July 26 2011 09:20 farvacola wrote:
[quote]
Well after the information that has come to light, Milikis effectively promulgated and defended outright incorrect information. Maybe not with his translation, but with his decision to appear on Lo3 his side was clear. What evidence has been presented (aside from AG's word) that Milikis's information is incorrect? I still fail to see how that's dishonest, given that no explanation was made until today (and even today's has gaping holes hidden under the pretty rhetoric). The insistence that EG's actions during the entire affair amounted to an effective total disregard for the Korean way of doing things, when in fact the reality of the situation was far more complicated, and may have simply amounted to a misunderstanding on an individual bases. In other words, the possibility of the entire situation being a misunderstanding became grossly unlikely to enter public after incorrect details like EG saying that Puma approached them first being repeated over and over. I'm not sure what you read, but not a single one of AG's supposed "misunderstandings" are at all acceptable for a serious organization. Full stop. Sure they are, like djWheat said, " fuck the teams, I'm all about the players." The idea that anyone is totally cut off from communication, as in all communications to Puma must go through a team (even with no contract, which would contain restrictions in regards to player communication), totally offends every sense of individual liberty I and a great many other people have. With such stringent policies in action, many players would be cut off from incredible opportunity, and that is simply unacceptable given the level of success e-sports has achieved. ... I can see why something like that would be against the Korean way of doing things. No, not even Korean way of doing things, just to most sports teams in general. Fact of the matter is, you gotta respect your team at least for everything they've done and everything you've went through together. If you knew anything about sports teams in general, players all have agents, legally savvy individuals that allow a player to properly voice their concerns in relation to a team. Not only do e-sports players not have agents, some are also not even afforded the luxury of a contract guaranteeing them a damn thing. And...the solution to this problem is to go straight to the player? Not to the 'legally savvy' team? Clearly TSL was legally savvy. Solid response from EGAG, expected no less. Certainly more experienced in business than a 20 year old, no?
Obviously if you don't even form a contract with your best player it's hard to tell who knows what. Being young doesnt magically guarantee that a person is ignorant of certain things btw.
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Puma was not contracted and had no salary from TSL. I think it's completely fair for EG to ask puma if he was interested (instead of EG asking TSL manager to ask if puma was interested). So it's fine that EG and Puma agreed to have Puma talk to his coach.
If puma was contracted w/ TSL, then this would be a totally different situation.
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On July 26 2011 09:45 Tanatos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 09:39 Enhancer_ wrote:
Statement pretty much confirms what I already came to believe last week, but it's very good that it's made much more clear for some who may not have followed this as closely.
The comments about Milkis are of a whole other issue, and the argument for translators being journalist is debatable and Milkis simply seemed to have ended up in the unfavorable position of having to defend his side of the debate, which he was wholly and understandably unprepared for.
Are there actually any English to Korean translators here who could get this statement out to Koreans? Would only seem fair to the Korean community if they got to have some people just as cool as the translators here. I actually translated WoC episode and put it in PlayXP, which is pretty much what he just said. Overall reaction was.. they hate him more now.
lol, that sucks. god damnit EG
they should really approach this situation with a bucketload of humility, like really make sure that the koreans know that they've apologized, otherwise relations seem tense, though that's speculation on my part.
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its a great move from EG's side of it. Why shouldn't they pick him?
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While I still think that the whole drama surrounding this affair is exaggerated and unnecessary, it did open my eyes to the fact that EG reps have a somewhat annoying and overconfident way of handling PR. I suppose the relative lack of competition can have that effect on people, but I still think it's something we could do without.
Next time, instead of writing walls of text (that no one cares to read) in justification of inappropriate things you've said and done, try not saying and doing these things in the first place. It would save you a lot of grief (and typing time) in the long run.
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On July 26 2011 09:49 hmmm... wrote:
why would EG Alex condemn Milkis for translating an article showing Coach Lee's side?
is he really that uneducated...
Becasue the end result of that was the story propagating outside of Korea - A story that resulted in a lot of bad press for EG.
As Alex says - they intended to be put in contact with Coach Lee to negotiate an agreement. Instead Coach Lee publicly releases Puma and speaks as though EG were trying to snipe the team's top performer.
If that story never broke, and instead Lee talked to EG, then this wouldn't have happened. Which is what Alex can't let go of and why he attacked Milkis for spreading the story and keeps on expressing his belief that EG wasn't entirely at fault.
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I support you EG. You have done nothing wrong.
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On July 26 2011 09:48 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 09:47 farvacola wrote:On July 26 2011 09:39 wklbishop wrote:On July 26 2011 09:34 farvacola wrote:On July 26 2011 09:28 Shiori wrote:On July 26 2011 09:25 farvacola wrote:On July 26 2011 09:21 Shiori wrote:On July 26 2011 09:20 farvacola wrote:On July 26 2011 09:17 Shiori wrote:On July 26 2011 09:16 aderum wrote:
[quote]
Does he have to apologies for having a different opinion then him and debating that with him? What? he deserves an apology after being accused of dishonest journalism and defamation, to say the least. Well after the information that has come to light, Milikis effectively promulgated and defended outright incorrect information. Maybe not with his translation, but with his decision to appear on Lo3 his side was clear. What evidence has been presented (aside from AG's word) that Milikis's information is incorrect? I still fail to see how that's dishonest, given that no explanation was made until today (and even today's has gaping holes hidden under the pretty rhetoric). The insistence that EG's actions during the entire affair amounted to an effective total disregard for the Korean way of doing things, when in fact the reality of the situation was far more complicated, and may have simply amounted to a misunderstanding on an individual bases. In other words, the possibility of the entire situation being a misunderstanding became grossly unlikely to enter public after incorrect details like EG saying that Puma approached them first being repeated over and over. I'm not sure what you read, but not a single one of AG's supposed "misunderstandings" are at all acceptable for a serious organization. Full stop. Sure they are, like djWheat said, " fuck the teams, I'm all about the players." The idea that anyone is totally cut off from communication, as in all communications to Puma must go through a team (even with no contract, which would contain restrictions in regards to player communication), totally offends every sense of individual liberty I and a great many other people have. With such stringent policies in action, many players would be cut off from incredible opportunity, and that is simply unacceptable given the level of success e-sports has achieved. ... I can see why something like that would be against the Korean way of doing things. No, not even Korean way of doing things, just to most sports teams in general. Fact of the matter is, you gotta respect your team at least for everything they've done and everything you've went through together. If you knew anything about sports teams in general, players all have agents, legally savvy individuals that allow a player to properly voice their concerns in relation to a team. Not only do e-sports players not have agents, some are also not even afforded the luxury of a contract guaranteeing them a damn thing. And...the solution to this problem is to go straight to the player? Not to the 'legally savvy' team?
What I'm saying is that the situation is anything but as black and white as you amongst many are making it out to be. How many unknown deals between foreign teams and Korean players were killed before players were ever even asked due to this strange "respect" for teams when players have no proper representation? The precedent shown by Sc1 and the genesis of KESPA indicates that players are sorely lacking the means with which to interact with an international business that e-sports has become, and this silly morality argument seems to ignore that entirely.
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On July 26 2011 09:52 EtohEtoh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 09:45 Tanatos wrote:On July 26 2011 09:39 Enhancer_ wrote:
Statement pretty much confirms what I already came to believe last week, but it's very good that it's made much more clear for some who may not have followed this as closely.
The comments about Milkis are of a whole other issue, and the argument for translators being journalist is debatable and Milkis simply seemed to have ended up in the unfavorable position of having to defend his side of the debate, which he was wholly and understandably unprepared for.
Are there actually any English to Korean translators here who could get this statement out to Koreans? Would only seem fair to the Korean community if they got to have some people just as cool as the translators here. I actually translated WoC episode and put it in PlayXP, which is pretty much what he just said. Overall reaction was.. they hate him more now. lol, that sucks. god damnit EG they should really approach this situation with a bucketload of humility, like really make sure that the koreans know that they've apologized, otherwise relations seem tense, though that's speculation on my part.
LOL do they want EG to grovel at their feet? Get real, if you want more than this you're making demands you're not in a position to make really.
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On July 26 2011 09:37 Z3kk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 26 2011 09:36 Fugue wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 09:31 Krehlmar wrote:
What did they do to Milkis? Please explain; I've missed it entirely. The last 15-20 minutes of Weapon of Choice. The issue over the acquisition of Puma was pretty much put to bed, but AG decided to bring up that Milkis translated the PlayXP article (Coach Lee's negative interview that surprised both EG and Puma), and proceeded to bring into question whether Milkis should have translated that interview and posted it without first contacting EG for comment. Basically AG was pissed off that the bad press spread out from Korea to the rest of the e-sports scene, and EG was being dragged through the mud thanks to Coach Lee's reaction. It was a supremely silly thing for a PR person to actually do and I dont know why he thought that would go down well - it was only ever going to be taken as a personal attack on Milkis and it's indefensible to say that a translator should have held back on posting the story. On July 26 2011 09:36 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 09:31 Krehlmar wrote:
What did they do to Milkis? Please explain; I've missed it entirely. short form Alex: I don't mean to sound accusatory and I apologize beforehand but you need to be held to journalistic standards. You have no right to defame my organization and you aren't allowed to express your own opinions on alternate medium when you have an article on the same subject. About 15 minutes of the above. Ah, okay. I understand now. Thanks!
I think Alex was expressing frustration that people can cause your company a PR nightmare and not be held accountable because they are not journalist the basically act as journalists with a large audience. I wouldn't really blame anyone for anything, but I can see how it's a frustrating situation.
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There was no bad intention I guess. Still, pretty unprofessional of you to talk with the player directly rather than his manager. You got what you deserved -- in bad press.
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On July 26 2011 09:52 PiQLiQ wrote:
its a great move from EG's side of it. Why shouldn't they pick him?
Because its mean and the koreans might get mad!
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On July 26 2011 09:11 Shiori wrote:
"EG" should have a policy of approaching teams, not players
IMO, if you start approaching teams before players you are going to get a situation where people are going to start dealing players like animals - ultimately the player is the most important person in any transfer, and to make the decision/first step anybody but theirs is unethical.
Imagine for instance that EG instead started talks with TSL about how they were interested in PuMa, Mr. Lee expressed interest in a monetary exchange for a player, and the 2 teams come to some kind of agreement before the notification of PuMa; had he been disinterested in the deal, he may feel forced into doing it, or feel betrayed by his coach for wanting rid of him.
TL;DR - Player should have the choice, nothing wrong with a team going to a player with their intentions first.
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I think this sucks for puma in the long term since he will practice 3 hours a day like Idra. Who wins a tournament on 3 hours a day? Well good luck with your north american practice regiment. I hope EGPuma doesnt fall flat on his face in tourneys like most of EG.
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never was a fan, never will be. this changes nothing
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Guys don't complain, EG did what they needed to do in the right way adn got a better player.
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Good article from AG, but I still think the whole thing was blown out of proportions, and that mistakes were made by all major players. It's unfortunate that the community, both here on TL and on SCreddit, is so quick to make a witchhunt out of everything.
GL EG and TSL!
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It feels like only 10% of you even bothered to read his post all the way through and are making statements and asking questions already answered.....
As for the Milkis people, what are you going to complain about next if he apologized to Milkis?
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Don't lie, I know you typed this while sipping martinis on your yacht.
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Being mean to Milkis is just being a douché, regardless. Never shoot the messenger, very poor attitude.
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EPT
