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Whenever you hit post in this thread, think long and hard. Are you showing the proper amount of respect? If that is not the case, do not hit the post button. |
On July 22 2011 11:01 Inosus wrote:Show nested quote +
- Is it because of her potential? Maybe. Every single player in the world has potential, but perhaps her potential is much greater than that of all the other gamers in South Korea and SlayerS has recognized that. However, I find it pretty unlikely that SlayerS is able to spot specifics about her ridiculously high potential that convince them she is going to be a professional gamer with her playing at as low a level as she is.
(@fadestep) Its a little unfair to take everything to the extreme like that. By this logic SlayerS would only recruit the best of the best of the best, in which case why do they lose sometimes? I don't doubt that eve has great potential. You don't need game mechanics and macro to have good decision making and creativity. From a spectator point of view things like that can be seen at any level of play. Also, I think its unreasonable to assume that she is your average diamond player. I reckon slayers_jessica has more than enough experience and brains to be able to make a decision based on more than just gender and looks. Edit: how do I use quotes >_>
Well I think its unreasonable to assume SlayerS Jessica wouldn't recruit her just because of her gender and good looks. Why else was she sat on the GSTL bench with no intention of playing?
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On July 22 2011 11:01 Inosus wrote:
- Is it because of her potential? Maybe. Every single player in the world has potential, but perhaps her potential is much greater than that of all the other gamers in South Korea and SlayerS has recognized that. However, I find it pretty unlikely that SlayerS is able to spot specifics about her ridiculously high potential that convince them she is going to be a professional gamer with her playing at as low a level as she is.
Its a little unfair to take everything to the extreme like that. By this logic SlayerS would only recruit the best of the best of the best, in which case why do they lose sometimes?
I don't doubt that eve has great potential. You don't need game mechanics and macro to have good decision making and creativity. From a spectator point of view things like that can be seen at any level of play. Also, I think its unreasonable to assume that she is your average diamond player. I reckon slayers_jessica has more than enough experience and brains to be able to make a decision based on more than just gender and looks.
Edit: how do I use quotes >_>
Click the quote button at the top right of their post  . Also I don't think he is taking it to extremes. She was in gold when she was taken in. How can you even see potential in a gold level player?
Now mine isnt working -.-
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On July 22 2011 11:03 toadyy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 11:01 Inosus wrote:
- Is it because of her potential? Maybe. Every single player in the world has potential, but perhaps her potential is much greater than that of all the other gamers in South Korea and SlayerS has recognized that. However, I find it pretty unlikely that SlayerS is able to spot specifics about her ridiculously high potential that convince them she is going to be a professional gamer with her playing at as low a level as she is.
(@fadestep) Its a little unfair to take everything to the extreme like that. By this logic SlayerS would only recruit the best of the best of the best, in which case why do they lose sometimes? I don't doubt that eve has great potential. You don't need game mechanics and macro to have good decision making and creativity. From a spectator point of view things like that can be seen at any level of play. Also, I think its unreasonable to assume that she is your average diamond player. I reckon slayers_jessica has more than enough experience and brains to be able to make a decision based on more than just gender and looks. Edit: how do I use quotes >_> Well I think its unreasonable to assume SlayerS Jessica wouldn't recruit her just because of her gender and good looks. Why else was she sat on the GSTL bench with no intention of playing?
Not every player on slayers played the first time they sat on the bench. Its just to gain stage experience so that she can see how everything is supposed to be run. You can actually chat with the players coach and Boxer while looking at the screen they have at their bench to see firsthand what GSTL should look like.
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On July 22 2011 11:01 Inosus wrote:
Its a little unfair to take everything to the extreme like that. By this logic SlayerS would only recruit the best of the best of the best, in which case why do they lose sometimes?
I don't doubt that eve has great potential. You don't need game mechanics and macro to have good decision making and creativity. From a spectator point of view things like that can be seen at any level of play. Also, I think its unreasonable to assume that she is your average diamond player. I reckon slayers_jessica has more than enough experience and brains to be able to make a decision based on more than just gender and looks.
Edit: how do I use quotes >_>
She did say one of the paramount reasons she was selected was the fact that she was a female and that is all fine by me. If there is a budding female SC2 scene then it would surely behoove Slayers to be on top of it right? Regardless of skill level in comparison to males.
Dont add slashes to the first quote brackets, hitting the quote button on posts will show you what i mean.
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Much respect for coming into TL and posting such a solid explanation.
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On July 22 2011 11:01 Inosus wrote:
- Is it because of her potential? Maybe. Every single player in the world has potential, but perhaps her potential is much greater than that of all the other gamers in South Korea and SlayerS has recognized that. However, I find it pretty unlikely that SlayerS is able to spot specifics about her ridiculously high potential that convince them she is going to be a professional gamer with her playing at as low a level as she is.
[/QUOTE]
(@fadestep)
Its a little unfair to take everything to the extreme like that. By this logic SlayerS would only recruit the best of the best of the best, in which case why do they lose sometimes?
I don't doubt that eve has great potential. You don't need game mechanics and macro to have good decision making and creativity. From a spectator point of view things like that can be seen at any level of play. Also, I think its unreasonable to assume that she is your average diamond player. I reckon slayers_jessica has more than enough experience and brains to be able to make a decision based on more than just gender and looks.
Edit: how do I use quotes >_>
[/QUOTE]
There is a certain section of skill that you cut off from the rest of the world to deem professional and to be to the point, Eve is not in that section of skill, so it's difficult to accept your logic on your quotes logic, and unfortunately Diamond league is Diamond League it's definitely reasonable to assume someone has a lack of professional skill when they are not even placed in Masters league.
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On July 22 2011 11:06 Inosus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 11:03 toadyy wrote:On July 22 2011 11:01 Inosus wrote:
- Is it because of her potential? Maybe. Every single player in the world has potential, but perhaps her potential is much greater than that of all the other gamers in South Korea and SlayerS has recognized that. However, I find it pretty unlikely that SlayerS is able to spot specifics about her ridiculously high potential that convince them she is going to be a professional gamer with her playing at as low a level as she is.
(@fadestep) Its a little unfair to take everything to the extreme like that. By this logic SlayerS would only recruit the best of the best of the best, in which case why do they lose sometimes? I don't doubt that eve has great potential. You don't need game mechanics and macro to have good decision making and creativity. From a spectator point of view things like that can be seen at any level of play. Also, I think its unreasonable to assume that she is your average diamond player. I reckon slayers_jessica has more than enough experience and brains to be able to make a decision based on more than just gender and looks. Edit: how do I use quotes >_> Well I think its unreasonable to assume SlayerS Jessica wouldn't recruit her just because of her gender and good looks. Why else was she sat on the GSTL bench with no intention of playing? Not every player on slayers played the first time they sat on the bench. Its just to gain stage experience so that she can see how everything is supposed to be run. You can actually chat with the players coach and Boxer while looking at the screen they have at their bench to see firsthand what GSTL should look like.
Well it was more poking fun at you telling people to stop assuming when you go and make a giant assumption of Jessicas whole mindset when recruiting Eve.
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Being in "gold" or "diamond" or whatever really doesn't matter.
Picking up Eve is also not the matter.
The matter and the bigger picture is that it was sad to see how Jessica escalated non-issues on the internet and stirred this commotion by feeding the trolls. As a manager it was not the best decision and like I said, her intentions produced counterproductive results and harm to the team/herself/eve.
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Thanks for clarifying Jessica, you do us proud 
SlayerS and Jessica fightingg 
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Look. I am not offended by SlayerS picking her up to support females in pro gaming. That's great. That's fine. I can see the potential for people being offended, but that's not the argument I am making.
I am simply trying to showcase that this is clearly sexist as it is discrimination (good or bad) based on gender. It's not a hard concept.
There's a whole lot of arguments being confused and swished around in the same thread, and people are just looking to shove their opinion down some throats and GTFO before they have to back anything up.
Take a step back and chill the fuck out if you are arguing that this isn't sexist. Stop thinking about the reaction to Eve, stop thinking about how awesome Jessica is, stop thinking about how much everybody on the Internet hates girls.
Start thinking about what we know. SlayerS acquired a female player to promote the female gaming scene. They said that. They acquired a player based on gender over skill OR 'potential'. That's sexist.
Good, bad, awesome, horrible. Whatever you think about that sexist decision is a separate matter.
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On July 22 2011 11:08 ThePurist wrote:
Being in "gold" or "diamond" or whatever really doesn't matter.
Picking up Eve is also not the matter.
The matter and the bigger picture is that it was sad to see how Jessica escalated non-issues on the internet and stirred this commotion by feeding the trolls. As a manager it was not the best decision and like I said, her intentions produced counterproductive results and harm to the team/herself/eve.
I 100 percent agree with you when it comes to western culture, no exception. In Korean culture, the population at large seems particularly sensitive and vulnerable to the thoughts and abuses of others. Given such a typical lifestyle, do you still agree?
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On July 22 2011 11:08 toadyy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 11:06 Inosus wrote:On July 22 2011 11:03 toadyy wrote:On July 22 2011 11:01 Inosus wrote:
- Is it because of her potential? Maybe. Every single player in the world has potential, but perhaps her potential is much greater than that of all the other gamers in South Korea and SlayerS has recognized that. However, I find it pretty unlikely that SlayerS is able to spot specifics about her ridiculously high potential that convince them she is going to be a professional gamer with her playing at as low a level as she is.
(@fadestep) Its a little unfair to take everything to the extreme like that. By this logic SlayerS would only recruit the best of the best of the best, in which case why do they lose sometimes? I don't doubt that eve has great potential. You don't need game mechanics and macro to have good decision making and creativity. From a spectator point of view things like that can be seen at any level of play. Also, I think its unreasonable to assume that she is your average diamond player. I reckon slayers_jessica has more than enough experience and brains to be able to make a decision based on more than just gender and looks. Edit: how do I use quotes >_> Well I think its unreasonable to assume SlayerS Jessica wouldn't recruit her just because of her gender and good looks. Why else was she sat on the GSTL bench with no intention of playing? Not every player on slayers played the first time they sat on the bench. Its just to gain stage experience so that she can see how everything is supposed to be run. You can actually chat with the players coach and Boxer while looking at the screen they have at their bench to see firsthand what GSTL should look like. Well it was more poking fun at you telling people to stop assuming when you go and make a giant assumption of Jessicas whole mindset when recruiting Eve.
I was saying in the original post that the example fadestep used was unreasonable and came up with a more believable alternative. We have very little information to work on right now so assumptions make up a large part of what we're arguing.
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On July 22 2011 07:15 Owii wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 06:53 kckkryptonite wrote:
I am a huge fan of Slayers, and as much as I'd love to jump on board, I still can't see your point. Maybe it's the cultural differences, but it just looks like the case of the person suing McDonalds because the coffee was too hot. What did you think it would be? For me the main issue is how much of the negativity is unrelated to Starcraft at all. Photoshopping Eve's face onto a porn stars body is really hurtful shit, and really isn't something that can be defended.
I'm not trying to defend it. Don't know where you got that idea from.
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On July 22 2011 11:10 fadestep wrote:
Look. I am not offended by SlayerS picking her up to support females in pro gaming. That's great. That's fine. I can see the potential for people being offended, but that's not the argument I am making.
I am simply trying to showcase that this is clearly sexist as it is discrimination (good or bad) based on gender. It's not a hard concept.
There's a whole lot of arguments being confused and swished around in the same thread, and people are just looking to shove their opinion down some throats and GTFO before they have to back anything up.
Take a step back and chill the fuck out if you are arguing that this isn't sexist. Stop thinking about the reaction to Eve, stop thinking about how awesome Jessica is, stop thinking about how much everybody on the Internet hates girls.
Start thinking about what we know. SlayerS acquired a female player to promote the female gaming scene. They said that. They acquired a player based on gender over skill OR 'potential'. That's sexist.
Good, bad, awesome, horrible. Whatever you think about that sexist decision is a separate matter.
I agree wholeheartedly on your post, but deviate in thought on the conclusion.
I believe sexism is a big issue and is a theme of the issue at hand, but I honestly question the role of the manager in the episodes of online conflict.
If she wanted to hire by gender, that's fine - because it's her job as a manager to act on the best interests of the team. If she felt a female pro-player was needed and picked out Eve, there is no problem. People can hate or like it all they want but it shouldn't matter at all. However, Jessica stooped down and antagonized anybody who opposed her decisions, which leaves me a sour feeling and question if she should take such a brash outlook on things that shouldn't really affect her.
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Iv'e never really been a fan of korean teams, or players that much. Dont follow the GSL that closely.
If I do in the future though, I will most certainly be rooting for SlayerS.
If Jessica is right or wrong in this, I dont know, and I dont care. But I respect her alot for being willing to take the fight, for wanting to protect her own.
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I only want to comment on one part of you post
The thing that I had always been thankful for from TL was that even if his performances were lacking, you were always there with us to cheer him on together.
Because you became the force from which he could take strength.
But I am hurt that even some among you would attack us without the full evidence
I don't want to shit talk TL or your views but this is really naive to think that you would find a 100% supportive community here.There will always be people that post shitty thread/comments on someone "just because " and its not anymore less common here than in Korea.
I think you generally got a overall to much of a extremely positive impression from TL and its community from the Boxer support thread.
Don't get me wrong,this community is amazing and unique but you will never get 100% of positive comments,especially on things that are culturally and from a stand point,not matter how right your views might seem to you,different.
I could make a thread here about gravity and some guy would show up telling me I'm an idiot for believing in witchcraft.There are dumb people out there and unfortunately they are the most vocal as well.
The purpose of my post is that I hope you don't get discouraged from interacting with the TL community because of these people,because no matter what you do they will always be there.The most important thing is that us 95% are really thank full to have you as a member of this community and always love to see you post here and just to know your here and read.
I hope i didn't derail the topic to much,I pretty much agree on the rest of your post and can understand how a young girl would be shaken by these kind of things.
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Jessica, you are completely correct in this matter. The fact that some may be too infantile to understand is their problem, not yours.
You are right to do what you need to do to protect your players. Go SlayerS!
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On July 22 2011 11:08 ThePurist wrote:
Being in "gold" or "diamond" or whatever really doesn't matter.
Picking up Eve is also not the matter.
The matter and the bigger picture is that it was sad to see how Jessica escalated non-issues on the internet and stirred this commotion by feeding the trolls. As a manager it was not the best decision and like I said, her intentions produced counterproductive results and harm to the team/herself/eve.
not really a "non issue" when you take into account it's korea we are talking about...........
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Just wanted to post my support for Jessica and everything she is striving for. Please keep it up and try to ignore those who try to belittle you. SlayerS is a fantastic team and I look forward to more great things from y'all in the future.
Keep it up!
Gl and Hf!
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On July 22 2011 11:12 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 11:08 ThePurist wrote:
Being in "gold" or "diamond" or whatever really doesn't matter.
Picking up Eve is also not the matter.
The matter and the bigger picture is that it was sad to see how Jessica escalated non-issues on the internet and stirred this commotion by feeding the trolls. As a manager it was not the best decision and like I said, her intentions produced counterproductive results and harm to the team/herself/eve. I 100 percent agree with you when it comes to western culture, no exception. In Korean culture, the population at large seems particularly sensitive and vulnerable to the thoughts and abuses of others. Given such a typical lifestyle, do you still agree?
Not that it credits me in any shape way or form, I am Korean and I do know the infamous "Korean culture" very well. All the statements of suicides and depressions are in fact true, and many public icons/celebrities are brought down to personal attacks and hate-groups.
I believe, the few handful of individuals that criticized her affiliates could have been easily ignored. However, by commenting on their remarks and trying to defend and actively opening herself up for attacks, she lacked the foresight as a manager; thus the notorious photoshop of Eve and whatnot occurred afterwards.
I have personally read a few of her replies and comments, they were illogical and very biased towards Boxer and the SlayerS team (which is understandable to a certain degree), but even by present on the internet given her celebrity status, I believe was a perhaps questionable move. The understatement is that more people would jump and try to provoke her given that she is famous and that she isn't a nobody. Nobody would care if 1 person tried to start shit online, it happens all the time on DC and whatnot.
Still, in the end I hope for the best of SlayerS and wish Jessica the best
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EPT
