|
On July 24 2011 00:42 speedphlux wrote:
Well, I know from now on I'll be boycotting EG players when they're on a stream in a tournament. If they get featured in a show like The Day[J] Daily, I will also not watch. And I will surely think twice before the next Weapon of Choice and Live on 3 with djWHEAT.
I know that this means just -1 stream viewer, which is a drop in the ocean, but I recon there are others who think like me.
I duno about boycotting but ill defo be rooting for the opponent of EG players from now on. First time iv watched WoC and itll be my last as well
|
On July 23 2011 19:58 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 19:40 Talin wrote:On July 23 2011 19:25 Bayyne wrote:
Maybe he created a bad image in KOR, but I'd argue most people with some sense of business acumen outside of KOR would realize he's just doing business. So it's pretty hard to appease two different business mentalities (KOR based on tradition, loyalty, etc; West based essentially on risk/reward investment) and make everyone happy. One side is always going to think EG is shady.
But at the end of the day, Puma will get more benefits in the long run if he joins up with EG. This isn't as cultural as you would have it - EG has made a lot of anti-fans both here and in Korea. Even if it's "just doing business", that doesn't mean it's acceptable by many people's standards in the foreign Starcraft scene. Doing business is no excuse for being sly and shady and screwing over another team. As for benefits in the long run, no way. He gets some INSTANT benefits yeah, but in the long run he's finished as a top tier progamer - it's over for him if he has ambitions to be competitive at the highest level of pro SC2. Staying on TSL would have been a much better choice in the long run, or joining another Korean team at least. Do you have a crystal ball or something? There is is no freaking way you can say where Puma will be skill-wise in 3-4 years.
Of course I can. It's called making a prediction.
|
On July 24 2011 00:50 Zeri wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:42 speedphlux wrote:
Well, I know from now on I'll be boycotting EG players when they're on a stream in a tournament. If they get featured in a show like The Day[J] Daily, I will also not watch. And I will surely think twice before the next Weapon of Choice and Live on 3 with djWHEAT.
I know that this means just -1 stream viewer, which is a drop in the ocean, but I recon there are others who think like me. what? I don't even.... whaaaaaaaaaa-? Sure, you might take TSL's 'side' in this.. (if you can even call it taking sides), and sure its ok if this left you with a little less than love for EG... but you are actively going to try and hurt them because of it? Seriously? that, sir. is hilarious.
people boycott stuff all the time. it's not unreasonable or wrong. what else is he(or she) supposed to do to show distaste for EG? it's actually one of the more reasonable ways of protesting
|
Actually I don't think boycotting is inappropriate. But there's not enough good content around to boycott EG related events. And by not watching Day9 or MLG, you are hurting them, not EG.
I won't show my support by not clicking on ads, something I normally do because takes no effort.
|
On July 24 2011 01:06 GoStyle wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:42 speedphlux wrote:
Well, I know from now on I'll be boycotting EG players when they're on a stream in a tournament. If they get featured in a show like The Day[J] Daily, I will also not watch. And I will surely think twice before the next Weapon of Choice and Live on 3 with djWHEAT.
I know that this means just -1 stream viewer, which is a drop in the ocean, but I recon there are others who think like me. I duno about boycotting but ill defo be rooting for the opponent of EG players from now on. First time iv watched WoC and itll be my last as well
I don't think I'm ever going to watch something with wheat in it again unless I have to for some reason and it's unavoidable.
|
On July 24 2011 00:41 GoStyle wrote:Show nested quote +
sigh. you specifically stated there would be a difference between the US and EU. come, let me quote your post twice to help you understand your own words:
Well in the UK for example all of the top orgs know each other as they attend LANs regular so there is no team poaching by the management (as they are friends). Teams/players approach orgs if they are interested and when your in a team its down to the team to recruit / kick. So generally players will speak with players about joining their teams or if an org has an open spot then teams speak to the orgs about filling it. Also as the orgs all know each other they tend to pass on info to each other about certain teams/players they have had experience with so if your a dickhead or clan hopper etc you tend not to be taken in by most top orgs as they share info. Similarly if an org was to poach a player then that stigma would be carried by the org and more often than not would only attract clan hoppers. Live by the sword die by the sword kinda style.. Glad i could clear that up for your sir! so like i said, its totally different over here
Then you must have neither followed the WC3, Quake, HL nor Dota scene. Furthermore, please do provide proof on how things differ from that in the US. All you do is attempting to describe the EU and claiming it would be different from the US.
|
I don't think I'm ever going to watch something with wheat in it again unless I have to for some reason and it's unavoidable.
agreed
|
Then you must have neither followed the WC3, Quake, HL nor Dota scene. Furthermore, please do provide proof on how things differ from that in the US. All you do is attempting to describe the EU and claiming it would be different from the US.
wtf u talking about.. i WAS IN THE wc3 + css scene and im talking about ENGLAND which last time i checked is in europe... Also the UK orgs are probably as/more international than the american ones. Thats why i responded to "this is how international blablabla is done" when its not always that way.
Read what i said... i have a wc3 + css background, who is talking about Quake? or dota? HL? Im talking from experience, not heresay
please do provide proof on how things differ from that in the US
.... that is kinda what this whole f****** thread is about you momo lol
|
On July 24 2011 01:05 Adila wrote:
The only unprofessional thing about all this was the PR from TSL, EG, and Puma.
Nothing else was shady as far as I can tell. Anyone who thinks there was shady business on EG's part based on the evidence so far needs to get out of the basement and enter the real world.
And anyone who thinks the PR from TSL was unprofessional needs to enter the real world too. They were not bound by any NDA with EG. so it was fair game for them to release that PuMa leaves the team. that's why EG should have spoken with TSL - not to be a nice company but to prevent a media disaster like the one that happened and anyone blaming anyone for overreating just needs to enter the real world too.
TSL completely accomplished what they wanted by going public without doing anything disrespectful (If it is not disrespectful for EG to not speak with TSL why should TSL speak with EG before - no contracts  ).
EG might be good at contractual stuff but TSL certainly is the pro on PR side and EG should step out of their cozy kindergarten.
|
On July 24 2011 00:25 Telcontar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:20 PHILtheTANK wrote:On July 23 2011 14:13 Milkis wrote:On July 23 2011 11:04 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On July 23 2011 10:36 Angelbelow wrote:On July 23 2011 10:05 NightAngel wrote:On July 23 2011 09:49 azka wrote:On July 23 2011 09:41 NightAngel wrote:On July 23 2011 09:39 azka wrote:On July 23 2011 09:32 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:
[quote]
Ok, so if I understand you correctly. Being polite and careful while stating your/company opinion is bad, but being blunt and careless is ok?
Or is it a sign of Intelligence, therefore you are calling the original poster less intelligent?
I am a bit confused.
I don't see where I'm calling Milkis less intelligent. He was intelligent enough to understand what Alex was trying to do and stop him there. But basically Alex said: "you are responsible but I'm not blaming you." Not a big deal since he didn't got any effect on Milkis future posts/tweets. I think he also wanted to point out that by being a simple OP, you could have major implications for the parties involved based on the amount of information you include at the time of your post. Yes, but why he would point that, when he lacked to contact the OP via PM to make a "quote"? Look at Major's SEA incident post, where all parts tried to participate. You cannot blame Milkis for the lack of information from EG. That's EG's fault, not Milkis. Or maybe it is Coach Lee's fault for making a ranting Twitter post in a state of anger? Who knows. What I do know is that I feel like several parties involved could have gone about this in a better way. I would stop, if fans are still arguing about this they will never stop. Theres a good chance that they hated EG from the beginning and will continue to throw eggs at them no matter what. So you should just save your time =p Milkis translated information that was ultimately incorrect. To blame EG for not being quick enough to correct this is pretty unfair but these kids wont listen. It is fair in the context of EG blaming Milkis for not getting a statement from them. Milkis tried. EG refused (Sir Scoots had more important things to do). Their delayed response is their fault. What information was incorrect? To be fair neither articles said anything about him being signed, just that puma left TSL so that he could join EG. Neither articles said anything about a contract, just that EG made an offer which is absolutely true  Well it said that EG claimed that Puma approached them first, which was incorrect. I guess to them, the owner of the team handing out business cards to the players doesn't count as an 'approach'.
At this point something is really clear. While most negotiations with other foreigner teams (FXO+fOu, oGs+SK, coL + MVP) have wide support by everyone, EGs reputation is damaged and probably will have consequences that may difficult future transactions with other Korean players, not only for them but for everyone.
Milkis translated a post, accurate or not, he's just a translator and even with AG blaming him (not blaming him) the reality is Milkis post doesn't matter since all this problem is with the Koreans (playXP not TL).
EG gets the worse part.
|
On July 24 2011 01:26 GoStyle wrote:Show nested quote +
Then you must have neither followed the WC3, Quake, HL nor Dota scene. Furthermore, please do provide proof on how things differ from that in the US. All you do is attempting to describe the EU and claiming it would be different from the US.
wtf u talking about.. i WAS IN THE wc3 + css scene and im talking about ENGLAND which last time i checked is in europe... Also the UK orgs are probably as/more international than the american ones. Thats why i responded to "this is how international blablabla is done" when its not always that way. Read what i said... i have a wc3 + css background, who is talking about Quake? or dota? HL?
then refrain from speaking of "the EU" and "the US", since you only speak on behalf of the "UK wc3 + css" scene. and since you admittedly lack insight on every other scene you cannot possibly make statements comparing it to the US or the rest of EU.as a whole.
a legit statement would have been "i know how things are done in the UK in wc3 and css". period.
On July 24 2011 01:26 GoStyle wrote:.... that is kinda what this whole f****** thread is about you momo lol
This thead is about "Puma leaves for EG", specifically the actions and course of events from the three parties involved namely EG, TSL and PumA as a person.
You claim the whole US scene is different from the whole EU scene, while all your knowledge is really limited to the UK wc3+css scene.
|
then refrain from speaking of "the EU scene", since you only speak on behalf of the "UK wc3 + css" scene. and since you admittedly lack insight on every other scene you cannot possibly make statements comparing it to the US or the rest of EU.as a whole.
a legit statement would have been "i know how things are done in the UK in wc3 and css". period.
As i have said, the UK orgs are as much if not more international than the US ones so they should refrain from saying thats how international orgs run then by your logic? Also i know thats how germany css was run when i was playing it along with all of the other major countrys (swe, france etc) for the most part.
Also i never compared things as a whole, i specifically said THE UK in my posts and as iv repeatidly said, they are probably more international than US. Also the UK css scene was for a crazy long time wayyyyyy top of the EU scene for a good while until france took over so it kinda suggests they had the correct ways of developing teams, not just cherry picking players as EG suggest. Not to mention when 4Kings was around in wc3 (players such a grubby, ToD, demuslim, Creo etc etc) They were probably the best in the world.... again an english org with insane international presence
like i said, im talking from experience and your just a keyboard viking
|
On July 24 2011 01:18 GoStyle wrote:Show nested quote +
I don't think I'm ever going to watch something with wheat in it again unless I have to for some reason and it's unavoidable.
agreed
it was like fox news or some shit
|
I do not see this situation as any different then when you work at your current job, and without the boss permission you go to interview at a different company and then get hired and quite your current job. Yes your current company and boss are surprised or disappointed but hey that is life. You have to be in it to win it and make your own decisions right or wrong. Do Koreans think its right or wrong? I dont know and that is something Puma had to decide, but from a legal stand point Puma can do whatever the hell he wants.
|
On July 24 2011 00:25 Telcontar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:20 PHILtheTANK wrote:On July 23 2011 14:13 Milkis wrote:On July 23 2011 11:04 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On July 23 2011 10:36 Angelbelow wrote:On July 23 2011 10:05 NightAngel wrote:On July 23 2011 09:49 azka wrote:On July 23 2011 09:41 NightAngel wrote:On July 23 2011 09:39 azka wrote:On July 23 2011 09:32 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:
[quote]
Ok, so if I understand you correctly. Being polite and careful while stating your/company opinion is bad, but being blunt and careless is ok?
Or is it a sign of Intelligence, therefore you are calling the original poster less intelligent?
I am a bit confused.
I don't see where I'm calling Milkis less intelligent. He was intelligent enough to understand what Alex was trying to do and stop him there. But basically Alex said: "you are responsible but I'm not blaming you." Not a big deal since he didn't got any effect on Milkis future posts/tweets. I think he also wanted to point out that by being a simple OP, you could have major implications for the parties involved based on the amount of information you include at the time of your post. Yes, but why he would point that, when he lacked to contact the OP via PM to make a "quote"? Look at Major's SEA incident post, where all parts tried to participate. You cannot blame Milkis for the lack of information from EG. That's EG's fault, not Milkis. Or maybe it is Coach Lee's fault for making a ranting Twitter post in a state of anger? Who knows. What I do know is that I feel like several parties involved could have gone about this in a better way. I would stop, if fans are still arguing about this they will never stop. Theres a good chance that they hated EG from the beginning and will continue to throw eggs at them no matter what. So you should just save your time =p Milkis translated information that was ultimately incorrect. To blame EG for not being quick enough to correct this is pretty unfair but these kids wont listen. It is fair in the context of EG blaming Milkis for not getting a statement from them. Milkis tried. EG refused (Sir Scoots had more important things to do). Their delayed response is their fault. What information was incorrect? To be fair neither articles said anything about him being signed, just that puma left TSL so that he could join EG. Neither articles said anything about a contract, just that EG made an offer which is absolutely true Well it said that EG claimed that Puma approached them first, which was incorrect. I guess to them, the owner of the team handing out business cards to the players doesn't count as an 'approach'.
nah because it didn't say that Puma approached EG first, it said that EG CLAIMED that Puma approached them, even tho we know thats not true from WoC.
|
On July 24 2011 01:26 TBO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 01:05 Adila wrote:
The only unprofessional thing about all this was the PR from TSL, EG, and Puma.
Nothing else was shady as far as I can tell. Anyone who thinks there was shady business on EG's part based on the evidence so far needs to get out of the basement and enter the real world. And anyone who thinks the PR from TSL was unprofessional needs to enter the real world too. They were not bound by any NDA with EG. so it was fair game for them to release that PuMa leaves the team. that's why EG should have spoken with TSL - not to be a nice company but to prevent a media disaster like the one that happened and anyone blaming anyone for overreating just needs to enter the real world too. TSL completely accomplished what they wanted by going public without doing anything disrespectful (If it is not disrespectful for EG to not speak with TSL why should TSL speak with EG before - no contracts ). EG might be good at contractual stuff but TSL certainly is the pro on PR side and EG should step out of their cozy kindergarten.
I like the way you framed this.
|
On July 24 2011 01:43 snakeeyez wrote:
I do not see this situation as any different then when you work at your current job, and without the boss permission you go to interview at a different company and then get hired and quite your current job. Yes your current company and boss are surprised or disappointed but hey that is life. You have to be in it to win it and make your own decisions right or wrong. Do Koreans think its right or wrong? I dont know and that is something Puma had to decide, but from a legal stand point Puma can do whatever the hell he wants.
If I was your boss and you were sent with company money somewhere to represent the company, and in that time you were negotiating another employment (i.e. not using that time to promote the company/sponsors and do your actual job), I'd sue your ass, contract or no contract, and chances are I'd win. PuMa got off easy, and what he and EG did was wrong.
|
On July 24 2011 01:49 svarog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 01:43 snakeeyez wrote:
I do not see this situation as any different then when you work at your current job, and without the boss permission you go to interview at a different company and then get hired and quite your current job. Yes your current company and boss are surprised or disappointed but hey that is life. You have to be in it to win it and make your own decisions right or wrong. Do Koreans think its right or wrong? I dont know and that is something Puma had to decide, but from a legal stand point Puma can do whatever the hell he wants. If I was your boss and you were sent with company money somewhere to represent the company, and in that time you were negotiating another employment (i.e. not using that time to promote the company/sponsors and do your actual job), I'd sue your ass, contract or no contract, and chances are I'd win. PuMa got off easy, and what he and EG did was wrong.
Except you wouldn't win, at all, because that's a retarded case =|
|
If I was your boss and you were sent with company money somewhere to represent the company, and in that time you were negotiating another employment (i.e. not using that time to promote the company/sponsors and do your actual job), I'd sue your ass, contract or no contract, and chances are I'd win. PuMa got off easy, and what he and EG did was wrong.
Yup, well said
|
On July 24 2011 00:42 speedphlux wrote:
Well, I know from now on I'll be boycotting EG players when they're on a stream in a tournament. If they get featured in a show like The Day[J] Daily, I will also not watch. And I will surely think twice before the next Weapon of Choice and Live on 3 with djWHEAT.
I know that this means just -1 stream viewer, which is a drop in the ocean, but I recon there are others who think like me.
As someone who's met the members of EG in real life (at MLG Columbus), I can tell you that they're incredibly nice people. Even if you don't like the way that Puma was acquired (it's business, suck it up?), it's ridiculous to take your hatred out on people who had nothing to do with that deal. (You're not going to support Day[9] now? lol.) EG wanted Puma and Puma wanted EG. TSL couldn't provide Puma with the goods, and didn't even own Puma to begin with.
Some people really need to get a reality check as far as pro-gaming goes. Yeah, there's a community built in from your team, but you also need money. It's also a job. The career of a pro-gamer is not long. It would be nice for pro-gamers to have a little something to bank when all is said and done. And a contract for security. TSL didn't provide that, and EG offered it. Not demanded it or tricked Puma into signing anything or put a gun to his head. That's how teams work, and that's how a lot of pro-gamers- who would actually like to reach their goals- see things. I don't blame EG or Puma or even TSL, because there was no mistake or error made. A player simply agreed to play for a team that would give him the salary and security that he wanted. That's... a very common sense move. The cultural sensitivity accusation is nonsensical, because Puma told EG that he would talk to Coach Lee (Puma's a big boy and can make his own decisions). And the rest is just business.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
