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On July 20 2011 01:13 denzelz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 01:11 branflakes14 wrote:On July 20 2011 01:10 Wrongspeedy wrote:On July 20 2011 01:08 denzelz wrote:On July 20 2011 00:59 PrimeTimey wrote:On July 20 2011 00:54 PHC wrote:On July 20 2011 00:44 PrimeTimey wrote:O MY GOD HE MADE FUN OF ME.. NOOOOOO  I might go kill myself She had low self esteem? What can we do about it create laws where people can't have freedom of speech on the internet? lol get real Cyber-bullying is illegal. In the U.S., all 50 states have laws that prohibit online stalking, harassment, and bullying. Why should you be allowed to harass another person on the Internet without consequence? I can't believe people are actually defending those who viciously attack others on the Internet. Don't bother with PrimeTimey, he has already told more than one person who commmited suicide to toughen up. Seriously not worth the time. Don't worry, I don't think she took offense at him saying it. The criteria of who is allowed to post on TL has seriously declined over the years. Users who made comments like these would have been instant banned a year ago.
It's absolutely disgusting. The fact that I even bothered trying to ask these users to look at in another culture's perspective and to try understand it from their point of view was a complete waste of time. They are too busy subtly injecting their points on freedom of speech and their personal views on "internet" and "bullying" when it has little relevance to what the OP is about.
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On July 20 2011 01:09 SeaSwift wrote:Thing is, there are different kinds of trolling. I see a lot of people who jokingly reference cheeky memes, are sarcastic etc, that is one kind of trolling. I see people who ignite flame wars for fun, that is one kind of trolling. Unfortunately, I also see people who make hurtful, personal comments and then hide behind a transparent shroud of "I was just trolling", or the equivalent. Trolls can be really funny. Once it's taken too far, trolls can just be plain old douchebags.
Unfortunately, now the word "troll" is applied to everyone who has said something that you disagree with or has offended you (or someone else) in any bit. There are far better ways to deal with douchebags other than going to the police.
This isn't about Korean culture, either. She entered an international scene, be prepared to play by someone elses rules. Unless the people who made the pics are also Korean, but wouldn't that mean that it's not Korean culture? Culture is dictated by the actions of its people, after all.
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This is just my point of view:
A lot of Asiatics are very unspoken people. They are not used to say what they think, because they have been raised to be politically correct all the time. Now with the internet globalizing takes place. They need to get used to get hammered sometimes by ignorant people. It is something they should be above.
They need to get used to the fact that there are people who won't be polite and troll and flame them, but if we all are going to take the words literally of the posts online we make it ourselve really difficult.
Look at Sundance he was butchered by the critics online during the fails at MLG (there were difficulties with the streaming). But he shows that everyone is wrong and gained the respect afterwards (MLG Columbus). The same thing is the case with Idra who have been criticized a lot about his mental aspects, but he doesn't become emotional and he tries to change the bad habbits he has (It takes shit load of time but still).
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On July 20 2011 01:16 Xiphiass wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 01:07 DarkDolphin wrote:On July 20 2011 01:01 Xiphiass wrote:On July 20 2011 00:56 DarkDolphin wrote:On July 20 2011 00:54 Tatari wrote:
Good god... way to take the troll bait. Not only that, she went in guns blazing to use tweets as harassment evidence. She's treating this too much like a black-or-white argument, either people are for her decision or against it.
Or does she not know what trolls are? ._. Trolls need to be punish, ignoring is not enough. Because trolling is illegal. Yyyyep. oh so you scared you won't be able to troll , harrass others without punishment anymore? hahaha [: I'm sorry, but can you explain yourself? Without any ad hominem, in what law does it say that trolling is illegal? If you don't have anything to say, don't say anything. Crazy, I know.
Well from reading this thread it's apparently illegal in Korea. Hell, even stating facts that a person doesn't like seems illegal. Wikipedia says "The UN Human Rights Commission expressed concerns about South Korea's deterioration of online free speech."
So yeah, I guess we're arguing about free speech in Korea as much as trolls trolling Slayers.
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On July 20 2011 01:18 PrimeTimey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 01:10 Wrongspeedy wrote:On July 20 2011 01:08 denzelz wrote:On July 20 2011 00:59 PrimeTimey wrote:On July 20 2011 00:54 PHC wrote:On July 20 2011 00:44 PrimeTimey wrote:O MY GOD HE MADE FUN OF ME.. NOOOOOO I might go kill myself She had low self esteem? What can we do about it create laws where people can't have freedom of speech on the internet? lol get real Cyber-bullying is illegal. In the U.S., all 50 states have laws that prohibit online stalking, harassment, and bullying. Why should you be allowed to harass another person on the Internet without consequence? I can't believe people are actually defending those who viciously attack others on the Internet. Don't bother with PrimeTimey, he has already told more than one person who commmited suicide to toughen up. Seriously not worth the time. You better not make fun of me! I might go commit suicide dude!
Your ignorance and refusal to acknowledge another culture's perspective as well as your complete lack of empathy is absolutely disgusting.
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On July 20 2011 01:18 Saicam wrote:
This is what happens when a professional team signs a player on looks and for attention, not skill, you don't see pro football or baseball teams recruit people based on looks. Why did slayers recruit a gold leaguer on the team? She obviously won't play in tournaments for the team. This is pretty unprofessional and this if things keep going this way sc2 won't become as huge as everyone wants it to be
David Beckham said hi from LA
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On July 20 2011 01:18 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 01:15 kzn wrote:On July 20 2011 01:12 HydraLF wrote:On July 20 2011 01:04 kzn wrote:On July 20 2011 01:02 Wrongspeedy wrote:
Thanks for the "What If's" to my "What If". Some of you guys are acting like you have to pull your dick out and slap someone across the face with it for it to be sexual harassment. Seriously how can you not understand, they bullied her online using pictures of sexual intercourse (which she was actually not apart of *SHOOCK*). I'm not going to define what bullying is, but if you don't think that photo shopping can be a form of harassment or bullying..... *facepalm*
Seriously, some teenage girl just committed suicide because kids wouldn't stop texting her and leaving comments on her FaceBook. And she was not famous. Of course pshopping can be part of bullying or harassment, but not if its posted to an imageboard that isn't visited by the "target". In all fairness as long as the poster doesn't know that the "target" visits the board there's no way it can be bullying or harassment, unless they incite others to post it to sites where the "target" does visit. The act of creation cannot in itself ever be part of bullying or harassment. You think she won't find out about the image? Maybe she did, or jessica wouldn't be mad, the starcraft community isn't that huge, also just to make it worse, starcraft is actually quite popular in korea so that she will get recognised on the street because of these images. Its exactly like posting naked pictures of someone in your school all around the town and say they didn't know he will see it. Except its not even remotely like that because you'd have to be retarded not to know they'd see it if they go to your school, while you'd probably have to be retarded to think Leah Jackson actually browses 4chan all that much, if at all. You cannot hold the creator of something accountable for its distribution, unless he incited the distribution. Pretty sure posting something on 4chan should count as distribution just as well as anything else would. I don't think it makes sense to draw a distinction. So it would be fine if they posted a photoshopped picture on 4chan, but then if Eve found out about it, it's sexual harassment? I'm confused by your stance.
You've misunderstood it.
Its fine if they post it to 4chan. Its not fine if they post it to 4chan and say "post this to Eve's facebook guys" or whatever the equivalent is in Korea. Its not fine to post it to the facebook oneself. But if you post it on 4chan and say nothing or "hoho look what ps can do" or osmething equally innocuous, and _someone else_ takes it and posts it to the facebook, you cannot be reasonably held accountable for that.
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On July 20 2011 01:19 PHC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 01:13 denzelz wrote:On July 20 2011 01:11 branflakes14 wrote:On July 20 2011 01:10 Wrongspeedy wrote:On July 20 2011 01:08 denzelz wrote:On July 20 2011 00:59 PrimeTimey wrote:On July 20 2011 00:54 PHC wrote:On July 20 2011 00:44 PrimeTimey wrote:O MY GOD HE MADE FUN OF ME.. NOOOOOO I might go kill myself She had low self esteem? What can we do about it create laws where people can't have freedom of speech on the internet? lol get real Cyber-bullying is illegal. In the U.S., all 50 states have laws that prohibit online stalking, harassment, and bullying. Why should you be allowed to harass another person on the Internet without consequence? I can't believe people are actually defending those who viciously attack others on the Internet. Don't bother with PrimeTimey, he has already told more than one person who commmited suicide to toughen up. Seriously not worth the time. Don't worry, I don't think she took offense at him saying it. The criteria of who is allowed to post on TL has seriously declined over the years. Users who made comments like these would have been instant banned a year ago. It's absolutely disgusting. The fact that I even bothered trying to ask these users to look at in another culture's perspective and to try understand it from their point of view was a complete waste of time. They are too busy subtly injecting their points on freedom of speech and their personal views on "internet" and "bullying" when it has little relevance to what the OP is about.
The OP is about whether or not Slayers_Jessica is over-reacting in her response and in going after anyone who has said anything negative. Obviously people will post based on their own cultural knowledge, sure it may be different in Korea but they're posting their opinions about whether she's overreacting based on what they know, this thread would basically have to have like 10 posts otherwise.
On July 20 2011 01:23 kzn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 01:18 Mordiford wrote:On July 20 2011 01:15 kzn wrote:On July 20 2011 01:12 HydraLF wrote:On July 20 2011 01:04 kzn wrote:On July 20 2011 01:02 Wrongspeedy wrote:
Thanks for the "What If's" to my "What If". Some of you guys are acting like you have to pull your dick out and slap someone across the face with it for it to be sexual harassment. Seriously how can you not understand, they bullied her online using pictures of sexual intercourse (which she was actually not apart of *SHOOCK*). I'm not going to define what bullying is, but if you don't think that photo shopping can be a form of harassment or bullying..... *facepalm*
Seriously, some teenage girl just committed suicide because kids wouldn't stop texting her and leaving comments on her FaceBook. And she was not famous. Of course pshopping can be part of bullying or harassment, but not if its posted to an imageboard that isn't visited by the "target". In all fairness as long as the poster doesn't know that the "target" visits the board there's no way it can be bullying or harassment, unless they incite others to post it to sites where the "target" does visit. The act of creation cannot in itself ever be part of bullying or harassment. You think she won't find out about the image? Maybe she did, or jessica wouldn't be mad, the starcraft community isn't that huge, also just to make it worse, starcraft is actually quite popular in korea so that she will get recognised on the street because of these images. Its exactly like posting naked pictures of someone in your school all around the town and say they didn't know he will see it. Except its not even remotely like that because you'd have to be retarded not to know they'd see it if they go to your school, while you'd probably have to be retarded to think Leah Jackson actually browses 4chan all that much, if at all. You cannot hold the creator of something accountable for its distribution, unless he incited the distribution. Pretty sure posting something on 4chan should count as distribution just as well as anything else would. I don't think it makes sense to draw a distinction. So it would be fine if they posted a photoshopped picture on 4chan, but then if Eve found out about it, it's sexual harassment? I'm confused by your stance. You've misunderstood it. Its fine if they post it to 4chan. Its not fine if they post it to 4chan and say "post this to Eve's facebook guys" or whatever the equivalent is in Korea. Its not fine to post it to the facebook oneself. But if you post it on 4chan and say nothing or "hoho look what ps can do" or osmething equally innocuous, and _someone else_ takes it and posts it to the facebook, you cannot be reasonably held accountable for that.
I'm sorry but I feel like that's absolutely ridiculous. So it's fine if I say, "Oh look, I can photoshop my penis into this person's mouth, lol!" but that's not as bad if I post it on a site which they are unlikely to check? If someone else posts it somewhere where they can see it, I'm not responsible because I didn't show it to them? If you're talking about harassment this makes little sense, unless you're drawing a comparison between emailing it to her and what-not, the internet is an entirely public forum, your word will get around.
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On July 20 2011 01:21 Xiphiass wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 01:09 SeaSwift wrote:On July 20 2011 01:01 Xiphiass wrote:
Because trolling is illegal. Thing is, there are different kinds of trolling. I see a lot of people who jokingly reference cheeky memes, are sarcastic etc, that is one kind of trolling. I see people who ignite flame wars for fun, that is one kind of trolling. Unfortunately, I also see people who make hurtful, personal comments and then hide behind a transparent shroud of "I was just trolling", or the equivalent. Trolls can be really funny. Once it's taken too far, trolls can just be plain old douchebags. Unfortunately, now the word "troll" is applied to everyone who has said something that you disagree with or has offended you (or someone else) in any bit. There are far better ways to deal with douchebags other than going to the police. This isn't about Korean culture, either. She entered an international scene, be prepared to play by someone elses rules. Unless the people who made the pics are also Korean, but wouldn't that mean that it's not Korean culture? Culture is dictated by the actions of its people, after all.
If you read the OP, it says DC Inside - she's charging Korean netizens. Has nothing to do with the international scene.
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On July 20 2011 01:22 PHC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 01:18 PrimeTimey wrote:On July 20 2011 01:10 Wrongspeedy wrote:On July 20 2011 01:08 denzelz wrote:On July 20 2011 00:59 PrimeTimey wrote:On July 20 2011 00:54 PHC wrote:On July 20 2011 00:44 PrimeTimey wrote:O MY GOD HE MADE FUN OF ME.. NOOOOOO I might go kill myself She had low self esteem? What can we do about it create laws where people can't have freedom of speech on the internet? lol get real Cyber-bullying is illegal. In the U.S., all 50 states have laws that prohibit online stalking, harassment, and bullying. Why should you be allowed to harass another person on the Internet without consequence? I can't believe people are actually defending those who viciously attack others on the Internet. Don't bother with PrimeTimey, he has already told more than one person who commmited suicide to toughen up. Seriously not worth the time. You better not make fun of me! I might go commit suicide dude! Your ignorance and refusal to acknowledge another culture's perspective as well as your complete lack of empathy is absolutely disgusting.
Now there's a loaded sentence.
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 20 2011 01:13 denzelz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 01:11 branflakes14 wrote:On July 20 2011 01:10 Wrongspeedy wrote:On July 20 2011 01:08 denzelz wrote:On July 20 2011 00:59 PrimeTimey wrote:On July 20 2011 00:54 PHC wrote:On July 20 2011 00:44 PrimeTimey wrote:O MY GOD HE MADE FUN OF ME.. NOOOOOO I might go kill myself She had low self esteem? What can we do about it create laws where people can't have freedom of speech on the internet? lol get real Cyber-bullying is illegal. In the U.S., all 50 states have laws that prohibit online stalking, harassment, and bullying. Why should you be allowed to harass another person on the Internet without consequence? I can't believe people are actually defending those who viciously attack others on the Internet. Don't bother with PrimeTimey, he has already told more than one person who commited suicide to toughen up. Seriously not worth the time. Don't worry, I don't think she took offense at him saying it. The criteria of who is allowed to post on TL has seriously declined over the years. Users who made comments like these would have been instant banned a year ago.
I'm sure there will be some modding of this thread, but its really new and there are a lot of pages, I'm actually surprised its not worse by now, or it hasn't been closed. I think there probably has been some good discussion in this thread about some *related* topics. A lot of it is just people saying well ,"what if..." is this harassment? Which is just silly and doesn't explain anything.
One thing is clear to me, images were made with the intent to embarrass someone, those were intentionally made public through the internet on a Starcraft2 related site. Photo shopping with the intent to embarrass someone and making the photos public is bullying or harassment or whatever you want to call it. And now I'm going to try and never look back at this thread again ^_^.
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I think some of her reaction is justified. Saying cruel and derogatory things about people/posting crude pictures, etc is not ok, especially when it's widespread.
Reacting to criticism/disappointment/dislike from people is ridiculous. Not everyone likes you irl either. You are not perfect and should learn to accept that some people will point out your flaws and disapprove of things you do.
She should take like... 3-5 of the most serious offenders to the police. I am sure the most serious problems amount to harassment and by taking some to the police that might help stop the legitimate problems they encounter. Sorry, but a 16 year old girl making comments about how good your English is isn't a legit problem. If she takes every little thing like that the police, she just makes a complete fool of herself. I hope she stops to make an intelligent choices about what she chooses to pursue legally instead of whining every time her feelings are hurt.
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On July 20 2011 01:19 PHC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 01:13 denzelz wrote:On July 20 2011 01:11 branflakes14 wrote:On July 20 2011 01:10 Wrongspeedy wrote:On July 20 2011 01:08 denzelz wrote:On July 20 2011 00:59 PrimeTimey wrote:On July 20 2011 00:54 PHC wrote:On July 20 2011 00:44 PrimeTimey wrote:O MY GOD HE MADE FUN OF ME.. NOOOOOO I might go kill myself She had low self esteem? What can we do about it create laws where people can't have freedom of speech on the internet? lol get real Cyber-bullying is illegal. In the U.S., all 50 states have laws that prohibit online stalking, harassment, and bullying. Why should you be allowed to harass another person on the Internet without consequence? I can't believe people are actually defending those who viciously attack others on the Internet. Don't bother with PrimeTimey, he has already told more than one person who commmited suicide to toughen up. Seriously not worth the time. Don't worry, I don't think she took offense at him saying it. The criteria of who is allowed to post on TL has seriously declined over the years. Users who made comments like these would have been instant banned a year ago. It's absolutely disgusting. The fact that I even bothered trying to ask these users to look at in another culture's perspective and to try understand it from their point of view was a complete waste of time. They are too busy subtly injecting their points on freedom of speech and their personal views on "internet" and "bullying" when it has little relevance to what the OP is about.
What you have consistently failed to grasp is that once the discussion evolved into a broader discussion on whether or not the libel laws in Korea make any sense at all, "culture" stopped having anything at all to do with it.
Cultural relativism is utter bullshit, and should be treated as such.
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On July 20 2011 01:19 denzelz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 01:16 Xiphiass wrote:On July 20 2011 01:07 DarkDolphin wrote:On July 20 2011 01:01 Xiphiass wrote:On July 20 2011 00:56 DarkDolphin wrote:On July 20 2011 00:54 Tatari wrote:
Good god... way to take the troll bait. Not only that, she went in guns blazing to use tweets as harassment evidence. She's treating this too much like a black-or-white argument, either people are for her decision or against it.
Or does she not know what trolls are? ._. Trolls need to be punish, ignoring is not enough. Because trolling is illegal. Yyyyep. oh so you scared you won't be able to troll , harrass others without punishment anymore? hahaha [: I'm sorry, but can you explain yourself? Without any ad hominem, in what law does it say that trolling is illegal? If you don't have anything to say, don't say anything. Crazy, I know. "Many states have enacted "cyberstalking" or "cyberharassment" laws or have laws that explicitly include electronic forms of communication within more traditional stalking or harassment laws. In addition, recent concerns about protecting minors from online bullying or harassment have led states to enact "cyberbullying" laws. This chart identifies only state laws that include specific references to electronic communication. However, other state laws may still apply to those who harass, threaten or bully others online, although specific language may make the laws easier to enforce. This chart classifies the various state laws addressing these three different types of online behaviors, as described below." http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=13495
That's not what trolling is. It's not calling someone a retard over the internet, nor it's stalking somebody. Trolling isn't something that is punishable by any law.
Even so, please look at the definition of cyberharassment. That is hardly what we're dealing with here.
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On July 20 2011 01:25 RedJustice wrote:
I think some of her reaction is justified. Saying cruel and derogatory things about people/posting crude pictures, etc is not ok, especially when it's widespread.
Reacting to criticism/disappointment/dislike from people is ridiculous. Not everyone likes you irl either. You are not perfect and should learn to accept that some people will point out your flaws and disapprove of things you do.
She should take like... 3-5 of the most serious offenders to the police. I am sure the most serious problems amount to harassment and by taking some to the police that might help stop the legitimate problems they encounter. Sorry, but a 16 year old girl making comments about how good your English is isn't a legit problem. If she takes every little thing like that the police, she just makes a complete fool of herself. I hope she stops to make an intelligent choices about what she chooses to pursue legally instead of whining every time her feelings are hurt.
If we can't even make fun of people on the internet, the internet will become boring as shit. It's sounds like I'm an asshole, but everyone knows this is true.
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Eve is like a daughter to Jessica, She's a member of the team, Why wouldn't Jessica defend her? If someone did that to your family would you not take the trolls to the police? I would protect those close to me with everything I got. Anyone who tries to hurt my friends and family will be met with as much oblivion as I can muster and I know that. So what's wrong with her trying to defend her friends and family?
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On July 20 2011 01:22 PHC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 01:18 PrimeTimey wrote:On July 20 2011 01:10 Wrongspeedy wrote:On July 20 2011 01:08 denzelz wrote:On July 20 2011 00:59 PrimeTimey wrote:On July 20 2011 00:54 PHC wrote:On July 20 2011 00:44 PrimeTimey wrote:O MY GOD HE MADE FUN OF ME.. NOOOOOO I might go kill myself She had low self esteem? What can we do about it create laws where people can't have freedom of speech on the internet? lol get real Cyber-bullying is illegal. In the U.S., all 50 states have laws that prohibit online stalking, harassment, and bullying. Why should you be allowed to harass another person on the Internet without consequence? I can't believe people are actually defending those who viciously attack others on the Internet. Don't bother with PrimeTimey, he has already told more than one person who commmited suicide to toughen up. Seriously not worth the time. You better not make fun of me! I might go commit suicide dude! Your ignorance and refusal to acknowledge another culture's perspective as well as your complete lack of empathy is absolutely disgusting.
Once again, you are making fun of me.. better hope I dont.
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If she succeeds, internet trolls get their comeuppance. If she doesn't, successful troll is successful. I don't see the problem here. *shrug*
Overreacting? Please. Just not too long ago, people were rising up with pitchforks and torches against a random writer badmouthing e-Sports. I guess that's par for the course though; people will go to any stupid lengths to defend something they care about on the internet, but as soon as they're not emotionally involved in some way, the issue becomes "SO I HERD THE INTERNET IS SRS BUSINESS GAIZ"
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On July 20 2011 01:30 Blasterion wrote:
Eve is like a daughter to Jessica, She's a member of the team, Why wouldn't Jessica defend her? If someone did that to your family would you not take the trolls to the police? I would protect those close to me with everything I got. Anyone who tries to hurt my friends and family will be met with as much oblivion as I can muster and I know that. So what's wrong with her trying to defend her friends and family?
Defend against what?
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EPT
