|
On July 21 2011 16:04 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:01 baby elephant wrote:
I thought in major sports, teams couldn't just approach a player who's already under contract? Isn't it tampering? Don't teams get punished for that? You say that as if it's a good thing. Professional sports are a corrupt, evil industry who profiteer massively off players and treat them like cattle to be sold. The fact that SC2 players are allowed to actually hear about better opportunities for themselves is great. Are we rooting for players here, or is this another case of "we want our nerd sports to emulate jock sports so we look cool"?
players are completely allowed to persue better opportunities for themselves. if eg was respectful at all about this whole thing and went to tsl about recruiting puma, if he really isn't under a contract of any sort, this thread wouldn't have been made
|
So let's sum up the facts:
1. Puma was NOT under contract to TSL.
2. EG approched Puma with an attractive offer.
3. He liked it, and signed it.
4. Now he's under contract.
What's wrong again?
|
On July 21 2011 16:08 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:06 DystopiaX wrote:without really asking for a contract release How do you ask for a contract release when there is no contract? Why did you conveniently skip over that part of the PlayXP reporting?
Dude the post from TL even said it was PlayXP COMMENTING, not reporting. IE random people equivalent to you or me p[osting what they "heard".
|
On July 21 2011 16:09 IceSlipper wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:07 Angelbelow wrote:On July 21 2011 16:03 SourD wrote:
been lurking at playxp.com for koreans reaction to this (im korean born and raised)
people are saying Puma just let the coach know that he is leaving for EG and just packed his things and left on the 20th without any discussion of this matter.
also, it seems like there was no written contract signed with TSL.
with that, of course the coach had no choice but to announce his release.
this was from just a forum so take it for what it is.
That actually makes a lot of sense. People assuming that this was a "steal" or "easy maneuver" need a little more experience in business (not meant to be condescending). Doesn't make sense for Puma to leave TSL unless there were already issues with the team. FD, trickster and rain leaving COULD be indicative of internal problems. If Puma really didnt have a binding/written contract with TSL, then thats even more hliarious. If TSL was really developing Puma and keeping him happy this would have never happened. To me, this looks terrible for TSL's management and the way they run their team. How do you 'release' someone not under contract? What exactly are you releasing them from?
The team?
|
On July 21 2011 16:08 Karak wrote:
lol @ everyone hating on EG in this thread
This is how the real world works. This is business. This is what happens. There aren't leagues with CBAs and unions for the players, so it's just like any other employer. They can be courted and it's not bad ethics, it's. just. business. Pay him more and he won't stray. If you ever want to see e-sports expand, you need to see competitive salaries for players.
HOWEVER, if Puma breached a contract or EG may have possibly engaged in illegal conduct (and I highly doubt they did), then TSL should pursue legal avenues. They did not. Instead, they voluntarily released their player. Let him out of the contract on their own decision. If they do that, they should keep their mouth shut and move on.
It ends there. It's business and the korean team couldn't compete with what the US team offered. This fostered spirit of competition (in the market, not in SC2 games themselves) is exactly what e-sports needs if y'all want it to grow.
what are you talking about. it's legal but it's bad ethics. do you know anything about business? there's a ton of things you can do that's legal but makes you seem like a dick.
|
On July 21 2011 16:08 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:06 DystopiaX wrote:without really asking for a contract release How do you ask for a contract release when there is no contract? Why did you conveniently skip over that part of the PlayXP reporting?
playxp did not report there being no contract. so yeah..
|
On July 21 2011 16:08 Steelavocado wrote:
WHAT THE FUCK!?!?!? HOLY TITS!!!!
I was just saying the other day that EG needed somemore terran power. With puma as a training partner, IdrA will be the best player in the world.
EG/IdrA/Puma FIGHTING
+ Show Spoiler +
|
I wonder if Puma is staying in Korea, if EG will contract Tasteless as a manager again to have Puma stay with him.
|
On July 21 2011 16:08 ApBuLLet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:03 eggs wrote:On July 21 2011 16:01 .kv wrote:
the Yankees of SC2 lol
this is a sick addition to EG the Yankees only have 1 top player? these sports analogies are getting weaker and weaker. just stop trying. You obviously don't get what he is referring to  although it is still not the best analogy. He just means they are the "yankees of sc2" because the are essentially buying players with unparalleled funding. Or at least that is the speculation. It has nothing to do with the players themselves or their skill or anything close to that.
I like these references to team X that plays a sport Y that no one outside of your own country Z actually follows or knows anything about.
|
On July 21 2011 16:03 10or10 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:54 10or10 wrote:On July 21 2011 15:46 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On July 21 2011 15:44 Shewklad wrote:
Ahh... Good old United States of America. It's all about the $$$ - Too bad you're soon out of $. Low blow. Just for that, we wont be buying any more swedish fish OR meatballs. How do you like them apples? Yeah, it's not like any swedes was involved in the CS1.6 affair with gux, delpan, fnatic & SK. Similiar situation this; like gux-thingy if it Puma wasn't under contract and like delpan if Puma had a contract... either way sirscoots commented on in on Lo3 in a pretty critical manner then so I would assume he has an explanation. some reading for those interested: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227816I don't remember what episode of Lo3 this was discussed, one in may I would assume... anyone know?
I'm very aware of the fact that the players were Swedes. What does that have to do with it? I don't blame Puma for this. I blame the company behind, I understand if Puma wanted to go to EG cause they obviously offered him more money. But EG should've handled this much better, for example, talking to the TSL manager? Or atleast letting them know before Puma did?
|
On July 21 2011 16:09 IceSlipper wrote:
How do you 'release' someone not under contract? What exactly are you releasing them from?
The paternalistic, anti-individual power relationship of "respect", of course.
|
On July 21 2011 16:09 seiferoth10 wrote:
So let's sum up the facts:
1. Puma was NOT under contract to TSL.
2. EG approched Puma with an attractive offer.
3. He liked it, and signed it.
4. Now he's under contract.
What's wrong again?
This is not a fact
http://twitter.com/#!/OrangeMilkis/status/93938939232129024
|
PuMa will regret this move in about 2-3 years. He's only looking at the short term success while ignoring the potential growth of himself and the SC2 community within the Korea. It's easy to pack your bag and leave the country, but not so much the same when you are outside looking in unless you are one of the very bests. Koreans are well known to "not forget" the bad tastes in their mouths. This move will hamper PuMa's growth as an SC2 pro and will set him back by miles down the stretch.
|
On July 21 2011 16:09 seiferoth10 wrote:
So let's sum up the facts:
1. Puma was NOT under contract to TSL.
2. EG approched Puma with an attractive offer.
3. He liked it, and signed it.
4. Now he's under contract.
What's wrong again?
#1 is a playXP rumor, made by a COMMENTER, not a reporter. So no, that's not a "fact" you "know".
|
On July 21 2011 15:59 PHC wrote:
From Milkis's twitter:
OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee
Korean Netizens are quite outraged. Although one of them noted that "not surprising since it's Idra's team"
37 minutes ago
Also, I'm going to fully expect the Korean SC2 Association to do something about this and make some sort of solid FA policy.
33 minutes ago
@hazelynutsc2 clear difference between american thought and korean thought and that americans are pretty disrespectful for thinking its okay
29 minutes ago
Korean Netizens also very disappointed in Puma. Not surprised. If you're surprised then you need to understand our culture a bit better
11 minutes ago
FYI: It's a sign of RESPECT more than anything to talk to the team before contacting the player. I'm sure TSL feels very disrespected
10 minutes ago
Also please stop saying stuff like "he was a practice partner for Flash" as some measure of skill. Just look at KT Rolster FFS
6 minutes ago
ehe. i like the idra one 
|
LOL..you guys getting upset over this and mad at EG are so silly. You realize this happens all the time right? Minigun, Cruncher, Grubby (during wc3), and an endless stream of other players have left their team for another in the past. What makes this case special? Because he's Korean? It's a brilliant move by EG. Puma will actually get a respectable salary now and be able to fly around the world playing video games and having a good time.
If anything, this is an indication that Starcraft 2 is going to be the biggest e-sport to date.
As far disrespecting TSL, I think it's a bit disrespectful to the other players of TSL for the managers to be so worried and angry about losing one player.
|
On July 21 2011 16:09 Corrosive wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:09 IceSlipper wrote:On July 21 2011 16:07 Angelbelow wrote:On July 21 2011 16:03 SourD wrote:
been lurking at playxp.com for koreans reaction to this (im korean born and raised)
people are saying Puma just let the coach know that he is leaving for EG and just packed his things and left on the 20th without any discussion of this matter.
also, it seems like there was no written contract signed with TSL.
with that, of course the coach had no choice but to announce his release.
this was from just a forum so take it for what it is.
That actually makes a lot of sense. People assuming that this was a "steal" or "easy maneuver" need a little more experience in business (not meant to be condescending). Doesn't make sense for Puma to leave TSL unless there were already issues with the team. FD, trickster and rain leaving COULD be indicative of internal problems. If Puma really didnt have a binding/written contract with TSL, then thats even more hliarious. If TSL was really developing Puma and keeping him happy this would have never happened. To me, this looks terrible for TSL's management and the way they run their team. How do you 'release' someone not under contract? What exactly are you releasing them from? The team?
he's not legally ON the team. so he's not being released from anything, he's simply relocating to play w/ other people.
|
On July 21 2011 16:09 PHC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:06 youngminii wrote:On July 21 2011 16:01 TBO wrote:On July 21 2011 15:55 SmOkeYNaGaTa wrote:"There needs to be a system to stop foreign teams from stealing Korean players like this" If teams wish to keep their players, then write a contract. The player gets room, board, a modest salary possibly in exchange for 6 months to a year of loyalty. Problem with this is that a contract won't help if your player wants to leave. Sure you can keep him and keep paying his salary but he won't perform to his normal level. That's also probably the reason TSL straight out decided to release him from his contract. Nonononono Nonono Let me fill you in on Koreans. Koreans have a level of kinship deeper than westerners. If you get together as a team, you will become very close. The coach is a father figure and he wanted what would make Puma happy. If Puma wanted to go and join another team then the coach would let him. This doesn't change the fact that EG is a complete joke of a team who didn't respect TSL as a team, didn't respect SC2 as a sport, didn't respect the Korean culture and they certainly don't respect Puma. The worst part is Puma had such a bright future ahead of him too. lol my korean genes are kicking in for the whole respect thing ==;; QUOTED FOR TRUTH. People need to be looking at this issue through their lens.
I'd much rather look through the lens of Puma.
|
On July 21 2011 16:09 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:06 DystopiaX wrote:On July 21 2011 16:04 IceSlipper wrote:On July 21 2011 16:01 Corrosive wrote:
I dont understand what the big deal is since TSL LET PUMA OUT OF HIS CONTRACT Like they had a choice? Why would they keep someone who no longer has any interest at all in staying on the team? Have a think before you post such nonsense.. You think TSL just let puma out of his contract for no reason and EG signed him before any other team? Thats obviously not what took place.. EG clearly poached puma, then when TSL found out they had no choice but to let their player go.. It's a question of professionalism and contractual obligations but it's also one of respect, and EG doing this make foreign teams look bad/shady IMO. But that's something you've injected yourself - or rather, believed from manager Lee. Surely this event can only tell us about TSL and EG, not Korean teams and foreign teams.
On July 21 2011 16:09 NDsOdapOp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:06 youngminii wrote:On July 21 2011 16:01 TBO wrote:On July 21 2011 15:55 SmOkeYNaGaTa wrote:"There needs to be a system to stop foreign teams from stealing Korean players like this" If teams wish to keep their players, then write a contract. The player gets room, board, a modest salary possibly in exchange for 6 months to a year of loyalty. Problem with this is that a contract won't help if your player wants to leave. Sure you can keep him and keep paying his salary but he won't perform to his normal level. That's also probably the reason TSL straight out decided to release him from his contract. Nonononono Nonono Let me fill you in on Koreans. Koreans have a level of kinship deeper than westerners. If you get together as a team, you will become very close. The coach is a father figure and he wanted what would make Puma happy. If Puma wanted to go and join another team then the coach would let him. This doesn't change the fact that EG is a complete joke of a team who didn't respect TSL as a team, didn't respect SC2 as a sport, didn't respect the Korean culture and they certainly don't respect Puma. The worst part is Puma had such a bright future ahead of him too. lol my korean genes are kicking in for the whole respect thing ==;; lol im sorry but in what way did EG disrespect SC2, and disrespect Puma..... all they did was make a business deal with Puma, and i don't see what difference it would have made if EG had decided to go to the coaches first....
EG didn't disrespect Puma or SC2, just TSL. It's like being the leader of a group and having someone else from another group come in and take half your group and leave, all without telling you. You'd be pissed when you found out, too.
|
On July 21 2011 15:57 Stamper wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:53 Serpico wrote:On July 21 2011 15:53 Shewklad wrote:On July 21 2011 15:47 Serpico wrote:On July 21 2011 15:46 Shewklad wrote:On July 21 2011 15:43 Serpico wrote:On July 21 2011 15:41 Shewklad wrote:On July 21 2011 15:35 babylon wrote:
What the fuck is going on?
Fucking hell. Firstly, this is horrible press for foreign teams. Absolutely shitty. Secondly, going behind management? Dodgy at best. Thirdly, Puma, I know money is great, but you just got 50k USD, and at the very least you could, y'know, wait until your contract expired?
Goddammit, what the hell is wrong with having a little professionalism in SC2? Everything this man just wrote. EG must be one of the most unprofessional teams there is. And I'm pretty sure that Puma will get bored when Incontrol, Idra and machine are "hitting the gym" - While Puma acctualy wants to improve in sc2. Yes, because SC 2 players literally practice so much they can't do anything ever not involved with SC 2. If you used your brain you would understand that what I ment is that Puma is used to practice SO much more then the rest of those guys, and I don't think it will be fitting at all for Puma. Unless Puma played broodwar (I've no idea) as a pro in Korea I'd assume he's never practiced as much as Idra consistently in the same atmosphere. No need to use insults so aggressively kiddo. You seem to know a lot. Did I touch a nerve or something? Good lord you're angry. He kind of has a point there. To my knowledge PuMa used to be Flash's practice partner. Entering a discussion about him without even knowing if he ever played BW is kind of idiotic.
No it's really not, because we're talking about EG acquiring a player and that's the crux of the issue. Don't be stupid.
User was warned for this post
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
