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On July 05 2011 04:59 ShatterZer0 wrote:
First, the Pylon Splice:
(Insert picture of a dozen gateway unit being warped in just as their pylon is destroyed)
One thing many a play may not know about killing pylon power providers as units are being warped in is that the Protoss player losing their units is fully refunded for their loss.
In an awkward turn of fate, or even a purposeful ruse, Protoss players not only get refunded the full worth of their units being warped in, they also get their warp in cooldown set to 0 so that they can rewarp in the units they've just lost.
I didn't even know this... I always thought I was doing huge damage by killing the warp-in pylon.
Damnit.
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i dont know about the spectators but i want blizzard to allow the damn queue for zerglings to morph into banelings
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Lets see the OP suggests nerfing protoss and terran. I wonder what race he plays. I could see maybe getting rid of the WG cooldown reset. Whatever happened to the units taking extra damage while warping in? Was that removed or was that just a myth?
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I think Protoss should definitely lose the cooldown if the powering pylon dies. I mean, didn't you already start the warp in? There needs to be some disadvantage to warping in. If you want to give Protoss a buff somewhere else then fine. It makes sense on a mechanics level and it makes sense on a spectator level.
Some others have said this wouldn't add tension. You are so wrong. For a long time I thought killing the Pylon did waste the cooldown, so when I tried to focus down such a Pylon it was very tense. "Please die, please die, almost got it..." Now that I discovered it doesn't do much it's not nearly as fun. Sure it's nice to kill a proxy Pylon regardless, but there should be some risk to it.
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I always assumed you lost all the money from units lost in a pylon splice... that kinda pisses me off that they get the money AND cooldown reset. In fact, that's just plain stupid.
I understand the return of money in a destroyed building, as the units that are being queued haven't even started constuction. I do wish that any unit currently being constructed wouldn't give off refunds, but it's not that big of a deal to me.
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Not to completely poo poo all over this thread but there are just SOOOOOO many things that blizzard needs to fix. I can probably name off a couple hundred incudling Bnet2 and the game itself.
But to go with the op. I would completely disagree with the Pylon Splicing its completely fair that if those units don't get warped in they get refunded.
The factory change would be alright... but i dont know anyone at high levels who is queing up 5 thors when mutas are sniping it... And im 99% sure you are wrong that you were refunded in bw for Units but not upgrades if it were too die. And i'm pretty sure that same thing carried over to sc2. I've had my tech lab with stim upgrading and killed and didn't get refunded.
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On July 05 2011 05:08 Eleaven wrote:Nobody seems to enjoy TvP ZvP or PvP therefore just remove protoss. If you say "sc2" to somebody quite new, chances are they think of tvz, battle of micro and positioning and army trades.. rather than pvz or pvt where its "lol ill just wait for 20 mins till max" No idea how to make protoss more enjoyable to watch though  I random and always enjoy PvX(relaxing change of pace) but never enjoy XvP (frantic game of trying to do damage before its too late). Damn this is quite balance whiney actually =-\ but the concern is genuine, i dont really know anybody who enjoys watching the protoss matchups, to the point where people actively stop watching tournaments when a P is playing
Obvious Troll is obvious.
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I don't like the console feel of the menu UI and such with the abnormally large buttons
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On July 06 2011 04:34 TranceKuja wrote:
Lets see the OP suggests nerfing protoss and terran. I wonder what race he plays. I could see maybe getting rid of the WG cooldown reset. Whatever happened to the units taking extra damage while warping in? Was that removed or was that just a myth?
I plainly stated that I'm a protoss player... neither are nerfs, the Macro Factory is a hoax, as you would have learned if you READ the thing...
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I would love it if there were little things like the OP said that made the game more punishing and challenging to those who macro poorly.
I feel the game hinges too much on early game play, and poor macro isn't really as punishable as it should be. There are way too many games I play where I should lose because the opponent contains me as Zerg, or I lose BOTH my lair and hatchery and I'm revealed for the full minute I have no bases, and I make 4 mutas and make a comeback because the 1 base Terran all-in with banshees didn't know how to expand, and I think to myself "I should leave, but since I'm in Diamond, I'm pretty sure my opponent doesn't know how to expand or macro and I still have a chance"
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On July 05 2011 05:20 Percutio wrote:
I really don't agree with any of these points and I'm a long time BW spectator.
There are a lot of other nuances within the game that create tension and make BW amazing to watch. Unit and upgrade canceling is not one of those that is worth adding for spectating pleasure when compared to the impact on the players.
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I want the default to be random colors like in Brood War.
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TvZ is one of the moust boring machis....TvP also PvZ =great matchup but nerf toss colloss or Force fealds...
Dinamic pathing (smart pathing) ball vs ball = shoud be removed....to basic pathing...Or you should be able to turn OFF or ON... end 
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so basically, no refund on all queued/processing units when buildings die? thats just harsh.
its bad enough to delay reinforcement (purposely sniping pylon). just because its 100% refund does not mean it did 0 damage (think forcing hatch/cc/nexus cancel, its more than just 25% minerals). during the delay, you can re-position your army, kill much as you can then run, siege your tanks, etc.
there are other things to worry about:
high ground advantage (as spectator)
unit balling (as spectator)
replay share
and most importantly:
custom games, make them create-able with a name like in BW.
i'd like to make a game "1:1 ZvP Master Only" instead of joining a custom with a map i want and play against a bronze. only option atm is joining a channel.
the current system is blatantly retarded.
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This isn't a balance thread...
I agree with the Macro Factory and the Warp-In Refunds. Considering that most top level Protosses put down a path of pylons on their way to your base anyway, Pylon Sniping should be a more-used mechanic. Currently, sniping the pylon forces a retreat of about 10 seconds while he is forced to warp in from his NEXT closest pylon. It would also give Protosses an actual incentive to defend their forward pylons, not just pray they don't get sniped. Being punished for being greedy with one's attack should be a given.
PS. People who think it's harsh should play Brood War.
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I think it would be nuts to see formations available, like in Age of Empires. it would kinda make splash units suck, and micro too easy.
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100% agree with those first 2 points. If a guy has 5 thors queued up and his factory dies... he should pay the price.
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On July 06 2011 11:13 HuckOrris wrote:
I think it would be nuts to see formations available, like in Age of Empires. it would kinda make splash units suck, and micro too easy.
It would make micro too easy? Er, I guess it would in that you'd be able to micro more, but wouldn't that also create a higher skill ceiling at the same time for those who can micro very, very well? Formations certainly didn't hold Warcraft III back, in any case.
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On July 06 2011 04:34 TranceKuja wrote:
Lets see the OP suggests nerfing protoss and terran. I wonder what race he plays. I could see maybe getting rid of the WG cooldown reset. Whatever happened to the units taking extra damage while warping in? Was that removed or was that just a myth?
Its a myth, but I swear its real.
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I definitely agree with you that protoss player should lose every single bit of money that they have invested in warping in unit that died. It will make protoss player consider where they want to warp in more. But seriously, no penalty at all? That pretty rediculas....
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EPT
