• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:38
CEST 21:38
KST 04:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)8[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th156Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0
StarCraft 2
General
Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners RSL S6 finale at Blizzcon High level ptr replays? where can I find them? StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? [BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Does Workplace Frustration D…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9517 users

The New Faces of Their Races - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 11 12 Next All
mikyaJ
Profile Joined April 2011
1834 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 21:22:07
July 05 2011 21:21 GMT
#81
BTW, Puzzle's APM was actually 667 apm, more than 10 actions per second. Because that 500 was recorded off of BST. Blizzard Standard Time.
MKP||TSL
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
July 05 2011 21:22 GMT
#82
On July 06 2011 06:16 lunchforthesky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2011 06:01 Olinim wrote:
On July 06 2011 05:53 IcedBacon wrote:
...LosirA?

his vT is just too bad to ever be a top player IMO.


He's already a top player. Most of his vs T loses have been to SC and MMA, who are both extremely good vs Z.


Feels like he loses to just about everyone ZvT.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=players&id=688&part=games&league=standard&vs=T
TheRPGAddict
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1403 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 21:25:18
July 05 2011 21:23 GMT
#83
I hope you are still including Losira in the Zerg category. I think that is what your first paragraph intended to do but I am not 100% sure. If not, shame on you.

Edit: I am really looking forward to seeing Puzzle play. That guy is so gosu. Also one of the fastest players in the game.
mrRoflpwn
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2618 Posts
July 05 2011 21:25 GMT
#84
Don't you dare say that MC is not the best protoss in the world, because he IS the best protoss. Until some other protoss player wins a GSL title he is the best protoss- so dont say that Alicia or Sage are going to be even close to him for a while.
Everything else id have to pretty much agree with- especially since MVP did not make it past his group this GSL season- tsk tsk...
Long live the Boss Toss!
Hondelul
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
1999 Posts
July 05 2011 21:26 GMT
#85
On July 06 2011 05:53 IcedBacon wrote:
...LosirA?

You should not throw a single name out there.
drgonzhere made a great post and put many effort in it. If some think there are other players to mention they should at least write a few lines why they consider them. Recent result, their weaknesses and strengh etc.

I would not consider Thorzain a top T at the moment, he had good results but in big tournaments beside TSL he didn´t really shine yet. I´m sure after a few month in Korea you can put him at the top (hope so), the same with Naniwa.
HuK I would put up there, but fighting through the GSL against MANY top players will be show his strenght. DH showed his potential but he was a bit lucky with the bracket, really (REALLY) don´t want to talk him down but he himself said in his interview
Naniwa knocked both you and MC into the lower bracket. In the lower bracket, you defeated MC 3-1 and made it to the Grand Finals, where you exacted revenge on Naniwa. Are you the PvP Master? To what do you attribute your success? Top 3 control?

Huk: No, definitely not. I got lucky in a lot of games and had a few BO wins, but also came back in a lot of situations I shouldn't have with some good control or special tactics. Hard work.

Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 21:27:46
July 05 2011 21:26 GMT
#86
Can't wait to see more of Puzzle. Going into beastmode vs Sheth, peaking at 550APM (Blizzard apm) with blink stalkers was absolute nuts
lunchforthesky
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom967 Posts
July 05 2011 21:27 GMT
#87
On July 06 2011 06:22 Wuster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2011 06:16 lunchforthesky wrote:
On July 06 2011 06:01 Olinim wrote:
On July 06 2011 05:53 IcedBacon wrote:
...LosirA?

his vT is just too bad to ever be a top player IMO.


He's already a top player. Most of his vs T loses have been to SC and MMA, who are both extremely good vs Z.


Feels like he loses to just about everyone ZvT.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=players&id=688&part=games&league=standard&vs=T


So, since March when he won Code A (I don't think there's any worth in anything before that) he's lost in ZvT versus Polt, MKP, MMA, SC and Bomber. None of those are terrible losses they are all amongst the very, very best Terran's.

If you look at his international TLPD, you'll see he has no trouble beating average Terran's so his ZvT is hardly awful it's just weaker, which is not too suprising given he has the second best ZvZ and ZvP in the world.
mikyaJ
Profile Joined April 2011
1834 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 21:35:10
July 05 2011 21:33 GMT
#88
Yes but to be considered a top player you must be able to beat top players...
He's good at ZvZ, ZvP, but his ZvT is not that of a top Zerg.

edit: no he's the third best ZvZ, Zenio exists, and he's 15-6 against arguably a stronger line of Zergs. Plus, 4 of those losses come from NesTea.
MKP||TSL
phyre112
Profile Joined August 2009
United States3090 Posts
July 05 2011 21:35 GMT
#89
On July 06 2011 06:05 SafeAsCheese wrote:
I don't see how you can include DRG yet exclude Bomber, who has better stats in almost every matchup


Because the Terrans that bomber has to compete with (polt, sc, etc) are much better than the zergs that DRG has to compete with.

Losira needs to fix his ZvT before we can talk about him as a boss zerg. He's as dominating in vP and vZ as Nestea is, but in IM's first GSTL match this year, he got eaten ALIVE by sC. DRG on the other hand needs to step up his late game. He's a fantastic mid game and early game player, but in comparison to those two, his late game is a bit "lacking". That's what is holding him back from being considered at a Nestea/Top Zerg level. ST_Curious, July, and Slayers_Min have all had impressive runs as zerg. They could still do with some improvement, but they're comparable to the Zenex players mentioned. Also, Leenock has been beasting it up in Code A this season. A return to form for him could put him in contention here, and is also going to make fOu (along with sC, and asd/gumiho supporting) an impressive team.

As far as Toss, imo HuK and Nani are higher level than sage and puzzle, just from the play we've seen out of them. Maybe after more exposure we can see differently, but those two are definitely competitive for the second place spot with alicia right now.

Terran is just a shitstorm. It says volumes about the dominance of terran that we don't even see bomber in the top Five players right now (MVP, sc, polt, MKP, MMA, THEN puma/bomber/thestc)
Elem
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden4717 Posts
July 05 2011 21:39 GMT
#90
As much as I love DRG, he isn't better than IdrA.
#freeshauni
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
July 05 2011 21:42 GMT
#91
On July 06 2011 06:39 Elem wrote:
As much as I love DRG, he isn't better than IdrA.

Why in the world would you make that claim?
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
drgonzhere
Profile Joined November 2010
United States447 Posts
July 05 2011 21:43 GMT
#92
On July 06 2011 06:05 SafeAsCheese wrote:
I don't see how you can include DRG yet exclude Bomber, who has better stats in almost every matchup


I mention bomber as one of the established great terrans along with MKP and MVP. Bomber has been known to be one of the best terrans in the world since January, I don't think he is so up and coming anymore.
Dictator for Life of the PuMa Fanclub/ DRG, PuMA, Sage, Puzzle, MMA Fighting!
rpgalon
Profile Joined April 2011
Brazil1069 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 21:50:56
July 05 2011 21:44 GMT
#93
On July 06 2011 06:16 mikyaJ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2011 04:51 Olinim wrote:
On July 06 2011 04:49 Mr.Brightside wrote:
Interesting read, i have been thinking a lot about this lately since MC and MVP have not been performing at a level that people would expect of them.

MC in the past month
1st in Stars war tournament
3rd at homestory and columbus.

It's a testament to MC's absolute dominance at his peak when that's considered not doing well

Meh, beating up Foreigners is trivial. That's like Wilt Chamberlain's 100 Point game. Trivial. MC at complete dominance won Copenhagen, DHI, and was the highest placing Korean along with BoxeR. However MC got knocked out by the winner, BoxeR didn't.


you have to consider that MC was traveling arround the world, and he was playing lan tournaments while playing on-line tournaments, he didn't had time to train efficiently, he didn't had time to prepare for matches and everybody knows that traveling is very tiresome.
Its not easy to win a tournament in china and in the next week go to sweden.
MC plays so many tournaments that he never has time to relax and practice, but still he is always trying to please the crowd, I have high respect for him.
badog
Elem
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden4717 Posts
July 05 2011 21:46 GMT
#94
On July 06 2011 06:42 Tachion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2011 06:39 Elem wrote:
As much as I love DRG, he isn't better than IdrA.

Why in the world would you make that claim?
Because while DRG is intensively skilled he has no results outside of some baller Team League kills. You need some sorts of results to claim that you are such a good Zerg that you are ''second best on the planet''.
#freeshauni
Denzil
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom4193 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 21:49:42
July 05 2011 21:48 GMT
#95
On July 06 2011 04:48 hypno_toad wrote:
I agree that MVP isn't the best anymore...But MC and Nestea are still the best of their races hands down


Would you say that MKP is the best for Terran right now? I know he's come second a lot but you can't deny how consistant a player he is.

@Tachion If we're going to call DRG the second best Zerg then we need to call MMA the best Terran. Team league kills don't mean anything, you need tournaments to put under your belt of which Idra has quite a few compared to DRG's team league kills.
Anna: So Sen how will you prepare for your revenge v MC? Sen: With a smile.
Soluhwin
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1287 Posts
July 05 2011 21:48 GMT
#96
Why is (T)LosirA's little icon thingy terran?
I put the sexy in dyslexia.
mikyaJ
Profile Joined April 2011
1834 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 21:50:43
July 05 2011 21:49 GMT
#97
On July 06 2011 06:44 rpgalon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2011 06:16 mikyaJ wrote:
On July 06 2011 04:51 Olinim wrote:
On July 06 2011 04:49 Mr.Brightside wrote:
Interesting read, i have been thinking a lot about this lately since MC and MVP have not been performing at a level that people would expect of them.

MC in the past month
1st in Stars war tournament
3rd at homestory and columbus.

It's a testament to MC's absolute dominance at his peak when that's considered not doing well

Meh, beating up Foreigners is trivial. That's like Wilt Chamberlain's 100 Point game. Trivial. MC at complete dominance won Copenhagen, DHI, and was the highest placing Korean along with BoxeR. However MC got knocked out by the winner, BoxeR didn't.


you have to consider that MC was traveling arround the world, and he was playing lan tournaments while playing on-line tournaments, he didn't had time to train efficiently, he didn't had time to prepare for matches and everybody knows that traveling is very tiresome.
Its not easy to win a tournament in china and in the next week go to sweden.

Well his point was that MC is not really performing in GSL, and is still doing well in foreign tournaments. And I said he was doing better in Foreign tournaments earlier when he was still doing well in the GSL. Also typo, I meant he was the highest placing Korean along with BoxeR in TSL
MKP||TSL
ampson
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2355 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 21:49:44
July 05 2011 21:49 GMT
#98
Faces of the races:
+ Show Spoiler +
Terran [image loading]
Zerg [image loading]
Protoss [image loading]

This isn't that hard.
dooraven
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia2820 Posts
July 05 2011 21:50 GMT
#99
On July 06 2011 06:46 Elem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2011 06:42 Tachion wrote:
On July 06 2011 06:39 Elem wrote:
As much as I love DRG, he isn't better than IdrA.

Why in the world would you make that claim?
Because while DRG is intensively skilled he has no results outside of some baller Team League kills. You need some sorts of results to claim that you are such a good Zerg that you are ''second best on the planet''.


He won 3-2 in the LG Cinema 3D tourney against sC. He has the results considering he doesn't participate in much.
Go go Alliance.
Klaus1986
Profile Joined April 2011
United States113 Posts
July 05 2011 21:50 GMT
#100
They need some hair stylists in Korea. Stat.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 11 12 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
19:00
Group Stage - Day 2
Jaystar vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs TerrOr
XuanXuan vs Bonyth
Mihu vs Dewalt
Messiah vs Jaystar
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
TerrOr vs Dewalt
LiquipediaDiscussion
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
15:00
Season Finals: Group Stage 2
uThermal2514
Serral1860
RotterdaM1132
TaKeTV 544
mouzHeroMarine446
IndyStarCraft 254
BRAT_OK 147
SteadfastSC138
SHIN 76
LamboSC258
sc2solar33
Shameless29
Classic15
SpiritSC214
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
uThermal 2514
Serral 1860
RotterdaM 1132
mouzHeroMarine 446
IndyStarCraft 254
BRAT_OK 147
SteadfastSC 138
SHIN 76
ProTech73
LamboSC2 58
sc2solar 33
Classic 15
SpiritSC2 14
Railgan 1
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 15411
Calm 2873
Mini 187
ZZZero.O 107
ggaemo 82
Sea.KH 53
Dewaltoss 43
Soulkey 42
Rock 17
Shine 16
[ Show more ]
Sacsri 8
Dota 2
XaKoH 533
Counter-Strike
fl0m8712
byalli645
zeus595
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King104
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor262
MindelVK6
Other Games
gofns24998
Grubby3940
B2W.Neo642
mouzStarbuck204
summit1g128
UpATreeSC40
Tefel16
OptimusSC23
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV1857
gamesdonequick872
BasetradeTV186
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Shiphtur170
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
15h 22m
OSC
1d 4h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
OSC
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
5 days
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
6 days
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - GSB
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.