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On July 20 2011 01:41 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 01:39 Odal wrote:On July 20 2011 01:34 fush wrote:On July 20 2011 01:27 Odal wrote:On July 20 2011 01:25 RedJustice wrote:
I think some of her reaction is justified. Saying cruel and derogatory things about people/posting crude pictures, etc is not ok, especially when it's widespread.
Reacting to criticism/disappointment/dislike from people is ridiculous. Not everyone likes you irl either. You are not perfect and should learn to accept that some people will point out your flaws and disapprove of things you do.
She should take like... 3-5 of the most serious offenders to the police. I am sure the most serious problems amount to harassment and by taking some to the police that might help stop the legitimate problems they encounter. Sorry, but a 16 year old girl making comments about how good your English is isn't a legit problem. If she takes every little thing like that the police, she just makes a complete fool of herself. I hope she stops to make an intelligent choices about what she chooses to pursue legally instead of whining every time her feelings are hurt. If we can't even make fun of people on the internet, the internet will become boring as shit. It's sounds like I'm an asshole, but everyone knows this is true. since when is posting malicious/sexist/explicit images specifically targetted at a single person and spreading them around the net considered "making fun" of someone? if some idiot posted a picture of you photoshopped into a gay sex scene, put it around your work/school, sent it to your wife/gf/parents/kids, you think that's just some guy making fun of you for shits and giggles? dunno about you but i'd rather see witty comments or actually funny shit online than retarded 4chan image memes. Well just because you don't like something doesn't mean you can make it disappear. People will always be dicks on the internet, and that is fact. This is actually a terrible argument. There will always be criminals, that is a fact, but we still need police and prisons to discourage people. I'm actually not too torn about going after some hardcore assholes but Jessica seems to be slapping everyone into one big group and saying "Fuck them all".
She gave the a list of people who may or may not be guilty, of being hardcore dicks. Who gets killed is up for the cops to decide
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On July 20 2011 01:25 kzn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 01:19 PHC wrote:On July 20 2011 01:13 denzelz wrote:On July 20 2011 01:11 branflakes14 wrote:On July 20 2011 01:10 Wrongspeedy wrote:On July 20 2011 01:08 denzelz wrote:On July 20 2011 00:59 PrimeTimey wrote:On July 20 2011 00:54 PHC wrote:On July 20 2011 00:44 PrimeTimey wrote:O MY GOD HE MADE FUN OF ME.. NOOOOOO  I might go kill myself She had low self esteem? What can we do about it create laws where people can't have freedom of speech on the internet? lol get real Cyber-bullying is illegal. In the U.S., all 50 states have laws that prohibit online stalking, harassment, and bullying. Why should you be allowed to harass another person on the Internet without consequence? I can't believe people are actually defending those who viciously attack others on the Internet. Don't bother with PrimeTimey, he has already told more than one person who commmited suicide to toughen up. Seriously not worth the time. Don't worry, I don't think she took offense at him saying it. The criteria of who is allowed to post on TL has seriously declined over the years. Users who made comments like these would have been instant banned a year ago. It's absolutely disgusting. The fact that I even bothered trying to ask these users to look at in another culture's perspective and to try understand it from their point of view was a complete waste of time. They are too busy subtly injecting their points on freedom of speech and their personal views on "internet" and "bullying" when it has little relevance to what the OP is about. What you have consistently failed to grasp is that once the discussion evolved into a broader discussion on whether or not the libel laws in Korea make any sense at all, "culture" stopped having anything at all to do with it. Cultural relativism is utter bullshit, and should be treated as such.
Libel laws in Korea making sense or not was not the issue. The issue was the severe harm that Korean netizens can do with their cyberbullying to people in the limelight. I mentioned and gave plenty of examples of people getting scarred for life because of it.
Making fun of people that commit suicide due to said harm doesn't add to the discussion does it? With that being said, should police sort it out themselves because of the potential threat that every critic has? Or would it have been wiser to be more selective with who to take to the police? Even the 16 year old? Now the girl is pissed off and may even be more dangerous than some of the inappropriate netizens.
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she may be overreacting, but at the same time there is a lot of pressure on her and if shes getting a lot of hate mail it can be really overwhelming.
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On July 20 2011 01:45 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 01:41 Mordiford wrote:On July 20 2011 01:39 Odal wrote:On July 20 2011 01:34 fush wrote:On July 20 2011 01:27 Odal wrote:On July 20 2011 01:25 RedJustice wrote:
I think some of her reaction is justified. Saying cruel and derogatory things about people/posting crude pictures, etc is not ok, especially when it's widespread.
Reacting to criticism/disappointment/dislike from people is ridiculous. Not everyone likes you irl either. You are not perfect and should learn to accept that some people will point out your flaws and disapprove of things you do.
She should take like... 3-5 of the most serious offenders to the police. I am sure the most serious problems amount to harassment and by taking some to the police that might help stop the legitimate problems they encounter. Sorry, but a 16 year old girl making comments about how good your English is isn't a legit problem. If she takes every little thing like that the police, she just makes a complete fool of herself. I hope she stops to make an intelligent choices about what she chooses to pursue legally instead of whining every time her feelings are hurt. If we can't even make fun of people on the internet, the internet will become boring as shit. It's sounds like I'm an asshole, but everyone knows this is true. since when is posting malicious/sexist/explicit images specifically targetted at a single person and spreading them around the net considered "making fun" of someone? if some idiot posted a picture of you photoshopped into a gay sex scene, put it around your work/school, sent it to your wife/gf/parents/kids, you think that's just some guy making fun of you for shits and giggles? dunno about you but i'd rather see witty comments or actually funny shit online than retarded 4chan image memes. Well just because you don't like something doesn't mean you can make it disappear. People will always be dicks on the internet, and that is fact. This is actually a terrible argument. There will always be criminals, that is a fact, but we still need police and prisons to discourage people. I'm actually not too torn about going after some hardcore assholes but Jessica seems to be slapping everyone into one big group and saying "Fuck them all". She gave the a list of people who may or may not be guilty, of being hardcore dicks. Who gets killed is up for the cops to decide
"Who gets killed" is an excellent summary of what many people in this thread seem to represent. Hey, how about I give the police a list of everybody I've ever known, some of them might have called me some mean names. Let them sort it out! Surely the police have nothing better do to at this time.
No, I'm just kidding. This whole thing is a waste of time for everyone involved.
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Poor Boxer
![[image loading]](http://kattekliek.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/someone_is_wrong_on_the_internet.jpg)
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On July 20 2011 01:45 PHC wrote:
Libel laws in Korea making sense or not was not the issue. The issue was the severe harm that Korean netizens can do with their cyberbullying to people in the limelight. I mentioned and gave plenty of examples of people getting scarred for life because of it.
Except in almost every case the root cause was something completely different, or the "severe harm" was completely laughable.
Making fun of people that commit suicide due to said harm doesn't add to the discussion does it? With that being said, should police sort it out themselves because of the potential threat that every critic has? Or would it have been wiser to be more selective with who to take to the police? Even the 16 year old? Now the girl is pissed off and may even be more dangerous than some of the inappropriate netizens.
Better to make fun of it than treat it as some holy grail that grants you the moral high ground in every argument.
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On July 20 2011 01:45 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 01:41 Mordiford wrote:On July 20 2011 01:39 Odal wrote:On July 20 2011 01:34 fush wrote:On July 20 2011 01:27 Odal wrote:On July 20 2011 01:25 RedJustice wrote:
I think some of her reaction is justified. Saying cruel and derogatory things about people/posting crude pictures, etc is not ok, especially when it's widespread.
Reacting to criticism/disappointment/dislike from people is ridiculous. Not everyone likes you irl either. You are not perfect and should learn to accept that some people will point out your flaws and disapprove of things you do.
She should take like... 3-5 of the most serious offenders to the police. I am sure the most serious problems amount to harassment and by taking some to the police that might help stop the legitimate problems they encounter. Sorry, but a 16 year old girl making comments about how good your English is isn't a legit problem. If she takes every little thing like that the police, she just makes a complete fool of herself. I hope she stops to make an intelligent choices about what she chooses to pursue legally instead of whining every time her feelings are hurt. If we can't even make fun of people on the internet, the internet will become boring as shit. It's sounds like I'm an asshole, but everyone knows this is true. since when is posting malicious/sexist/explicit images specifically targetted at a single person and spreading them around the net considered "making fun" of someone? if some idiot posted a picture of you photoshopped into a gay sex scene, put it around your work/school, sent it to your wife/gf/parents/kids, you think that's just some guy making fun of you for shits and giggles? dunno about you but i'd rather see witty comments or actually funny shit online than retarded 4chan image memes. Well just because you don't like something doesn't mean you can make it disappear. People will always be dicks on the internet, and that is fact. This is actually a terrible argument. There will always be criminals, that is a fact, but we still need police and prisons to discourage people. I'm actually not too torn about going after some hardcore assholes but Jessica seems to be slapping everyone into one big group and saying "Fuck them all". She gave the a list of people who may or may not be guilty, of being hardcore dicks. Who gets killed is up for the cops to decide
Yeah, but she shouldn't have done that in my opinion. Picking out the handful of hardcore dicks for submission would be more apt, lumping everyone together and saying the cops will handle it is absurd to me because she's still picking these comments out and apparently she thinks anyone who says anything negative is up for prosecution.
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that many people still do not recognize as crime.
suing is a bad thing?
Overreacting to crime?
I Don't Think So.
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On July 20 2011 01:40 kzn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 01:38 Blasterion wrote:
Trolls are of no value in the world that I desire to live in Well, see, that's where you're wrong, unless you want to live in a world where everyone agrees with each other on everything, even when everyone is wrong. But that's an argument for another thread.
I think he meant the type of trolls that make inappropriate 4chan image memes.
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Even if she is overreacting, I don't think that's a bad thing. It'll probably discourage future trolls from posting useless comments simply because the potential to get sued is there.
I wish these laws existed in the rest of the world.
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Seemed a bit overzealous with the Twitter arguing but the move to call the cops on the people photoshoping and verbally abusing Eve is understandable.
If you guys had an underage sister or daughter whose picture showed up on the internet, gets nude photoshopped and mocked by lots of people, would you also say "oh it's no big deal. I'm totally okay with it and I'm going to do exactly nothing." ?
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On July 20 2011 01:53 teamsolid wrote:
Even if she is overreacting, I don't think that's a bad thing. It'll probably discourage future trolls from posting useless comments simply because the potential to get sued is there.
I wish these laws existed in the rest of the world.
Suing in my opinion will increase the amount of trolls and hate, you can still hide behind proxies and fake korean ID's
so the only right action is to ignore them, even if it is a cultural thing
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On July 20 2011 01:53 teamsolid wrote:
Even if she is overreacting, I don't think that's a bad thing. It'll probably discourage future trolls from posting useless comments simply because the potential to get sued is there.
I wish these laws existed in the rest of the world.
Except she's not just going after trolls, she's going after everyone who says anything remotely negative.
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On July 19 2011 23:54 kzn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 23:30 Baarn wrote:
Oh there's plenty of cases in Korea where all the victim did was claim defamation and won. You think this even remotely qualifies as support? I dont give a flying fuck what kind of retarded laws they have in Korea. A he-said/she-said defamation case cannot justifiably be handled in any way other than to throw the case out entirely. Anything else lands you rapidly on a slippery slope to censorship of all kinds. The laws in Korea have far more support than your fallacy you ended your thought with. Yes. Apologized for. Not caused jail time, fines, or any kind of criminal punishment whatsoever. There is a big difference. So you are still going on that this is all a joke. Show nested quote +You keep pulling more stuff out of your ass cause you have no facts just more opinions. Your opinion about anything means jack squat to me since I don't see you as a person who has good judgement or reason based on your statements so far in this thread. See your problem is your willingness to spout with no facts or understanding on what's going on. It's all about you and your interpretation. You are an exemplary lesson in irony.
No I'm trying to figure out what you are trying to argue here without if a happens then b will happen then lead to c. It's rubbish. Are you some psychic that I don't know about?
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On July 20 2011 01:58 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 23:54 kzn wrote:On July 19 2011 23:30 Baarn wrote:
Oh there's plenty of cases in Korea where all the victim did was claim defamation and won. You think this even remotely qualifies as support? I dont give a flying fuck what kind of retarded laws they have in Korea. A he-said/she-said defamation case cannot justifiably be handled in any way other than to throw the case out entirely. Anything else lands you rapidly on a slippery slope to censorship of all kinds. The laws in Korea have far more support than your fallacy you ended your thought with. Plenty of jokes have been pulled and apologized for on tv. Yes. Apologized for. Not caused jail time, fines, or any kind of criminal punishment whatsoever. There is a big difference. So you are still going on that this is all a joke. You keep pulling more stuff out of your ass cause you have no facts just more opinions. Your opinion about anything means jack squat to me since I don't see you as a person who has good judgement or reason based on your statements so far in this thread. See your problem is your willingness to spout with no facts or understanding on what's going on. It's all about you and your interpretation. You are an exemplary lesson in irony. No I'm trying to figure out what you are trying to argue here without if a happens then b will happen then lead to c. It's rubbish. Are you some psychic that I don't know about?
Hes one of those cool Dad which will tell his daughter to man up after she found out her school friends put fake nude pics of her on 4chan.
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this is why i love being in a country with freedom of speech.(although you could make arguments thats its not complete freedom of speech)
so that i do not have to worry that much about going to jail for something i said? This troubles me that in korea you can get sent to jail for something you say which is rather preposterous.
Now harassment is an entirely different subject but that usually takes at least fifty threatening messages before it is even looked into (made up number but it is quite a few though).
feel sorry for the slayers fan though, just offering some constructive criticism :/.
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On July 20 2011 01:54 vnlegend wrote:
Seemed a bit overzealous with the Twitter arguing but the move to call the cops on the people photoshoping and verbally abusing Eve is understandable.
If you guys had an underage sister or daughter whose picture showed up on the internet, gets nude photoshopped and mocked by lots of people, would you also say "oh it's no big deal. I'm totally okay with it and I'm going to do exactly nothing." ?
The point being, this doesn't happen to every odd random girl on the internet. She wants to become famous by joining the team, then let her deal with the issues that come with being famous.
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On July 20 2011 02:01 levarien11111 wrote:
this is why i love being in a country with freedom of speech.(although you could make arguments thats its not complete freedom of speech)
so that i do not have to worry that much about going to jail for something i said? This troubles me that in korea you can get sent to jail for something you say which is rather preposterous.
Now harassment is an entirely different subject but that usually takes at least fifty threatening messages before it is even looked into (made up number but it is quite a few though).
feel sorry for the slayers fan though, just offering some constructive criticism :/.
Freedom of speech is BS, there have to be constraints to how people communicate with each others.
You would be wrong to think you can get away after verbally (sexual or not) abusing someone in real life.
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On July 20 2011 01:50 Meowth wrote:
that many people still do not recognize as crime.
suing is a bad thing?
Overreacting to crime?
I Don't Think So.
If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen....
Yes those guys who photoshopped her head on a nude body are jerks. Yes those idiots who spammed her facebook are retards.
But when you are famous, that shit happens.
And it might be a Korean problem now, falling under Korean law, so a crime.
But it's not a crime in a lot of other countries. You can be sure that when people in Korea are actually arrested because of some internet trolling, there will be trolls all over the globe photoshopping Eve and Jessica, just because they feel like supporting their fellow Korean trolls. Remember the Mohammed cartoons? Kill one head of the snake and 3 new appear ... why would you ever start that snowball effect.
instead of focussing on the positive things.... Eve didn't do much yet but already has a fanclub on TL and a lot of fans worldwide, how great is that!
But noooo lets focus on the haters!
Go watch the Idra interview with Carmac. When Idra loses and BM's reddit twitter etc all explode, but he doesn't care, negative publicity is publicity too.
Every female celebrity has nude photoshops and has to cope with false rumors and unfair gossip. I don't think you can ever stop that kind of stuff. When you are famous some people will love you and other people will start to attack and flame you.
About the suicides, yes that is really sad.
But I do think pride is the real issue here. People who commit suicide because they are a single parent, are flamed on the internet, or didn't make it to the best University, that goes far deeper than this.
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On July 20 2011 01:33 kzn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 01:31 Spritescaper wrote:
If she succeeds, internet trolls get their comeuppance. If she doesn't, successful troll is successful. I don't see the problem here. *shrug*
Overreacting? Please. Just not too long ago, people were rising up with pitchforks and torches against a random writer badmouthing e-Sports. I guess that's par for the course though; people will go to any stupid lengths to defend something they care about on the internet, but as soon as they're not emotionally involved in some way, the issue becomes "SO I HERD THE INTERNET IS SRS BUSINESS GAIZ" Except nobody thought that the author of the article deserved to go to jail, or even pay a fine. Stop fogging the issue with this bullshit.
Yeah, because we're just that rational, right? You give our side of the netizen world far too much credit. The institution for those sorts of legal actions doesn't exist in our country, so obviously it wouldn't factor into how we think. That didn't stop us from hurling insults and pressuring said writer to get fired or quit her job.
Point being, people will naturally overreact if they feel threatened or compelled to defend something they have an emotional attachment to. In that sense, yes, Jessica did overreact, but I personally believe it's understandable. What I take issue with is how people are so surprised by her actions like she's this huge outlier when my experiences state overreaction is the norm on the internet.
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EPT
