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Howdy everyone,
Just wanted to hear your thoughts on a topic I have been quite curious about recentlty; is being a starcraft 2 pro-gamer a sustainable career?
What I mean by that is; will dedicating a large percentage of your time to play starcraft 2 professionally be a career that is sustainable throughout the later period of ones life?
I'm not sure how many pro-gamers also have a job/are studying whilst playing, so excuse my ignorance if this applies to the vast majority of pro-gamers. But for the ones that are playing Starcraft 2 full time, what will happen when they get older and are unable to play? Playing Starcraft 2 at a high level requires a high degree of finger movement, reflexes and decision making to name a few qualities. These are all responses that we become less efficient at as we age. Although the scene is still new so it is naive to expect a lot of older gamers, the oldest player I know of is White-Ra, and he is only 29 or so. He also has relatively low APM for a profesisonal player and relies on concise decision making to be good, as opposed to just being quick. And he talks about retiring in a year or two, depending on his results and fan support. I don't think it is wrong to say that most players will peak before their 30s.
So my question is effectively; what will these players do once they are past their prime and are into their 30s? In some ways they can be compared to professional athletes; there is a relatively low age cap that they can be before they peak and start to decline in performance. However unlike athletes, there seem to be less opportunities for things like coaching or commentating that many atheletes move on to after their competing career. Furthermore, they don't seem to earn enough money during their prime to sustain them for the rest of their lives. I'm not sure if they are taxed on their winnings (I assume it is different for different counteries) but having no 'employer' so to speak, I'm not sure it is even compulsory for them/their 'employer' to contribute to their superannuation that they can access when they retire.
And lastly, will the level of education these guys have obtained be enough to land them another unrelated job should they choose to exit the E-sports scene completely? Even if they do get a degree or do some sort of further study whilst playing sc2, will they have trained so much that their grades were less than desirable, and that they merely scraped through their course with the bare minimum grades? Will the lack of work experience as a consequence of being out of the workforce for 'X' number of years be detrimental to them getting a 'normal' job after their progaming? Will the E-sports scene have developed enough by then that there are plenty of coaching or commentating roles available that will support them for retirement? Or will they be on the dole after their career is up? I'm not sure how much pro-gamers earn at the moment, but even at the highest of levels I don't believe it is something to go crazy about.
Has anyone else thought about this concept? I would like to hear any thoughts/opinions that may be more educated than mine on what will happen to our progamers after their playing time is up.
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I am afraid job prospects following being a pro gamer are terrible. You cant really be putting pro gamer on a cv as it does very little, as for education becoming a pro gamer can be very rewarding but it is extremly time intensive, if you want to become a good one you really will have no chance for studying. However, their level of qualifications depends entirely on what time they left school or college. Also there are little or none retirement possibilities, I am afraid pro gamers prospects are bleak at best. Thats not to say it shouldnt be done, it is highly rewarding often and can be very fun.
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On July 04 2011 22:01 DrN0 wrote:
I am afraid job prospects following being a pro gamer are terrible. You cant really be putting pro gamer on a cv as it does very little, as for education becoming a pro gamer can be very rewarding but it is extremly time intensive, if you want to become a good one you really will have no chance for studying. However, their level of qualifications depends entirely on what time they left school or college. Also there are little or none retirement possibilities, I am afraid pro gamers prospects are bleak at best. Thats not to say it shouldnt be done, it is highly rewarding often and can be very fun.
I definitely disagree with the bolded statement. Being able to say that you put 12 hours a day of work in to something for however long with very little breaks definitely shows persistence, an amount of work ethic, and other things.
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On July 04 2011 22:05 HuskyMUDKIPZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 22:01 DrN0 wrote:
I am afraid job prospects following being a pro gamer are terrible. You cant really be putting pro gamer on a cv as it does very little, as for education becoming a pro gamer can be very rewarding but it is extremly time intensive, if you want to become a good one you really will have no chance for studying. However, their level of qualifications depends entirely on what time they left school or college. Also there are little or none retirement possibilities, I am afraid pro gamers prospects are bleak at best. Thats not to say it shouldnt be done, it is highly rewarding often and can be very fun. I definitely disagree with the bolded statement. Being able to say that you put 12 hours a day of work in to something for however long with very little breaks definitely shows persistence, an amount of work ethic, and other things.
That's 100% going to depend on the employer (or whoever will be reading the CVs). Such a person may just as well think "oh, he's been wasting his time playing videogames instead of doing something productive."
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Its not complicated, there's not a whole lot of money in pro gaming, relatively speaking. Only the very top few will ever be able to sustain a career after their "prime". Being a pro gamer will not be all that useful for any career (tech) switch later that does not involve e-sports or video games. This is an endeavor for those who have a passion for the game, much like minor league professional sports players, or any number of non-mainstream competitive games out there.
Also, don't buy into the myth that someone over 30 can't be a pro. The reason you don't see very many older pros is not because their reaction speed decreases, it's because they grow up and have additional responsibilities that rule out a risky/questionable career as a gamer. Although in some studies, it has been shown that reaction time decreases slightly with age, a pro who has more experience will almost always be at an advantage. After all, the reason pro sports players retire is not because their mind can't react fast enough, it's because their bodies give out - something that does not really factor into e-sports. Likewise nobody is surprised to see a master pianist or chess grandmaster over 30.
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I think progaming as a career is very, very risky! It goes without saying, that in the first place you need to have a lot of talent for the game and currently (for your status) being a very good player already. But competitive gaming is very hard: the only way u can REALLY start to make money is if you win a lot of major tourneys. and as u can c, most of the other progamers have a lot of trouble with that and theres no like"ultimate players" who keep winning all of them. There are just so many factors.
And besides that, What are you gonna do (like a poster here said before) after you get a little older/Starcarft 2 finishes and a new one comes out/ etc.? The retirement possiblities are pretty limited and im sad to admit, that if you go to a job application afterwards and the man there asks you "what you've been doing for the past couple of years" it still is perceived as a rather "not good thing" to say "i was a pro gamer". This has been discussed here a lot too....
On the other hand it pretty much depends on what you do too, really. I mean if your work afterwards will be something on the internet etc. etc. you pretty much have good possiblities to pick your work up after u stop being a pro gamer. Best of luck to you!
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You also have to consider that a lot of players may forego University in favor or practice, leaving them even less prepared for a career post-gaming.
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From what i have heard allot of progammers like Idra, make most their living from sponerships and advertising (on streams and such).
So i think the question really is, will E-sports gain a large enough fan base companies will be more willing to sponer players for larger amounts of money. That is how it is in other sports.
As for the matter of what will they do after the retier? I think options are seeming limited as they have spent many years not in a work force and being educated. And i dont think E-sports will grow to the point anytime soon that progameers will be putting that on their SCs. How ever i belive that many progamers will have more success than most sports people, as they not only have huge personal drives to achive but (not to be condisending to sports players) are equipt with big ass brain.
It all depends on growth and sponsors.
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On July 04 2011 22:09 Rannasha wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 22:05 HuskyMUDKIPZ wrote:On July 04 2011 22:01 DrN0 wrote:
I am afraid job prospects following being a pro gamer are terrible. You cant really be putting pro gamer on a cv as it does very little, as for education becoming a pro gamer can be very rewarding but it is extremly time intensive, if you want to become a good one you really will have no chance for studying. However, their level of qualifications depends entirely on what time they left school or college. Also there are little or none retirement possibilities, I am afraid pro gamers prospects are bleak at best. Thats not to say it shouldnt be done, it is highly rewarding often and can be very fun. I definitely disagree with the bolded statement. Being able to say that you put 12 hours a day of work in to something for however long with very little breaks definitely shows persistence, an amount of work ethic, and other things. That's 100% going to depend on the employer (or whoever will be reading the CVs). Such a person may just as well think "oh, he's been wasting his time playing videogames instead of doing something productive."
Yeah therein lies the problem; most people see video games as a hobby, not a profession. Whilst it does require a lot of dedication, it is hard to convince people that it should be considered a profession.
and @Hashmeister; aha I am just a rookie with no intention of playing sc2 professionally, I just brought this up because I thought it was interesting
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My opinion is deffinatly not. Unless you are a boxer or flash you won't make enough money to support yourself or your family when you get older. No offense but I don't see sc2 being a carreer any time soon and I think its a good thing
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Pro gaming is a terrible career choice, I wanted to be pro when I was a kid but once I got into college and realised how satisfying studying something is I could no longer see the appeal. I don't know what to think of pro gamers, are they nerdy guys who just couldn't be fucked to find a real job and get a degree, or are they serious athletes who are giving something back to the community. I think the first one is more accurate, then again I don't know these people on a personal level.
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On July 04 2011 22:11 Hashmeister wrote:
I think progaming as a career is very, very risky! It goes without saying, that in the first place you need to have a lot of talent for the game and currently (for your status) being a very good player already. But competitive gaming is very hard: the only way u can REALLY start to make money is if you win a lot of major tourneys. and as u can c, most of the other progamers have a lot of trouble with that and theres no like"ultimate players" who keep winning all of them. There are just so many factors.
And besides that, What are you gonna do (like a poster here said before) after you get a little older/Starcarft 2 finishes and a new one comes out/ etc.? The retirement possiblities are pretty limited and im sad to admit, that if you go to a job application afterwards and the man there asks you "what you've been doing for the past couple of years" it still is perceived as a rather "not good thing" to say "i was a pro gamer". This has been discussed here a lot too....
On the other hand it pretty much depends on what you do too, really. I mean if your work afterwards will be something on the internet etc. etc. you pretty much have good possiblities to pick your work up after u stop being a pro gamer. Best of luck to you!
Well actually this statement is slightly false. The main income of a progamer is usually not tournament winnings: It comes from sponsorship money, coaching, streaming and all sorts of other commitment (like bogging about products, commercials etc). However, you could argue that in order to really get your name out there in order to get a good contract you would need to win tournaments but this is also not the case; destiny being one example.
The problem with progaming and the reason I would never want to be one (not that I could) is what comes afterwards. A lot of people give up studies and jobs to get enough time to practice and even though this might work out while they are still earning money from playing they could end up in a horrible life after they stop playing being in mid/late twenties without education, a time when things like settling down and starting a family is more important.
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On July 04 2011 22:22 Jhax wrote:
Pro gaming is a terrible career choice, I wanted to be pro when I was a kid but once I got into college and realised how satisfying studying something is I could no longer see the appeal. I don't know what to think of pro gamers, are they nerdy guys who just couldn't be fucked to find a real job and get a degree, or are they serious athletes who are giving something back to the community. I think the first one is more accurate, then again I don't know these people on a personal level.
Or you know, they love gaming? Stupid post.
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On July 04 2011 22:09 Rannasha wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 22:05 HuskyMUDKIPZ wrote:On July 04 2011 22:01 DrN0 wrote:
I am afraid job prospects following being a pro gamer are terrible. You cant really be putting pro gamer on a cv as it does very little, as for education becoming a pro gamer can be very rewarding but it is extremly time intensive, if you want to become a good one you really will have no chance for studying. However, their level of qualifications depends entirely on what time they left school or college. Also there are little or none retirement possibilities, I am afraid pro gamers prospects are bleak at best. Thats not to say it shouldnt be done, it is highly rewarding often and can be very fun. I definitely disagree with the bolded statement. Being able to say that you put 12 hours a day of work in to something for however long with very little breaks definitely shows persistence, an amount of work ethic, and other things. That's 100% going to depend on the employer (or whoever will be reading the CVs). Such a person may just as well think "oh, he's been wasting his time playing videogames instead of doing something productive."
Who cares about random people reading the Curricula Vitae of progamers. Chances are they will be employed by the gaming industry or sponsors. Chances are there are potential employers among starcraft fans.
Everyone here on teamliquid.net should know it takes exceptional individuals to compete on the top level.
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On July 04 2011 22:28 Sleec wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 22:22 Jhax wrote:
Pro gaming is a terrible career choice, I wanted to be pro when I was a kid but once I got into college and realised how satisfying studying something is I could no longer see the appeal. I don't know what to think of pro gamers, are they nerdy guys who just couldn't be fucked to find a real job and get a degree, or are they serious athletes who are giving something back to the community. I think the first one is more accurate, then again I don't know these people on a personal level. Or you know, they love gaming? Stupid post.
A lot of people love gaming. I'm a little inclined to associate this reason with his first suggestion. Most people who enjoy gaming and have the skillset to go into progaming choose not to because they have better life prospects through another path.
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Depends on where you live. Earning 500 Euro's in Britain, or 500$ in America may not be a lot, but in places like Brazil, Peru, Eastern Europe, it's VERY good pay.
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pro gaming is a passionate career, not a suitable.
it's like pro any sport, tons of risk and only the best are rewarded
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Is it any more ridiculous than becoming being a beauty queen and then making a career switch to Governor of Alaska?
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You may consider playing other games after SC2. That will help your sustainability, since I'm sure there will be other competitive games being released. Hell, you may even count on Starcraft 3 in 10 years. :D It never hurts to have secondary skills, and with the pro scene being what it is, if you manage to get on a team and become sponsored, you'll have opportunities to network with large corporations.
I think if you're going to be mentioning this to a potential employer, you're going to have to dress it up a bit better than just "I was a pro gamer". I'd drop gamer from your descriptions and just say 'player', since gamer may not give off impression you want. Someone who doesn't know about the scene is going to bring it up (if they're worth anything at interviewing), and it's probably best to talk a little bit about the industry, and then tell them how you fit in as a player. For instance, you're usually being sponsored by large companies, playing in large tournaments with thousands of spectators, with plenty of money on the line.
Instead of trying to explain the mechanics of the game and all of the different strategies, I'd give an estimate of how much I 'needed' to train in order to remain competitive. Name dropping some of the sponsors for you and the tournaments should also catch the attention -- For example, people know of Intel worldwide, so if you happened to place 3rd, 2nd, or even take 1st at IEM, people will know it's not just some no-name community tournament. What employers are going to be able to relate to most in this scene are the business aspects and money. At least tell them about the money and the business, and it's hard to say it was a negative thing on your resume.
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On July 04 2011 22:31 Maenander wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 22:09 Rannasha wrote:On July 04 2011 22:05 HuskyMUDKIPZ wrote:On July 04 2011 22:01 DrN0 wrote:
I am afraid job prospects following being a pro gamer are terrible. You cant really be putting pro gamer on a cv as it does very little, as for education becoming a pro gamer can be very rewarding but it is extremly time intensive, if you want to become a good one you really will have no chance for studying. However, their level of qualifications depends entirely on what time they left school or college. Also there are little or none retirement possibilities, I am afraid pro gamers prospects are bleak at best. Thats not to say it shouldnt be done, it is highly rewarding often and can be very fun. I definitely disagree with the bolded statement. Being able to say that you put 12 hours a day of work in to something for however long with very little breaks definitely shows persistence, an amount of work ethic, and other things. That's 100% going to depend on the employer (or whoever will be reading the CVs). Such a person may just as well think "oh, he's been wasting his time playing videogames instead of doing something productive." Who cares about random people reading the Curricula Vitae of progamers. Chances are they will be employed by the gaming industry or sponsors. Chances are there are potential employers among starcraft fans. Everyone here on teamliquid.net should know it takes exceptional individuals to compete on the top level.
And what about those people who seek employment from somebody who doesn't appreciate progaming then? What if they want to enter a large law firm or investment bank. In fact, what if they simply wanted to be a vet or salesman? Is progaming likely to get you an interview after the application process? As big as the Starcraft or competitive gaming community is, the world is bigger, and at the end of the day, progaming restricts your later career prospects immensely. I would even say that your options in the game industry are limited. Does being an ex-progamer qualify you to make code, write opinion articles or be a manager? Many ex-progamers go on to be commentators but this market is quite full and will only get more so, and not to mention that games are restricted by their popularity lifespans.
IMHO, it is not the wisest career choice. Some people may say that progamers are passionate about the game but come on, heaps and heaps of people here and elsewhere are passionate about the game just as much. At the end of the day, it depends on your other prospects. Not to generalise, but if you are from a country with low average earnings and cost of living, then the monetary lure of international events might even be worth it. That's one of the reasons why there is some much footballing (not handegg) talent emerging out of South America and Africa and so few coming out of the English junior ranks. Progaming might be lucrative for some people and it might be unnecessarily risky for others.
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EPT
