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Whenever you hit post in this thread, think long and hard. Are you showing the proper amount of respect? If that is not the case, do not hit the post button. |
Looking forward to more matches then!
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I support you and everything your team does, slayers fighting
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On July 22 2011 10:25 Versioned wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:24 toadyy wrote:On July 22 2011 10:14 iLikeYourStylez wrote:On July 22 2011 09:56 toadyy wrote:On July 22 2011 09:51 iLikeYourStylez wrote:
I still don't see why everyone is making SUCH a huge fuss out of this... So Eve is said to be not performing up to par right now... who says she can't get better? Jessica said that she doesn't expect Eve to perform in GSL but also that doesn't mean she WON'T. Also, maybe they really do see potential in her... There are TONS of StarcraftII players that, in my honest opinion, will never be a threatening player in a tournament, players that I would willingly bet that they will not get past the Round of 16, if they were to pass the prelims by a stroke of luck. There are also players that get invited into the tournaments whom I can bet my left toe saying that he will NOT win that tournament. If all this is apparent in SC2 now, I don't see what the problem is...
Besides, are the people who are mad simply mad because she got into Slayers and they or their favorite player didn't? Well Starcraft is a sport but also something for entertainment, that's why BoxeR is still so damn popular. I don't really see my favorite player of all time winning GSL anytime soon... but I tune in to every VOD of him, why? Cuz his, "super innovative and aggressive" strategies" are ENTERTAINING. No doubt Eve will also "entertain" the crowd in one way or the other.
I HONESTLY do not see the problem in her joining Slayers, nor do I see a problem with Slayers Jessica fighting off anti's. Give Eve sometime... If in a couple months she proves to have nothing "unique" about her games and all they are are just macro-fests with no extra spice added on, then I'd be happy to withdraw my "very important" statement (sarcasm about my opinion in this holding any water at all) but I still believe Eve will perform well. In fact, because of all this criticism she's receiving, I feel like she'd be motivated to show us a great game, full of micro and unorthodox play.
Best wishes to Slayers The problem is she hasn't shown anything, she is undeserving of a spot in slayers because she is not a good player. I don't care if she can improve, they could of taken in anyone and they would improve in the environment team SlayerS has. You missed the whole point surrounding this argument... So you're saying she's undeserving because she isn't good in the NOW. I don't see why Slayers has to conform and just take in players that are good NOW. If what you say is true, that anyone can improve in the SlayerS team environment, then wouldn't be a good thing to try and train a female player to be ground "breaking-ly" awesome? Is it so bad that she got the golden ticket/luck of the draw and was admitted into SlayerS? All the Eve haters should, in a sense, then be just as pissed when SlayerS_BoxeR gets an invite into a tournament when we can name 5 players off the top of our heads who are more deserving of the invite because of their performance thus far in StarcraftII. And please don't say, "Don't you dare compare the Emperor to Eve," he's my hero too, I'm just being reasonable Yet again you are missing the argument here, SlayerS can recruit who ever they want, I'm not suggesting that they are banned from recruiting people with potential. But they are puting this out there as helping female gamers. When it is just demeaning the whole process, by claiming there is some invisible male opression in SC2 because a few idiots posted some offensive pictures. +1
Try to post actual content especially in such an important thread please. I am sure you can add your own thoughts to this subject matter.
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regardless talking about korean ladder, or NA who temp bans someone for that post? . Does the truth hurt that much that you needed surpress it with a ban. when people tell it how it isthis you ban itthe world aint perfect . if you cant handle people on video a game (how you doing in real life)..you probably shouldnt play itLOL! everyone talks smack get over it act your age ITS STARCRAFT!@!@!@! the girl wanted a pity party, who tries to get sympathized on a video game!?!?!??
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On July 22 2011 10:48 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:25 Versioned wrote:On July 22 2011 10:24 toadyy wrote:On July 22 2011 10:14 iLikeYourStylez wrote:On July 22 2011 09:56 toadyy wrote:On July 22 2011 09:51 iLikeYourStylez wrote:
I still don't see why everyone is making SUCH a huge fuss out of this... So Eve is said to be not performing up to par right now... who says she can't get better? Jessica said that she doesn't expect Eve to perform in GSL but also that doesn't mean she WON'T. Also, maybe they really do see potential in her... There are TONS of StarcraftII players that, in my honest opinion, will never be a threatening player in a tournament, players that I would willingly bet that they will not get past the Round of 16, if they were to pass the prelims by a stroke of luck. There are also players that get invited into the tournaments whom I can bet my left toe saying that he will NOT win that tournament. If all this is apparent in SC2 now, I don't see what the problem is...
Besides, are the people who are mad simply mad because she got into Slayers and they or their favorite player didn't? Well Starcraft is a sport but also something for entertainment, that's why BoxeR is still so damn popular. I don't really see my favorite player of all time winning GSL anytime soon... but I tune in to every VOD of him, why? Cuz his, "super innovative and aggressive" strategies" are ENTERTAINING. No doubt Eve will also "entertain" the crowd in one way or the other.
I HONESTLY do not see the problem in her joining Slayers, nor do I see a problem with Slayers Jessica fighting off anti's. Give Eve sometime... If in a couple months she proves to have nothing "unique" about her games and all they are are just macro-fests with no extra spice added on, then I'd be happy to withdraw my "very important" statement (sarcasm about my opinion in this holding any water at all) but I still believe Eve will perform well. In fact, because of all this criticism she's receiving, I feel like she'd be motivated to show us a great game, full of micro and unorthodox play.
Best wishes to Slayers The problem is she hasn't shown anything, she is undeserving of a spot in slayers because she is not a good player. I don't care if she can improve, they could of taken in anyone and they would improve in the environment team SlayerS has. You missed the whole point surrounding this argument... So you're saying she's undeserving because she isn't good in the NOW. I don't see why Slayers has to conform and just take in players that are good NOW. If what you say is true, that anyone can improve in the SlayerS team environment, then wouldn't be a good thing to try and train a female player to be ground "breaking-ly" awesome? Is it so bad that she got the golden ticket/luck of the draw and was admitted into SlayerS? All the Eve haters should, in a sense, then be just as pissed when SlayerS_BoxeR gets an invite into a tournament when we can name 5 players off the top of our heads who are more deserving of the invite because of their performance thus far in StarcraftII. And please don't say, "Don't you dare compare the Emperor to Eve," he's my hero too, I'm just being reasonable Yet again you are missing the argument here, SlayerS can recruit who ever they want, I'm not suggesting that they are banned from recruiting people with potential. But they are puting this out there as helping female gamers. When it is just demeaning the whole process, by claiming there is some invisible male opression in SC2 because a few idiots posted some offensive pictures. +1 Try to post actual content especially in such an important thread please. I am sure you can add your own thoughts to this subject matter.
If you've read previous posts I can assure you've I've been taking part in the discussions, maybe I would take you seriously if you were a moderator, but I can't I'm sorry =/
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On July 22 2011 10:49 dgattt wrote:
regardless talking about korean ladder, or NA who temp bans someone for that post? . Does the truth hurt that much that you needed surpress it with a ban. when people tell it how it isthis you ban itthe world aint perfect . if you cant handle people on video a game (how you doing in real life)..you probably shouldnt play itLOL! everyone talks smack get over it act your age ITS STARCRAFT!@!@!@! the girl wanted a pity party, who tries to get sympathized on a video game!?!?!??
"lol slayers_jessica is a joke. Seriously? It's hard for a woman to become masters league in less than a month? That's ridiculous, what does being female have to do with being good or bad? I mean I know a few female players who are masters and masters itself isn't THAT hard to get into.
She is acting way too dramatic, and I dunno why she is trying to control the internet, its never going to change. If you can't handle criticism then don't try to be famous/known.
I can't express enough how ignorant over half the shit she said was."
User was banned for this post.
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apparently people can read this and still be assholes? um, ok... I guess.
I'm glad to see a female pro sponsored by a team, with no differentiation between the mainstream team members. That's a challenging place to be, but one that is honest and honourable, for the time being. I think this is far better than having all female teams that compete in all female leagues, I'd far prefer women to try to compete in the main leagues even if they meet with little success, even if they have to be personally sponsored like this to develop.
Eve is in a good position, she is among the most talented female players, she has looks and seemingly has charisma, before laughing this off you have to consider how much that plays a part for male players in korea, it is definitely not inconsiderable. As much as overseas, the success of a player is dependant as much on their personality and charisma as their results, and only an idiot businessman would not take this into consideration with an acquisition. Finally, she has Jessica as a manager, another woman who has been through the system and can help her avoid the snares it casts.
yet I worry, I know this is a cultural thing, but it pains me to see women taking this hatred personally. I can't see how Eve can be humiliated by what has been done unless she feels culturally obliged to, and the issue of professional mistreatment and suicide in korea really disgusts me, because korean celebrities, particularly the women, work their asses off and generally don't get a lot of reward out of it, compared to western celebrities at least. They are pretty faces and talents, but they are objectified to such an extent by both their audience and their employers their humanity suffers and their psyche is shackled to the public's perception of them.
I hate to see people who try hard and make a real effort in a difficult field, acknowledging the challenges and yet not being put off by them, disrespected. I hate to see their efforts trivialized. I hate to see their example not appreciated for what it is. Most of all, I hate when they do any of these things to themselves because some small minded impulsive sadists who think it is a good thing to make these people uncomfortable simply because they feel possessive over something they have done little enough to create see fit to attack them with no thought as to their health or sanity even while lauding a culture that strips them of the ability to defend either.
I hope to god she destroys someone famous in a GSL at some point just so I can drink the fanboy tears. It may be a bit hypocritical of me, but at least it will be cathartic.
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The majority of foreign community is behind SlayerS and is behind you. Yes there are some bad apples in the foreign scene that feel the need to spread hate, but remember that the overwhelming majority is supporting you and your cause. After reading your post and understanding the formality of having to provide all supporting evidence in the case I no longer believe you irrationally over reacted.
We support you Jessica and SlayerS GL with your case!
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On July 22 2011 10:48 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:25 Versioned wrote:On July 22 2011 10:24 toadyy wrote:On July 22 2011 10:14 iLikeYourStylez wrote:On July 22 2011 09:56 toadyy wrote:On July 22 2011 09:51 iLikeYourStylez wrote:
I still don't see why everyone is making SUCH a huge fuss out of this... So Eve is said to be not performing up to par right now... who says she can't get better? Jessica said that she doesn't expect Eve to perform in GSL but also that doesn't mean she WON'T. Also, maybe they really do see potential in her... There are TONS of StarcraftII players that, in my honest opinion, will never be a threatening player in a tournament, players that I would willingly bet that they will not get past the Round of 16, if they were to pass the prelims by a stroke of luck. There are also players that get invited into the tournaments whom I can bet my left toe saying that he will NOT win that tournament. If all this is apparent in SC2 now, I don't see what the problem is...
Besides, are the people who are mad simply mad because she got into Slayers and they or their favorite player didn't? Well Starcraft is a sport but also something for entertainment, that's why BoxeR is still so damn popular. I don't really see my favorite player of all time winning GSL anytime soon... but I tune in to every VOD of him, why? Cuz his, "super innovative and aggressive" strategies" are ENTERTAINING. No doubt Eve will also "entertain" the crowd in one way or the other.
I HONESTLY do not see the problem in her joining Slayers, nor do I see a problem with Slayers Jessica fighting off anti's. Give Eve sometime... If in a couple months she proves to have nothing "unique" about her games and all they are are just macro-fests with no extra spice added on, then I'd be happy to withdraw my "very important" statement (sarcasm about my opinion in this holding any water at all) but I still believe Eve will perform well. In fact, because of all this criticism she's receiving, I feel like she'd be motivated to show us a great game, full of micro and unorthodox play.
Best wishes to Slayers The problem is she hasn't shown anything, she is undeserving of a spot in slayers because she is not a good player. I don't care if she can improve, they could of taken in anyone and they would improve in the environment team SlayerS has. You missed the whole point surrounding this argument... So you're saying she's undeserving because she isn't good in the NOW. I don't see why Slayers has to conform and just take in players that are good NOW. If what you say is true, that anyone can improve in the SlayerS team environment, then wouldn't be a good thing to try and train a female player to be ground "breaking-ly" awesome? Is it so bad that she got the golden ticket/luck of the draw and was admitted into SlayerS? All the Eve haters should, in a sense, then be just as pissed when SlayerS_BoxeR gets an invite into a tournament when we can name 5 players off the top of our heads who are more deserving of the invite because of their performance thus far in StarcraftII. And please don't say, "Don't you dare compare the Emperor to Eve," he's my hero too, I'm just being reasonable Yet again you are missing the argument here, SlayerS can recruit who ever they want, I'm not suggesting that they are banned from recruiting people with potential. But they are puting this out there as helping female gamers. When it is just demeaning the whole process, by claiming there is some invisible male opression in SC2 because a few idiots posted some offensive pictures. +1 Try to post actual content especially in such an important thread please. I am sure you can add your own thoughts to this subject matter.
Please don't quote other people. Try to post your own ideas.
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On July 22 2011 10:49 Versioned wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:48 Medrea wrote:On July 22 2011 10:25 Versioned wrote:On July 22 2011 10:24 toadyy wrote:On July 22 2011 10:14 iLikeYourStylez wrote:On July 22 2011 09:56 toadyy wrote:On July 22 2011 09:51 iLikeYourStylez wrote:
I still don't see why everyone is making SUCH a huge fuss out of this... So Eve is said to be not performing up to par right now... who says she can't get better? Jessica said that she doesn't expect Eve to perform in GSL but also that doesn't mean she WON'T. Also, maybe they really do see potential in her... There are TONS of StarcraftII players that, in my honest opinion, will never be a threatening player in a tournament, players that I would willingly bet that they will not get past the Round of 16, if they were to pass the prelims by a stroke of luck. There are also players that get invited into the tournaments whom I can bet my left toe saying that he will NOT win that tournament. If all this is apparent in SC2 now, I don't see what the problem is...
Besides, are the people who are mad simply mad because she got into Slayers and they or their favorite player didn't? Well Starcraft is a sport but also something for entertainment, that's why BoxeR is still so damn popular. I don't really see my favorite player of all time winning GSL anytime soon... but I tune in to every VOD of him, why? Cuz his, "super innovative and aggressive" strategies" are ENTERTAINING. No doubt Eve will also "entertain" the crowd in one way or the other.
I HONESTLY do not see the problem in her joining Slayers, nor do I see a problem with Slayers Jessica fighting off anti's. Give Eve sometime... If in a couple months she proves to have nothing "unique" about her games and all they are are just macro-fests with no extra spice added on, then I'd be happy to withdraw my "very important" statement (sarcasm about my opinion in this holding any water at all) but I still believe Eve will perform well. In fact, because of all this criticism she's receiving, I feel like she'd be motivated to show us a great game, full of micro and unorthodox play.
Best wishes to Slayers The problem is she hasn't shown anything, she is undeserving of a spot in slayers because she is not a good player. I don't care if she can improve, they could of taken in anyone and they would improve in the environment team SlayerS has. You missed the whole point surrounding this argument... So you're saying she's undeserving because she isn't good in the NOW. I don't see why Slayers has to conform and just take in players that are good NOW. If what you say is true, that anyone can improve in the SlayerS team environment, then wouldn't be a good thing to try and train a female player to be ground "breaking-ly" awesome? Is it so bad that she got the golden ticket/luck of the draw and was admitted into SlayerS? All the Eve haters should, in a sense, then be just as pissed when SlayerS_BoxeR gets an invite into a tournament when we can name 5 players off the top of our heads who are more deserving of the invite because of their performance thus far in StarcraftII. And please don't say, "Don't you dare compare the Emperor to Eve," he's my hero too, I'm just being reasonable Yet again you are missing the argument here, SlayerS can recruit who ever they want, I'm not suggesting that they are banned from recruiting people with potential. But they are puting this out there as helping female gamers. When it is just demeaning the whole process, by claiming there is some invisible male opression in SC2 because a few idiots posted some offensive pictures. +1 Try to post actual content especially in such an important thread please. I am sure you can add your own thoughts to this subject matter. If you've read previous posts I can assure you've I've been taking part in the discussions, maybe I would take you seriously if you were a moderator, but I can't I'm sorry =/
That is a shame.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883
Please refer to commandment 3.
Jessica you are free to explore all the rights given to you by your country.
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On July 22 2011 10:50 dgattt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:49 dgattt wrote:
regardless talking about korean ladder, or NA who temp bans someone for that post? . Does the truth hurt that much that you needed surpress it with a ban. when people tell it how it isthis you ban itthe world aint perfect . if you cant handle people on video a game (how you doing in real life)..you probably shouldnt play itLOL! everyone talks smack get over it act your age ITS STARCRAFT!@!@!@! the girl wanted a pity party, who tries to get sympathized on a video game!?!?!?? "lol slayers_jessica is a joke. Seriously? It's hard for a woman to become masters league in less than a month? That's ridiculous, what does being female have to do with being good or bad? I mean I know a few female players who are masters and masters itself isn't THAT hard to get into. She is acting way too dramatic, and I dunno why she is trying to control the internet, its never going to change. If you can't handle criticism then don't try to be famous/known. I can't express enough how ignorant over half the shit she said was."
Goodbye, you don't belong in this community. Learn to show some RESPECT. Did you think Eve TRIED to be famous/known? It's not always something you choose, the internet chose her as a victim and now you don't understand why Jessica is overreacting? Out.
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The things they did to SlayerS_Eve are just inappropriate and immature, I hope for the best.
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On July 22 2011 10:54 Syben wrote:
The foreign community is behind SlayerS and is behind you. Yes there are some bad apples in the foreign scene, but remember that the overwhelming majority is supporting you and your cause. After reading your post and understanding the formality of having to provide all supporting evidence in the case I no longer believe you irrationally over reacted.
We support you Jessica and SlayerS GL with your case!
Thank you for speaking on behalf of the entire non korean SC2 scene.
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On July 22 2011 10:54 XiGua wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:50 dgattt wrote:On July 22 2011 10:49 dgattt wrote:
regardless talking about korean ladder, or NA who temp bans someone for that post? . Does the truth hurt that much that you needed surpress it with a ban. when people tell it how it isthis you ban itthe world aint perfect . if you cant handle people on video a game (how you doing in real life)..you probably shouldnt play itLOL! everyone talks smack get over it act your age ITS STARCRAFT!@!@!@! the girl wanted a pity party, who tries to get sympathized on a video game!?!?!?? "lol slayers_jessica is a joke. Seriously? It's hard for a woman to become masters league in less than a month? That's ridiculous, what does being female have to do with being good or bad? I mean I know a few female players who are masters and masters itself isn't THAT hard to get into. She is acting way too dramatic, and I dunno why she is trying to control the internet, its never going to change. If you can't handle criticism then don't try to be famous/known. I can't express enough how ignorant over half the shit she said was." Goodbye, you don't belong in this community. Learn to show some RESPECT. Did you think Eve TRIED to be famous/known? It's not always something you choose, the internet chose her as a victim and now you don't understand why Jessica is overreacting? Out.
Oh really. You are now the gatekeeper of TeamLiquid and you deem him unworthy?
He doesn't like that SlayerS is pandering to a player because of gender and is offended by the way they are handling the PR and that means he needs to leave the community?
Respect is given where respect is deserved, and although not the most respectful of posts, he says nothing out of line.
Out White Knight. TeamLiquid needs less easily offended drones who dramatize everything. Out.
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where can i watch Eve's games? what race does she plays? whats her playing style?
anyone knows? i am so interested :D
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Eve is going to have good matches in the future...
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United States4796 Posts
Jessica. I don't know if you'll ever read this, but I hope you do I guess.
I really respect you. Based on your career and decisions and your fostering of the team. How deeply you care for BoxeR and his team is amazing and I've never seen anything like it.
As for the responses you've been writing regarding Eve, I also support what you're doing. It's a difficult case but because it's so serious in Korea it really makes sense what you're doing to ensure the success of Eve in the long run.
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[/QUOTE]
- Is it because of her potential? Maybe. Every single player in the world has potential, but perhaps her potential is much greater than that of all the other gamers in South Korea and SlayerS has recognized that. However, I find it pretty unlikely that SlayerS is able to spot specifics about her ridiculously high potential that convince them she is going to be a professional gamer with her playing at as low a level as she is.
[/QUOTE]
(@fadestep)
Its a little unfair to take everything to the extreme like that. By this logic SlayerS would only recruit the best of the best of the best, in which case why do they lose sometimes?
I don't doubt that eve has great potential. You don't need game mechanics and macro to have good decision making and creativity. From a spectator point of view things like that can be seen at any level of play. Also, I think its unreasonable to assume that she is your average diamond player. I reckon slayers_jessica has more than enough experience and brains to be able to make a decision based on more than just gender and looks.
Edit: how do I use quotes >_>
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On July 22 2011 10:59 fadestep wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:54 XiGua wrote:On July 22 2011 10:50 dgattt wrote:On July 22 2011 10:49 dgattt wrote:
regardless talking about korean ladder, or NA who temp bans someone for that post? . Does the truth hurt that much that you needed surpress it with a ban. when people tell it how it isthis you ban itthe world aint perfect . if you cant handle people on video a game (how you doing in real life)..you probably shouldnt play itLOL! everyone talks smack get over it act your age ITS STARCRAFT!@!@!@! the girl wanted a pity party, who tries to get sympathized on a video game!?!?!?? "lol slayers_jessica is a joke. Seriously? It's hard for a woman to become masters league in less than a month? That's ridiculous, what does being female have to do with being good or bad? I mean I know a few female players who are masters and masters itself isn't THAT hard to get into. She is acting way too dramatic, and I dunno why she is trying to control the internet, its never going to change. If you can't handle criticism then don't try to be famous/known. I can't express enough how ignorant over half the shit she said was." Goodbye, you don't belong in this community. Learn to show some RESPECT. Did you think Eve TRIED to be famous/known? It's not always something you choose, the internet chose her as a victim and now you don't understand why Jessica is overreacting? Out. Oh really. You are now the gatekeeper of TeamLiquid and you deem him unworthy? He doesn't like that SlayerS is pandering to a player because of gender and is offended by the way they are handling the PR and that means he needs to leave the community? Respect is given where respect is deserved, and although not the most respectful of posts, he says nothing out of line. Out White Knight. TeamLiquid needs less easily offended drones who dramatize everything. Out.
His first 5 words were Slayers_Jessica is a joke. That generally falls out of line with the special moderation note applied at the top of the thread. Lots of better ways to express disappointment.
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It's one part to do what you believe is the best course of action for the team, regardless of community approval.
It's another to going around and writing illogical, emotion-based responses on social media sites trying to justify your decisions.
As a manager, if you truly believed your actions were justified and were the best choices, you shouldn't have been seeking approval nor stir commotion on technicalities that don't even matter. If you did not do X, Y wouldn't have occurred is all I want to point out. Have to be a boss and ignore the haters when they criticize your judgement. You stooped down by addressing them and substantially lowered your credibility and actually brought harm onto Eve.
I have the utmost respect for Boxer and SlayerS. But I cannot agree that your decisions were logical, and strongly believe this was foreseeable and this whole "incident" could have been prevented. Furthermore, I will politely and respectfully conclude, that you in fact did make mistakes, and did cause escalation, and hope you will use this experience in the future.
Best of luck to SlayerS.
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EPT
