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Mioraka
Canada1353 Posts
On July 23 2011 14:17 starcraft2rush wrote: Slaves were given food and shelter..they weren't paid though........... ... ... . . . . ... .ofc slaves were forced. But it's simply a comparison. According to your every sc2 progamer in Korea is comparable to slaves. And they should get out of Korea at the first given chance. | ||
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StreetHeat
United States225 Posts
Slaves Didn't get the opportunity to win 50,000 fucking dollars!!! Yeah you can talk about how he wasn't getting a salary, but do you honestly believe anyone could have won NASL without the training environment he was given by TSL? Could anyone be at the level those guys are at just by laddering? Room and board is taken care of and you get to play video games all day to develop the skills to make serious money. Hell, even if you are making a salary, with the time you have to put in to win GSL what the hell are you going to do with it? You want nice things? Win a fucking tournament. Can't win a tournament? Then go to school and get a real job. Now on the other side of that I do think thatsit's wrong for players to have to give up some of their winnings to the team, if anything teams should be giving players a bonus for bringing prestige to the team which in turn can lead to more sponsor money. Look at the foreign teams, there's plenty of salaried players who have shown no results what so ever. If it's only about the salary then why would anyone compete in the Olympics? | ||
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Vinski
505 Posts
On July 23 2011 15:38 Mioraka wrote: According to your every sc2 progamer in Korea is comparable to slaves. And they should get out of Korea at the first given chance. I made a similar statement earlier on. Its like if I were to work on a crab fishing boat and not get payed because I have shelter and food on the damn boat. No I would much rather get payed and do the same thing so I can move up in life. I'm sure puma would much rather get a salary than be stuck in a damn teamhouse all his life. | ||
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gregnog
United States289 Posts
Sorry Koreans. Pay your professionals what they are worth, stop pretending shoving 15 boys into 2 rooms is a paradise that they should treasure forever. I hope all these cheapskate managers/teams lose more top players. | ||
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Madder
Australia427 Posts
On July 23 2011 15:59 gregnog wrote: So instead of being payed benefits and having a standardized check with normal income you think a place to live and a place to... do your job is pay enough? Sorry, just because you get to play video games and live the "dream life" that some of you are imagining dose not equal out to real money and a way to support yourself or family. Sorry, your all naive. That house did not make him the player he is right now, I am sure it helped, but to say that the house is the only reason... he was a SC1 pro already. Where did he practice as a SC1 pro? | ||
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ghrur
United States3786 Posts
I believe he played for estro. | ||
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Runsy
Sweden7 Posts
I respect everyones opinion but i kinda feel that some stuff ppl are taking to personaly. We do not know the hole story yet. (Dont think we ever will) From what i know Puma isnt signed yet, so sofar all EG has done is talk to a player that wanted out from his erlier team (or am i wrong on this?) AG/EG could have done this in a diffirent way, yes. I do think that alot of this is a cultural missunderstanding from bouth parts and neither part wants to admit they did something wrong. About AG's statements towards Milkis on WoC, im not going to bring it up. Since it has nothing to do with the TSL-EG-Puma thing realy. (Sorry for the bad english, i do how ever hope u understand what im saying, i speak better then i type. In swedish aswell) | ||
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Angry.Zerg
Mexico305 Posts
While FXO+fOu, Rain to Fnatic, NaDa and MC -> SK, Col + MVP, etc. are being strongly supported by both communities, Puma -> EG it's being a point of controversy and will mess up future deals with other KR players. | ||
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gregnog
United States289 Posts
Go give up your job for your own square meter of living space and see how you feel. Oh but wait... your playing a video game and you get to... eat food... who needs money? | ||
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Lamppost
Canada317 Posts
Puma made a decision. I have no idea why you would discuss it further than this. Edit: I'd also like to add that not having players under contract is dumb and senseless. Fact is contracts are what legally bind a player to represent and support there team. If puma wasn't under contract why would he not accept a better offer? Handshakes mean little when were talking about someones life. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
Yes people can say it's my fault for leaving the door open, it's like inviting thieves to come and steal, but in the end of the day, to steal or not to steal is a decision of a person who knows my door is open, and only thieves will come and steal my stuff, other people will simply ignore, maybe even kind enough to tell me to close the door. | ||
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LucyApple
16 Posts
On July 23 2011 15:55 Vinski wrote: I made a similar statement earlier on. Its like if I were to work on a crab fishing boat and not get payed because I have shelter and food on the damn boat. No I would much rather get payed and do the same thing so I can move up in life. I'm sure puma would much rather get a salary than be stuck in a damn teamhouse all his life. This guy does bring up a good argument on the having salary thingy. Hopefully after this, life will get better for the Korean B-teamers and practice partners as possibly in the near future, 1a. Korean teams gives all their players salary (including practice partners), but players (only for b-teamers and practice partners) will have to pay for their own living expense in the team house (meals, travel, etc). - players get to manage their money and savings, then can move up in life. 2. An organization is set up to ensure teams pay their players and protect player rights. Practice partner on a team = Past time job Recruiting talent to join a team = Job trial As for the player's point of view, the guy in the other thread pretty much sum it up, On July 23 2011 12:36 Duravi wrote: I think most people on TL understand he was a 19 year old kid offered money from a foreign team when he currently wasn't making any and put in a difficult situation. Also a very interesting perceptive from a Korean in the "Korean Reaction to Puma's Situation" thread, "If people want to live well they need to have connections and good standings with other people, so you need to finish something positively. Even with part time jobs you tell your boss a few days before you quit and just because Puma got a single win he thinks he can act like this and leave without telling the coach lololol " | ||
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Lamppost
Canada317 Posts
On July 23 2011 17:32 canikizu wrote: If I leave the door open, and someone comes in and takes my property, it's called stealing. Yes people can say it's my fault for leaving the door open, it's like inviting thieves to come and steal, but in the end of the day, to steal or not to steal is a decision of a person who knows my door is open, and only thieves will come and steal my stuff, other people will simply ignore, maybe even kind enough to tell me to close the door. That analogy doesn't even fit I even tried to make it fit. No one stole anything. Your stuff simply left because it didn't like you :D | ||
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TheSchwA
United States248 Posts
But, since we're in the conversation of it. SC2 is a job for these people. PuMa was essentially just a volunteer who got offered a paying job from EG. If he's going to be a professional player, why not get paid? Isn't that how it works? Oh well, that's just my 2 cents, I couldn't honestly care less. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On July 23 2011 17:32 canikizu wrote: If I leave the door open, and someone comes in and takes my property, it's called stealing. Yes people can say it's my fault for leaving the door open, it's like inviting thieves to come and steal, but in the end of the day, to steal or not to steal is a decision of a person who knows my door is open, and only thieves will come and steal my stuff, other people will simply ignore, maybe even kind enough to tell me to close the door. And this is nothing like what happened. EG didn't just take Puma away. People have this thing called free will, unlike your stolen stuff. EG made an offer and Puma accepted. He made the decision to leave TSL. EG didnt grab him and run. Thats why its not stealing. Puma decided to leave on his own. | ||
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zeru
8156 Posts
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thanhbao86
Canada199 Posts
About Puma case, I know he is good but without the Korean practice environment, could he keep his level. Also, you kinda need practice partners, ladder won't help as much. Korean netizens and gamers kinda hate him now. Fruit Dealer speaks out on his twitter and many others. He will have a hard time finding practice partner. He will be left with EG players and frankly, except Idra i don't think EG players can help him much. This deal may not be that ideal after all. Puma can go to foreign tournament now but so will many other Koreans (in fact, every big foreign tournaments have at least 5-10 Koreans already). Whatever has happened, EG is already in a big mess and has displeased many sc fans. Thing may not even get better for them. Moreover, whatever AG has said about how Korean system does not work has been proved wrong, it works for other teams (Complexity, Dignitas, ...). He lost his credibility and EG created bad reputation in Korea. I can only see for now this is a bad move of EG (or AG), but maybe Puma will be Flash of SC2 and that would change everything. EG as a pro gaming team has been involved with too many dramas. No publicity is bad but seriously they need better PR and management teams that could handle issues better. | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2598 Posts
On July 23 2011 17:32 canikizu wrote: If I leave the door open, and someone comes in and takes my property, it's called stealing. Yes people can say it's my fault for leaving the door open, it's like inviting thieves to come and steal, but in the end of the day, to steal or not to steal is a decision of a person who knows my door is open, and only thieves will come and steal my stuff, other people will simply ignore, maybe even kind enough to tell me to close the door. I'm imagining iNcontrol showing up at Coach Lee's door. "Sir, I'm not sure if you noticed, but you have a bunch of progamers sitting around without contracts!" Alternatively, a press release reading "Team Evil Geniuses is happy to announce that several of the flat screen televisions and XBox 360s they've recently made offers to have agreed to take up positions in the EG progaming house." | ||
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Madder
Australia427 Posts
On July 23 2011 17:22 gregnog wrote: Go give up your job for your own square meter of living space and see how you feel. Oh but wait... your playing a video game and you get to... eat food... who needs money? You didn't even answer my question, dude. But thanks to ghrur, I now know he formally played for eStro. | ||
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Bayyne
United States1967 Posts
On July 23 2011 18:30 thanhbao86 wrote: Right or wrong, EG has made a bad image in Korea. No teams will want to deal with AG now unless he gives out a shit ton of money. About Puma case, I know he is good but without the Korean practice environment, could he keep his level. Also, you kinda need practice partners, ladder won't help as much. Korean netizens and gamers kinda hate him now. Fruit Dealer speaks out on his twitter and many others. He will have a hard time finding practice partner. He will be left with EG players and frankly, except Idra i don't think EG players can help him much. This deal may not be that ideal after all. Puma can go to foreign tournament now but so will many other Koreans (in fact, every big foreign tournaments have at least 5-10 Koreans already). Whatever has happened, EG is already in a big mess and has displeased many sc fans. Thing may not even get better for them. Moreover, whatever AG has said about how Korean system does not work has been proved wrong, it works for other teams (Complexity, Dignitas, ...). He lost his credibility and EG created bad reputation in Korea. I can only see for now this is a bad move of EG (or AG), but maybe Puma will be Flash of SC2 and that would change everything. EG as a pro gaming team has been involved with too many dramas. No publicity is bad but seriously they need better PR and management teams that could handle issues better. Maybe he created a bad image in KOR, but I'd argue most people with some sense of business acumen outside of KOR would realize he's just doing business. So it's pretty hard to appease two different business mentalities (KOR based on tradition, loyalty, etc; West based essentially on risk/reward investment) and make everyone happy. One side is always going to think EG is shady. But at the end of the day, Puma will get more benefits in the long run if he joins up with EG. | ||
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